Monday, April 20, 2009
News What, CNN?
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 6:19 AM
A CNN anchor just described the CIA torture memos—which were released by the Obama administration last week—as having been "leaked," and suggested that the "leak" could undermine the "work" being done by the CIA.
Uh... first of all, it wasn't a leak, CNN. And the kind of "work" described in the memos—torture, not "harsh interrogation techniques"—isn't being done by the CIA anymore. And here's hoping Obama reverses himself on investigating and prosecuting CIA agents who engaged in torture.
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2
I thought it was interesting to read that George Lucas doesn't believe that Dick Cheney is Darth Vader. He says Vader is the student; the real master is the Emperor. Therefore, Lucas says, Bush was Vader and Cheney was the Emperor.
And with any luck at all, we'll never have to take either one of them seriously ever again.
And with any luck at all, we'll never have to take either one of them seriously ever again.
3
@2, did anyone take bush seriously in the first place? i mean...i took the stupid shit he pulled seriously, but him?
wow, CNN...check your shit.
wow, CNN...check your shit.
4
@ 1 -- That's more fuku than haiku, but yeah, Obama is all that he ever said he was, policy-wise, which is ... not all that.
5
The CIA agents are pawns, or maybe knights, in the game.
The focus of the investigation should be the decision makers who formulated the policies and orders that the agents followed.
They should not be given immunity for "just following orders," but they should be offered immunity for their co-operation in the prosecution of their superiors.
The focus of the investigation should be the decision makers who formulated the policies and orders that the agents followed.
They should not be given immunity for "just following orders," but they should be offered immunity for their co-operation in the prosecution of their superiors.
7
Even if the Justice Department isn't doing it, what about a state Attorney General? Can he bring charges in federal court?
10
See, this is why this stuff needs to be pursued, and not just forgotten in some sort of bullshit "reconciliation". I would support an amnesty program IF AND ONLY IF it was accompanied by a full, and I mean really full, investigation and RELEASE OF INFORMATION. I want names. I want to know who did it, under whose orders.
That way the news media can't pull any of this "leak" shit, and the perpetrators can't say "we don't torture". Of course, thousands of people are being tortured across the country every day, but that's another discussion.
In particular, I want the names of any and all doctors and psychologists who participated in these activities to be revealed, and I want them to be de-licensed. James E. Mitchell and John Bruce Jessen, of Spokane? I'm talking to you. They're the Mengeles who ran the CIA's torture-teaching program.
That way the news media can't pull any of this "leak" shit, and the perpetrators can't say "we don't torture". Of course, thousands of people are being tortured across the country every day, but that's another discussion.
In particular, I want the names of any and all doctors and psychologists who participated in these activities to be revealed, and I want them to be de-licensed. James E. Mitchell and John Bruce Jessen, of Spokane? I'm talking to you. They're the Mengeles who ran the CIA's torture-teaching program.
11
I huddle in front of my PC
obsessing about trolls...I mutter darkly
'why can't I be clever and glib?!'
obsessing about trolls...I mutter darkly
'why can't I be clever and glib?!'
13
Oh Dan, it's always interesting when you get political. Yes, let's spend more federal resources prosecuting men and women who risked their lives for this country while serving under a commander in chief with unfortunate policies.
I thought we didn't bring personal moral issues into the workplace? I mean, if your prime example of catholic pharmacist selling contraceptives holds up, then why is this different? Geneva Convention higher than scripture?
I thought we didn't bring personal moral issues into the workplace? I mean, if your prime example of catholic pharmacist selling contraceptives holds up, then why is this different? Geneva Convention higher than scripture?
16
@13 & @14 - And state pharmacist licensing guidelines and regulations are "higher than scripture" too.
17
Dan: are you sure they weren't referring to a leak of information that was REDACTED in the original memos that were released? Or that "leaking" the names or information that was redacted would be what could be a "threat to national security?" It could harm future CIA work even if they "aren't doing this anymore" because it could reveal CIA agents or general operational information (remember Valerie Plame?)
I'm not letting CNN off the hook (as this sounds sloppy) but it is a possibility, no?
I'm not letting CNN off the hook (as this sounds sloppy) but it is a possibility, no?
19
When are these people going to understand what "separation of church and state" means? That it's not separation of non-Christian churches and our Christian state, but that it separates ALL church from state.
There are some lovely, sunny theocracies out there. Move to one!
There are some lovely, sunny theocracies out there. Move to one!
20
The memos were "released" in response to an ACLU lawsuit seeking their release, not because the Obama administration thought it was a neat idea to do so.
And Drew, who "risked their lives" by beating the crap out of prisoners in an undisclosed secure facility, or by drafting specious legal opinions in the comfort of their OLC offices?
And Drew, who "risked their lives" by beating the crap out of prisoners in an undisclosed secure facility, or by drafting specious legal opinions in the comfort of their OLC offices?
21
@ #13 You have the right to view scripture (wheather the bible or koran) as the highest authority, but in our secular nation they are not the highest authority. The first ten amendments to the U.S. Constitution trumps the Ten Commandments. That is why blasphemy is not a crime in America. Free Speech (First Amendmend) outweighs the Third Commandment. So Jesus fucking christ get used to it.
22
Hey, Drew, were those brave men and women risking their lives when they beat to death the hundreds of prisoners who died in our jails in Afghanistan and Iraq? Were the junior Mengeles from Mitchell Jessen & Associates in Spokane risking their lives when they were training torturers right there at White Bluffs, just west of Spokane? Were Charles Graner and Lynndie England risking their lives when they were abusing bound prisoners or the corpses of former prisoners?
24
Good Morning Dan,
I disagree. I don't want Pres. Obama to pursue prosecutions of CIA employees involved in these interrogations. I agree with him that nothing will be gained. I favor the disclosure of these memos. I don't care whether they were leaked or not. I don't favor waterboarding but this Wall Street Journal editorial has a point:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12401866…
I disagree. I don't want Pres. Obama to pursue prosecutions of CIA employees involved in these interrogations. I agree with him that nothing will be gained. I favor the disclosure of these memos. I don't care whether they were leaked or not. I don't favor waterboarding but this Wall Street Journal editorial has a point:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12401866…
25
So, if waterboarding someone didn't work the first 100 times ... why did the War Criminals think it would work 166 times?
I mean, seriously?
Are they that stupid?
What works - interrogation by someone friendly who bonds with the prisoner.
I mean, seriously?
Are they that stupid?
What works - interrogation by someone friendly who bonds with the prisoner.
26
@24, are you fucking kidding? They authors of that article are pro-torture, full stop.
I also do not support prosecution, but rather full investigation with conclusions and NAMES.
You do realize that there will be another Republican administration someday, and that all of these thugs and perverts will be right back in their jobs doing the same shit if we don't stop them?
I also do not support prosecution, but rather full investigation with conclusions and NAMES.
You do realize that there will be another Republican administration someday, and that all of these thugs and perverts will be right back in their jobs doing the same shit if we don't stop them?
27
ICC for all the architects, including John Yoo and Comrade Cheney.
But the agents? Sadly, they thought they were legal orders, so just lock them up for 90 days each to remind them that war crimes have no excuse - ever.
But the agents? Sadly, they thought they were legal orders, so just lock them up for 90 days each to remind them that war crimes have no excuse - ever.
28
If Bush and his minion aren't going to punished for war crimes why should CIA officials acting under that regime be charged?
29
There's a difference between "following orders" that are clearly illegal and "following orders" that the Office of Legal Council says are legal.
I'm okay with not prosecuting most of the people who were just doing as directed by the OLC memos, but I really hope we prosecute the people who wrote those memos and those who directed the memos be written to justify torture.
I'm okay with not prosecuting most of the people who were just doing as directed by the OLC memos, but I really hope we prosecute the people who wrote those memos and those who directed the memos be written to justify torture.
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