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Tuesday, April 28, 2009

Re: Re: That's... So Civilized...

Posted by on Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 5:58 PM

I said "hardly ever," Brendan, and not, you know, "never". But here's one for you: I'm riding my bike out to West Seattle and I'm somewhere south of Safeco Field and just west of the Alaskan Way Viaduct. I stop my bike because one of my tennis shoe is untied—I don't own a pair of those snappy shoes popular with the lyrca set—and so I stop to tie my shoe. I see something out of the corner of my eye and realize that I've stopped smack in the middle of a hetero four-way. Behind me one straight couple is doing the stand-up heteronasty right up against a support column for the viaduct (is that safe?); in front of me another straight couple is doing the heteronasty—woman on top—on a cardboard box. I saw them, they saw me see them, they did not stop to apologize or offer me a mint or anything.

So I feel your pain, Brendan, I really do. And on behalf of all homosexuals everywhere, I apologize for the actions of the man in the can. But I'll bet you dollars to donut holes that the man in the can was straight-identified—not that that makes it okay. But heteros have to accept some responsibility for all those toilet wankers out there. You people created the dominant culture, one that made normal, natural homosexual desire taboo, and the culture your people created has warped the lives of innumerable homos. There are men out there who take what fleeting pleasures they can in toilets and saunas and parks because they don't feel they can ever come out, even today, and straight people are the authors of that tragedy, not gay people.

Furtive sex in public—that was the only intimacy allowed gay people before the gay and lesbian civil rights movement began, Brendan, so the gay movement can take credit for all the gay men who aren't having sex in public restrooms, terrorizing innocent theater editors with their semis, or putting small yappy dogs to uses that nature did not intend. And your fellow heterosexuals in the religious right, Brendan, are working hard to return us to a time when gay people could not live openly. It's your fellow heterosexuals, Brendan, who want to see more toilet sex, not less.

And as a homo, Brendan, I've got it worse when some dude in a toilet or a sauna starts waggling his dick at me. I can't react with righteous anger... because I don't want the guy to think I'm going to bash him or something. But I don't want to be to nonchalant about it, because I don't want the guy to think I'm delighted. So I usually mumble and hustle out the door as quickly as I can and resolve to pee at home.

And speaking of peeing at home: when you stopped in the toilet that day in the park... you were less than three blocks from your place and less than a block from my house. You could've held it... but you chose not to. You elected to slip into a notoriously cruisy men's room less than a block from your final destination, a house with two toilets, so no waiting.

Is there something you'd like to tell us, Brendan?

 

Comments (43) RSS

Oldest First Unregistered On Registered On Add a comment
1
Wait..before the GLBT civil rights movement, all sex had to be furtive and public? No one could afford a motel? No one had an apartment?
Posted by give me a break on April 28, 2009 at 6:12 PM
2
"you people" Thanks Dan...
Posted by Not one of THEM on April 28, 2009 at 6:14 PM
3
Why can't you do the same thing a woman does if a guy waggles his wee-wee at her? "Oh isn't that cuuuute...looks just like a penis, only smaller."
Posted by Geni on April 28, 2009 at 6:14 PM
4
I'M FUCKING GAY EVERYBODY LOOK AT ME!

DID I MENTION 10 TIMES I'M GAY?
Posted by we know, dan you sound like a broken record on April 28, 2009 at 6:17 PM
5
tl;dr: Live bum sex!


I used to have an apartment on First Hill. My bedroom window (my only window) looked out to the underside of a one-story parking structure.


One late night, I heard a commotion. Opening my blinds, I noticed two naked homeless men wrestling, yelling insults to each other. At first I thought, "Awesome, homo-hobo-wrestling match!"


Then one of them gave up and went back to the dirty mattress they'd dragged down there. On it, nude, was a homeless woman. The naked man and the woman started going at it, the other naked man masturbating.


I did not call the cops. I figured they weren't hurting anybody, so I did nothing. Until they started fighting over who was next.


This went on for over an hour. They'd take turns fucking this woman, then fight over who was next, then they'd quietly fuck her again. She seemed to enjoy it.


Finally it was too much. I called the police, who came in a few moments later with their flashlights and spotlights and busted the trio. They made them get dressed and clean up the place.


Sadly, they were back a few nights later. And a few nights after that. I moved from that apartment hating the three, but kind of curious of the odd love triangle they had.


I hope they're still there sometimes.


The end of my favorite hetero people fucking in public story.

Posted by Matt Fuckin' Hickey on April 28, 2009 at 6:21 PM
6
you made that up.
Posted by i couldn't even get past the first paragraph because of it. on April 28, 2009 at 6:28 PM
7
Er, it's not clear how "can't live openly" translates into "must have sex IN PUBLIC". Wouldn't it translate into "has sex in private"? Come on--people need to take a little personal responsibility...no one is forcing them to have sex in a park rather than an apartment/hotel room/etc.
Posted by sara on April 28, 2009 at 6:30 PM
8
I think the point here is that sex in public, whether hetero or homo, is (usually) not pleasant for the person who stumbles upon it. Which is not to say that it can't be hot for the person engaging in it. Nonetheless, it should be illegal, the law should be enforced (unlike in Denmark, etc) and some mild form of punishment should be meted out to offenders. The point is to incentivize people--gay or straight--to at least try to be discreet when they're boning in public. Otherwise, there'll be people--a lot of times ugly old people--humping away where you'll have to watch. And you don't want to see that. Besides, its the thrill of getting caught that is part of what makes it interesting, isn't it?
Posted by Mr Me on April 28, 2009 at 6:49 PM
9
Yeah, come down to the CD, there's dirty hetero cracksex going on all the time.

I saw some lady that looked like Anna Nicole's cousin Shelley gobbling two guys in sequence while they passed a pipe back and forth, darting away like frightened deer when I yelled "KNOCK IT OFF, FUCKERS" at them.
Posted by Baconcat on April 28, 2009 at 6:52 PM
10
Why don't we just outlaw sex altogether? We've got in-vitro now, so it's not like coitus is really necessary for procreation anymore, right?

Then EVERYONE would be happy: prudes wouldn't have to have their sensitive eyes offended, fundies wouldn't have to have their sensitive morals offended, gays wouldn't have to inadvertently see straights doin' it and vica verse, children would no longer risk permanent traumatization at the sight of human sexual intercourse.

I mean, it's all win-win, right?
Posted by COMTE on April 28, 2009 at 6:57 PM
11
@8 agreed.
At the Cap.Hill Block Party last summer I was shoving my way through/being shoved through a crowd and saw 2 20-ish year old girls trying to do some guy against a chain link fence.
I heard him say "but I have to work this weekend" as one girl pulled his dick out.

Not good with subtlety, I yelled "I saw your penis " over my shoulder and kept going.
I'm all for fun but that was just gross.It was still daylight. In a huge crowd. YUCK.
Posted by julie russell on April 28, 2009 at 6:59 PM
12
@7

It translates into; can't meet people openly. As in, no gay bar to go to or other meeting place. Therefore, where do men hang out? Bathrooms, parks...etc. Who knows how these places get started, but when I was a young closeted gay boy I purposely went to bathrooms because I figured that's where men went to! Where else was I going to go in a small city without a visible gay community?
Posted by hal on April 28, 2009 at 7:04 PM
13
Thanks dan. The statistics back you up on the "straight identifying" guys doing it in the park.

If you are closeted and/or married, doing it at home is a non-starter. Expecting these same people to rent a hotel room is equaly unrealistic.

It is one thing to get a guy to suck on you in the park and quite another to take them home. A lot of these guys are too closeted to even speak, let alone arrange a motel room.
Posted by Kip Waddle on April 28, 2009 at 7:07 PM
14
Is the moral of the story that Brendan has a "going" problem?
Posted by Christin on April 28, 2009 at 7:10 PM
Posted by alan on April 28, 2009 at 7:11 PM
16
@11 Same thing happened to me on Gay Pride Weekend walking past the doorway to Martin's.
Posted by slogger on April 28, 2009 at 7:13 PM
17
Are you pregnant, Brendan?
Posted by BestBeforeEnd on April 28, 2009 at 7:14 PM
18
I might not have this straight, as this isn't my personal story (because I'm a heterosexual), but as an American it's part of the collective story of our nation (which saddens me greatly). So, I'm trying to understand. As, I understand it, prior to the Stonewall Riots, June 1969, this country was far more condeming of homosexuals. (This country has come a long way, but we have not arrived.) Being outed as a homosexual resulted in the loss of your job and home, it often resulted in being arrested. A Times article in Jan 1966, "The Homosexual in America" described gays as being "cases of arrested development, a failure of learning, a refusal to accept the full responsibility of life" and suffering from "a pernicious sickness". So, to find companionship, friendship, romance and to fall in love homosexuals had to meet in public places where it was relatively safe for two individuals of the same gender to be found. I don't think it would be easy to find a hotel that would rent them a room. Nor, do I think that they could easily bring each other home to their apartment, without fear of being evicted and arrested. I think every state had anti-sodomy laws at the time as well. That is how I understand "can't live openly" translates into "must have sex IN PUBLIC".

That said, I'll acknowledge that heterosexuals share the guilt. A hell of a lot, but that's my opinion. I'd also like to say that, I am sorry. I am very sorry.

If I have any facts messed up. Please clue me in. If my commenting is offensive, tell me so. I can't learn without correction.
Posted by kim in portland on April 28, 2009 at 7:19 PM
19
18 is my rather long answer to 7's question.
Posted by kim in portland on April 28, 2009 at 7:20 PM
20
I'm sorry, but circumstances force you to have public sex? There was NO OTHER WAY? I was a furtive teenager having sex with an older man in motels. If I could figure it out, so could you.
Posted by give me a break on April 28, 2009 at 7:34 PM
21
fun.
Posted by rutabaga pie on April 28, 2009 at 7:35 PM
22
Liar. Desperate for hits, aren't you?
Posted by And your agenda is? on April 28, 2009 at 7:40 PM
23
Hey, if you have sex with a person of a different gender in a cruisy park, do the gays give you the stink-eye?
Posted by a matter of etiquette on April 28, 2009 at 7:52 PM
24
It doesn't matter if they're gay or straight or whatever, there are things called motels made specifically for this. Unless you're a hobo no sex in public. I mean, shitting in public is not ok, clipping your toenails is not ok, talking on bluetooth is not ok, so fucking is definitely not ok.

And pissing in public is ok, and in fact to be applauded.
Posted by menomina on April 28, 2009 at 7:59 PM
25
I think, Dan, unfortunately, you've got it exactly backwards.

Sex in public (which gay men did not invent) is not something that gay men "resorted" in the "olden days" before gay rights and all that. The point to sex in public is actually a kink or fetish involving the risk of potentially getting caught and inherently *not* intimate--it's all about anonymity. By far the majority of gay men in the "olden days" were having sex in private places in authentically intimate situations or in semipublic but gay locations such as movie houses, bathhouses, etc.

In fact, the vast majority of people--gay or straight--have and always have had sex in private places. The only time sex is had in public is because of the thrill factor and when there is a desire for anonymity.

Even in gay cruising areas, men often pick each other up but then go to another, private location to have sex. In the "olden days" that was way more common than actually having sex in the park--except, again, for those men out for the thrill of possibly getting caught.

I myself have stumbled upon gay men having sex in public only three times in my life; I have encountered straight couples having sex in public a good dozen times. There's nothing gay about public sex, really.

Anyway, it's more than a bit misleading to say that in the "olden days" gay men had only furtive, anonymous sex in public places because that was the "only intimacy" they were allowed to have. It's simply not true, not in the least.
Posted by Simac on April 28, 2009 at 8:05 PM
26
One other thought. This is 2009, gay rights are on the march. If these straight identifying men are so terrified of getting caught then isn't it kind of their own fault for being ashamed of their sexuality?
Posted by menomina on April 28, 2009 at 8:08 PM
27
@26 - I believe that is the point that Dan has been trying to make (on several occasions).
Posted by hyzenthlayk9 on April 28, 2009 at 8:11 PM
28
Kim @18 - Well said.

The only thing missing was: that until 1973, when the American Psychiatric Association removed it (from the DSM-II) as a disorder, homosexuality was seen as a mental illness.

The treatment of those labeled as 'mentally ill' was shameful at best. Many folks (who fell outside of society's accepted social norms) were accused, 'diagnosed', committed to facilities, and 'treated' - and had little to no power to get themselves released.

Taking home a partner (of the same sex), even if you knew them well enough, could still be dangerous if your family or neighbors suspected that something was up. Not all paranoia is unfounded.
Posted by hyzenthlayk9 on April 28, 2009 at 8:26 PM
29
Sorry, kinds off topic. I just got this in an email from Basic Rights Oregon.

Congress is voting on the Mathew Sheppard act tomorrow and they need to hear from you immediately.

We need you to make a quick call to your Representative's office TODAY! Even if you've already called. Call 202.224.3121 and tell your member of Congress to vote YES on the hate crimes bill.
Posted by kim in portland on April 28, 2009 at 8:28 PM
30
hyzenthlayk9 @ 28,

Thank you very much. I should have put that in my comment as well.
Posted by kim in portland on April 28, 2009 at 8:31 PM
31
great ending dan.

i LOL'd so hard at that.
Posted by emmtee03 on April 28, 2009 at 8:34 PM
32
Quickly: to the folks urging gay men, way back when it was illegal everywhere, to "get a room." That wasn't always easy, back when you could get arrested for having gay sex. A cruisy toilet was safer.
Posted by Dan Savage on April 28, 2009 at 8:43 PM
33
I thought Brendan handled the situation really politely. No "righteous anger" there.
Posted by Eric F on April 28, 2009 at 8:45 PM
34
A cruisy toilet was safer back then...probably like it was safer to follow through on an appearance at This American Life - Live without saying a word about how Cinemark theaters was hosting the event and the CEO of Cinemark contributed $9,999 to help pass Prop 8.

It's never been easy to confront your employer when they ask you to bust a boycott...or when they expect you to do it and offer you a paycheck to do it...and you do it. And you never explain it or say anything about it.

Kinda like trying to get a room back in the day to do the nasty, eh Dan? I guess you would have been one of the guys in the park when push comes to shove.
Posted by patrick on April 28, 2009 at 8:57 PM
35
oh, brother...there is so much CRAP on here and shockingly, a lot of it is coming from Dan, who as a sex columnist and assumedly a well read person, should know better. The idea that the men cruising parks for sex are all a bunch of pathetic closet cases too afraid and ashamed to come out, is just so much bullshit. Yes, many men (not all and not even a majority in many places) are self-identified straight men with wives and kids and mortgages in the 'burbs. Some of these guys ARE tormented closet cases because of their religion, ethnicity, social class, or their own fear and self-doubt. But, MANY of these 'straight' guys are TRADE, ie straight men who enjoy fucking their wives and girlfriends and looking at Playboy and going to strip clubs with their buddies. They also like sex...quick, furtive easy to get sex and a lot of these men can get a blow job (or even give a blow job) from a dude and not have it impact their life or their sense of their own idetified sexuality. And the idea that "normal" healthy gay men don't need to, or want to engage in promiscuous gay sex is even more laughable. Somehow, traditional gay cruising, (which by the way, didn't magically go away with the advent of Stonewall) has been magically reduced to some disgusting aberattion by the PC gay community because it doesn't fit in their agenda of presenting to the straight world how "good" and "normal" and "healthy" the gays are and how we are all JUST LIKE THE STRAIGHTS! and want to have spouses and 2.1 kids and the Suburu and the mortgage. Well, you know we DO deserve the same rights as the straights and if a gay man or woman wants all the rights and responsibilities of a "traditional" family then we need to get them. But, the whole "lets be like the straights" isn't for everyone and we need the right to live NON-traditional lifestyles if we choose. Does that mean we all need to be fucking a dozen guys in the middle of the street? No, it doesn't but somewhere along the way, the sex is being choked out of homosexuality to make us a better package to present to the straights.
More...
Posted by michael strangeways on April 28, 2009 at 10:53 PM
36
Damn, Dan! What are you doing with shoelaces? Don't you know they're all manufactured in China and imported to the US by Republicans? Always taking the safe path.
Posted by One more Tim on April 28, 2009 at 11:02 PM
37
oh, and the 'get a motel room' comments are a great idea for poor people or people in small towns...and finally, if you see anyone fucking in public and it's in plain site, then yell at them or call the cops. But, if you're hiking along a remote path or on a deserted beach or anywhere remote, (or even walking down a street at night and see people in their car) and stumble along someone trying to do ANTYTHING discreetly, whether it's peeing, making out, fucking, picking their nose, reading Ayn Rand or praying to their god, the polite thing to do is quietly withdraw and leave them the fuck alone.
Posted by michael strangeways on April 28, 2009 at 11:03 PM
38
Nicely done, michael strangeways. A breath of fresh air.
Posted by gloomy gus on April 28, 2009 at 11:31 PM
39
The main problem with sex is there are just so many unattractive people wanting it.
Posted by Andy Warhol on April 29, 2009 at 12:33 AM
40
@37 hey, if i don't see it then by all means, fuck away. i just don't like that parts of the arboretum are basically unusable because they look like dawn of the dead with cruising zombies all over the place, and they aren't too discreet about the actual sex either.
Posted by menomina on April 29, 2009 at 1:17 AM
41
ahhh l'amour ..l'amour.. toujours l'amour..
Posted by reverend dr dj riz on April 29, 2009 at 1:31 AM
42
yay @35!
Posted by um on April 29, 2009 at 5:51 AM
43
Dan said: we hardly ever hear from people who've actually happened upon cruisers mid-buttfuck/blowjob

Which Brenden apparently took as a call for anecdotes. He just tried to make up this surprising lack of cruising sex stories.

Speaking as someone who occasionally has to go potty away from home, I wish that there were some guide to the cruisy toilets, if only to avoid fmr Sen. Larry Craig. Put a sign up, as in Holland or whatever. I can understand the appeal of a no cost "singles bar" for the desperate; I just want to stay out.
Posted by No cruising zone on April 29, 2009 at 8:56 AM

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