Slog
News & ArtsThursday, April 16, 2009
Media A Comment from COMTE
Posted by Dominic Holden on Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 10:42 AM
Regular Slog commenter COMTE has an idea:
I want to pitch a new reality show to some network (FOX seems the obvious choice), I'll call it "Independence Day" or some other catchy, but otherwise nonsensical title.
The premise is simple: a demographic cross-section of these "gubamint iz EVIL ('cept when it's OUR guys running it)" types, are thrown into a house together; let's say a dozen of them, just to mix things up. It'll be sort of like a Big Brother set-up, and they can rant on-camera to each other to their hearts' content about how fucked up the gubamint is, and whatever.
The sweetener is that they get to go to their regular jobs - assuming they have one - earn their regular paychecks and keep 100% of the money; they won't pay a PENNY in taxes to any municipal, county, state or federal government (the show will, naturally cover these on behalf of the contestants). Cameras will follow them around wherever they go, to capture their newly independent lifestyles, freed from the chains of corrupt, runaway government taxation.
The catch is, they also don't get ANY of the services those governments provide. No garbage pick up, no street cleaning, no 911, no electricity, no water, no gas, no license renewals, no Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid benefits (aside from an amount based on what they actually put into those programs) - in short, nothing they aren't willing to pay for themselves out of their own earnings for the duration of their participation in the program.
The rest of COMTE's excellent comment after the jump. Photo is of Deborah Miller, who is "so afraid of what Obama is doing."
The winner will be the one who can last the longest, and they'll get an amount equal to the total taxes that would have been paid by all the contestants for the cumulative time they participated - I figure that'll work out to maybe five or six thou' max depending on the income ranges of the various contestants.I'm thinking summer replacement series, because I can't imagine it going more than maybe 10 - 12 weeks at the most.
Posted by COMTE on April 15, 2009 at 8:50 PM
3
I'd watch it.
I'd also recommend it be viewed with drinking games.
For example, anytime someone reminds the world what the president's middle name is: Drink.
I'd also recommend it be viewed with drinking games.
For example, anytime someone reminds the world what the president's middle name is: Drink.
4
I think it's a fantastic idea. Although, "no street cleaning"? How about no streets at all, unless the contestants build/pay for them directly out of their own cash?
5
The woman who started the Tea Party movement could join! Oh, right, she doesn't pay taxes and depends heavily upon federal assistance. Oops.
6
This has to actually happen. Let's not forget that they can't send their kids to public school, either. Assuming they're not already home schooled.
7
"Your Name Here" - blissfully ignorant about regular jobs
What? You have a different idea? Care to back that up at all? Have any numbers?
No? Just another knee-jerk union-bashing comment?
What is your point? That only people in unions have jobs now? Or that there are no "regular" jobs?
What is it?
What? You have a different idea? Care to back that up at all? Have any numbers?
No? Just another knee-jerk union-bashing comment?
What is your point? That only people in unions have jobs now? Or that there are no "regular" jobs?
What is it?
8
To really give the real no nanny state, this show should be filmed an set in, say, Somalia. Why fake the state-less existence when you can just use the real deal....
9
Lily's right-but they get to use electricity, gas, water, and other utilities, as long as they pay the current market value for them. Make them pay tolls for all the driving they do on any roads, or the full market cost of any public transportation they take. Libertarian Survivors, FTW!
10
Golob, you're diabolical. We can get Mike Rowe to narrate when they turn to piracy, and do a spin-off 'Deadliest Swashbucklers' series!
14
Those who depend on federal medical assistance would also have the further test of having to live on the Masai Mara with no outside assistance.
Tax free, the way to be!
Tax free, the way to be!
15
You could drop 'em in Somalia with whatever they wanted, short of biological or nuclear weapons.
Seriously - gear 'em up and set 'em loose in the dream that is life with no laws.
Or we could try the local version where local counties only get the money that they contribute in state taxes. King County would be fine. All the conservative "red" counties would be fucked.
Let's make a reality show out of state government and use the revenue to offset the budget shortfalls.
Seriously - gear 'em up and set 'em loose in the dream that is life with no laws.
Or we could try the local version where local counties only get the money that they contribute in state taxes. King County would be fine. All the conservative "red" counties would be fucked.
Let's make a reality show out of state government and use the revenue to offset the budget shortfalls.
16
Christ, what a genius idea.
Bonus points if the house is in the middle of a non-white neighborhood.
Bonus points if the house is in the middle of a non-white neighborhood.
17
The luckiest among them would be captured and ransomed by the pirates.
I suspect the majority would be dead in short order from parasitic disease and unclean drinking water. Hell, diarrhea alone will fell a good chunk within 72 hours.
Such things tend to change minds about public health funding. (Remember, the Southeastern US had an endemic form of Malaria until the evil government and public health docs eradicated it.)
I suspect the majority would be dead in short order from parasitic disease and unclean drinking water. Hell, diarrhea alone will fell a good chunk within 72 hours.
Such things tend to change minds about public health funding. (Remember, the Southeastern US had an endemic form of Malaria until the evil government and public health docs eradicated it.)
18
@8, right. They can't drive on STREETS to their jobs; they can't drive at all, since their cars were built with tax breaks, or imported through Exim Bank programs, passed by customs, etc. Virtually all of their belongings did too -- no clothes or electronics for you! Also, their brains, should such prove to exist, would have to be wiped of all memories of successful, accomplished people working in a modern state's economy. And of course the very freedom to not get shot by bandits comes from US military protection. Somalia sounds about right. Or airlift them into Waziristan, naked, clutching small US flags.
20
They also cannot call the police when they are in trouble (and they should have to serve in the military with no pay). They shouldn't be allowed to use the roads, schools, emergency rooms or fire stations without paying up front.
21
At the very least, Comte, film a satirical fake pilot and put it up on youtube. It is sure to earn you several baziillion theoretical dollars!!!
22
John Galt: Wouldn't that be delicious.
An anti-tax American survivalist, dropped armed to the teeth into the Somalian wilderness, dead within four days from diarrhea.
For many of the diseases rampant in weak-state or no-state regions of the world, there is no effective treatment or preventative measure. For a good chunk of the parasitic diseases, pentavalent antimonials are the state of the art therapy. Basically, it's the modern version of the pre-antibiotic mercury treatment for syphillis. Deadly, painful, and essentially ineffectual.
An anti-tax American survivalist, dropped armed to the teeth into the Somalian wilderness, dead within four days from diarrhea.
For many of the diseases rampant in weak-state or no-state regions of the world, there is no effective treatment or preventative measure. For a good chunk of the parasitic diseases, pentavalent antimonials are the state of the art therapy. Basically, it's the modern version of the pre-antibiotic mercury treatment for syphillis. Deadly, painful, and essentially ineffectual.
23
Somalia would work out just fine. Or maybe Charles could let them use his house in Zimbabwe - they're almost equally as fucked right now.
24
I'd love to see this on SciFi as a game show, where hit squads show up and gun down people who avoid taxes or steal.
25
Golob, pooping themselves to death seems somehow fitting, doesn't it?
Fnarf-I think with some judicious calculator work, you could work out 'true cost' on a lot of things. If it were possible, they should be allowed to drive, consume and wear whatever they like, and be compensated for the extra costs associated with the customs fees, etc. It's most interesting when played as fair as possible.
Fnarf-I think with some judicious calculator work, you could work out 'true cost' on a lot of things. If it were possible, they should be allowed to drive, consume and wear whatever they like, and be compensated for the extra costs associated with the customs fees, etc. It's most interesting when played as fair as possible.
26
Another problem: They couldn't go to most hospitals, because hospitals accept a variety of federal subsidies for care that are used to reduce prices.
Comte, you're brilliant.
My take is that I want this reality show to be a country (preferably an island) where a few million people sign up for the "show."
We all remember the sci-fi story March of the Morons, right?
Comte, you're brilliant.
My take is that I want this reality show to be a country (preferably an island) where a few million people sign up for the "show."
We all remember the sci-fi story March of the Morons, right?
27
@26-
Just factor those costs in-or make them go to private clinics. But remember-you have to compensate for any taxes their service providers have to pay too. Wonder how copyright and intellectual property rights factor into everything...
Just factor those costs in-or make them go to private clinics. But remember-you have to compensate for any taxes their service providers have to pay too. Wonder how copyright and intellectual property rights factor into everything...
28
Brilliant. Fuckin' A. Who's got cell numbers of network insiders? Say, HBO or CNN just to get the ball rolling? Anybody?
29
No, let them use water, roads, electrcity, etc., only make them pay extra for the tax-subsidized portion. Road taxes would calculated by dividing the cost of the road by the average traffic count, then divide the result by 365 [you'd get about a buck a mile].
Clean water and food would have the extra cost of processing and inspection figured in.
No fire prtotection and no police protection and one of the 'challenges' must be a robbery, assault or fire in their residence.
The pot should be the cost of all the tax subsidies [for a year] for the average American times the number of people in the house.
Clean water and food would have the extra cost of processing and inspection figured in.
No fire prtotection and no police protection and one of the 'challenges' must be a robbery, assault or fire in their residence.
The pot should be the cost of all the tax subsidies [for a year] for the average American times the number of people in the house.
30
Of course they should be encouraged to to exercise their 2nd amendment right to bear arms... The more guns in this loveshack, the better.
31
Excellent article in NYT science section this week showing all animals share food, ie, have taxes, same with early human hunter gatherers and that their effective tax rate was more than 50%. IOW when you brought down that mastodon most of it went to the tribe. We've always been socialists, that's the normal state iow.
Maybe we should accept the right wing/Mudede redefinition of socialism to mean simply progressive taxation, and come out and say fuck y'all we're socialists.
Maybe we should accept the right wing/Mudede redefinition of socialism to mean simply progressive taxation, and come out and say fuck y'all we're socialists.
32
And speaking of Fox News served up cold....
Did you know that before FoX news was in Florida in 2000 you could find the same circulation in a Nov. 1st edition of The Seattle Times...?
There in other stories of interest like the ones printed here in
" The Stranger(!) Seattles ONLY Newspaper "
The bhagwan's day in court was a "charge" DISMISSED!!!!
Notice the capitalization case sensitve part!!!
...and another thing of interest to bedded journalists everywhere, that was a decision rendered by a Magistrate named Barbara Delaney no less!!!!
It's true, look it up in a micro-fish!
It's even more relevant when you consider the "text" direct-ins and commentary by DOM....
....old mixster the HOLD!!!
get it?
Ya that's right,
there was also a story on Nov. 1st 1981, about a black volkswagon rabbit truck near I-5 and the shot down U.S plane in a SDI "star Wars" item...
And further more, just like a license renewal request that containes the here-in the stirringly deep embedded dream by good ol' domi...
a recipe.
Jack Lemmon and Macaroni is LIMP!!!!
It's true... a day in the sun is worth the race to the local micro-fish machine in a library near you soon!!!!
Other Stories that may be of similar related interest to futurists looking through the seeing eye glass of this SLOG are, headlines like
"Vitamin E may prompt Murder Charge" !!!
and more cross refer-fences like,
Elderly Couple "may" be missing in
'slide debris'.
( secret... that's the November second follow up tell 'em and weep lead)
Oh yes!!!
Mr. cleaver... tell the ward that Mrs. Beaver was an "Ivy Lee Kelly's five year old " !!!
...and then run right over to the t.v. section and see how they use to print
'NIGHT FINAL' next to the commemorative
ELVIS NIGHT SPECIAL 'IT"S A HIT' SECTIONAL COUCH ad when you see Lucia and Gore in Opera!!!
Why???
Because silly.... the Kidnapper may have killed "self"!
Isn't that good grammer for a newspaper????
That's why I think The Stranger is the best of the best sir!!!
And another another thing...
James V. Miller by Carlton Smith was survived by Svein Gilje, a union leader who fought for survival of a leaders death.
Exemplary work dectectives and friends of Astronuats for Playboys and Ex Navy George Sawyers' from South Africa.
And in the finally but not leastly catagory...
A judge refused to block social security in a U.S. District Court botha case .. a Hogan wrestling story no less Thomas...
Silly doubter of all things old fashioned and dingy...
If you look carefully, anf mind you that's a really big if...
you might see a signature by
Elliot Richardson the Attorney G.
general himself.
The bad news... Wallace was diagnosed with a polyp and had to have it removed.
Double exemplary work Chief Terry Mangan by not providing the name of the girl on the editorial page!
Oh ya, and in closing the day after tax day I tell you this is really relevant...
The 'tips for the IRS department' concluded in the report that there was $213,063.38 in the
" mistake corrections log of 101 thoughts from dummies who work to hard " , Sheila's like
Vaughn "the easy lover" Evans and old medical advance technique que quantifier Adam Brown.
More...
Did you know that before FoX news was in Florida in 2000 you could find the same circulation in a Nov. 1st edition of The Seattle Times...?
There in other stories of interest like the ones printed here in
" The Stranger(!) Seattles ONLY Newspaper "
The bhagwan's day in court was a "charge" DISMISSED!!!!
Notice the capitalization case sensitve part!!!
...and another thing of interest to bedded journalists everywhere, that was a decision rendered by a Magistrate named Barbara Delaney no less!!!!
It's true, look it up in a micro-fish!
It's even more relevant when you consider the "text" direct-ins and commentary by DOM....
....old mixster the HOLD!!!
get it?
Ya that's right,
there was also a story on Nov. 1st 1981, about a black volkswagon rabbit truck near I-5 and the shot down U.S plane in a SDI "star Wars" item...
And further more, just like a license renewal request that containes the here-in the stirringly deep embedded dream by good ol' domi...
a recipe.
Jack Lemmon and Macaroni is LIMP!!!!
It's true... a day in the sun is worth the race to the local micro-fish machine in a library near you soon!!!!
Other Stories that may be of similar related interest to futurists looking through the seeing eye glass of this SLOG are, headlines like
"Vitamin E may prompt Murder Charge" !!!
and more cross refer-fences like,
Elderly Couple "may" be missing in
'slide debris'.
( secret... that's the November second follow up tell 'em and weep lead)
Oh yes!!!
Mr. cleaver... tell the ward that Mrs. Beaver was an "Ivy Lee Kelly's five year old " !!!
...and then run right over to the t.v. section and see how they use to print
'NIGHT FINAL' next to the commemorative
ELVIS NIGHT SPECIAL 'IT"S A HIT' SECTIONAL COUCH ad when you see Lucia and Gore in Opera!!!
Why???
Because silly.... the Kidnapper may have killed "self"!
Isn't that good grammer for a newspaper????
That's why I think The Stranger is the best of the best sir!!!
And another another thing...
James V. Miller by Carlton Smith was survived by Svein Gilje, a union leader who fought for survival of a leaders death.
Exemplary work dectectives and friends of Astronuats for Playboys and Ex Navy George Sawyers' from South Africa.
And in the finally but not leastly catagory...
A judge refused to block social security in a U.S. District Court botha case .. a Hogan wrestling story no less Thomas...
Silly doubter of all things old fashioned and dingy...
If you look carefully, anf mind you that's a really big if...
you might see a signature by
Elliot Richardson the Attorney G.
general himself.
The bad news... Wallace was diagnosed with a polyp and had to have it removed.
Double exemplary work Chief Terry Mangan by not providing the name of the girl on the editorial page!
Oh ya, and in closing the day after tax day I tell you this is really relevant...
The 'tips for the IRS department' concluded in the report that there was $213,063.38 in the
" mistake corrections log of 101 thoughts from dummies who work to hard " , Sheila's like
Vaughn "the easy lover" Evans and old medical advance technique que quantifier Adam Brown.
33
@32: And if you play this message backward, Lord Basil and John Bailo will start chanting some satanic message about Amanda Knox.
34
No public parks or public libraries for the teabaggers, either. Nor broadcast TV - those are the public airwaves, folks. Pay for your services, slackers!
35
I'm sorry, but ALL of the costs of roads, etc., come from taxes. And other services -- it's not about the cost, it's about the availability. Without a modern economy, virtually nothing that you have would be possible. And a modern economy is impossible without a modern state. You get nothing. Nothing but baked earth.
36
not to defend these crazies or imply they are being idiotic, but there is a difference between someone saying they want fewer/different government services and someone saying they want no government services. or do these loons say they want no taxes? that, and, it's a funny concept, but it would make for a boring show. but i know it's a just a joke... i shouldn't rain on this parade!
38
@36: Infrequent
This isn't a intellectual response we're having here. You cannot have a debate about the merits of fiscal policy with someone who equates a tax-cut (which is what most of them will be receiving) with "Fascism!"
There's no debate - that is not a coherent statement, and no coherent response is possible.
That being said, summarizing their position as wanting "no government" might be a fair. If you honestly feel that in the wake of the last 20 years of financial collapses - starting with the S&Ls in the 80s - what we need is not more regulation of the financial markets but further tax-cuts for the top 5% - when exactly is "tax cut" NOT going to be your answer to any economic dilemma?
This isn't a intellectual response we're having here. You cannot have a debate about the merits of fiscal policy with someone who equates a tax-cut (which is what most of them will be receiving) with "Fascism!"
There's no debate - that is not a coherent statement, and no coherent response is possible.
That being said, summarizing their position as wanting "no government" might be a fair. If you honestly feel that in the wake of the last 20 years of financial collapses - starting with the S&Ls in the 80s - what we need is not more regulation of the financial markets but further tax-cuts for the top 5% - when exactly is "tax cut" NOT going to be your answer to any economic dilemma?
40
It's a clever idea. Would probably get some good laughs mainly for the off the cuff libertard/anarchist ramblings about black helicopters and AIDS and the Illuminati.
My only qualm is that you've taken people who are essentially idealist libertarians, rebated their taxes and challenged them to live the libertarian lifestyle, while at the same time denied them of the infrastructure of private enterprise that libertarians theorize would spring up in the absence of a large state.
For example, some of you suggest not letting them use roads, fire, or ambulance, at all. In a functioning libertarian society (assuming this is possible) there would be a large infrastructure of private toll roads, security guards, and private hospitals that they could utilize.
Consider the converse TV show: in a libertarian society where all roads are private toll roads, you take idealist socialists and put them in a house, jack their taxes, and challenge them to use that awesome socialist infrastructure of public roads, schools, and ambulance instead of the capitalist toll/fee infrastructure. It's a total setup because there is no such infrastructure.
One solution is to drop them in a country that is reasonably developed but does not have a strong state presence, with the skills and employability to be in the "upper class" of that society and left to pay private enterprises for security, education, medical care.
The other solution is exactly as COMTE described, allowing them to use public roads and hospitals, except you estimate what the costs would be for private enterprise ($1/mile toll, $150 doctors visit, etc) and charge them that, begging the question "how do you estimate cost of toll roads in a free market scenario?" This just opens up your contestants to nitpick every cost and claim that it wouldn't really be THAT much IF we were REALLY libertardian. If you decide on all the prices beforehand and effectively show that libertarianism is cheaper/more expensive than socialism, you've bypassed the entire point of the show, no?
You either need the real deal or it doesn't work.
More...
My only qualm is that you've taken people who are essentially idealist libertarians, rebated their taxes and challenged them to live the libertarian lifestyle, while at the same time denied them of the infrastructure of private enterprise that libertarians theorize would spring up in the absence of a large state.
For example, some of you suggest not letting them use roads, fire, or ambulance, at all. In a functioning libertarian society (assuming this is possible) there would be a large infrastructure of private toll roads, security guards, and private hospitals that they could utilize.
Consider the converse TV show: in a libertarian society where all roads are private toll roads, you take idealist socialists and put them in a house, jack their taxes, and challenge them to use that awesome socialist infrastructure of public roads, schools, and ambulance instead of the capitalist toll/fee infrastructure. It's a total setup because there is no such infrastructure.
One solution is to drop them in a country that is reasonably developed but does not have a strong state presence, with the skills and employability to be in the "upper class" of that society and left to pay private enterprises for security, education, medical care.
The other solution is exactly as COMTE described, allowing them to use public roads and hospitals, except you estimate what the costs would be for private enterprise ($1/mile toll, $150 doctors visit, etc) and charge them that, begging the question "how do you estimate cost of toll roads in a free market scenario?" This just opens up your contestants to nitpick every cost and claim that it wouldn't really be THAT much IF we were REALLY libertardian. If you decide on all the prices beforehand and effectively show that libertarianism is cheaper/more expensive than socialism, you've bypassed the entire point of the show, no?
You either need the real deal or it doesn't work.
41
The same people who rant about their taxes have elected people that cost us the price of saving AIG, and the medical catastrophe that is costing us more that any nation on earth. These same people are the ones that want "less government" have forced a bigger government effort to correct all the mistakes the fools they elected have made.
42
@2:
My presumption, based on the apparent average age of the tea-baggers, is that a number of the contestants would be retired...
My presumption, based on the apparent average age of the tea-baggers, is that a number of the contestants would be retired...
43
someone start the slow clap for Comte. Well played, sir.
There are a number of Youtube troops full of actors and directors dying for awesome material. Please connect with them immediately, or go straight for the gold and sell this to Comedy Central.
There are a number of Youtube troops full of actors and directors dying for awesome material. Please connect with them immediately, or go straight for the gold and sell this to Comedy Central.
44
Well, that wasn't nearly as bad as I anticipated - thanks mainly to you regulars!
*Puts Nomex suit back in closet*
Just a couple of points of clarification:
I sort of meant for the "no 911" reference to include all first-responder type services: police, fire & medical/ER. And I was willing to not go to too much of an extreme in some areas, such as not driving on roads, since these already exist, and the contestants presumably have already (begrudgingly one presumes) paid their portion of the vehicle excise taxes to cover them.
And "no services" doesn't mean the contestants couldn't decide to make use of them, but they would have to pay going market-rates sans any public subsidies, the idea being of course that they would rather quickly discover the TRUE costs of these services if they had to pay 100% out-of-pocket.
I rather like the idea of doing this as a YouTube parody, and I may have to give that some serious consideration. Otherwise, thanks for all the suggestions, and to Dominic for fomenting the discussion.
*Puts Nomex suit back in closet*
Just a couple of points of clarification:
I sort of meant for the "no 911" reference to include all first-responder type services: police, fire & medical/ER. And I was willing to not go to too much of an extreme in some areas, such as not driving on roads, since these already exist, and the contestants presumably have already (begrudgingly one presumes) paid their portion of the vehicle excise taxes to cover them.
And "no services" doesn't mean the contestants couldn't decide to make use of them, but they would have to pay going market-rates sans any public subsidies, the idea being of course that they would rather quickly discover the TRUE costs of these services if they had to pay 100% out-of-pocket.
I rather like the idea of doing this as a YouTube parody, and I may have to give that some serious consideration. Otherwise, thanks for all the suggestions, and to Dominic for fomenting the discussion.
45
It would be sort of like living in Seattle when a quarter inch of snow falls, no bus service, no roads cleared...
46
As long as we're picking them up and dropping them somewhere, why not cut out the drama and make it the middle of the ocean? Not as good TV, but it makes me happy.
47
"No garbage pick up, no street cleaning, no 911, no electricity, no water, no gas, no license renewals, no Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid benefits"
shit, they wouldn't get streets...also, no police, they would have to arm and defend themseleves...which they might like.
shit, they wouldn't get streets...also, no police, they would have to arm and defend themseleves...which they might like.
48
This is only the start, my hopelessly clueless leftist friends. The conservatives are coming out of the closet, and the leftists in Congress will find themselves with a Titantic defeat that would make 1994 looks like a walk in the park, and Barack Hussein Obama will be sent packing back to Kenya where he came from.
I am so proud of the 300,000 Americans who came out to protest yesterday, because it shows me that there are still people who care about freedom, and the America I put my life on the line for in Vietnam.
Watch out, libbies, freedom is on the march!
I am so proud of the 300,000 Americans who came out to protest yesterday, because it shows me that there are still people who care about freedom, and the America I put my life on the line for in Vietnam.
Watch out, libbies, freedom is on the march!
51
Hm, that would be rather ironic @49: a bunch of right-wing authoritarian anti-tax conservatives emulating a bunch of left-wing anarcho-socialist anti-authoritarian liberals.
Although I'm guessing they wouldn't see it that way...
Although I'm guessing they wouldn't see it that way...
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