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News & ArtsThursday, April 30, 2009
Hetero Every Child Deserves a Mother and a Father
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 3:23 PM
First, Miss California doesn't really look like she's enjoying herself at her presser, does she? Particularly when she's asked about her breast implants...
But Miss California came down on the side of the every-child-deserves-a-mother-and-a-father argument against gay marriage: "Unless we bring men and women together children will not have mothers and fathers." Because, um, if gay people can get married, uh, straight people will stop "coming together" and making babies. Because the only thing straight people find compelling about heterosexual sex—and the babies that sometimes result—is the wedding part. If you let gay people get married too then, er, straight people just aren't going to be interested in sex anymore—or marriage or kids—because, um, I'm not sure how that works exactly, Miss California, but I'll take your word for it, seeing as how you represent seven million Californians and you're straight and all. And this "every child deserves a mother and a father" post is for you:
A young girl who told police her father forced her to help as he cut up her mother's body with an electric saw said she could only look away when the head fell to the floor. The girl is the chief witness against James Hawkins, 31, a prison parolee charged with first-degree murder in the death of Charlene Gaither, 28... The girl, now in the custody of her mother's family, said her younger brothers did not witness the slaying nor see their mother's body. But, she said, she was forced to help clean up the bloody scene and drag the body to a freezer where it was stored temporarily."I told my dad I didn't want to do this anymore," she told police. "He says, 'You want to die, too?'"
Just think: if gay people were allowed to marry in Tennessee, why, James and Charlene's children might've been deprived of a mother and a father. Tragic.
1
The more attention you continue to feed to this vacuous whore no one else cares about, the more she lurches toward actually mattering...
2
Congratulations, Dan.
You've successfully argued point-for-point with a beauty contest winner. Meh...
Oh, and what a choice tidbit of childhood atrocity you serve up today.
In the larger scale of the gay-adoption cause, you're coming across less as a stalwart proponent and more of a fetishist for kiddie horrors.
You've successfully argued point-for-point with a beauty contest winner. Meh...
Oh, and what a choice tidbit of childhood atrocity you serve up today.
In the larger scale of the gay-adoption cause, you're coming across less as a stalwart proponent and more of a fetishist for kiddie horrors.
4
You know what, I don't care WHAT awful, stupid, patently false things some Christians have said to you at some time in the past, Dan.
This kind of true-crime nastiness has NO PLACE in the gay adoption argument. Sick, twisted, and in no way justified by anything anybody else has said to you.
This kind of true-crime nastiness has NO PLACE in the gay adoption argument. Sick, twisted, and in no way justified by anything anybody else has said to you.
6
those were the questions they chose to ask her? what was that? would you only date ex-gay men? get a hold of yourselves.
7
Dan
In future please limit yourself to happy stories that illustrate the goodness and kindness of gay parents.
In a world where conservatives are willing to outright lie and cheat to get their point across, the liberals should avoid taking any controversial position. Sure, they say we are communist baby killers but that is no reason to be rude.
Here is to a quiet, respectful bowing down to our oppressors. Maybe if we are really nice they won't put us in camps.
In future please limit yourself to happy stories that illustrate the goodness and kindness of gay parents.
In a world where conservatives are willing to outright lie and cheat to get their point across, the liberals should avoid taking any controversial position. Sure, they say we are communist baby killers but that is no reason to be rude.
Here is to a quiet, respectful bowing down to our oppressors. Maybe if we are really nice they won't put us in camps.
9
This straw man argument, that if gays can marry, straights will no longer come together and have children, drives me nuts. It is ridiculous on it's face.
10
i remember this stuff from high school debate... if your opponent was really bad you'd sometimes lose because you wouldn't treat them like a serious competitor -- worse still was mistaking an insult for an argument. to fall prey to either would make you look like you don't have substantive arguments either, or worse, just make you look like a bully.
if you must talk to her at all, treat her like a spokesperson. ask her real questions, and don't call her names or take cheaps shots to make fun of her. often, you actually have to exercise more tact with such an easy target.
if you must talk to her at all, treat her like a spokesperson. ask her real questions, and don't call her names or take cheaps shots to make fun of her. often, you actually have to exercise more tact with such an easy target.
11
As a straight woman with many gay, queer and lez friends I am downright fed up with the daily tragedies you post about. Sick, twisted, and offensive to friends and family of the GLBT community.
12
2 "fetishist for kiddie horrors" -BINGO!
Dan's fascination with these sort of vomit-inducing stories leaves me wondering what sick thoughts are inside his head. Only he (and maybe fellow gay extremist Perez Hilton also) could take something so wholesome, simple and mainstream as Miss Cali's message and link it to something so horrific. And shame on washington blade or whatever other extremist gay lobby group planted those phony journalist to try and sabotage this young woman's message. Keep it up the more people see how intolerant and hateful you are the more they will start to wise up to your attacks and prevent them from ruining peoples lives.
Dan's fascination with these sort of vomit-inducing stories leaves me wondering what sick thoughts are inside his head. Only he (and maybe fellow gay extremist Perez Hilton also) could take something so wholesome, simple and mainstream as Miss Cali's message and link it to something so horrific. And shame on washington blade or whatever other extremist gay lobby group planted those phony journalist to try and sabotage this young woman's message. Keep it up the more people see how intolerant and hateful you are the more they will start to wise up to your attacks and prevent them from ruining peoples lives.
13
So, by Miss CA's irrational thought process, most, if not all, so-called "straight, married couples" are actually deeply closeted gays and lesbians who desperately opt for straight marriage for the possibility of having a wedding ceremony, gifts and cake, and who, apparently, would quickly jump ship when the opportunity presented itself to marry someone of the same sex.
So, is Miss CA saying that the only real straight people are the single ones? Hmmm...it does explain some things...especially about the great sex.
...that must be some really good cake.
So, is Miss CA saying that the only real straight people are the single ones? Hmmm...it does explain some things...especially about the great sex.
...that must be some really good cake.
14
My favorite thing about this vapid dipshit is her insistance on being biblically correct after treating her "body as temple" to a big pair of fake titties while pridefully parading around half naked for the world to lust after her.
15
What's really sick, is that the victim probably thought that letting the father move back in was a good thing - since, after all, children need both a father and a mother in a household.
That argument keeps getting used over and over again - not only by the anti same-sex marriage crowd, but as a weapon against single parents, or to justify why a person 'should' stay in an abusive situation.
Until that phrase is no longer trotted out as the shining example of the one-true-way that all families should be, there is nothing wrong with pointing out that it "ain't necessarily so."
If you don't want to read about these things - then don't. But ignoring them doesn't make them go away.
Pointing out these instances, terrible though they are, makes it harder for those proponents of "there should be a father and a mother in the life of every child" to claim that having one of each is somehow magically 'better' or provides some proof against harm coming to that child.
That argument keeps getting used over and over again - not only by the anti same-sex marriage crowd, but as a weapon against single parents, or to justify why a person 'should' stay in an abusive situation.
Until that phrase is no longer trotted out as the shining example of the one-true-way that all families should be, there is nothing wrong with pointing out that it "ain't necessarily so."
If you don't want to read about these things - then don't. But ignoring them doesn't make them go away.
Pointing out these instances, terrible though they are, makes it harder for those proponents of "there should be a father and a mother in the life of every child" to claim that having one of each is somehow magically 'better' or provides some proof against harm coming to that child.
16
The point of "Every Child Deserves A Mother And Father" post is the fact that fundie dipshits keep insisting that ANY Straight couple would be better parents than ANY Gay person/couple. What Dan is pointing out is that this is patently false. Sort of like efnord @ #4, was pointing out to you slower folks. I'm sorry most of you don't get that.
17
@12
"Loves child," do you have a fetish for all things gay or, simply, all things gay plus Dan? Or, do you just get off on misery?
When it comes to commenting on posts about LGBTQ, you're a bit OCD and more than a little dark and twisted.
Seriously, the constant, obsessive hate can't be healthy for you or anyone exposed to it.
"Loves child," do you have a fetish for all things gay or, simply, all things gay plus Dan? Or, do you just get off on misery?
When it comes to commenting on posts about LGBTQ, you're a bit OCD and more than a little dark and twisted.
Seriously, the constant, obsessive hate can't be healthy for you or anyone exposed to it.
18
I feel like Miss CA, like many who make the "with gay marriage on the table straight marriage will cease to exist" argument, may have some same sex feelings. Especially when you see the earlier interview with Rex Wockner where she talks about how she was never given the option not to be with a man. As a straight female I would never, ever phrase it like that nor do I find the idea of marrying another woman personally appealing. I think someone's got more than just body issues...
19
Does anybody have any concrete evidence that Loveschild is actually a black woman? If it is a black woman, then she is a disgrace to her race. I would also suspect her defensiveness to postings of christians' or heterosexuals' misdeeds strikes too close to home for comfort.
Can you imagine what would happen if one of Loveschild's children even remotely showed signs of being gay?! I would fear for that child.
Can you imagine what would happen if one of Loveschild's children even remotely showed signs of being gay?! I would fear for that child.
20
@19: Loveschild and her ilk are a disgrace to the human race. Black, white or polka dotted she is an embarrassment to us all.
21
Dan, you are showing yourself to be the douche more and more. That you find thrills and delight in these horror stories shows more of a pathology of yours than proving any point.
22
The real reason that I hate these posts are because they refute my belief that children need a mother and a father instead of two mothers or two fathers. That talking point is the only argument I have against gay marriage, and it drives me nuts when dan brings up "facts" and "real-life occurrences" that so easily prove my argument wrong.
25
I do look forward to the parodies though; she is pretty fucking stupid, it will be like shooting fish in a barrel.
26
Miss California will grow up to marry a man (as opposed to a woman, that is) because that's how she was raised?
It's not because she's... straight?
So there it is, the reason they are terrified of legal same-sex marriage: they really do believe it'll make everyone gay.
It's not because she's... straight?
So there it is, the reason they are terrified of legal same-sex marriage: they really do believe it'll make everyone gay.
27
Or maybe they're afraid that the gay marriages will show them up by having better cake, decor, and bridesmaid's dresses.
28
Actually, I think she handled the questions very well. I don't agree with her position, but I think some of the questions were rude and inappropriate. After all, she's a beauty contest winner; why do we care about her politics? She says this is not about politics but same-sex marriage is a political issue. The reporters should be asking her about hair-care products and diet secrets.
29
The only thing that could be at the heart of this, "If gay people marry, then straight people won't get married and have children." argument is that the people making it have strong, repressed homosexual tendencies, and they feel the temptation to act on their gay feelings will be just too much if it's accepted by the mainstream.
30
God I hope Miss CA has strong repressed homosexula tendencies. Not that it would help my life in any way; just the thought of it is hot. I imagine a really dikey pierced lip chick finally breaking her down.
33
I'm a lesbian, I've read your column for years, and I think you are a smart and influential man.
I also understand this is your blog and you will say what you please. But I cannot, for the life of me, understand the connection between Carrie Prejean and the horrific scene you described about a very helpless little girl.
I appreciate what you do to help me win my equal rights, but I can't support this. In fact I'm positive such rhetoric only hurts the argument.
When we criticize people with influential voices (such as Ms. California) for speaking insensitively, we have to be even more vigilant about how we use our own voice in return.
I also understand this is your blog and you will say what you please. But I cannot, for the life of me, understand the connection between Carrie Prejean and the horrific scene you described about a very helpless little girl.
I appreciate what you do to help me win my equal rights, but I can't support this. In fact I'm positive such rhetoric only hurts the argument.
When we criticize people with influential voices (such as Ms. California) for speaking insensitively, we have to be even more vigilant about how we use our own voice in return.
34
The connection is that tragedies like this are direct proof that Ms. Prejean's (and her comrades') arguments are false. They are arguing that gays shouldn't have children because the most important thing is for a child to have a "male" and "female" role model, rather than "a loving family with two adults." News stories like these, sensationalist as they are, horrifying as they are, do two things: 1) They show readers that no, having a "mother" and a "father" is not some sort of magic key to a healthy childhood, and 2) They show that many of these tragedies are a result of these all-important gender roles being taken too far: spousal abuse, selling one's daughter, etc. A "strong father figure" imposing himself, violently, on the "submissive mother" or daughter. It shows the consequences to championing these gender roles that seem to be every social conservative's wet dream.
It's unpleasant, and it's not the only way to make these points. But I do think that social conservatives have been able to enjoy having a "wholesome family" image for too long, and their ideals on family are anything but wholesome. Spousal abuse (from emotional abuse all the way up to bizarre stories like this) is inspired by the social conservatives' brand of "healthy gender roles," where men are supposed to be aggressive and women submissive. So, directly or indirectly, when conservatives say that gays shouldn't marry or adopt because they can't provide a child with these gender roles, they are championing families like this one over a loving gay family. And Dan is calling them on it.
It's unpleasant, and it's not the only way to make these points. But I do think that social conservatives have been able to enjoy having a "wholesome family" image for too long, and their ideals on family are anything but wholesome. Spousal abuse (from emotional abuse all the way up to bizarre stories like this) is inspired by the social conservatives' brand of "healthy gender roles," where men are supposed to be aggressive and women submissive. So, directly or indirectly, when conservatives say that gays shouldn't marry or adopt because they can't provide a child with these gender roles, they are championing families like this one over a loving gay family. And Dan is calling them on it.
35
That tid-bit on the slaying of Hawkins' wife is absurdly far fetched and in no way justifiable towards your claim against Miss California's views on same sex marriage. I do not agree with her views, but what were you trying to convey through that?
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