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News & ArtsMonday, April 27, 2009
News Bound & Gagging
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 6:11 PM
Let's say you're a couple of brothers in Pakistan and you've got a nice little business going making fetish gear for export—floggers, restraints, corsets, ball gags. But you don't want your workers—the women who are stitching these items together—or, God forbid, your local conservative Muslim clerics to know what the hell you're up to. A small factory known for making sex toys for infidels in the United States and western Europe is a small factory that has a date with a crazed suicide bomber. So what do you tell people?
Recently, when a curious employee inquired about the purpose of the sleep sack, a sleeping bag-like product used in certain kinds of bondage, she was told it was a body bag for the American military in Iraq.
Oh, the tragic plausibility of it all. Everyone knows now that America tortures people and since torture implements have to be made somewhere, why not Pakistan?
2
Yeah, Comte is right, except for the "erstwhile" part (what the fuck, Comte?). A body bag is something you put a dead body in, not a torture implement.
4
Okay @2, the adjective doesn't fit, but then again, I know the proper spelling of "Minderbinder", so we're even.
5
Dan,
You need to define torture. When Oscar Wilde, one of my favorite wits of all time was imprisoned by the British in the 1890s for "gross indecency" (he was a gay man), the British tortured him by not giving him a pen and paper. It was devastating.
Like waterboarding, not giving a man of letters pen and paper doesn't leave a trace. But, I remain against both. This sanctimony of "everybody knows now that America tortures people" is getting ridiculous.
You need to define torture. When Oscar Wilde, one of my favorite wits of all time was imprisoned by the British in the 1890s for "gross indecency" (he was a gay man), the British tortured him by not giving him a pen and paper. It was devastating.
Like waterboarding, not giving a man of letters pen and paper doesn't leave a trace. But, I remain against both. This sanctimony of "everybody knows now that America tortures people" is getting ridiculous.
10
This reminds me how I was surprised at the number of Pakistani or Pakistani-British (including some super cute guys) who were selling punk or leather fetish gear in the Camden Town area of London when I took a trip there a few months ago.
12
Does Dan have any clue how much other countries torture?
Pakistan, for example.
Cuba?
Syria?
Egypt, Iran, Libya, North Korea, etc etc etc.
As bad as Gitmo was the irony is that half of those guys can't be released because their home countries routinely torture and kill prisoners as a matter of course.
Is Dan aware of what Saddam did to anyone who crossed him?
Which doesn't make it OK for America but Dan tends to see the world thru narrow slits that only let in things that reinforce his own bigotries and prejudices.
Not an admirable trait in a 'journalist'.
Pakistan, for example.
Cuba?
Syria?
Egypt, Iran, Libya, North Korea, etc etc etc.
As bad as Gitmo was the irony is that half of those guys can't be released because their home countries routinely torture and kill prisoners as a matter of course.
Is Dan aware of what Saddam did to anyone who crossed him?
Which doesn't make it OK for America but Dan tends to see the world thru narrow slits that only let in things that reinforce his own bigotries and prejudices.
Not an admirable trait in a 'journalist'.
14
@11,
I agree. I believe that those that draw an either/or line regarding "torture" (as I asked Dan to define) will find themselves in an ethical minefield should Pres. Obama be confronted with the same scenario or worse as Pres. Bush was on 9/11.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewar…
I agree. I believe that those that draw an either/or line regarding "torture" (as I asked Dan to define) will find themselves in an ethical minefield should Pres. Obama be confronted with the same scenario or worse as Pres. Bush was on 9/11.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewar…
15
The whole "torture" thing will get really, really boring the next time we go to war, and our soldiers are captured and "enhanced interrogation technique'd" to death. "No torture" doesn't mean "some torture". It means "no torture", and there's a handy set of guidelines in the Army Field Manual if you wanna look it up.
America didn't torture captives for many, many valid reasons:
Interrogation under torture is unreliable.
War is not revenge.
We need to keep good relations with local populations.
Mistakenly torturing someone is hard to excuse.
"All men are created equal..." etc.,
But perhaps the most important reason, from the point of view of a soldier in the field, is that the less we torture our captives, the less the enemy will torture us. In war there are no guarantees, and both sides will always commit atrocities, particularly now with the advent of asymmetrical conflict. At the very, very least, a policy of humane prisoner treatment opens the door to reciprocal behavior.
Even if it doesn't, we are supposed to be better than morally crippled enemies like the Taliban. Having the strength in wartime means controlling ourselves, and not lowering ourselves to the level of an animal or a baby. Those who endorse torture with a straight face are disgusting: shitting their pants and standing at attention.
America didn't torture captives for many, many valid reasons:
Interrogation under torture is unreliable.
War is not revenge.
We need to keep good relations with local populations.
Mistakenly torturing someone is hard to excuse.
"All men are created equal..." etc.,
But perhaps the most important reason, from the point of view of a soldier in the field, is that the less we torture our captives, the less the enemy will torture us. In war there are no guarantees, and both sides will always commit atrocities, particularly now with the advent of asymmetrical conflict. At the very, very least, a policy of humane prisoner treatment opens the door to reciprocal behavior.
Even if it doesn't, we are supposed to be better than morally crippled enemies like the Taliban. Having the strength in wartime means controlling ourselves, and not lowering ourselves to the level of an animal or a baby. Those who endorse torture with a straight face are disgusting: shitting their pants and standing at attention.
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