Slog
News & ArtsMonday, April 27, 2009
News Will Someone Please Explain to Gun Nuts...
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:17 PM
...worried that the government is a comin' to take their guns that the quickest way to get the government to come and take your guns—and possibly your life—is to start taking shots at people because you're worried that the government is a comin' to take your guns?
You say you don't want the government to come and take your guns? Great. Don't shoot people with 'em and they won't. Start shooting people and the deal is off.
1
I heard someone tried to rush the Census Bureau with a gun today. That's probably another way to get your shit taken away.
2
"The events that led to the shooting deaths of two Okaloosa County sheriff's deputies Saturday began in a small top-floor apartment in Fort Walton Beach - with an argument over a tube of Clearasil."
It seems like he was just plain nuts and not necessarily a "gun nut".
It seems like he was just plain nuts and not necessarily a "gun nut".
5
I feel bad for their deaths, but I have to think the deputies should have thought twice about going to arrest a violent man AT A GUN RANGE.
You couldn't have kept an eye on him from afar and maybe picked him up at an Arby's, or while he was mowing his lawn or something afterwards?
But yeah, the dude was fucking nuts.
You couldn't have kept an eye on him from afar and maybe picked him up at an Arby's, or while he was mowing his lawn or something afterwards?
But yeah, the dude was fucking nuts.
6
I heard they were gonna come fer them whats tortured and takes our guns we done used on dem ahrabs.
Pass me the moonshine, ma!
Pass me the moonshine, ma!
7
That's pretty much what happened in Pittsburgh earlier this month. Domestic dispute over a dog involving a man who was convinced the government would take away his guns, so he stockpiled.
8
You have to appreciate the paradoxical tone of your post, Dan. We have the right to own guns. Guns have a use -- an "essence", if you will. Whence that essence is utilized, the right to own said gun is relinquished.
Of course, I am merely commenting on how a typical gun-loving person would perceive all of this. I personally don't see the point of guns, but at the same time I don't think it fair to restrict the right to own one. I'm sure there is much more to be said on this issue, but being a lowly retail worker, my lunch break is only 30 minutes; fatty needs his food.
Of course, I am merely commenting on how a typical gun-loving person would perceive all of this. I personally don't see the point of guns, but at the same time I don't think it fair to restrict the right to own one. I'm sure there is much more to be said on this issue, but being a lowly retail worker, my lunch break is only 30 minutes; fatty needs his food.
10
"Will in Seattle" -- who represents 70 percent of the thinking in Seattle -- has already said he would try and hang anyone who is a Republican.
Isn't self-defense needed?
Isn't self-defense needed?
12
@8 A typical gun-loving person blames Obama for all three deaths. I say this after reading the comments on the linked article.
My feeling is that gun-nuts own guns for a variety of reasons that rarely include actual self-defense. Have there been cases where a person was able to defend their family or other innocent people as a direct result of carrying a firearm? Yes. But the rate of gun ownership is way out of proportion to the rarity of those events, so there's obviously a lot of spurious (i.e. "the gubmint is conspiring against me, hurr") reasoning motivating people to buy guns.
My feeling is that gun-nuts own guns for a variety of reasons that rarely include actual self-defense. Have there been cases where a person was able to defend their family or other innocent people as a direct result of carrying a firearm? Yes. But the rate of gun ownership is way out of proportion to the rarity of those events, so there's obviously a lot of spurious (i.e. "the gubmint is conspiring against me, hurr") reasoning motivating people to buy guns.
13
Right on. I live in Pittsburgh, where some 23 'kid' just shot and killed 3 cops with an AK-47, at least in part because he's been getting increasingly paranoid about having his guns taken away. Uh, I would say that killing 3 police officers with an AK-47 is probably not the best way to try and keep your damn guns.
14
Personally Dan I'm still waiting for someone from the Stranger to write an article taking a side on the woman arrested for assault after shooting a man who attacked her after getting off a bus.
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Comme…
Please address the questions there.
Is she a "gun nut" or someone legally defending herself and her family?
Let's see if the Stranger really has some balls or not.
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Comme…
Please address the questions there.
Is she a "gun nut" or someone legally defending herself and her family?
Let's see if the Stranger really has some balls or not.
15
@12 Here's your sign:
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Comme…
One only needs to look at this past weekend for something local to be a prime example for you.
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Comme…
One only needs to look at this past weekend for something local to be a prime example for you.
17
ladies: when your BF is significantly older than you (28 is way older than 21), collects guns, and hates barack obama, DO NOT MARRY HIM. go in the opposite direction.
18
I need to stockpile guns for the upcoming wars with the clone armies, who are sure to arise now that Obama has relaxed the stem-cell research laws... It's a slippery slope from stem-cells to clone armies taking over the galaxy.
19
Cars kill way more people than guns. Can we please start trying to take those away from people instead? Or at least from people that are terrible drivers?
20
@12 I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. Allow me to be more explicit in what I meant. I do not see any use for guns other than to kill people. The violence, in this city alone, is at a ridiculous level. I can't read Slog on any day where there is not at least 1-2 posts about a shooting somewhere in the city. It absolutely disgusts me that people feel the need to purchase guns, and not just handguns, but machine guns. Why would anyone ever need to own an AK-47? Or an M-16? There is absolutely no need for anyone to personally own those weapons.
The problem I run into is answering the question of when should the government step in and regulate who can purchase and use a gun. I guess I'm guilty of being an idealist. Do I see the need for guns? No. Do I wish people would just refrain from feeling the need to own guns? Yes. Do I have the right to tell others how to live? No. That is my problem, if it even warrants being called that.
The problem I run into is answering the question of when should the government step in and regulate who can purchase and use a gun. I guess I'm guilty of being an idealist. Do I see the need for guns? No. Do I wish people would just refrain from feeling the need to own guns? Yes. Do I have the right to tell others how to live? No. That is my problem, if it even warrants being called that.
21
@15 The woman in that article represents what I would call the best possible type of gun owner - properly licensed to carry a gun, only used it for a purely self defense purpose in what could reasonably be deemed a life-threatening situation, and apparently had some training on how to use it.
But, Jon @20, I do agree with you in that I wish fewer people felt the need to own guns, because there's really no mechanism in place to separate the disturbed wackjobs from the responsible ones, hence stories like the one linked to this post.
But, Jon @20, I do agree with you in that I wish fewer people felt the need to own guns, because there's really no mechanism in place to separate the disturbed wackjobs from the responsible ones, hence stories like the one linked to this post.
22
what i can't believe is that the wife pulled a gun on him twice. you'd think after the first time she pulled a gun ON A SOLDIER, had it taken from her and got popped for the effort, she wouldn't have done it again. dollar to a dime she pointed the gun at him but wouldn't shoot.
another hint that the man you're living with might hit you:
(1) he's done it before
(2) he keeps an arsenal in the house
(3) gets 'controlling et al' when he's angry
(4) um ... he's not going the counseling he was sentenced to when he hit you before
(5) obama is president
the cops TASERED an armed man, who they already know has a violent history and an ARSENSAL? okay.
@21 - WHAT? she had some training? what on earth gave you that impression? if she had been trained, she have shot him instead of having TWO guns taken away from her.
another hint that the man you're living with might hit you:
(1) he's done it before
(2) he keeps an arsenal in the house
(3) gets 'controlling et al' when he's angry
(4) um ... he's not going the counseling he was sentenced to when he hit you before
(5) obama is president
the cops TASERED an armed man, who they already know has a violent history and an ARSENSAL? okay.
@21 - WHAT? she had some training? what on earth gave you that impression? if she had been trained, she have shot him instead of having TWO guns taken away from her.
23
We should have a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy for guns.
Buy all the guns you want and we'll leave you alone. If we ever find out you have them via your actions, we'll come take them away.
Buy all the guns you want and we'll leave you alone. If we ever find out you have them via your actions, we'll come take them away.
24
@21: Best possible type of gun owner, my ass! Let's quote a bit from the article:
She eventually got out of the room and took a Taurus 9mm handgun from her purse for self-defense. Cartwright took that gun, too, then punched her and threw her to the floor, according to the report.
What the hell kind of moron draws a gun "for self-defense" and then lets the man she's supposedly defending herself from take it from her without shooting him? This whole thing could have ended that morning, with no innocents dead, if given him two to the chest and one to the head.
She eventually got out of the room and took a Taurus 9mm handgun from her purse for self-defense. Cartwright took that gun, too, then punched her and threw her to the floor, according to the report.
What the hell kind of moron draws a gun "for self-defense" and then lets the man she's supposedly defending herself from take it from her without shooting him? This whole thing could have ended that morning, with no innocents dead, if given him two to the chest and one to the head.
26
As a liberal with a gun, having grown up in a family that hunts, the majority of gun owners are not crazy nut jobs. Are there crazy people with guns? YES! the problem isn't that we need more laws, we just need to enforce the ones we already have, 'cause it's not happening. I find the crazy's are rare but they are dangerous and (rightly so) get the media attention. Personally I think there are two different issues at hand here: gun control in the country, and gun control in the city. They mean two different things, and I think we should handle it as such.
27
But what's the point of having the Right to bear arms if you can't use them to bust a cap in a couple of cops whenever you feel particularly cranky?
28
i heard there are 100,000 incidents a year of brandishing or firing a gun in the US for self defense. Like the woman on the bus.
The best media bias is the exclusion of facts.
The best media bias is the exclusion of facts.
29
14
rrrright - crazy man spits on woman, (the attack you mention) woman in turn shoots man in the chest. I believe there should be a prison cell in her future. At the very least she should not be allowed to own a gun.
rrrright - crazy man spits on woman, (the attack you mention) woman in turn shoots man in the chest. I believe there should be a prison cell in her future. At the very least she should not be allowed to own a gun.
30
@22 and 24
I am referring to the woman who shot the man assaulting her in Seattle over the weekend, which Reality Check @15 linked to in his comment. That was pretty clear in my comment. Reading comprehension fail.
I am referring to the woman who shot the man assaulting her in Seattle over the weekend, which Reality Check @15 linked to in his comment. That was pretty clear in my comment. Reading comprehension fail.
33
The majority of car owners are quite sane, and yet when someone goes insane with one of them (and I've known a few batshit-whackjobs with licenses that shouldn't have them), we don't see anyone advocating we should further restrict the right to drive. And this is despite the greater proportion of motor vehicles that kill compared to guns.
To answer @20's question, reasons for owning an AK-47 any of the M16 variants, or heck the now antiquated (and therefore legal) WWII and Vietnam era weapons, include a) keeping our representatives nervous, and b) giving China pause before considering a land invasion on our soil. Reasons to own such weapons also include c) because guns are cool, and d) the ability to cast a slug five-hundred yards and splinter a glass bottle feels very empowering, and e) because guns can be very pretty all lined up in an oaken case or hanging over one's hearth.
The point is, it doesn't matter why we like to have guns, but the quantity that we have seems to indicate that we like them. The problem is not that we have too many guns, but that we're too eager to pull them out and use them in inappropriate situations. Canada seems to be fine with having lots of guns, and yet they seem to have a significantly better respect for them, and the ramifications of pulling one out, than we do.
The laws we have indicate we acknowledge they're not toys. To legally drive a car you have to have an alcohol level below a certain point. To handle a gun legally, you must abstain from drinking alcohol for at least twenty-four hours -- the same rule it takes to fly a plane -- and yet I don't hear many cases in which someone was busted for shooting (or even brandishing) under the influence.
In Bowling For Columbine, Michael Moore (who, granted, is sometimes a dick) suggested it's our culture of fear that makes us so trigger happy. I happen to agree with him. Considering that it's Fox News that is telling guys (whacko or otherwise, whoever tunes in) that Obama's coming to take their guns away and establish a (Bush-style) police state, one might ponder exactly how this culture of fear is continuing to perpetuate.
More...
To answer @20's question, reasons for owning an AK-47 any of the M16 variants, or heck the now antiquated (and therefore legal) WWII and Vietnam era weapons, include a) keeping our representatives nervous, and b) giving China pause before considering a land invasion on our soil. Reasons to own such weapons also include c) because guns are cool, and d) the ability to cast a slug five-hundred yards and splinter a glass bottle feels very empowering, and e) because guns can be very pretty all lined up in an oaken case or hanging over one's hearth.
The point is, it doesn't matter why we like to have guns, but the quantity that we have seems to indicate that we like them. The problem is not that we have too many guns, but that we're too eager to pull them out and use them in inappropriate situations. Canada seems to be fine with having lots of guns, and yet they seem to have a significantly better respect for them, and the ramifications of pulling one out, than we do.
The laws we have indicate we acknowledge they're not toys. To legally drive a car you have to have an alcohol level below a certain point. To handle a gun legally, you must abstain from drinking alcohol for at least twenty-four hours -- the same rule it takes to fly a plane -- and yet I don't hear many cases in which someone was busted for shooting (or even brandishing) under the influence.
In Bowling For Columbine, Michael Moore (who, granted, is sometimes a dick) suggested it's our culture of fear that makes us so trigger happy. I happen to agree with him. Considering that it's Fox News that is telling guys (whacko or otherwise, whoever tunes in) that Obama's coming to take their guns away and establish a (Bush-style) police state, one might ponder exactly how this culture of fear is continuing to perpetuate.
34
I blame right-wing talk radio. It is a 24/7 grudge nurseathon, against "socialism" and other evils that the "Kenyan President" represents.
It's bad enough for those who work for a living, but the unemployed get a non-stop dose.
It's bad enough for those who work for a living, but the unemployed get a non-stop dose.
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