Slog
News & ArtsThursday, April 23, 2009
Homo What He Said
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 9:47 AM
It's remarkable that it's no longer seen as remarkable when a plurality (in NJ) support gay marriage.
3
From your link's link to an AP story:
"The latest poll finds 49 percent support gay marriage while 43 percent are opposed."
We're winning.
"The latest poll finds 49 percent support gay marriage while 43 percent are opposed."
We're winning.
4
Dan, you are slacking off. You have not posted nearly enough stuff about gay marriage today. Please post at least 20 more gay marriage related articles before the end of the work day, thanks.
5
It is weird about how you hear so much about gay marriage here at Slog and nothing about it on any other blogs or in newspapers or on the TV. It's like the issue doesn't even exist outside of Slog.
6
Posted by Poppys 12:59 PM, 04/23/2009
All of this over the word. .... It is purely and simply only selfish on the part of all gays. That's it."
WHAT? Is it selfish to want what someone else has? No, it is selfish to prevent someone else from having what you have!
All of this over the word. .... It is purely and simply only selfish on the part of all gays. That's it."
WHAT? Is it selfish to want what someone else has? No, it is selfish to prevent someone else from having what you have!
8
A split in a poll questions under the existent environment of intimidation by gay groups and some individual that's prevalent in our nation (as the Miss California incident shows) is hardly a win. Take it to the people where it counts on the voting process and then it will be truly determined one way or the other. But gay groups don't want that they rather cited polls instead of the real thing.
10
@7, I realize it's difficult being the poster boy for The National Organization For The Sarcasm Impaired, but you're doing a heckuva job - keep up the good work!
11
Alright, Loveschild-- should we be able to vote to have your IP and e-mail address posted and summarily banned?
I think it would be a great study of democracy in action! Vote for whatever you frigging want, since it's quite clear that if someone doesn't like you, they can vote against you!
I think it would be a great study of democracy in action! Vote for whatever you frigging want, since it's quite clear that if someone doesn't like you, they can vote against you!
12
11, Go easy on the old girl. I'm sure it hurts to see public opinion shifting away from her antiquated point of view, and to be left behind in her old thinking.
13
6 Having compassion for people who are burdened by a desire for a non procreative sexual behavior doesn't translate into supporting it. The desire of normalcy of gay unions (by way of gay marriage) isn't something you really want to promote not because its necessarily harmful for the two men or two women who want to engage in such a union (although you could argue that it shortens their life by the sexual acts they engage in) but because it gives green light or stokes a sense of normalcy in the minds of kids, teens and upcoming generations. And homosexuality is not a sustainable or productive conduct for any society that wants to keep existing in the future, heterosexuality is.
15
Loveschild,
If a majority of Seattle voted you out of Seattle, would you support that and move somewhere else? After all, when the mob speaks, you listen, right?
If a majority of Seattle voted you out of Seattle, would you support that and move somewhere else? After all, when the mob speaks, you listen, right?
16
@13: Show me a correlation between mainstream acceptance of gay rights and teen pregnancy rates, then tell me with a straight face that equality would provoke a drop in procreative sex in future generations.
Last I checked, there wasn't one.
Actually, they spiked, so on second thought, you're welcome.
Last I checked, there wasn't one.
Actually, they spiked, so on second thought, you're welcome.
17
Loveschild,
Heterosexuals like me are also "burdened" with a desire for non-procreative sexual behavior (hence the popularity of birth control). So you don't support that, either? You don't support birth control? And do you REALLY think that when society sees being gay as "normal" and worthy of marriage that it is going to MAKE people gay? I love women, but I have never met one that I wanted to have sex with (I'm also female) -- EVER. The vast majority of the earth's population is heterosexual, and we will continue to do what heterosexuals do and reproduce with or without gay people having the right to marry. Affording gay people the same right to marry their loved ones as we do is just the decent thing to do, and societies that have already done so have NOT imploded or stopped reproducing. Get a grip.
Heterosexuals like me are also "burdened" with a desire for non-procreative sexual behavior (hence the popularity of birth control). So you don't support that, either? You don't support birth control? And do you REALLY think that when society sees being gay as "normal" and worthy of marriage that it is going to MAKE people gay? I love women, but I have never met one that I wanted to have sex with (I'm also female) -- EVER. The vast majority of the earth's population is heterosexual, and we will continue to do what heterosexuals do and reproduce with or without gay people having the right to marry. Affording gay people the same right to marry their loved ones as we do is just the decent thing to do, and societies that have already done so have NOT imploded or stopped reproducing. Get a grip.
19
16 17 Have any of you ever heard of the demographic winter western Europe is experiencing, the only thing that's sustaining it is eastern Europe and migrants from the muslim world.
We're heading the same way as it shows in places that have adopted their same ideology:
http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view…
We're heading the same way as it shows in places that have adopted their same ideology:
http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view…
21
@ 19, like that's a bad thing. Or something that wasn't happening for years before same-sex marriage started being legalized anywhere in the world.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Do you understand?
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Do you understand?
22
I think Humans are doing a bang-up job populating this planet to death without my specific contribution of any personal genetic material.
23
Loveschild, Russia does not support gay marriage. In fact, that country is pretty darn intolerant of gay people and it ALSO has negative population growth. Using your faulty reasoning (that population growth or lack thereof is tied to a country's views on gay rights), Russia's relative intolerence of gay people is causing their population to decline. Furthermore, Europe's declining birth rate pre-dates its acceptance of gay people.
24
@19: Fertility rates decrease with the increase of per capita income. Moreover, France, the UK and Italy have seen a slight rebound, so it's less wintery than you think. Oh, and it's been a trend that started in the 60s. Extend the graphs you're looking at to the left a bit.
Cited causes for birth rate decreases include:
-Women working
-Less need for child labor
-Fewer kids dying in these countries
-Folks having less sex
-Family planning (incl. abstinence education)
Gay people? Nowhere to be seen. Oh drat.
Cited causes for birth rate decreases include:
-Women working
-Less need for child labor
-Fewer kids dying in these countries
-Folks having less sex
-Family planning (incl. abstinence education)
Gay people? Nowhere to be seen. Oh drat.
25
Statement by Mildred Loving who won the Supreme Court case that legalized interracial marriage in all 50 states.
"My generation was bitterly divided over something that should have been so clear and right. The majority believed that what the judge said, that it was God's plan to keep people apart, and that government should discriminate against people in love. But I have lived long enough now to see big changes. The older generation's fears and prejudices have given way, and today's young people realize that if someone loves someone, they have a right to marry.
Surrounded as I am now by wonderful children and grandchildren, not a day goes by that I don’t think of Richard and our love, our right to marry, and how much it meant to me to have that freedom to marry the person precious to me, even if others thought he was the 'wrong kind of person' for me to marry. I believe all Americans, no matter their race, no matter their sex, no matter their sexual orientation, should have that same freedom to marry. Government has no business imposing some people’s religious beliefs over others. Especially if it denies people's civil rights.
I am still not a political person, but I am proud that Richard's and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about."
"My generation was bitterly divided over something that should have been so clear and right. The majority believed that what the judge said, that it was God's plan to keep people apart, and that government should discriminate against people in love. But I have lived long enough now to see big changes. The older generation's fears and prejudices have given way, and today's young people realize that if someone loves someone, they have a right to marry.
Surrounded as I am now by wonderful children and grandchildren, not a day goes by that I don’t think of Richard and our love, our right to marry, and how much it meant to me to have that freedom to marry the person precious to me, even if others thought he was the 'wrong kind of person' for me to marry. I believe all Americans, no matter their race, no matter their sex, no matter their sexual orientation, should have that same freedom to marry. Government has no business imposing some people’s religious beliefs over others. Especially if it denies people's civil rights.
I am still not a political person, but I am proud that Richard's and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about."
28
I think it's wonderful that we are seeing more and more public support, especially since the numbers are also even better when you look at younger generations! I've gotta wonder how many of the anti-Civil Rights respondents in NJ have kids named Adolf Hitler. Joking aside, it's nice to see people realizing that acceptance is not the end of the world. I truly believe that as more and more states legalize gay marriage more and more people will realize that unless they are gay or have gay friends and family gay marriage really has nothing at all to do with them.
29
Great news. And hey, Dan, I gotta give you so much credit. You and others who have kept pushing, kept the topic hot, and who have not softened the basic message that everyone deserves equal treatment. So much more has been accomplished than many thought possible even a few months ago. You have certainly done your part to press the point and I admire you a great deal for it.
30
@ 5 "nothing about it on any other blogs or in newspapers or on the TV"
Dan
Isn't this also a sign of progress, showing that more and more straight people are coming to the middle ground --- they don't give a shit one way or the other, as most of them opposed it not too many years ago. It is also quite reasonable that they don't care, especially the ones that don't have gay friends and families.
So long as the ones that do care outnumber the bigots, and half of the don't-care people vote with us, then victory is ours
Dan
Isn't this also a sign of progress, showing that more and more straight people are coming to the middle ground --- they don't give a shit one way or the other, as most of them opposed it not too many years ago. It is also quite reasonable that they don't care, especially the ones that don't have gay friends and families.
So long as the ones that do care outnumber the bigots, and half of the don't-care people vote with us, then victory is ours
31
@30: I agree with your assessment, but I'd like to add that I think informal education of those who are anti-gay or just ambivalent (meaning person to person rather than through a media campaign) is a really big part of the reason we are winning. My dad is a good example of someone who started out as anti-gay, but after meeting and getting to know my homosexual friends he changed his stance. It's a lot harder to be anti-gay after you've met someone who is and seen that they are not actually out to destroy the world, kill religion, etc.
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