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News & ArtsSunday, April 26, 2009
City The Gay Hive Mind
Posted by Dominic Holden on Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 6:02 PM
I love this agitprop poster, even though it doesn't make any sense.
I mean, yes, several people were arrested in the Stonewall riots, but that doesn't mean every queer person opposes building a new jail. One gay seems to question the statement, writing, "Do we?"
(If you are queer and oppose building a new jail, go here.)
1
So the police founded the modern gay and lesbian civil rights movement? We owe our freedoms to the NYPD?
2
I WONT PRESUME TO SPEAK FOR SAVAGES RPLACE MAFIA AS REPRESENTED BY HIS BUTT BOY HOLDEN BUT YES THERE ARE MANY SELF-ACTUALIZED QUEERS RADICAL FAIRIES AND DYKES OF SIZED WHO ARE OUTRAGED BY THE IDEA THAT WE NEED ANY MORE JAILS WHEN THAT MONEY COULD BE USED TO HELP MEMBERS OF THE FQTBLG COMMUNITY WHO HAVE BEEN IMPACTED BY THE GENTRIFICATION OF TRADITIONAL QUEER SPACES ON CAPITOL HILL AND THE RESULTING CULTURAL GENOCIDE
5
Wow. Rant @2 is even more incoherent than the poster.
Logical arguments can be made on both sides of the debate over the need for a new jail. But I fail to see what sexual orientation has to do with it.
Logical arguments can be made on both sides of the debate over the need for a new jail. But I fail to see what sexual orientation has to do with it.
6
One of my pet peeves is when people attempt to speak on behalf of an entire group of people without any real authority or grounds to do so. I mean if you join the ACLU then you grant the leadership the right to speak on behalf of the entire membership, but being gay or trans doesn't really do the same thing.
Its made all the more amusing by the fact that person who made the sign would likely be strongly opposed to stereotyping...
Its made all the more amusing by the fact that person who made the sign would likely be strongly opposed to stereotyping...
7
Hey, I-100 supporters: Where should Seattle Police Dept put wife-beaters after arresting them -- the "naughty corner"? If County won't let Seattle lease jail space (County's choice not Seattle's), then seems like Seattle has no choice but to build its own facility.
This isn't the big, bad prison-industrial complex. Even Mayberry needed a jail.
This isn't the big, bad prison-industrial complex. Even Mayberry needed a jail.
8
@7
Not to mention muggers, gaybashers, gang related thug shooters, all getting released early because they need room for new inmates.
Not to mention muggers, gaybashers, gang related thug shooters, all getting released early because they need room for new inmates.
9
Some thoughts on why this issue is relevant to LGBTQ people:
1. Jails and prisons are enormous sources of violence for queer and trans people.
Queer and trans people are targeted for rape and sexual assault in prisons, jails and juvenile punishment facilities regularly. Trans women are placed in men’s prisons and jails all over the US, experiencing enormous violence. Queer and trans people also experience severe medical neglect in prisons, jails, and juvenile punishment programs.
2. Queer and trans people are overrepresented in prisons and jails.
Queer and trans people, especially people of color, are disproportionately poor and homeless due to job discrimination, school discrimination and family rejection. Many are discriminated against when they seek help from social services, foster care systems, homeless shelters and drug treatment facilities. Many survive by doing criminalized work, like sex work, and face profiling and harassment and brutality by police. All of these conditions result in high incidence of arrest and imprisonment of queer and trans people.
3. Issues of gender and sexual violence are being used to justify the ongoing growth of imprisonment, and we won’t let them create more state violence in our names.
In recent years social movements that have pointed out the enormous amount of sexual and gender violence in our culture have found our arguments co-opted by the state to justify increased policing and imprisonment. We’re now told that policing and punishment is the solution to domestic violence, sexual assault and hate violence, but we know that imprisonment does not address the root causes of these problems, does not make our communities safe, and increases our vulnerability. The prison is the worst rapist, batterer and predator of queer people, trans people and women, and we won’t watch it expand in our names!
4. Imprisonment has quadrupled in the US since 1980, and targets people of color, poor people, women, and sexual/gender outsiders.
The US imprisons 25% of the world’s prisoners though we have only 5% of the world’s population. One in one hundred people in the US are imprisoned, and one in nine black men between the ages of 20 and 34 are imprisoned. We won’t stand by while this expansion continues in Seattle.
5. We want community responses to violence, drug use, and poverty that actually make us safer, not prisons and jails that ruin people’s lives and expand violence.
Seattle wants to spend $200 million on a new jail while it closes schools and cuts social services. We want that money for real solutions to the root causes of social problems.
More...
1. Jails and prisons are enormous sources of violence for queer and trans people.
Queer and trans people are targeted for rape and sexual assault in prisons, jails and juvenile punishment facilities regularly. Trans women are placed in men’s prisons and jails all over the US, experiencing enormous violence. Queer and trans people also experience severe medical neglect in prisons, jails, and juvenile punishment programs.
2. Queer and trans people are overrepresented in prisons and jails.
Queer and trans people, especially people of color, are disproportionately poor and homeless due to job discrimination, school discrimination and family rejection. Many are discriminated against when they seek help from social services, foster care systems, homeless shelters and drug treatment facilities. Many survive by doing criminalized work, like sex work, and face profiling and harassment and brutality by police. All of these conditions result in high incidence of arrest and imprisonment of queer and trans people.
3. Issues of gender and sexual violence are being used to justify the ongoing growth of imprisonment, and we won’t let them create more state violence in our names.
In recent years social movements that have pointed out the enormous amount of sexual and gender violence in our culture have found our arguments co-opted by the state to justify increased policing and imprisonment. We’re now told that policing and punishment is the solution to domestic violence, sexual assault and hate violence, but we know that imprisonment does not address the root causes of these problems, does not make our communities safe, and increases our vulnerability. The prison is the worst rapist, batterer and predator of queer people, trans people and women, and we won’t watch it expand in our names!
4. Imprisonment has quadrupled in the US since 1980, and targets people of color, poor people, women, and sexual/gender outsiders.
The US imprisons 25% of the world’s prisoners though we have only 5% of the world’s population. One in one hundred people in the US are imprisoned, and one in nine black men between the ages of 20 and 34 are imprisoned. We won’t stand by while this expansion continues in Seattle.
5. We want community responses to violence, drug use, and poverty that actually make us safer, not prisons and jails that ruin people’s lives and expand violence.
Seattle wants to spend $200 million on a new jail while it closes schools and cuts social services. We want that money for real solutions to the root causes of social problems.
10
@9 This is what I am talking about. You assume that somehow simply by being LGBTQ these issues are something they should be concerned about.
Let me put it in a way you might understand. The oppressive power structure in its quest for hetronormativity, places LGBTQ people in a box as the other. By insisting that somehow being LGBTQ means one must care about a new jail you are endorsing and enforcing the paradigm of categorization that marginalizing LGBTQ people and places defines their identity though their sexuality.
In other words you are part of the problem and need to raise your awareness.
Let me put it in a way you might understand. The oppressive power structure in its quest for hetronormativity, places LGBTQ people in a box as the other. By insisting that somehow being LGBTQ means one must care about a new jail you are endorsing and enforcing the paradigm of categorization that marginalizing LGBTQ people and places defines their identity though their sexuality.
In other words you are part of the problem and need to raise your awareness.
11
Thanks dps for outlining this issue's relevance for queer and trans folk. I think that what this poster does quite effectively is gesture toward a queer critique of the state. Stonewall was set off by long-standing, programmatic state violence. In this age of single-issue politics, marriage equality, safe street campaigns, and industrialized LG non-profits funded and run largely by upper-middle class white gay men, I think a lot of us have been too quick to forget how deeply invested the state is in governing whom and how we love, "appropriate" spaces for sex and intimacy, how we circulate in the public sphere, and what we can and cannot do with our bodies.
I think the jail plans also mark the clear intersection of race, sexuality, gender and class. Resisting these plans promises a possible alternative--by means of coalitional work--to the de facto and de jure racism that has structured so much of what counts as "LGBT" politics (think, for instance, of the racist backlash to the prop 8 vote that found it expression on slog among other places).
Finally, to the other commenters who have disingenuously read the poster's slogan as making a universalizing claim, please note that it says "queer and trans people" not "all queer and trans people"--i.e. the poster is attributing the statement "no new jail" to a group of people (presumably those who generated and disseminated the poster) not entire populations. I also think it's telling just how quickly "queer and trans" got transcribed as "gay" in many of these comments--what kind of universalizing erasures are taking place there?
I think the jail plans also mark the clear intersection of race, sexuality, gender and class. Resisting these plans promises a possible alternative--by means of coalitional work--to the de facto and de jure racism that has structured so much of what counts as "LGBT" politics (think, for instance, of the racist backlash to the prop 8 vote that found it expression on slog among other places).
Finally, to the other commenters who have disingenuously read the poster's slogan as making a universalizing claim, please note that it says "queer and trans people" not "all queer and trans people"--i.e. the poster is attributing the statement "no new jail" to a group of people (presumably those who generated and disseminated the poster) not entire populations. I also think it's telling just how quickly "queer and trans" got transcribed as "gay" in many of these comments--what kind of universalizing erasures are taking place there?
12
I must be reading @10 wrong because it looks like the poster is saying "Framing issues relevant to queer and trans people as something queer and trans people should care about contributes to the marginalization of queer and trans people."
13
@11 So if I said black people sure do love white women and watermelons that would be cool since I did not say 'all' and clearly some black people do enjoy they refreshing taste of watermelon and find white women attractive? How about if I said queer and trans people should be saddened by the passing of Bea Arthur since 'you people' seem to like old white women?
You are essentializing people based on particular traits and it is no different form any other form of stereotyping no matter how much you try to dress it up with linguistical complexity.
Can't you express your opposition to a jail using actual arguments instead of appealing to group identity. Especially group identities that exist simply becasue they enforced by the very power structure you seek ot oppose.
You are essentializing people based on particular traits and it is no different form any other form of stereotyping no matter how much you try to dress it up with linguistical complexity.
Can't you express your opposition to a jail using actual arguments instead of appealing to group identity. Especially group identities that exist simply becasue they enforced by the very power structure you seek ot oppose.
14
@12 I am saying taking an issue like the jail and framing it as something that queer and trans people should care about qua queer and trans people, takes a particular trait, being queer or trans, and uses it to enforce a particular political or ideological position. While perhaps lacking the power structure it is just as marginalizing and oppressive as the shit they complain about.
Opposing or supporting the jail is something that is distinct form ones sexual identity and a gay/queer/trans/whatever person has just as much right to be on one side or the other without people implying they are somehow violating their group identity.
Opposing or supporting the jail is something that is distinct form ones sexual identity and a gay/queer/trans/whatever person has just as much right to be on one side or the other without people implying they are somehow violating their group identity.
15
Goddam... sometimes you commenters don't make any sense at all.
Seriously. I'm marginalizing every last angry anonymous one of you.
Seriously. I'm marginalizing every last angry anonymous one of you.
16
Well...check it out, I'm one of the queer and/or trans people that opposes the jail. And, I do not think the poster makes claims that all queer and trans people think or do anything. I oppose the jail for the reasons laid out by number 9. I believe the system we have regarding law, justice, criminality, and accountability is broken. I do not believe the way to fix it is by building more jails and prisons and creating more prisoners.
To Dan Savage's comment, c'mon Dan you know what the poster is saying, Stonewall was a police riot...it was an organized police action against which queer and trans people resisted and fought back. But don't play dumb just because you don't agree with the messaging of the poster. It was a police riot. I know you know your queer history.
P.S. #13, I hardly think that making a comparison between a political belief that is being stated by a group of people and a stereotype that you would be claiming for a group of people (e.g. liking white women and watermelon) to which you may or may not belong is the same thing...so your comparison doesn't really work.
To Dan Savage's comment, c'mon Dan you know what the poster is saying, Stonewall was a police riot...it was an organized police action against which queer and trans people resisted and fought back. But don't play dumb just because you don't agree with the messaging of the poster. It was a police riot. I know you know your queer history.
P.S. #13, I hardly think that making a comparison between a political belief that is being stated by a group of people and a stereotype that you would be claiming for a group of people (e.g. liking white women and watermelon) to which you may or may not belong is the same thing...so your comparison doesn't really work.
17
What #12 said. I agree that the poster is obnoxious in its attempt to speak on behalf of all queer & trans people without the authority to do so, but I'm having a hard time finding any essentializing/marginalizing in #9's argument.
I'd like to think that we would still have a group identity post-heterosexist dominant culture; just because it is a product of marginalizing forces doesn't mean we should give it up. It's a productive tool of resistance, which is why it formed in the first place.
I'd like to think that we would still have a group identity post-heterosexist dominant culture; just because it is a product of marginalizing forces doesn't mean we should give it up. It's a productive tool of resistance, which is why it formed in the first place.
18
Ok, then who has the authority to speak for the entire "community"? The HRC? They do not speak for me, but I understand why and for what purposes they take up the language of community. Who gets to decide group identity and the authority vested in it?
If it is only dominant forces and voices that matter, then I don't want to play. If we only listened to the most dominant forces in our community, then Stonewall wouldn't have happened because the "street kids", the hustlers, the queens, the trannies, and the most marginalized of the queers in that bar were the ones who fought back first. What if the others in the bar had decided that those voices of resistance didn't matter? It would have been like any other bar raid with the most marginalized spending more time in jail.
So, I ask you again number 17 and others who think that someone needs to vest others with authority to speak for a group....how does that authority get vested? Who decides? I did not vote for the HRC. I did not vote for the NGLTF. So, you see, sometimes you will agree with the things done in the name of your community and sometimes you won't, but you do not get to tell those of us who are queer and trans and do not want a jail that we cannot identify ourselves as queer and trans people who do not want a jail because we are that. You can not like it, you can oppose it, you can make your own signs against it, you can write slogs about it, but you cannot de-legitimize our voices.
If it is only dominant forces and voices that matter, then I don't want to play. If we only listened to the most dominant forces in our community, then Stonewall wouldn't have happened because the "street kids", the hustlers, the queens, the trannies, and the most marginalized of the queers in that bar were the ones who fought back first. What if the others in the bar had decided that those voices of resistance didn't matter? It would have been like any other bar raid with the most marginalized spending more time in jail.
So, I ask you again number 17 and others who think that someone needs to vest others with authority to speak for a group....how does that authority get vested? Who decides? I did not vote for the HRC. I did not vote for the NGLTF. So, you see, sometimes you will agree with the things done in the name of your community and sometimes you won't, but you do not get to tell those of us who are queer and trans and do not want a jail that we cannot identify ourselves as queer and trans people who do not want a jail because we are that. You can not like it, you can oppose it, you can make your own signs against it, you can write slogs about it, but you cannot de-legitimize our voices.
19
@ 10 - While you're so worked up over who's stereotyping/categorizing who, the state's busy locking up poor people, people of color, queers. Have you ever been inside a jail or prison? If not, I'm going to categorize you as someone not equipped to speak for or against prisons or the people expressing opinions about them. I do legal support work with people inside and I would challenge you to take some time to bear witness before you make statements undermining concern about prisons or attempts to make the issues more public.
You offend me with your talk of the metaphorical box of heteronormativity, referring to the limiting categorization of LGBT people. I want to thank whomever is connecting queer issues to jails and prisons because this shit is urgent. These are actual metal cages, not metaphors. Spend some of your time coming up with real solutions to violence, racism and poverty and you'll stop being part of the problem too. Also, if you're so concerned about the limits of identity politics, stop rambling on about it and move the conversation somewhere productive.
You offend me with your talk of the metaphorical box of heteronormativity, referring to the limiting categorization of LGBT people. I want to thank whomever is connecting queer issues to jails and prisons because this shit is urgent. These are actual metal cages, not metaphors. Spend some of your time coming up with real solutions to violence, racism and poverty and you'll stop being part of the problem too. Also, if you're so concerned about the limits of identity politics, stop rambling on about it and move the conversation somewhere productive.
20
1 Dan, when some brotha finally gets around to pumping a few slugs into your punkassfaggot buttocks and laughs about it where would you like us to put him?
21
Some people are overwrought. Relax, take a breath.
Yes we need fewer laws and fewer jails. But please, don't think you can manipulate me so easily.
Yes we need fewer laws and fewer jails. But please, don't think you can manipulate me so easily.
22
Domenic does not like hippies or political organizers - what a refreshing backdrop for social change - white boy main stream energy and ideas, surely will work wonders
geez
of course queer folks, most ALL of us, support reforms the jail issue opens the door to
of course, any of us on the FRONT lines have been arrested, have always followed the mis deeds of justice and abhor the incarceration rates of minorities and low level offenders in the US
Yes, let's DO SOMETHING, and wave the rainbow and chant all the good group words, OK by me
geez
of course queer folks, most ALL of us, support reforms the jail issue opens the door to
of course, any of us on the FRONT lines have been arrested, have always followed the mis deeds of justice and abhor the incarceration rates of minorities and low level offenders in the US
Yes, let's DO SOMETHING, and wave the rainbow and chant all the good group words, OK by me
26
@18 No one. That's the fucking point. The HRC has a right to speak on behalf of their members and even to go so far as to say X issue would be beneficial to X people, but that do not have a right to impute beleifs and politics onto people simply be vestige of them belonging to a group defined solely on traits deemed significant by some. No one is the voice of a community when that community is not defined by some degree of voluntary membership.
And yeah do all the organizing and jail opposing you want. But it is you that is 'de-legitimizing' the queer or trans* people that may support the jail. They have a right to not have your voice forced upon though the use of language that says that because they are one thing they must think this way.
@19 To be honest I don't really give a shit about your offense. That's your problem not mine. But yes I have been in jails, in this country and in others. Shockingly though, one may have the same knowledge as you and yet come to a different conclusion. Not that I am gun ho about jails, but while not relevant to the sign, I do think a new one is a good idea. The King County jail is a pretty shitty place(especially their mental health spaces) and unless the magic hippy peace fairy, I'm sorry addressing root causes and ending racism, there are going to be people who cannot live with the rest of us and need to be locked up. Having a nicer facility to do that is better for everyone.
@23, Just a burned out ex-grad student here who got a head full of theory before leaving for more lucrative and reality based pursuits but still enjoys these discursive games...
*Terms themselves that are highly problematic. I ma decently familiar with the work, discourse if you will, surrounding terms and frankly am not convinced it is all that cogent. I mean if so simply say queer and trans people are those defined as such by 'society' or conversely through self identification then sure, but attempting to define the traits that equal queer or trans is not easy. Sexuality tends to be among the defaults along with of course gender expression, but those are not clear cut. For example most would rather quickly say a man in a dress is some degree of 'trans', but would not say the same thing a man who likes to bake, or keep a clean house, when those traits have been just as gendered as others. This is part fo the problem with a sign like this as it tends to define queer and trans people along the lines of a classically oppressed groups whereas many may not or may not want ot see themselves that way.
More...
And yeah do all the organizing and jail opposing you want. But it is you that is 'de-legitimizing' the queer or trans* people that may support the jail. They have a right to not have your voice forced upon though the use of language that says that because they are one thing they must think this way.
@19 To be honest I don't really give a shit about your offense. That's your problem not mine. But yes I have been in jails, in this country and in others. Shockingly though, one may have the same knowledge as you and yet come to a different conclusion. Not that I am gun ho about jails, but while not relevant to the sign, I do think a new one is a good idea. The King County jail is a pretty shitty place(especially their mental health spaces) and unless the magic hippy peace fairy, I'm sorry addressing root causes and ending racism, there are going to be people who cannot live with the rest of us and need to be locked up. Having a nicer facility to do that is better for everyone.
@23, Just a burned out ex-grad student here who got a head full of theory before leaving for more lucrative and reality based pursuits but still enjoys these discursive games...
*Terms themselves that are highly problematic. I ma decently familiar with the work, discourse if you will, surrounding terms and frankly am not convinced it is all that cogent. I mean if so simply say queer and trans people are those defined as such by 'society' or conversely through self identification then sure, but attempting to define the traits that equal queer or trans is not easy. Sexuality tends to be among the defaults along with of course gender expression, but those are not clear cut. For example most would rather quickly say a man in a dress is some degree of 'trans', but would not say the same thing a man who likes to bake, or keep a clean house, when those traits have been just as gendered as others. This is part fo the problem with a sign like this as it tends to define queer and trans people along the lines of a classically oppressed groups whereas many may not or may not want ot see themselves that way.
27
haw haw haw
"people of color" = dignified and almost mystical
"colored people" = totally offensive
DOUBLEPLUSGOOD FOR YOU
"people of color" = dignified and almost mystical
"colored people" = totally offensive
DOUBLEPLUSGOOD FOR YOU
29
So wait, I'm confused... gays should fight against the new prison because the prison discriminates against the queer community? I thought prisons just discriminated against criminals.
the commenters on this thread remind me of the sloganeering fanatics in my college gender and identity class.
the commenters on this thread remind me of the sloganeering fanatics in my college gender and identity class.
30
@19
If you have ever been to the any jail in King County you would know they are overcrowded. The time I had to go for about three days, (when I should have gotten out after one but there were too many people for the judge to see in two days) we all were sleeping on the floor. You could barely walk around.
Need I remind you this is a county jail, not prison. This is where you go for not paying a jay walking ticket and you get a warrant, or if you get caught selling a small amount of pot, or get one too many speeding tickets. While it certainly isn't a pleasant experience, it's hardly an episode of an A&E prison show.
If you have ever been to the any jail in King County you would know they are overcrowded. The time I had to go for about three days, (when I should have gotten out after one but there were too many people for the judge to see in two days) we all were sleeping on the floor. You could barely walk around.
Need I remind you this is a county jail, not prison. This is where you go for not paying a jay walking ticket and you get a warrant, or if you get caught selling a small amount of pot, or get one too many speeding tickets. While it certainly isn't a pleasant experience, it's hardly an episode of an A&E prison show.
31
I guess the GLBT community doesn't understand the difference between Jail and Prison. This is what happens when you let mommy's money activists take control of your movement.
I'm waiting for folks to realize that the majority of these "radical" types are just the common middle-class white males dressing in destitution drag to keep people from seeing their abundant privilege.
I'm waiting for folks to realize that the majority of these "radical" types are just the common middle-class white males dressing in destitution drag to keep people from seeing their abundant privilege.
35
WE ARE FIGHTING FOR GAY ANAL QUEER SPACES OF COLOR! LET EVERYONE IN JAIL GO! RACISM! HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN ABOUT SLAVERY?
SLAVERY!!!!???!!!
DOWN WITH STRAIGHT WHITE PRIVILEGE! NO MORE JAILS! NO MORE LAWS! QUEER ANAL SPACES of color WITH NO RULES NOW!
SLAVERY!!!!???!!!
DOWN WITH STRAIGHT WHITE PRIVILEGE! NO MORE JAILS! NO MORE LAWS! QUEER ANAL SPACES of color WITH NO RULES NOW!
36
ok angry people what are you so pissed off about? so some queers and trans folks oppose the jail? and? your problem is?
some queers and trans folks support marriage? others think the institution of marriage should be abolished. some queers and trans folks think people should serve openly in the military? others think the military shouldn't exist. some queer and trans folks will march on may day as immigrants or in solidarity for immigrant rights. others will stand by and think that illegal immigration is breaking our country's economic back.
as much as it may pain me, you, us, the movement is not homogeneous...it is complex.
some queers and trans folks support marriage? others think the institution of marriage should be abolished. some queers and trans folks think people should serve openly in the military? others think the military shouldn't exist. some queer and trans folks will march on may day as immigrants or in solidarity for immigrant rights. others will stand by and think that illegal immigration is breaking our country's economic back.
as much as it may pain me, you, us, the movement is not homogeneous...it is complex.
38
I AM A RAYDICAL GAY DYKE FAEIRE QUEER ANUS OF COLOR FIGHTING FOR QUEER SPACES WHERE FAT LESBIANS OF COLOR CAN MENSTRUATE IN PEACE WITHOUT ALL THE EVIL INFLUENCE OF BREEDERS. STOP THE CULTURAL GENOCIDE AND RENT US A CHEAP PLACE FOR OBESE QUEER MENSTRUATERS OF COLOR AND SIZE! NO MORE COPS!
39
How fucking pathetic. Once again, when given a choice, Dominic Holden takes the RIGHT WING VIEW instead of the PROGRESSIVE VIEW. Does anyone notice how similar the Stranger's alleged "progressive" or "liberal" criticism of any political activism or organizing sounds a lot like Fox News right wing commentary, full of sarcasm and lacking any substance? So long as we have the Stranger, Glenn Beck wannabes will live on.
As for wife beaters, we would put them in the same place we put them now. Duh. The current jail. There's more than enough room for them, as long as they're not on the City Council.
Dominic, I again extend my invitation to you to join us here in the real world of political organizing. You would learn a great deal. It might even make you a better writer.
Why oh Why must the Stranger make up stories and issues where there are none and ignore real issues right in front of their faces? The awesome flyer doesn't say all queers oppose the new jail. But the smart ones do. And, as is the goal of all propaganda, it makes a case that we should. Duh.
How many Stranger articles have I read about police brutality? Do you guys read your own shit and connect the dots? Let me refresh:
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Conte…
http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/seat…
http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/seat…
http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/06/spd_…
http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/09/re_d…
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Conte…
http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/06/tran…
http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/10/seat…
http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/stud…
http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/live…
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/face-…
The fact that you can bitchily dismiss what happened at the Stonewall Rebellion clearly shows you DON'T in fact know what happened. It was more than just a few queers getting arrested. And it wasn't just this one night. Go read a book, kid. There's plenty out there. If you cared half as much about anything else as you do about legalizing pot, you might be worth reading.
It makes no sense to me, when the prisons are overrun with marijuana users, why a dedicated marijuana smoker like Dominic Holden would NOT take an anti-new jail position. BE CONSISTENT, DOMINIC. If you're really bored and need a story to write, talk to some humans out in public and ask what issues they care about.
Your lack of consistency in your political positions should tell all of us you haven nothing important or relevant to say. Are you a narc or a police informant? It would not be unheard of for a police department to have a "journalist" on the payroll.
More...
As for wife beaters, we would put them in the same place we put them now. Duh. The current jail. There's more than enough room for them, as long as they're not on the City Council.
Dominic, I again extend my invitation to you to join us here in the real world of political organizing. You would learn a great deal. It might even make you a better writer.
Why oh Why must the Stranger make up stories and issues where there are none and ignore real issues right in front of their faces? The awesome flyer doesn't say all queers oppose the new jail. But the smart ones do. And, as is the goal of all propaganda, it makes a case that we should. Duh.
How many Stranger articles have I read about police brutality? Do you guys read your own shit and connect the dots? Let me refresh:
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Conte…
http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/seat…
http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/11/seat…
http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/06/spd_…
http://slog.thestranger.com/2006/09/re_d…
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Conte…
http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/06/tran…
http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/10/seat…
http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/stud…
http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/07/live…
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/face-…
The fact that you can bitchily dismiss what happened at the Stonewall Rebellion clearly shows you DON'T in fact know what happened. It was more than just a few queers getting arrested. And it wasn't just this one night. Go read a book, kid. There's plenty out there. If you cared half as much about anything else as you do about legalizing pot, you might be worth reading.
It makes no sense to me, when the prisons are overrun with marijuana users, why a dedicated marijuana smoker like Dominic Holden would NOT take an anti-new jail position. BE CONSISTENT, DOMINIC. If you're really bored and need a story to write, talk to some humans out in public and ask what issues they care about.
Your lack of consistency in your political positions should tell all of us you haven nothing important or relevant to say. Are you a narc or a police informant? It would not be unheard of for a police department to have a "journalist" on the payroll.
40
How dare you criticize anything that naive gay queer marxist commies of color do, Dominic!
YOU MUST BE A NARC OR ON FOX NEWS OR SOMETHING
YOU MUST BE A NARC OR ON FOX NEWS OR SOMETHING
41
Wow, there are some really ridiculous comments on this thread. I guess it is further proof that just because someone is homosexual does not mean they have real progressive politics. How many of the gay people who hate that poster (which is awesome, by the way, great artist!!) would vote Republican if the party supported gay marriage? My guess is most of them. That is why I have solidarity with people who side with the exploited and the oppressed, regardless of their sexuality, rather than calling someone my ally just because we both happen to like gay sex. Maybe seeing the nonsense the hysterical privileged gays are posting, proving they are just vying to be accepted into the ruling class, will help my fellow working class queers to recognize who really has your back. Ignore the haters, they clearly need hobbies aside from water polo and clubbing baby seals and whatever else reactionary privileged gays do for fun.
42
Let's all riot for no jails and "queer spaces" while we get high and listen to "Rage Against The Machine" and jack off to posters of Che Guevara! So much fun! Mommy and Daddy will bail us out with last week's interest collected off our trust funds!
44
I'd prefer better sentencing guidelines that would keep non-violent offenders out of jail for the most part, oh, and some fucking cops that took violent crime short of murder seriously.
45
The funniest part is that you just KNOW the folks making the smears about radical queers being trust fund kids ARE ACTUALLY trust fund kids.
46
A “SINGLE VOICE PROJECT” is the official name of the petition sponsored by: The National Public Service Council To Abolish Private Prisons (NPSCTAPP)
THIS PETITION SEEKS TO ABOLISH ALL PRIVATE PRISONS IN THE UNITED STATES, (or any place subject to its jurisdiction)
The National Public Service Council To Abolish Private Prisons (NPSCTAPP) is a grass roots organization driven by a single objective. We want the United States government to reclaim sole authority for state and federal prisons on US soil.
We want the United States Congress to immediately rescind all state and federal contracts that permit private prisons “for profit” to exist in the United States, or any place subject to its jurisdiction. We understand that the problems that currently plague our government, its criminal justice system and in particular, the state & federal bureau of prisons (and most correctional and rehabilitation facilities) are massive. However, it is our solemn belief that the solutions for prison reform will remain unattainable and virtually impossible as long as private prisons for profit are permitted to operate in America.
Prior to the past month, and the fiasco of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG, Lehman Brothers, and now the “Big Three” American Automobile manufacturers, the NPSCTAPP has always felt compelled to highlight the “moral Bottom line” when it comes to corrections and privatization. Although, we remain confounded by the reality that our government has allowed our justice system to be operated by private interests. The NPSCTAPP philosophy has always been “justice” should not be for sale at any price. It is our belief that the inherent and most fundamental responsibility of the criminal justice system should not be shirked, or “jobbed-out.” This is not the same as privatizing the post office or some trash pick up service in the community. There has to be a loss of meaning and purpose when an inmate looks at a guard’s uniform and instead of seeing an emblem that reads State Department of Corrections or Federal Bureau of Prisons, he sees one that says: “Atlas Prison Corporation.”
Let’s assume that the real danger of privatization is not some innate inhumanity on the part of its practitioners but rather the added financial incentives that reward inhumanity. The same logic that motivates companies to operate prisons more efficiently also encourages them to cut corners at the expense of workers, prisoners and the public. Every penny they do not spend on food, medical care or training for guards is a dime they can pocket. What happens when the pennies pocketed are not enough for the shareholders? Who will bailout the private prison industry when they hold the government and the American people hostage with the threat of financial failure…“bankruptcy?” What was unimaginable a month ago merits serious consideration today. State and Federal prison programs originate from government design, and therefore, need to be maintained by the government. It’s time to restore the principles and the vacated promise of our judicial system.
John F. Kennedy said, “The time to repair the roof is while the sun is shinning”. Well the sun may not be shinning but, it’s not a bad time to begin repair on a dangerous roof that is certain to fall…. because, “Incarcerating people for profit is, in a word WRONG”
There is an urgent need for the good people of this country to emerge from the shadows of cynicism, indifference, apathy and those other dark places that we migrate to when we are overwhelmed by frustration and the loss of hope.
It is our hope that you will support the NPSCTAPP with a show of solidarity by signing our petition. We intend to assemble a collection of one million signatures, which will subsequently be attached to a proposition for consideration. This proposition will be presented to both, the Speaker Of The House Of Representatives (Nancy Pelosi) and the United States Congress.
Please Help Us. We Need Your Support. Help Us Spread The Word About This Monumental And Courageous Challenge To Create Positive Change. Place The Link To The Petition On Your Website! Pass It On!
The SINGLE VOICE PETITION and the effort to abolish private “for profit” prisons is the sole intent of NPSCTAPP. Our project does not contain any additional agendas. We have no solutions or suggestions regarding prison reform. However, we are unyielding in our belief that the answers to the many problems which currently plague this nation’s criminal justice system and its penal system in particular, cannot and will not be found within or assisted by the private “for profit” prison business. The private “for profit” prison business has a stranglehold on our criminal justice system. Its vice-like grip continues to choke the possibility of justice, fairness, and responsibility from both state and federal systems.
These new slave plantations are not the answer!
For more information please visit: http://www.npsctapp.blogsppot.com/ or email: williamthomas@exconciliation.com
To sign the petition please visit: http://www.petitiononline.com/gufree2/pe…
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT!
National Community Outreach Facilitator
The National Public Service Council To Abolish Private Prisons
P.O. Box 156423
San Francisco, California 94115
More...
THIS PETITION SEEKS TO ABOLISH ALL PRIVATE PRISONS IN THE UNITED STATES, (or any place subject to its jurisdiction)
The National Public Service Council To Abolish Private Prisons (NPSCTAPP) is a grass roots organization driven by a single objective. We want the United States government to reclaim sole authority for state and federal prisons on US soil.
We want the United States Congress to immediately rescind all state and federal contracts that permit private prisons “for profit” to exist in the United States, or any place subject to its jurisdiction. We understand that the problems that currently plague our government, its criminal justice system and in particular, the state & federal bureau of prisons (and most correctional and rehabilitation facilities) are massive. However, it is our solemn belief that the solutions for prison reform will remain unattainable and virtually impossible as long as private prisons for profit are permitted to operate in America.
Prior to the past month, and the fiasco of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG, Lehman Brothers, and now the “Big Three” American Automobile manufacturers, the NPSCTAPP has always felt compelled to highlight the “moral Bottom line” when it comes to corrections and privatization. Although, we remain confounded by the reality that our government has allowed our justice system to be operated by private interests. The NPSCTAPP philosophy has always been “justice” should not be for sale at any price. It is our belief that the inherent and most fundamental responsibility of the criminal justice system should not be shirked, or “jobbed-out.” This is not the same as privatizing the post office or some trash pick up service in the community. There has to be a loss of meaning and purpose when an inmate looks at a guard’s uniform and instead of seeing an emblem that reads State Department of Corrections or Federal Bureau of Prisons, he sees one that says: “Atlas Prison Corporation.”
Let’s assume that the real danger of privatization is not some innate inhumanity on the part of its practitioners but rather the added financial incentives that reward inhumanity. The same logic that motivates companies to operate prisons more efficiently also encourages them to cut corners at the expense of workers, prisoners and the public. Every penny they do not spend on food, medical care or training for guards is a dime they can pocket. What happens when the pennies pocketed are not enough for the shareholders? Who will bailout the private prison industry when they hold the government and the American people hostage with the threat of financial failure…“bankruptcy?” What was unimaginable a month ago merits serious consideration today. State and Federal prison programs originate from government design, and therefore, need to be maintained by the government. It’s time to restore the principles and the vacated promise of our judicial system.
John F. Kennedy said, “The time to repair the roof is while the sun is shinning”. Well the sun may not be shinning but, it’s not a bad time to begin repair on a dangerous roof that is certain to fall…. because, “Incarcerating people for profit is, in a word WRONG”
There is an urgent need for the good people of this country to emerge from the shadows of cynicism, indifference, apathy and those other dark places that we migrate to when we are overwhelmed by frustration and the loss of hope.
It is our hope that you will support the NPSCTAPP with a show of solidarity by signing our petition. We intend to assemble a collection of one million signatures, which will subsequently be attached to a proposition for consideration. This proposition will be presented to both, the Speaker Of The House Of Representatives (Nancy Pelosi) and the United States Congress.
Please Help Us. We Need Your Support. Help Us Spread The Word About This Monumental And Courageous Challenge To Create Positive Change. Place The Link To The Petition On Your Website! Pass It On!
The SINGLE VOICE PETITION and the effort to abolish private “for profit” prisons is the sole intent of NPSCTAPP. Our project does not contain any additional agendas. We have no solutions or suggestions regarding prison reform. However, we are unyielding in our belief that the answers to the many problems which currently plague this nation’s criminal justice system and its penal system in particular, cannot and will not be found within or assisted by the private “for profit” prison business. The private “for profit” prison business has a stranglehold on our criminal justice system. Its vice-like grip continues to choke the possibility of justice, fairness, and responsibility from both state and federal systems.
These new slave plantations are not the answer!
For more information please visit: http://www.npsctapp.blogsppot.com/ or email: williamthomas@exconciliation.com
To sign the petition please visit: http://www.petitiononline.com/gufree2/pe…
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT!
National Community Outreach Facilitator
The National Public Service Council To Abolish Private Prisons
P.O. Box 156423
San Francisco, California 94115
47
I-100 has absolutely fuck all to do with homosexuality, prison reform, and privatization of prisons. It's an initiative against building a local public jail; and it's just plain misguided.
Only the most seriously wacko of the many wackos posting comments here would take the position that the City of Seattle literally will never need to jail any single person ever ever again.
I-100 supporters say there's no need for a Seattle jail. Where else besides a jail would I-100 supporters have Seattle's police officers bring drunk drivers and wife beaters? I'm game for legalizing drugs. Until/unless we decide as a society that we should also legalize domestic violence, Seattle will continue to need to have a jail.
If the County won't allow Seattle to use the downtown jail, then Seattle has very little bloody choice but to build its own fucking facility.
Only the most seriously wacko of the many wackos posting comments here would take the position that the City of Seattle literally will never need to jail any single person ever ever again.
I-100 supporters say there's no need for a Seattle jail. Where else besides a jail would I-100 supporters have Seattle's police officers bring drunk drivers and wife beaters? I'm game for legalizing drugs. Until/unless we decide as a society that we should also legalize domestic violence, Seattle will continue to need to have a jail.
If the County won't allow Seattle to use the downtown jail, then Seattle has very little bloody choice but to build its own fucking facility.
48
I REPRESENT THE GAY RADYKAL LEZBO ANAL BULLDYKE QUEER FAERIE THEORY BRIGADE OF COLOR FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF ALL JAILS AND THE BUTTFUCKING OF ALL COPS! STOP THE GENOCIDE! QUEER GAY ANAL QUEER THEORY OF COLORED ANUS SPACES NOW!
49
@ 48 - You know, the "BUTTFUCKING OF ALL COPS" part of your comment discriminates against bottoms. Just sayin'...
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