Slog

News & Arts

The Stranger Suggests

Critics' Best Bets
Music Arts & Food


Line Out

Music & the City
at Night

Sunday, April 26, 2009

What Is it Good For?

Posted by on Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 11:41 AM

It's not a matter of whether waterboarding and other forms of torture practiced by our government during the War on Terror was cruel or not. That is the wrong way to think about it. We were, according to Bush, in a state of war, and torture is consistent with a state of war. What people must understand is that no such thing as civility exists in such a state. To believe there can be codes of conduct, rules, reason in war is to fail to understand what war is all about. What war opens is a realm not of law and order but of one where everything is possible; meaning, a realm dominated by nothingness. Here, everything comes down to nothing. This is the obscene freedom in which all manner of crimes thrive.

A real grasp of this fact would certainly make if more difficult to go into war. Why? Because if you think war can be contained and managed, you are likely to go into it in much the same way you would go into a sporting event (an event that is contained, has borders, refs, and penalties for foul acts). But if you know it is not about rules of engagement and disengagement, if you see it as it actually is, as an absolute chaos that consumes everything because everything in it is possible, you will use any diplomatic means to avoid what is the great (if not the greatest) void.

We must not say that torture is bad but that torture, in a state of war, has its home. Torture outside of war? Here it is a complete stranger.

So, our government declared a war on terrorists, the war opened its gates and we entered hell: torture, murder, sexual abuse, and so on and so on—the obscene freedoms. So far, so good. However, this was not the case. There was no real war on terror. All of this torturing did not happen in a state of war (a state of lawlessness) but of peace (a state of law). The state authorized torture of "enemy combatants" (soldiers without a state) was cruel for the very reasons that Frank Rich pointed out in NYT today:

The report found that Maj. Paul Burney, a United States Army psychiatrist assigned to interrogations in Guantánamo Bay that summer of 2002, told Army investigators of... [the real] White House imperative: “A large part of the time we were focused on trying to establish a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq and we were not being successful.” As higher-ups got more “frustrated” at the inability to prove this connection, the major said, “there was more and more pressure to resort to measures” that might produce that intelligence.

In other words, the ticking time bomb was not another potential Qaeda attack on America but the Bush administration’s ticking timetable for selling a war in Iraq; it wanted to pressure Congress to pass a war resolution before the 2002 midterm elections.

We are now finding out that the torture was not about war with stateless terrorists but starting a war with a state that had nothing to do with international terrorism. As you can see, this is a major ethical problem. In fact, this is criminal. In war, there is no such thing as crime—which is why the expression "war crimes" is redundant. There can only be crimes during peace times. A disturbance is not a disturbance if it happens in a great disturbance. It is nothing at all—fire in fire, smoke in smoke, ashes in ashes, destruction all around. For a disturbance to exist there must be a situation in which its opposite dominates—stability, a state of peace. And that is precisely why torture, in this context, the context of trying to justify a war in a situation of peace, is criminal. Indeed, the fact that the enemy combatants did not create or confirm a phony link between themselves and Iraq, even under tremendous pain, makes them more honest and honorable than their torturers.

 

Comments (22) RSS

Oldest First Unregistered On Registered On Add a comment
1
this is the story that needs to be told to the american public... i hope this gets a cover story in the next stranger...
Posted by jay on April 26, 2009 at 12:31 PM
2
we're not five years old, you fucking prick.
Posted by quit already on April 26, 2009 at 12:31 PM
3
Of course we must say that torture is bad. Anyone *unwilling* to say that torture is bad writes themselves out of the human race. I still remember a time when torture was a violation of everything this country allegedly *stood for*. There is one place and one place only that torture has a "home" and that is in the oppressive regime of a brutal and barbaric dictator.

How is it that the writer of this article still has a job with this paper?
Posted by redwulf25 on April 26, 2009 at 12:47 PM
4
smoke that bong, muhdik
Posted by you smoke the hell outta it on April 26, 2009 at 1:14 PM
5
I always wondered if the fact they were using a Chinese torture manual designed to get false confessions from prisoners, had anything to do with the Bush adminstration actually wanting to get false confessions. Turns out they did just want our prisoners to be willing to say anything. The same tactics worked on getting John McCain to sign a false confession. I hate to use the word 'evil' but boy does it apply to the Bush administration if these allegations are indeed true.
Posted by Snugglesaurus Rex on April 26, 2009 at 1:15 PM
6
While Charles finally addresses the key topics of the week and likely this entire year, in particular, that the Cheney Bush team was using torture to get false info to find a link to Iraq (been saying it what? 4 days now?) most of what Charles says is wrong and pernicious. The whole point of the entire body of international law and human rights law is that fuck you Charles, yes, there are rules of war; yes there are rules that apply even if you face an existential threat. Charles accepts the central wrong premise of Cheneyism -- that if there WERE a big enough threat, then torture would be okay. Wrong. Once you accept or promote that all's fair in war, (a)you are misleading your readership on hornbook international law (really Charles, did you even study any of this shit ever? go read a treaty for starters.) (b) you are rejecting a huge swath of human progress in the last two centuries, including human rights movement and similar, which has been to ban all kinds of inhumane treatment of persons despite all the typical excuses; and (c) you empower the whole premise of Cheneyism -- politically. Please stop promoting Cheneyism through your own ignorance. You might start by actually reading some of those treaties and thinking about how they came about. Guess what: in the actual history of the world, the USA isn't the first nation to ever face a dire threat and be tempted by torture. And yes, that scenario was thought of, when we all signed onto the anti torture treaties.
Posted by PC on April 26, 2009 at 1:22 PM
7
PC, you are devilishly misreading me. my point actually has its own rich tradition in philosophy and political theory. it stands on the ground that a "just war" is just not possible. and worse still, the idea of a just humanizes the ultimate inhumanity of war. in short, i'm a radical pacifist.
Posted by mudede on April 26, 2009 at 1:36 PM
8
"What war opens is a realm not of law and order but of one where everything is possible; meaning, a realm dominated by nothingness... A real grasp of this fact would certainly make if more difficult to go into war."

Or it wouldn't change how hard it is to go into war at all, and it would just mean that people stop trying to make war as civilized as it can be. Do you really imagine that this idea would have stopped Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz? Or do you, like me, instead imagine that they would say "Fuck it, war is always ugly. People know that. We're not even going to try to hide the fact that we plan to torture prisoners. Hell, what am I saying? Prisoners? Let's just kill everybody who gets in the way. What is a civilian, really, but a soldier who hasn't been drafted yet?"

Rich tradition or not, your way of thinking seems to me to make awful behavior even easier.
Posted by Mike on April 26, 2009 at 1:44 PM
9
@ 7
I thought your post was very clear and that your points are right on mark. This whole business of saying torture is bad period is a no brainer. But war in itself, like you said is bad too--if it were possible to have a 'just war,' then why are the majority of wars injust (aka not following the so-called rules of war).

I think you shine a clear light on the issue by reframing it.
Posted by ewwe on April 26, 2009 at 1:45 PM
10
"What war opens is a realm not of law and order but of one where everything is possible; meaning, a realm dominated by nothingness... A real grasp of this fact would certainly make if more difficult to go into war."

Or it wouldn't change how hard it is to go into war at all, and it would just mean that people stop trying to make war as civilized as it can be. Do you really imagine that this idea would have stopped Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz? Or do you, like me, instead imagine that they would say "Fuck it, war is always ugly. People know that. We're not even going to try to hide the fact that we plan to torture prisoners. Hell, what am I saying? Prisoners? Let's just kill everybody who gets in the way. What is a civilian, really, but a soldier who hasn't been drafted yet?"

Rich tradition or not, your way of thinking seems to me to make awful behavior even easier.
Posted by Mike on April 26, 2009 at 1:46 PM
11
Do you really imagine that this idea would have stopped Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz? Or do you, like me, instead imagine that they would say "Fuck it, war is always ugly. People know that. We're not even going to try to hide the fact that we plan to torture prisoners.


But, they did do that. They abandoned all pretense of following the rules of a "just" war.

I think the point is to get the people to see all war as unjust, so their knee-jerk reaction will be to oppose any war, as compared to the immediate reaction to pretty much every war the U.S. has ever fought: knee-jerk, gung-ho support up until the war starts getting uncomfortable for us.
Posted by keshmeshi on April 26, 2009 at 1:51 PM
12
Charles,
I was about to ask whether you're a pacifist or not. Indeed, you responded to PC that you're a "radical pacifist". At least I understand where you're coming from. I disagree but I appreciate your candor. I do believe there is such a thing as a "just war". BTW, I read Rich's article just before reading SLOG.
Posted by lark on April 26, 2009 at 2:02 PM
13
"A real grasp of this fact would certainly make if more difficult to go into war. "

Isn't that the whole point of saying that torture is wrong even during a time of war? I.e., to say that there are consequences for the crimes that thrive in in this "obscene freedom" is to say that war should be a difficult decision, and that those who make that decision need to do so with the knowledge that they can proceed without violating the conscience of their nation.

You call this "radical pacificism," Charles, and perhaps it is. But it is frankly irrelevant in the same way that radical socialism is when it dismisses foodbanks and charities in the name of "real" solutions. It's the armchair purist radicalism that inevitably aligns itself with the well-fed aristocrats. And the torturers. Real world solutions are dismissed because they exist on the same plane as the real world problems -- and the real world is the problem, after all. Right?
Posted by Lee on April 26, 2009 at 2:03 PM
14
There are war crimes, but only the losers are prosecuted.
Posted by Henry Dunant on April 26, 2009 at 3:48 PM
15
Ah, a man after dear General Sherman's own heart...

I think ultimately this is, at least for the foreseeable future, a moot question. The nation vs. nation imperial wars of the past just don't make sense in a world with trade and finance so utterly interconnected. We have instead entered the era of insurgencies: small, disenfranchised groups fighting against large, entrenched powers. That isn't war any more. The insurgents could never win a traditional "war," and they know that. So they resort to different tactics, terror among them. In this world, there are no discrete conflicts with starting declarations of war or ending truces. These are long, ideological conflicts that last decades.

In that world, insurgents will never abide by "rules of war." They are powerless when they abide by the rules. The only way anyone notices them is if they're willing to do the things the other guy isn't. Hell, the American colonists knew this back when they were fighting for their independence. The "rules of war" said you go out on a battlefield, line up, point guns at each other, and blow each other to shit. The Americans learned from the Native Americans the art of the ambush. They fought from the shadows, sniped the British, and generally refused to "fight fair."

And you know what? They won. The fact that they wanted their freedom instead of the ability to impose a fascist, repressive theocracy doesn't change the fact that the basic strategy is the same.

That doesn't mean what the Bush regime did was okay. Among other things, it was illegal. What it does mean is that we can't rely on pleasant agreements about which kinds of barbarism are more civilized than others made over tea to determine what does and does not happen when two groups fight. Armed conflict is ugly. Terribly, horrifically ugly. And you stop it by making people understand that. Viscerally. For all our violent impulses, they found that snipers in World War II...soldiers trained extensively to ignore their own morality and to kill whom they were told to...couldn't pull the trigger when they could see their target's face.

Violence and murder are only possible when they're abstract.
More...
Posted by Halcyonic on April 26, 2009 at 4:07 PM
16
The Americans learned from the Native Americans the art of the ambush. They fought from the shadows, sniped the British, and generally refused to "fight fair."

And you know what? They won.


The French with their traditional army played a major part in that.
Posted by keshmeshi on April 26, 2009 at 4:39 PM
17
"In fact, this is criminal. In war, there is no such thing as crime—which is why the expression "war crimes" is redundant. "


If there is no such thing as crime in war, then "war crimes" would not be redundant, ie, having the same meaning, but rather would be an oxymoron, like military intelligence.
Posted by Silverstar98121 on April 26, 2009 at 6:06 PM
18
no, redundant. having the same meaning is my meaning. war is crime not in its opposite but optimal condition. "military," on the other hand, is not the same as "intelligence," therefore "military intelligence" is an oxymoron and not redundant.
Posted by mudede on April 26, 2009 at 6:41 PM
19
What's it good for? Absolutely nothing. Say it again.
Posted by Soo on April 26, 2009 at 8:02 PM
20
No matter what the situation we cannot stand to lose our values, for then we are no better than the enemy and then what was the war for in the first place. I would rather be conquered than live in a country that openly and freely excepts torture and an "ok" practise.
Posted by The Gay Atheist on April 27, 2009 at 10:10 AM
21
@14,
You have a point. I am reminded of something Gen. Curtis LeMay, fighter pilot who led the American sorties over Dresden in 1945, former Sec. of the USAF and vice-presidential candidate in 1968, said. He remarked that if the USA and its allies had lost WWII, he would have been tried for crimes against humanity.
Posted by lark on April 27, 2009 at 10:39 AM
22
Smart as usual, CM.
Posted by BenY on April 27, 2009 at 7:19 PM

Add a comment

Advertisement
 

All contents © Index Newspapers, LLC
1535 11th Ave (Third Floor), Seattle, WA 98122
Contact Info | Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Takedown Policy