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News & ArtsTuesday, May 5, 2009
Hetero / Religion Joe The Plumber's Imaginary Gay Friends
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, May 5, 2009 at 10:22 AM
Joe the Plumber speaking to Christianity Today yesterday...
People don't understand the dictionary—it's called queer. Queer means strange and unusual. It's not like a slur, like you would call a white person a honky or something like that. You know, God is pretty explicit in what we're supposed to do—what man and woman are for. Now, at the same time, we're supposed to love everybody and accept people, and preach against the sins. I've had some friends that are actually homosexual. And, I mean, they know where I stand, and they know that I wouldn't have them anywhere near my children. But at the same time, they're people, and they're going to do their thing.
So we can add Joe the Plumber to the long list of right-wing homophobes who have gay friends. But how long are we supposed to take their words for it? It's time for one of these right-wing bigots—Sarah Palin, Donny Osmond, Rick Warren, Pat Boone, et al—to actually produce one the gay friends they're always yammering on about. Because we've got some questions for their gay friends. For instance, what kind of self-loathing homosexuals would be friends with a man who wouldn't let them anywhere near his children? I would really like to get an interview with that guy. Or stage an intervention.
And a note to the media: stop taking their word for it. When Joe the Plumber or Rick the Pastor or Sarah the Imbecile or Donny the Douchebag says something that's clearly bigoted and then claims to have gay friends, he, she, or it is attempting to say, "See? I'm not really a bigot, despite what I just said. I can't be a bigot—I've got gay friends!" An anti-gay bigot who points to gay friends as proof that he, she, or it is not really bigoted should be required to produce those gay friends. It is irresponsible to relay a bigot's claims of gay friendship without independently verifying the existence of the bigot's gay friends. If I told a reporter from Christianity Today that some of my best friends were Pat Robertson—all of his personalities—you can bet that he'd ring up Rev. Robertson to confirm that before putting my claim in print.
1
Audible applause Dan, well said! Never thought of it like that, and you might be a first if you could ever find one of their "Friends".
~Tom, Vancouver BC
~Tom, Vancouver BC
2
I like "intervention". Any self-respecting gay person who wants to so much as be in the same room as Joe the Dickhead needs psychiatric help. Although I suppose there might be occasion -- at a conference of con artists, for instance.
3
Joe The Plumber says that he has HAD gay friends, not that he actually has them anymore. I doubt too many of them stick around for long.
4
I think another important question (as a father myself) is what kind of parent is friends with anyone they wouldnt allow around the kids.
5
"Some of my best friends are (fill in the name of the group you openly despise.)"
A commonly-uttered phrase meant to communicate that one's unreasonable hatred for an entire group of people does not necessarily translate to hatred for individual members of that group, provided they are the "good" kind who know their place and stay the hell away from your children.
A commonly-uttered phrase meant to communicate that one's unreasonable hatred for an entire group of people does not necessarily translate to hatred for individual members of that group, provided they are the "good" kind who know their place and stay the hell away from your children.
6
You realize, of course, that when they say "I have some homosexual friends" they're really saying "I have secret and anonymous homosexual partners."
Plumbing isn't just his day job.
Plumbing isn't just his day job.
7
I am pretty sure they actually mean acquaintances... as in they once worked with, talked to, or bought coffee from, a person they suspected to be a homosexual.
8
Lets just say...
I've had some friends that are actually Christian. And, I mean, they know where I stand, and they know that I wouldn't have them anywhere near my children.
I've had some friends that are actually Christian. And, I mean, they know where I stand, and they know that I wouldn't have them anywhere near my children.
11
Again 6 FTW! You're on F I R E today, UF!
Also, Joe the (non-licensed) Plumber did say, "they know where I stand." To me, that pretty much means the one gay person he knows (at least publicly) is polite enough to refrain from telling him to fuck himself to his face.
Also, Joe the (non-licensed) Plumber did say, "they know where I stand." To me, that pretty much means the one gay person he knows (at least publicly) is polite enough to refrain from telling him to fuck himself to his face.
12
I really don't believe Joe has ever had any homosexual friends. Actually, I can't believe Joe has had any one able to stand him long enough to be his friend. How the hell did that man ever convince someone to sleep with him?
14
Uh, I thought it was going to be a run of the mill "Gay marriage will destroy our society, not that I have anything against gays" comment.
But, he won't let them anywhere near his children? Wow. That's.... crazy. Literally.
But, he won't let them anywhere near his children? Wow. That's.... crazy. Literally.
15
@13: To force whatever gay porn he made in his past out into the open, a la Jeff Ganon/Guckert/MilitaryMuscleWhatever69.
I'm waiting with bated breath.
I'm waiting with bated breath.
17
I'm pretty sure the old "Some of my best friends are..." rhetoric works exactly opposite of its intended effect. In most -- all -- cases it does far more to reinforce how clueless you are than to prove you're not a bigot. So I don't really want the media to go out of their way to discourage these yokels from revealing the truth about themselves like this.
19
It sort of seems like the point is that Joe the Plumber wants to tell the lie. And that fact--that he wants you to think he has gay friends--is what is noteworthy. I don't think anyone actually expects JTP to have gay friends that he calls on the phone, invites over for dinner, or helps with a project in the yard on a Saturday afternoon. All we're supposed to take away from it is that at some point in his life Joe the Plumber met a homosexual, survived, and now wants you think that he considers that person a friend, in spite of all evidence to the contrary.
20
Remember that episode of Ellen where her friend wouldn't let her babysit? Joe the Plumber should have watched it. So sad.
22
@18 Apparently, Joe the Plumber does not understand the dictionary either. See "marriage" in the Merriam Webster:
Main Entry:
mar·riage Listen to the pronunciation of marriage
Pronunciation:
\ˈmer-ij, ˈma-rij
1 a (1): the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2): the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage b: the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock c: the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
23
I really don't understand the whole "wouldn't let them around my children" thing. I had a neighbor once who was terrified of my gay roomie being around her little girl. What about an adult man who wants to have sex with other adult men is endangering your little girl, crazy lady?
24
These people do exist. What about Giuliani's Friends/temporary roommates who didn't call him out for skipping their wedding. Some excuse about Christian upbringing means that he can throw them under the bus for political reasons.
My favorite part about the whole thing is that it seems like Rudy RSVP'd yes and then had is secretary call with an excuse. Classy.
My favorite part about the whole thing is that it seems like Rudy RSVP'd yes and then had is secretary call with an excuse. Classy.
25
In the case of Donny Osmond, I'm just surmising that somewhere along the line, in the 48 years he's been in show business, that he's run across a gay co-worker or two...I mean, Paul Lynde DID guest star on Donnie & Marie...
And, I'm guessing that among the 348 members of the NEXT Osmond generation, there has to be a couple that are bent...
And, I'm guessing that among the 348 members of the NEXT Osmond generation, there has to be a couple that are bent...
28
ah, just read about Marie Osmond and her lesbian daughter...Marie sounds vaguely supportive, but does a lot of hemming and hawing...she doesn't want to hurt doll sales.
30
Wow Dan is on B tch-mode today, when he's not going after Miss Cali he's off looking to chop off anyone's head who voices their opposition to gay marriage. Hey Mr Savage have you ever heard of Howard Koeppel and Mark Hsaio, you know, Giuliani's gay friends (the only sensible thing the idiot has going on for him), there are some homosexuals who actualy are more reasonable than you and don't go on demonizing their friends just because they believe that marriage should be reserved for one man and one woman.
31
By far the best part of this quote is "It's not like a slur, like you would call a white person a honky or something like that." That is his best example of a slur, people. The least offensive "slur" in the entire history of humanity.
35
@30, you might want to check with Giuliani's gay friends to see if they're still friends with him, after he snubbed their wedding. Giuliani's a tool -- and idiots like you are the screws he turns.
BTW, Joe -- "Jack" on "Will & Grace" doesn't count as a "friend".
BTW, Joe -- "Jack" on "Will & Grace" doesn't count as a "friend".
36
@30 Loveschild
Giuliani will live in the home of "friends", but not celebrate their relationship. This is what you call a good friend?
Do you really believe that he RSVP'd yes to their wedding and had a change of heart because of his christian values and not for the bad publicity his attendance would bring him?
Giuliani will live in the home of "friends", but not celebrate their relationship. This is what you call a good friend?
Do you really believe that he RSVP'd yes to their wedding and had a change of heart because of his christian values and not for the bad publicity his attendance would bring him?
37
I don't believe Palin and JTP have gay friends, but I'm not sure that's what's important here. Their claim to have gay friends shows that they see the direction this country is moving in and they are scared. Right-wing conservatives are always claiming that gay is in the same league with polygamy, pedophilia, and bestiality. Yet you never hear them say "Well, yes, I have friends who are into bestiality. I mean, I wouldn't let them dog-sit or anything, but dog-fuckers are people too, just doing their own thing." Clearly they realize that there is a huge gap between homosexuality and bestiality/pedophilia/etc. I would like to see a reporter find one of these people who has made such links and claimed to have gay friends and ask if that means they'd be open to being friends with a pedophile or a dog-fucker.
38
I'm straight and I demonize people who don't understand why marriage is a fundamental right under the laws and constructions of the United States, for anyone who chooses to participate in it (I also call the marrying kind a little off-kilter, but that's another story for another day). I also don't call them my friends, ever. Why would I want to be friends with someone who doesn't see the value in other people and works to deny them basic dignity?
39
This makes no sense to me. I would never be friends with anyone who viewed me as less of a person or citizen. Secondly, I wouldn't be allowed anywhere near their children? What kind of a friendship would that be? A dysfunctional one. I know that I have strong disagreements with my friends at times, but this is a deal breaker for me. If you can't accept me for who I am, and if you're going to treat me like a low-life scum, then you will never be anything to me. Simple as that. The more I think about this, the more it pisses me off.
40
What about an adult man who wants to have sex with other adult men is endangering your little girl, crazy lady?
By implying that should the little girl grow into a big girl who wants to have sex with other big girls that would be alright. It's about controlling her childs sexual identity.
By implying that should the little girl grow into a big girl who wants to have sex with other big girls that would be alright. It's about controlling her childs sexual identity.
41
I try not to demagogue against my friends in the public square. It seems rather tacky if you ask me. Of course, that could be my secular humanist values speaking.
42
Hey everybody, I just wanted to say that, although I am attached to a stupid, fucking cunt, I myself am not in fact a stupid, fucking cunt.
God, it feels good to get that off my chest!
God, it feels good to get that off my chest!
43
But what I really want to do is direct.
...and other odd phrases people find themselves saying when they cannot face an unbearable truth.
...and other odd phrases people find themselves saying when they cannot face an unbearable truth.
44
He's nowhere near any of the rest though. He's blatantly saying he wouldn't let a homosexual near his kids. When did Sarah Palin say that? And he's stressing that he's had gay friends. Maybe friendship to Joe is talking to someone once in a bar?
45
@30: could you ever be friends with someone who thought that public schools should be separate but equal? or that marriage should be between one man and one woman of the same race? Or who thought that Christians should not be able to marry?
Hell no. Because you have self respect. (and if you don't, I'm sorry.) The spineless fags who invited Giuliani to their wedding have no self respect, assuming they are still friends with him.
Hell no. Because you have self respect. (and if you don't, I'm sorry.) The spineless fags who invited Giuliani to their wedding have no self respect, assuming they are still friends with him.
46
The whole construction, "I have friends who are gay," is fatuous. Who the hell cares if you know homos who won't tell you to your face that you're an asshole? You're still an asshole, which you demonstrated when you opened your Goddamn mouth.
47
Obviously he does not have gay friends. He might know gay people and feel friendly toward them, and even interact pleasantly with them; but he is not their friend.
48
If only you'd start a series of articles/coverage that worked on attacking the idea that gay people must be pedophiles.
50
These people who try to raise their kids sheltered from homosexuals-- do they think that they will never learn, eventually, that they exist? Do they hopelessly pray that their kids will never learn about homosexuality? Do they shelter them because they think some kids are too young to learn about it? How disgusting.
And Joe the Plumber is famous for.. for what again? Oh, right, he's famous for (supposedly) representing straight-shooting, common-sense, get-with-the-program, responsibility-obsessed, bible-thumping, "I'm not a bigot but..." conservatism. What we are expected to buy into as the most American of Americans. Maybe if I ask a presidential candidate a question some day, I, too, can become the role model /celebrity of a crashing and burning social movement
And Joe the Plumber is famous for.. for what again? Oh, right, he's famous for (supposedly) representing straight-shooting, common-sense, get-with-the-program, responsibility-obsessed, bible-thumping, "I'm not a bigot but..." conservatism. What we are expected to buy into as the most American of Americans. Maybe if I ask a presidential candidate a question some day, I, too, can become the role model /celebrity of a crashing and burning social movement
51
The problem, as I see it, is that people like JTP mistakenly think they are more intelligent then the audience they are speaking to. Biggest mistake. When a JTP states, "I have gay friends....." what that translates to me is, "my wife has her hair done by a gay man, and because she spends 20 minutes every 6 weeks in his chair, getting her hair done, yukking it up, and when I go to pick her up, I always ask how he is doing, and he returns the pleasantries therefor, we MUST be friends." Which, to that end, JTP expects to get a collective nod of the head from his fellow conservatives.
Kind of like, when a rich, white person states, "I'm not a racist because, I hire a Mexican to mow my lawn, a Black person to clean my house and an Asian to do my laundry. Of course, I would never allow one of my children to fraternize with one of theirs, but because I am willing to pay them to work for my good, then I couldn't possibly be a racist. And, because I have to deal with them on some level, even if it is only to pay them their money, I'm a decent, good person who has many Mexicans, Blacks and Asians to count as my friends."
Kind of like, when a rich, white person states, "I'm not a racist because, I hire a Mexican to mow my lawn, a Black person to clean my house and an Asian to do my laundry. Of course, I would never allow one of my children to fraternize with one of theirs, but because I am willing to pay them to work for my good, then I couldn't possibly be a racist. And, because I have to deal with them on some level, even if it is only to pay them their money, I'm a decent, good person who has many Mexicans, Blacks and Asians to count as my friends."
52
@ 30.. I am a day late on this but so not a dollar short.
I feel disgusted that I even need to write this comment. Dan is right on pare here. Why anyone would chose to have friends that do not believe that all people are entitled to have the same blissful (crazy married life) marriage. We can not choose our family it’s our blood. But, let me tell you they know where I stand on marriage, abortion, and religion. I come from an up bring of Roman Catholic Christian; for that I am great full. But, I tell my family every election time or scandal that may arise, that when they vote, the way they vote, their telling me that I am not good enough to be part of this world. Oh again @ 30. If you are choosing to be friends with people who DO NOT believe that marriage is a secret commitment between TWO people that love each other; that’s your choice. But remember their character will play off into your character make you a bigot as well. To some it up MY MARRIAGE TO MY MAN SHOULD NOT AFFECT ANOTHER PERSON MARRIAGE. Unless your marriage is already going down the drain because of your own doing!!!!!
I feel disgusted that I even need to write this comment. Dan is right on pare here. Why anyone would chose to have friends that do not believe that all people are entitled to have the same blissful (crazy married life) marriage. We can not choose our family it’s our blood. But, let me tell you they know where I stand on marriage, abortion, and religion. I come from an up bring of Roman Catholic Christian; for that I am great full. But, I tell my family every election time or scandal that may arise, that when they vote, the way they vote, their telling me that I am not good enough to be part of this world. Oh again @ 30. If you are choosing to be friends with people who DO NOT believe that marriage is a secret commitment between TWO people that love each other; that’s your choice. But remember their character will play off into your character make you a bigot as well. To some it up MY MARRIAGE TO MY MAN SHOULD NOT AFFECT ANOTHER PERSON MARRIAGE. Unless your marriage is already going down the drain because of your own doing!!!!!
53
Um, hate to point this out, but even if they do have gay friends, even if they can prove it, it doesn't really change anything. I live in a country where like 90% of people around me think there's nothing wrong in throwing casual slurs aimed at Jews (also Afro-Americans, Chinese and really anyone who isn't blond and white-skinned). And of course a lot of them have Jewish friends. I once had a "friend" who told me, patronizingly, "You are not like the rest of them." Does this mean he wasn't a fucking racist just because he sincerely considered me his friend and even liked me, in a way? So no, I don't care if Sarah Palin, Joe the plumber and that stupid bitch who supports "opposite" marriage really have gay friends. It would make absolutely no difference.
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