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News & ArtsWednesday, April 22, 2009
City Bus Bulbs?
Posted by Eli Sanders on Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 10:34 AM
They're coming to Pike and Pine Streets on Capitol Hill. But what the hell are they? Turns out they're giant, ovular ovoid (thanks, commenters!) sidewalk islands that shrink the street space, making it easier for buses to go about their on-loading and off-loading business.
All well and good, but Pike/Pine is also a huge bike corridor and this sounds like it could make the two-wheeled ride toward downtown on these streets even more of a crazy slalom.
1
nice inclusion of guitar player. Needs to remain accurate, after all.
As for bikes, shouldn't they be biking with regular car traffic anyway? Why would they be slaloming, unless they wanted to pull into the bus station?
As for bikes, shouldn't they be biking with regular car traffic anyway? Why would they be slaloming, unless they wanted to pull into the bus station?
2
This is ridiculous. Everyplace else in the world, they create bus PULLOUTS, so that while the bus is unloading and loading, other traffic (including other buses, like express routes) can continue on their way. This is exactly the opposite of what we ought to be doing.
3
@1: Agreed... It seems to me this would just push the sidewalk out into the area where cars are parked right now... Bikes would already be traveling outside of this area unless you have some sort of magical ghost bike that can pass through cars... In which case, where can I get me one of those?
5
@1 is right - the "renderings" on SDOT's site show that the bus bulbs extend only out as far as the parking lane does in the rest of the block. You shouldn't be weaving in and out of the parking lane anyway.
The traffic lanes are still 18 feet wide, plenty of space for cars, buses, and bikes to coexist happily.
The traffic lanes are still 18 feet wide, plenty of space for cars, buses, and bikes to coexist happily.
6
@2 - When the bus has to constantly pull in and out of traffic, it greatly slows the buses, because people don't yield to them (in violation of the law). On a really really busy transit corridor like Pike/Pine, it makes sense to me to prioritize bus speed. There are no express buses on those streets, last I checked.
Also, extending the sidewalks makes the crossing shorter and safer for pedestrians.
Also, extending the sidewalks makes the crossing shorter and safer for pedestrians.
7
To me it look like the island comes into the lane.
But even if its only where the cars are parked that forces the buss into the street/ bike lane instead of up against the sidewalk where it goes now. I think this is a horrible idea. Even without the bikers concern, its going to jam up the right lanes for traffic.
Seems like a waste of money and time.
But even if its only where the cars are parked that forces the buss into the street/ bike lane instead of up against the sidewalk where it goes now. I think this is a horrible idea. Even without the bikers concern, its going to jam up the right lanes for traffic.
Seems like a waste of money and time.
10
If any of you Capitol Hill folks ever made it up to the U-District, you'd see that they installed these on the Ave a few years back. As noted in a few of the comments above, these merely stick into the parking area and, unless you're an absolute idiot bicyclist who wants to die, don't at all affect the lane you'd be traveling in. If anything, they make bike riding safer because you never run the risk of colliding with a bus that didn't see you as it pulls back into a lane of traffic after pulling aside to make a stop.
11
@6 Maybe if the bus drivers weren't such assholes at times, people would yield to them more.
There have been buses who created new stops and ignored existing ones, backing up traffic, others who didn't pull over to the sidewalk at a stop, and even others who drive at 10mph.
Sometimes it has been all in the same bus.
...
This organization will not help an already congested traffic pattern. Shabadoo probably obeys the ECB-style rule of life: "punish people until they submit to my idealized lifestyle."
There have been buses who created new stops and ignored existing ones, backing up traffic, others who didn't pull over to the sidewalk at a stop, and even others who drive at 10mph.
Sometimes it has been all in the same bus.
...
This organization will not help an already congested traffic pattern. Shabadoo probably obeys the ECB-style rule of life: "punish people until they submit to my idealized lifestyle."
13
The buses will block traffic as the crippled and obese (really the same thing) slowly cram their fat bodies onto the bus. Hell, I am going to be mad if some 300 pound monstrosity needs the driver to unleash that forklift to move six inches from the sidewalk while I am stuck in rush hour traffic unable to get to happy hour in time.
14
@8 (I do hope you're joking, but just in case):
ov⋅u⋅lar [ov-yuh-ler, oh-vyuh-ler-]
–adjective: pertaining to or of the nature of an ovule.
Origin:
1850–55; NL ōvulāris. See ovule, -ar 1
ov⋅u⋅lar [ov-yuh-ler, oh-vyuh-ler-]
–adjective: pertaining to or of the nature of an ovule.
Origin:
1850–55; NL ōvulāris. See ovule, -ar 1
15
If some automobile drivers are complete assholes, can I ignore traffic laws related to them as well?
Yielding to buses isn't something you do because you're doing a favor to your friend the bus driver. It's the law.
Yielding to buses isn't something you do because you're doing a favor to your friend the bus driver. It's the law.
16
There's also one of these on 45th in Wallingford in front of Al's Tavern. The only drawback I see is idiot drivers not stopping behind the bus, instead passing on the left and plowing into a pedestrian crossing the street. To mitigate this on 45th an island was installed in the center turn lane.
17
@10 And if any of you assholes in the U-District drove, you'd know that the bus islands really clog traffic. That is what 15th is for. Pike and Pine don't really have a parallel traffic-positive alternative.
18
@11:
Maybe bus drivers wouldn't be such "assholes" if other vehicle drivers simply obeyed the law and allowed them back into traffic after pulling over.
Just a thought...
Maybe bus drivers wouldn't be such "assholes" if other vehicle drivers simply obeyed the law and allowed them back into traffic after pulling over.
Just a thought...
20
@15 So is driving slow in the left lane on the freeway, but I never see anything done to alleviate that bit of illegality.
Besides, you haven't refuted the claim that you want to punish all drivers so they won't drive anymore.
Besides, you haven't refuted the claim that you want to punish all drivers so they won't drive anymore.
22
@10 I live in the U-district and these islands only collect AVE RATS like potholes gather puddles, they don't add anything to the walking area. Also, the biking isn't any safer, when i ride i usually just get assholes trying to pass me only to be caught at the terribly timed stoplights. you can't get down the ave in any efficient manner. I really like riding pike/pine right now because it is really open and easy to maneuver.
24
So the bus fills the entire traffic lane while loading and unloading? That should be a fun wait for everyone behind them, not just bikers. Not that it's ever fun to pass pulled-over and stopped bus on the left, due to the bizarre signaling technique whereby the lights on a stopped bus look exactly like an about to merge left bus from the side.
In lower Manhattan, I think on Broadway in Soho, these have cuts to allow the bike lane to pass between them and the sidewalk. So straphangers wait, walkers walk, and bikers pass between the two.
In lower Manhattan, I think on Broadway in Soho, these have cuts to allow the bike lane to pass between them and the sidewalk. So straphangers wait, walkers walk, and bikers pass between the two.
27
I don't anticipate any issues. Without a bus there the bulb isn't an issue, and it's easy to get around the stopped buses even at bulbs. They still pull off to the right a bit leaving plenty of room for a bike.
Short of dedicated bus lanes there's not really a better solution. If they could do this to more routes they might turn buses into an option for clientele beyond the usual bums, cripples, insane, retarded, elderly, feeble and students.
Short of dedicated bus lanes there's not really a better solution. If they could do this to more routes they might turn buses into an option for clientele beyond the usual bums, cripples, insane, retarded, elderly, feeble and students.
28
So, on the scale of angry to angriest, we have:
Angry: Bus drivers, about the current state of transit in the city
Angrier: Car drivers, not sure if their commute will suck more
Angriest: Bike hobbyists, angry about EVERY.THING.IN.SEATTLE!!!!!
Angry: Bus drivers, about the current state of transit in the city
Angrier: Car drivers, not sure if their commute will suck more
Angriest: Bike hobbyists, angry about EVERY.THING.IN.SEATTLE!!!!!
29
it'll just make us ride like assholes, even more, blocking traffic, breaking laws of physics, scaring little girls/girl-y-men in the VW Golfs @ 4-way stops when we blow through head on. Fuck you. I love you.
31
I can't see how this won't slow everything down. This is the exact opposite of how busses are usually handled. This will encourage more traffic to move to Madison, which maybe isn't such a bad thing, but I don't see a real benefit to this.
32
In 2007, in King County, there were 170 deaths caused by automobiles. Most of these deaths were not caused by impairment (drunk driving, etc.). That same year, in King County, there were 76 deaths caused by homicide. Far more serious injury and impairment are caused by automobile drivers than by assault/attempted homicide.
Car drivers are still by far the #1 cause of death for people under 40 years old.
Car drivers are still by far the #1 cause of death for people under 40 years old.
33
Bikes squeezing past buses stopped at these things are committing the same offense that cars do elsewhere. Maybe there's room to get by, maybe not; but unpredictability is your enemy on a bike (any vehicle in traffic, really), and buses pulling away from these are the very definition of unpredictable. Cars will, of course, have to stop and wait, but realize also that BUSES will have to stop and wait, too, if there's more than one, or if the backup is long enough to reach back a few blocks. Which it is likely to do.
Which doesn't bother me much, I have to say. Traffic is the price you pay for being in the city. Traffic is a GOOD thing; it indicates high demand. Low traffic congestion indicates you're someplace nobody needs to go, or on the way there. I can show you plenty of mile-wide streets on the Eastside, sans bus bulbs, that are just as backed up as Pike/Pine, for much stupider reasons.
Bike slaloming for any reason is going to get you killed, by the way. Ride with traffic. You're a vehicle. And you're insanely vulnerable.
Which doesn't bother me much, I have to say. Traffic is the price you pay for being in the city. Traffic is a GOOD thing; it indicates high demand. Low traffic congestion indicates you're someplace nobody needs to go, or on the way there. I can show you plenty of mile-wide streets on the Eastside, sans bus bulbs, that are just as backed up as Pike/Pine, for much stupider reasons.
Bike slaloming for any reason is going to get you killed, by the way. Ride with traffic. You're a vehicle. And you're insanely vulnerable.
34
The Ave has been a mess for ages, long before those sidewalk islands showed up.
@14,
Of and pertaining to a plant ovum/seed? Okay, so "ovular" doesn't mean what Eli thinks it means.
@14,
Of and pertaining to a plant ovum/seed? Okay, so "ovular" doesn't mean what Eli thinks it means.
35
My experience with the Wallingford bulb is that it's completely idiotic and a traffic nightmare. A block or two of idling cars trapped behind a bus that's stopped dead in the travel lane is all it seems to have accomplished. If a bus can pull to the curb to load and unload passengers, why is bringing the curb out to the bus so helpful for loading and unloading? I don't see any advantages, only problems (and no, I've never seen a bus "trapped" for some interminable amount of time with all of its merges thwarted. It's called traffic, and we all merge all the time.)
37
I've seen similar sidewalk extensions work well other places. In Portland along the trolly lines some of the platforms have curb cuts fore and aft and bright yellow bike lanes continuing on the sidewalk to allow bikes to continue in their lane without having to cut over the tracks. Other places, the sidewalks are extended at the corners, not mid block, giving shorter crosswalk distances, better visibility for cars and pedestrians at intersections, and providing convenient bus boarding points. Corner bulbs only take up about a half a parking space, I think.
Bus pullouts theoretically require more than a bus length of space for a bus to be able to pull in all the way out of the driving lane and line up for a wheelchair ramp. Of course, they don't get that much space and end up pulling diagonally, which doesn't get them out of traffic or much closer to the curb. A bus bulb doesn't have to be that big, and means shorter pull in/out time which means quicker traffic flow.
Bus pullouts theoretically require more than a bus length of space for a bus to be able to pull in all the way out of the driving lane and line up for a wheelchair ramp. Of course, they don't get that much space and end up pulling diagonally, which doesn't get them out of traffic or much closer to the curb. A bus bulb doesn't have to be that big, and means shorter pull in/out time which means quicker traffic flow.
38
In-lane bus stops would be fine on one of the two proposed streets, but not both (it works fine on the Ave because cars and bikes both have Brooklyn and 15th as alternate routes).
39
@35, just because you claim to have never seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. You're wrong; merging back into traffic, especially on an already congested street, takes a huge amount of a bus's time. Slow buses = low ridership = more cars.
41
@38,
Currently, all buses turn off of Pike just two blocks north of Boren. So if there's any congestion, it'll mainly be on Pine.
Currently, all buses turn off of Pike just two blocks north of Boren. So if there's any congestion, it'll mainly be on Pine.
43
@33, Fnarf, we don't have to accept congestion as the price of a lively city. The City of London is doing just fine without craploads of cars, as would have been lower Manhattan if New York State hadn't idiotically shot down the Bloomberg administration's congestion pricing proposals.
44
Okay ace reporters, time to do your job...
Where's the city's report on traffic and/or safety improvements on corridors -- like on The Ave -- where bus bulbs have been in place for a while?
If the city can't site how they've improved in some way...OUR LIVES, then why are we gonna let them build more of them & in our very hood?
45
Pros and Cons of Bus Bulbs:
1. Forces cars to wait so that bus riders are just as fast as cars.
2. see 1.
3. see 1.
4. see 1.
Cons:
1. Drivers get frustrated waiting for bus - start taking bus instead.
2. see 1.
3. see 1.
4. see 1.
BUS BULBS FOR THE WIN!
1. Forces cars to wait so that bus riders are just as fast as cars.
2. see 1.
3. see 1.
4. see 1.
Cons:
1. Drivers get frustrated waiting for bus - start taking bus instead.
2. see 1.
3. see 1.
4. see 1.
BUS BULBS FOR THE WIN!
46
@43, if you think London's congestion charge has left that city "without craploads of cars", you're nuts. It's had an effect, but a small one, and the city is still chockablock. In fact, it's pretty much right where it was before they started it. And, of course, it has led to a massive amount of all-day parking in the area immediately surrounding the zone.
47
That's why they just bumped up income tax on rich people to 50 percent, Fnarf.
Next they'll get rid of the deduction for limo drivers.
Next they'll get rid of the deduction for limo drivers.
48
Most of our streets are too wide as it is. We CAN have more lanes with the asphalt we have now. But that's not quite the point.
Let's have a 20' sidewalk! Except for bus pull-outs!
That'd fucking civilize the place.
Let's have a 20' sidewalk! Except for bus pull-outs!
That'd fucking civilize the place.
49
I commute up and down pike/pine daily by bike and this is going to be terrible. The bus bulbs make it so that if a bus driver is not paying attention its splat. Thankfully the bus drivers in this city are amazing at watching out for me and I have mostly good things to say. However in years of commuting several times I have had buses pull into me as they move to the right to get to their stop. Its not their fault or mine but it happens and it's dangerous.
50
...
I have an award to give out!!!
Fnarf@49
YOU HAVE WON THE ECB AWARD OF THE DAY!!!
This award is given out for many reasons. Today's reason is the punishing of other people to force them to commit to a different ideology.
You may collect your award on the 520 Highway.
I have an award to give out!!!
Fnarf@49
YOU HAVE WON THE ECB AWARD OF THE DAY!!!
This award is given out for many reasons. Today's reason is the punishing of other people to force them to commit to a different ideology.
You may collect your award on the 520 Highway.
52
@46 I wrote City, not city. The City of London, as opposed to the vast conurbation, has had a large drop in car traffic under congestion pricing while remaining a vital, lively place (if you like stockbrokers, of course.)
53
bus bulbs also allow room for bus shelters and add to the sidewalk capacity; the sidewalks on Pine Street need the help. At that longitude, auto and bike traffic can shift to Pike Street where there no buses. Buses use Pike Street eastbound to Bellevue Avenue East.
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