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News & ArtsThursday, April 16, 2009
Politics The Torture Memos
Posted by Eli Sanders on Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 4:05 PM
They're out, along with a pledge from President Obama that his administration will not prosecute the CIA officers who carried out the acts these documents allowed—acts like water-boarding and "insects placed in a confinement box."
As always, Andrew Sullivan is worth reading for the damning summation:
This is what Hannah Arendt wrote of when she talked of the banality of evil. To read a bureaucrat finding ways to describe and parse away the clear infliction of torture on a terror suspect well outside any "ticking time bomb" scenario is to realize what so many of us feared and sensed from the shards of information we have been piecing together for years. It is all true. These memos form a coda to the Red Cross report, confirming its evidentiary conclusions, while finding exquisite, legalistic and preposterous ways to deny the obvious.I do not believe that any American president has ever orchestrated, constructed or so closely monitored the torture of other human beings the way George W. Bush did.
1
Sullivan is also dead on target with his call for every single doctor and psychiatrist who participated in this evil to be identified, shamed, and delicensed. The Torture Doctors are Mengeles in our midst.
2
So American government agents can kidnap and torture (sometimes to death) virtually anyone, and not only will they never be held accountable for their crimes, the government will use taxpayer dollars to fund their defense for violating both US and International Law.
Also, we only have Obama’s and Holder’s word that these programs have been discontinued, and even if they’re still going on, so what? No one will ever be held accountable for their actions by the (Obstruction of) Justice Department.
‘Scuse me while I go throw up. Heckuva job, Barry!
Also, we only have Obama’s and Holder’s word that these programs have been discontinued, and even if they’re still going on, so what? No one will ever be held accountable for their actions by the (Obstruction of) Justice Department.
‘Scuse me while I go throw up. Heckuva job, Barry!
3
Eli,
I disagree with Sullivan. Way too heavy handed. The release of these memos is a good omen. I agree with President Obama and CIA Director Panetta to prohibit prosecution. It is now water under the bridge.
I disagree with Sullivan. Way too heavy handed. The release of these memos is a good omen. I agree with President Obama and CIA Director Panetta to prohibit prosecution. It is now water under the bridge.
5
Water under the bridge. Yeah. Until the next Republican President gets into office. We need to make an example of these fuckers so that nobody ever even thinks about doing this again. Jesus, hanging's too good for them.
7
@ 3,
So commit war crimes and get away with it? You're right, it'd be rude to mention it.
Meanwhile, if ordinary Americans smoke a j, they can prepare to have their lives ruined forever and ever.
This country is so, so FUBAR.
So commit war crimes and get away with it? You're right, it'd be rude to mention it.
Meanwhile, if ordinary Americans smoke a j, they can prepare to have their lives ruined forever and ever.
This country is so, so FUBAR.
8
Bankrupted your company?
Here's a trillion dollars! Don't spend it all in one place!
Kidnapped and tortured innocent people, including kids?
Here's your fucking Medal of Honor!
Jumpin' Jeepers, the US is a perverse anti-meritocracy.
Here's a trillion dollars! Don't spend it all in one place!
Kidnapped and tortured innocent people, including kids?
Here's your fucking Medal of Honor!
Jumpin' Jeepers, the US is a perverse anti-meritocracy.
9
@4 - No shit, I'm waiting to see if some country will try to pull off an international kidnapping like the Israelis did with eichmann from argentina.
10
Everyone involved with the torture, from the top to the bottom, should spend a long time in a small prison cell. Of course, that'll never happen.
America! Fuck yeah!
America! Fuck yeah!
12
@3, Sweet.
Jail and sex offender registry for teenagers sexting. But torture? Nah, don't bother. Water under the bridge.
Sounds fair to me.
Jail and sex offender registry for teenagers sexting. But torture? Nah, don't bother. Water under the bridge.
Sounds fair to me.
13
Andrew Sullivan is never worth reading, unless you're talking about his personal ads from a few years back. Those have some comic value, at least.
14
Oh come on. Most people, especially if they're not black, can look forward to getting ticketed if they're caught smoking a joint.
And, Fnarf, of course, is right.
Meanwhile, if ordinary Americans smoke a j, they can prepare to have their lives ruined forever and ever.
Oh come on. Most people, especially if they're not black, can look forward to getting ticketed if they're caught smoking a joint.
And, Fnarf, of course, is right.
15
Obama is really disappointing on this. There's got to be some avenue for prosecutions. If not the Department of Justice, what about claims in civil courts for damages?
Spain passed on prosecutions, too, using logic that if applied consistently would have bounced the Pinochet case. I guess if you're the world's biggest military power you can do whatever you want and no one calls you on your shit.
Spain passed on prosecutions, too, using logic that if applied consistently would have bounced the Pinochet case. I guess if you're the world's biggest military power you can do whatever you want and no one calls you on your shit.
16
I agree with lark, no crime that took place in the past should ever be prosecuted. For example, I held up several 7-11s last week, but that's water under the bridge now.
18
I confess, I usually chime in to a story like this with some mock Liberal outrage and sign off as "I thought Obama would be better than this" just to get a rise out of the regular clowns.
But seriously, this GOP Conservative has to say that Obama has been a big surprise and in a good way.
I can hardly wait to see who Obama appoints to the Supreme Court, I expect to be pleasantly surprised.
But seriously, this GOP Conservative has to say that Obama has been a big surprise and in a good way.
I can hardly wait to see who Obama appoints to the Supreme Court, I expect to be pleasantly surprised.
21
This is Obama giving torturers a pass. If you think everyone who participated in the torture deserves punishment that would include Obama now, too. He's an enabler. He's giving them the same defense many NAZIS used -- "gee they passed a law, saying what was illegal, is actually legal!"
Every future torturer in the USA (likely future GOP administrations) and elsewhere will now be able to say "Look, even Obama was okay with it -- if you have a memo saying it's legal, it's not a crime!"
this is horribly, awful, and morally disgusting.
And any former editor of the harvard law review knows exactly what they are doing, too.
Guess we'll have to call it the Bush-Obama doctrine now -- waterboarding is okay, if you have a memo saying waterboarding is okay; USA has no special moral standing in the world and lines up on side of torturers.
Fracking fracked up.
Every future torturer in the USA (likely future GOP administrations) and elsewhere will now be able to say "Look, even Obama was okay with it -- if you have a memo saying it's legal, it's not a crime!"
this is horribly, awful, and morally disgusting.
And any former editor of the harvard law review knows exactly what they are doing, too.
Guess we'll have to call it the Bush-Obama doctrine now -- waterboarding is okay, if you have a memo saying waterboarding is okay; USA has no special moral standing in the world and lines up on side of torturers.
Fracking fracked up.
22
I'm not a lawyer, but I've got a feeling this is a huge mistake. The question is whether they will suffer for it down the road. He should have just recused himself of the whole situation and brought in people from the Hague to tackle this issue. Judges do that kind of shit all the time, just say you've got a conflict of interest and step aside, you'd think a lawyer like Obama would know that.
23
It must be terrible to be so clueless about the real world.
Obama isn't going to change much.
And there's not really an Easter Bunny.
And Santa was your parents.
Obama isn't going to change much.
And there's not really an Easter Bunny.
And Santa was your parents.
25
I'm okay with not trying the toturers on American soil - that would drive the conserva-nuts into a frenzy. But hopefully the Hague will pick up on all this Freedom of Information stuff and try Bush and Cheney - even if they have to do in absentia. Those guys deserve to be labeled war-criminals.
27
I point out that Sullivan was originally a HUGE Bush supporter, particularly through the 2000 Florida recount fiasco. I think he's a wack-job.
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