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News & ArtsWednesday, April 15, 2009
Crime / News / Theater Seattle Children's Theater Employee Arrested on Charges of Child Pornography
Posted by Brendan Kiley on Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 9:37 AM
This morning, the Department of Homeland Security informed Seattle Children's Theater that one of its employees had been arrested on charges of child pornography. Homeland Security presented a warrant and conducted a search of the building.
SCT spokesperson Jim Jewell said that the administrative employee—not a teacher, not an actor or director—"pretty much worked in a room with a computer."
The theater issued the following statement this afternoon:
Seattle Children’s Theatre’s mission is to provide children of all ages with professional theatre. We hold our responsibility to the children we serve as sacred, particularly as it relates to safety and well-being.
Earlier today, the Department of Homeland Security arrested one of our employees on charges of child pornography. We do not have much detail at point in time, but authorities have indicated no children from the theatre were involved. As we await further word, Seattle Children’s Theatre is cooperating fully with authorities in their investigation. The employee involved has been placed on administrative leave.
The Theatre has clear policies and procedures in place to minimize the chance of such an occurrence. All SCT employees are subject to a background check and must sign our Conduct with Minors Policy Statement.
The Managing Director, Artistic Director and the Board of Trustees are all monitoring the situation and understand its seriousness and sensitivity. We have plans in place to communicate directly and regularly with the parents and patrons of our theatre and associated programs.
UPDATE
The US Attorney’s office has filed federal charges against William Hoke, the Children's Theater IT director, for possession of child pornography.
Hoke was arrested at his home in Seattle this morning and is being held at the federal detention center in Sea-Tac.
According to US Attorney’s Office spokeswoman Emily Langlie, the charges against Hoke are the result of a two-year-old global child pornography investigation by federal authorities.
UPDATE-UPDATE
A summary of the criminal complaint, just sent out from the US Attorney's office:
According to the criminal complaint filed yesterday in Seattle, the United States Postal Inspection Service (USPIS) received information in January 2007, regarding individuals in more than 30 countries who were producing, trading and possessing child pornography via the internet. The individuals were using password protected bulletin boards to trade child pornography. In 2008, law enforcement seized the server that housed one of the bulletin boards and linked it to more than 545 registered members. Investigators determined that an email address associated with HOKE had joined the bulletin board in November 2005, and made 260 posts. Following the seizure, a second bulletin board was set up.That server was seized in September 2008. An email address associated with HOKE had posted 60 times between April and September 2008. The posts were traced to internet addresses at both HOKE’s home and work. Further investigation revealed that HOKE is employed as the Director of Information Services in the Information Technology Department at Seattle Children’s Theatre.
FINAL UPDATE
We got a copy of the complaint today and Hoke has admitted to the allegations:
HOKE admiteed to viewing images of child pornography from both his home computer and his work computer at Seattle Children's Theater. He admitted that he accessed the images from the internet and had been doing so since the 1990s.
Also revealed: That his wife caught him a year and a half ago, he deleted the images, then started collecting again. When the police arrived, he immediately waived his rights and told them everything. It's hard to imagine the hell of guilt and compulsion in that man's head. Reading between the lines of the dry police report, Hoke seemed almost relieved to get caught and confess everything.
Originally posted yesterday afternoon. Additional reporting by Jonah Spangenthal-Lee.
2
In light of the ongoing Catholic Church scandals, perhaps "sacred" isn't the best word to use there.
4
I'm sure they mean well...but frankly, I don't like stuff "for kids".
When I was a kid, if anything said it was a "Children's" this or that, I avoided it like the plague. I always wanted to be with the adults and sit at the big table.
I read real books, not children's books...and liked Bugs Bunny (which was made for adults) not Walt Disney.
When I was a kid, if anything said it was a "Children's" this or that, I avoided it like the plague. I always wanted to be with the adults and sit at the big table.
I read real books, not children's books...and liked Bugs Bunny (which was made for adults) not Walt Disney.
5
Children's Theater of Minneapolis had a similar scandal about 20 years back but I think it was man-child involvement problems, not porn. Worth looking up, though. The guy still designs sets in town (with moderate success).
11
What a bummer. SCT is an awesome organization and, like any arts organization, really don't need this kind of press. I don't have kids or anything but I've seen a couple of their shows and was floored by the production and acting. I hope the parents, patrons and donors aren't so icked out that they yank their kids and money out of the programs there.
12
@4: I'm sure you adored sitting through "Waiting for Godot."
You sound like you were one bizarre kid.
You sound like you were one bizarre kid.
13
I have to wonder why this is a matter for Homeland Security and not the FBI. Seems really strange that they're spending their time tracking down pedophiles and not terrorists.
15
Quick! Someone tell that pissy kid from Dallas that a Seattle theater has a job opening! We can still win back his love yet.
16
#12: "You sound like you were one bizarre kid."
We'll it came from having parents who were essential "incapable". For example, my sister, two years younger, became the "Mom" who fed and dressed the even younger brother and sister and took care of them.
Meanwhile, I had to forgo sleep on Christmas Eve night in order to help my dad assemble the Christmas toys for the younger ones because I actually understood the instructions. For entertainment, they would let me fill out the Census form. Things like that.
We'll it came from having parents who were essential "incapable". For example, my sister, two years younger, became the "Mom" who fed and dressed the even younger brother and sister and took care of them.
Meanwhile, I had to forgo sleep on Christmas Eve night in order to help my dad assemble the Christmas toys for the younger ones because I actually understood the instructions. For entertainment, they would let me fill out the Census form. Things like that.
19
I have no compassion in my heart for pedophiles as far as I'm concern we need to start by castrating them, throw their asses in a tiny jail and throw away the keys. Anyone who would even look at a child in a sexual way is the equivalent of a homegrown terrorist and needs to have the shit beaten out of them for starters. Kids already find themselves under attack by the confusing images and alternative behaviors they see promoted in the media the last thing they need is to worry about an adult wanting to act out those sick behaviors on them. Kids are the future of our nation and we need to protect them no matter who gets their feelings hurt by it.
20
I know a lot of people who work at SCT, and I'm absolutely certain they're taking this situation VERY seriously. I'm just relieved to find out the perp ISN'T in fact someone I know personally, and that it isn't someone more intimately (no pun intended) involved in the local theatre community.
And FWIW, @4, some of the best theatre I've seen in Seattle period has been at SCT. This is not glorified storybook time for the kiddies: it's intelligent, thought-provoking, engaging THEATRE that doesn't talk down to its audience, regardless of their age.
Still, this sort of thing can really be a blow - good thoughts to everyone at SCT: hang in there, gang.
And FWIW, @4, some of the best theatre I've seen in Seattle period has been at SCT. This is not glorified storybook time for the kiddies: it's intelligent, thought-provoking, engaging THEATRE that doesn't talk down to its audience, regardless of their age.
Still, this sort of thing can really be a blow - good thoughts to everyone at SCT: hang in there, gang.
22
Jen, apparently you are unfamiliar with the Sermon on the Mount, wherein Jesus says "but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, castrate him, beat the shit out of him for starters".
23
22 Yes it's called > morality < , you know something you apparently lack.
People who harm the innocent amongst us (children) don't deserve neither the 'right cheek' nor the left. But if its something done to an amoral crep like you then I'm willing to follow your logic.
People who harm the innocent amongst us (children) don't deserve neither the 'right cheek' nor the left. But if its something done to an amoral crep like you then I'm willing to follow your logic.
24
No, I believe that "> morality <" would give one the strength of character to not respond to this behavior by lashing out in violence, driven by fear.
You just seem scared L'Child. You don't like things that are different - "confusing images and alternative behaviors".
You retreat into religion, which you feel justifies your unreasoned responses. I remember that the bible goes on at some length - even going as far as descriptions of "harming innocents" - when detailing how Christians are supposed to forbear.
But whatever - most of you lot ignore all that and just pay attention to the parts that you imagine justify your hateful selves.
He will be dealt with - and harshly - by our secular legal system. Whatever his crimes, the punishment will not include the lavish tortures that seem to come so easily to the imaginings of you fearful cowards.
You just seem scared L'Child. You don't like things that are different - "confusing images and alternative behaviors".
You retreat into religion, which you feel justifies your unreasoned responses. I remember that the bible goes on at some length - even going as far as descriptions of "harming innocents" - when detailing how Christians are supposed to forbear.
But whatever - most of you lot ignore all that and just pay attention to the parts that you imagine justify your hateful selves.
He will be dealt with - and harshly - by our secular legal system. Whatever his crimes, the punishment will not include the lavish tortures that seem to come so easily to the imaginings of you fearful cowards.
25
It's hilarious that you think I'm defending child molesters because I don't think that beating the shit out of them is a very Christian practice. But then, Jesus did say "Let he who is without sin castrate the bastard with a rusty bread knife".
What, pray tell, dear Loveschild, would you say if you cut this fellow's balls off and beat the shit out of him, and then found out he was not guilty -- perhaps someone else used his computer or something. Keep in mind that you know NOTHING about this case.
What people who harm the innocent among us deserve is a fair trial and appropriate prison sentences.
But no, you wacky Christians want to run around beating the shit out of anyone who so much as looks at you funny. And yet you preach morality. Heck, most Christian denominations seem to be into self-flagellation and beating the crap out of YOURSELVES, presumably for the sheer pleasure of it. Innocent, guilty, who cares, as long as some hard punishment is being meted out, right?
Hypocrite.
What, pray tell, dear Loveschild, would you say if you cut this fellow's balls off and beat the shit out of him, and then found out he was not guilty -- perhaps someone else used his computer or something. Keep in mind that you know NOTHING about this case.
What people who harm the innocent among us deserve is a fair trial and appropriate prison sentences.
But no, you wacky Christians want to run around beating the shit out of anyone who so much as looks at you funny. And yet you preach morality. Heck, most Christian denominations seem to be into self-flagellation and beating the crap out of YOURSELVES, presumably for the sheer pleasure of it. Innocent, guilty, who cares, as long as some hard punishment is being meted out, right?
Hypocrite.
28
The most annoying thing about the faithful is that they have so little faith in their own Faith.
Don't you guys win?
I mean in your stories. In the end - don't you win? It's a particularly bland little fantasy that you Christians subscribe to; you just have to kick back and wait.
Then the big glowing guys comes down, something about flying up, a 1000-year kingdom, and then eternity spent worshiping that love-hungry god of yours.
My point is, you win. So leave us alone. What do you care? Why do you spend so much time running around interfering with secular affairs? Just fuck off already. You win, we lose, what do you care?
It's ALMOST like you LIKE telling people what to do. Judging, tisking, and killing a lot of people any time you get any real power.
If you had any real faith, wouldn't you just sit around in church, fantasizing about how much you'll enjoy watching everyone burn in the lakes of fire your god-of-love seems to have lying about?
Don't you guys win?
I mean in your stories. In the end - don't you win? It's a particularly bland little fantasy that you Christians subscribe to; you just have to kick back and wait.
Then the big glowing guys comes down, something about flying up, a 1000-year kingdom, and then eternity spent worshiping that love-hungry god of yours.
My point is, you win. So leave us alone. What do you care? Why do you spend so much time running around interfering with secular affairs? Just fuck off already. You win, we lose, what do you care?
It's ALMOST like you LIKE telling people what to do. Judging, tisking, and killing a lot of people any time you get any real power.
If you had any real faith, wouldn't you just sit around in church, fantasizing about how much you'll enjoy watching everyone burn in the lakes of fire your god-of-love seems to have lying about?
30
@28, they know in their hearts that the Judgement Day isn't enough. "The Father judges no-one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son", but they know and we know that's not going to cut it in a court of law. So let's get to castratin'! Don't let him get away!
Now, Lord knows (and Ted Haggard) how difficult it is to be righteous, so Paul in Corinthians has some tasty advice: "I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be qualified for the prize."
It's all right there in the book.
True, I can't find the part where Jesus beats the shit out of suspected perverts who have overlooked the necessity of beating the shit out of themselves, but I'm sure it's in there. Or if not him, then I think we can all agree to trust in the truly righteous, like our friend Loveschild here, to determine (righteously) out of whom the shit needs to be beaten, and who needs to do the beating. God's law.
Now, Lord knows (and Ted Haggard) how difficult it is to be righteous, so Paul in Corinthians has some tasty advice: "I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be qualified for the prize."
It's all right there in the book.
True, I can't find the part where Jesus beats the shit out of suspected perverts who have overlooked the necessity of beating the shit out of themselves, but I'm sure it's in there. Or if not him, then I think we can all agree to trust in the truly righteous, like our friend Loveschild here, to determine (righteously) out of whom the shit needs to be beaten, and who needs to do the beating. God's law.
31
I knew, Fnarf.
Loveschild, it may pain you to be told that pedophilia predates Will and Grace and the current gay marriage debate. You might remember being told not to talk to strangers as a kid. Your parents were protecting you from pedophiles when they said that.
Don't try to tie the two together. Pedophilia has nothing to do with teh gays, okay?
Loveschild, it may pain you to be told that pedophilia predates Will and Grace and the current gay marriage debate. You might remember being told not to talk to strangers as a kid. Your parents were protecting you from pedophiles when they said that.
Don't try to tie the two together. Pedophilia has nothing to do with teh gays, okay?
32
Oh, and John, don't knock the lake of fire if you haven't tried it. Ted Haggard recommends it highly. He's spent his whole life in it.
33
So am I to understand that the the genitive in Children's theater is objective rather than subjective? I guess I'll have to cross that off my to do list then.
34
@22
Yes Fnarf, I was unaware of the sermon on the mount (because I prefer fiction that doesn't pretend not to be fiction). It's ironic L'C can't hear herself when she gets her crucifixes all in a bunch like this. She's all about peace and loving others and Christian "values," but gawd forbid some poor guy suffers from an affliction she don't take kindly to (which, as usual, doesn't affect her at all), and she goes all medieval on his ass. Castrate him! Put him in a tiny cell! (Cute!) Cut off his dick and shove it up his ass! Throw him in a dark dungeon with huge angry muscle-bound rapists! I gotta say, from the glee with which she encourages these sexual atrocities to be committed aginst someone who - I guarantee you - is not enjoying his disorder, it sounds like she's got a pretty sick sexual fantasy/fetish of her own going on. She sounds positively twitterpated!
Yes Fnarf, I was unaware of the sermon on the mount (because I prefer fiction that doesn't pretend not to be fiction). It's ironic L'C can't hear herself when she gets her crucifixes all in a bunch like this. She's all about peace and loving others and Christian "values," but gawd forbid some poor guy suffers from an affliction she don't take kindly to (which, as usual, doesn't affect her at all), and she goes all medieval on his ass. Castrate him! Put him in a tiny cell! (Cute!) Cut off his dick and shove it up his ass! Throw him in a dark dungeon with huge angry muscle-bound rapists! I gotta say, from the glee with which she encourages these sexual atrocities to be committed aginst someone who - I guarantee you - is not enjoying his disorder, it sounds like she's got a pretty sick sexual fantasy/fetish of her own going on. She sounds positively twitterpated!
35
@22
Yes Fnarf, I was unaware of the sermon on the mount (because I prefer fiction that doesn't pretend not to be fiction). It's ironic L'C can't hear herself when she gets her crucifixes all in a bunch like this. She's all about peace and loving others and Christian "values," but gawd forbid some poor guy suffers from an affliction she don't take kindly to (which, as usual, doesn't affect her at all), and she goes all medieval on his ass. Castrate him! Put him in a tiny cell! (Cute!) Cut off his dick and shove it up his ass! Throw him in a dark dungeon with huge angry muscle-bound rapists! I gotta say, from the glee with which she encourages these sexual atrocities to be committed aginst someone who - I guarantee you - is not enjoying his disorder, it sounds like she's got a pretty sick sexual fantasy/fetish of her own going on. She sounds positively twitterpated!
Yes Fnarf, I was unaware of the sermon on the mount (because I prefer fiction that doesn't pretend not to be fiction). It's ironic L'C can't hear herself when she gets her crucifixes all in a bunch like this. She's all about peace and loving others and Christian "values," but gawd forbid some poor guy suffers from an affliction she don't take kindly to (which, as usual, doesn't affect her at all), and she goes all medieval on his ass. Castrate him! Put him in a tiny cell! (Cute!) Cut off his dick and shove it up his ass! Throw him in a dark dungeon with huge angry muscle-bound rapists! I gotta say, from the glee with which she encourages these sexual atrocities to be committed aginst someone who - I guarantee you - is not enjoying his disorder, it sounds like she's got a pretty sick sexual fantasy/fetish of her own going on. She sounds positively twitterpated!
36
Dear Comte
Shut the fuck up.
Every post... i know some one who works... I work at Annex....
SCT is not legit not only because it employees child molesters, but also because the plays are awful. Terrible terrible terrible
Shut the fuck up.
Every post... i know some one who works... I work at Annex....
SCT is not legit not only because it employees child molesters, but also because the plays are awful. Terrible terrible terrible
37
Castration isn't torture, especially chemical castration. Castration prolongs people's lives, allows normal sexual function, and chemical castration pills are the same drugs some people use to prevent baldness.
39
31 Matt, well said. Comparing gay people to children is Loveschild's (Ironic screen name for this thread, aye?) way of putting herself above people she deems to be less than her. Comparing homosexuality to pedophilia tactic to make sexual acts between two consenting adults seem like a crime.
Loveschild is a Christian elitist. She looks down from her high crystal Christian pedestal to hand down judgments on everyone else. She thinks that everyone should strive to be more like her, as she feels her example is the ideal shining beacon to the world. (Meanwhile deep inside, locked away are feelings with which she refuses to deal.)
Loveschild is a Christian elitist. She looks down from her high crystal Christian pedestal to hand down judgments on everyone else. She thinks that everyone should strive to be more like her, as she feels her example is the ideal shining beacon to the world. (Meanwhile deep inside, locked away are feelings with which she refuses to deal.)
41
I'm glad to see that Loveschild is taking the contrversial 'child molesters are bad' stance. Bravo!
43
SCT does great work. A children's theater producing Night of the Living Dead? Awesome. They employ the best actors in the city, both giving them work and preventing terminal boredom in adults sitting through children's plays. SCT is just great and it's a damn shame this is happening to them.
44
How very sad. Not just the post itself, but also some of the comments. Despite what little we know, are we not presumed innocent until proven guilty in this country? Please, do not assume that I support the molestation of children, because I do not. I have failed to find any Biblical reference that gives me permission to sit in judgement, but I can find many that tell me to deal with my own hypocrisies. A wise person once said mercy precedes judgement.
45
Loveschild @ 19,
This hit a nerve for you. I just wanted you to know that I am sorry for the pain it caused you.
k
This hit a nerve for you. I just wanted you to know that I am sorry for the pain it caused you.
k
46
hmmm.... i have never met a "christian" who holds views similar to those LC expresses here on slog. the character has latched on to christianity, sure, but is more an example of someone who is ignorant as opposed to someone who is a typical christian.
the character - if not a troll or made up persona - is more an indictment of those who are uneducated than those who believe in a god (though there is likely much cross-over).
i firmly believe that education (including education from experience) is so important to our future, far more than battling people who choose to believe in god(s).
oh, and "bugs bunny" is for adults? interesting. well, as pointed out earlier, the SCT is more along the lines of the more "intelligent" child-related material. perhaps, i don't know, in a way that is similar to bugs bunny. only, you know, better in almost every way imaginable.
the character - if not a troll or made up persona - is more an indictment of those who are uneducated than those who believe in a god (though there is likely much cross-over).
i firmly believe that education (including education from experience) is so important to our future, far more than battling people who choose to believe in god(s).
oh, and "bugs bunny" is for adults? interesting. well, as pointed out earlier, the SCT is more along the lines of the more "intelligent" child-related material. perhaps, i don't know, in a way that is similar to bugs bunny. only, you know, better in almost every way imaginable.
47
kim in portland - that was very nice of you. you might be right, and i feel a little like a jerk posting right after you. sometimes people have had negative experiences that taint their perception of situations.
LC, however, has decided to turn that into hatred of others. while such a person is pitiable, the constant hate gets old after a while. LC seems to thrive when others return the (written) hostility, so it presents a strange case. you want to show such a person compassion, but if they are not willing to change, eventually you tire of the rhetoric, and call them out for what they seem to be: hateful. and that description fits regardless of what caused them to choose that path.
LC, however, has decided to turn that into hatred of others. while such a person is pitiable, the constant hate gets old after a while. LC seems to thrive when others return the (written) hostility, so it presents a strange case. you want to show such a person compassion, but if they are not willing to change, eventually you tire of the rhetoric, and call them out for what they seem to be: hateful. and that description fits regardless of what caused them to choose that path.
48
I've had to endure your defense of homosexuality, polygamy and all sorts of behaviors while you apologize to the deviants on behalf of Christianity, I've remained silent when you have done so even though it crawls under my skin seeing you posts those types of apologies but this is the drop that spilled the glass for me. Kim, this is too misguided even for you.
No where in our religion (if you truly are a Christian) is pedophilia even regarded as something that should be dealt with in careful manner. It's not passing judgement, this type of evil needs to be dealt with harshly and promptly before it inflicts more suffering on other innocent children. It should cause pain to you too, to any responsible parent. So keep your apologies to yourself on this matter Kim because you and the fringe elements who post here like Fnarf are alone on this.
No where in our religion (if you truly are a Christian) is pedophilia even regarded as something that should be dealt with in careful manner. It's not passing judgement, this type of evil needs to be dealt with harshly and promptly before it inflicts more suffering on other innocent children. It should cause pain to you too, to any responsible parent. So keep your apologies to yourself on this matter Kim because you and the fringe elements who post here like Fnarf are alone on this.
49
where in the bible does it talk about the punishment for pedophilia?
can jesus forgive any sin?
has anyone ever been falsely accused of a crime?
finally, do you honestly believe anyone (real) here is okay with pedophilia?
can jesus forgive any sin?
has anyone ever been falsely accused of a crime?
finally, do you honestly believe anyone (real) here is okay with pedophilia?
50
@ 48, it's your religion that's at odds with your sentiments. You know, turn the other cheek, judge not lest ye be judged, etc. All of us liberal humanists are for throwing the creep in jail where he'll pay the price at the hands of his fellow inmates - provided that he's guilty, natch.
52
Aw that's so CUTE @36!
You HATE me! You really, really hate me! Just as much as you hate SCT!
For some reason, I feel particularly happy with that comparison!
All I can say is, take a number, get in line, and wait your turn. We'll get to you when we can, 'kay?
You HATE me! You really, really hate me! Just as much as you hate SCT!
For some reason, I feel particularly happy with that comparison!
All I can say is, take a number, get in line, and wait your turn. We'll get to you when we can, 'kay?
53
No one on Slog has ever defended polygamy, Loveschild, and you know it. You're a liar. What does your God say about bearing false witness?
You apparently still believe that rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's, which includes criminal justice on this earth before the Judgement Day, is a bad idea. That makes YOU a danger to society, even more so than a pedophile. A pedophile harms a few; a Christianist seeking to impose Christian-Taliban justice harms everyone.
In addition to being a liar, sweetheart, you're a moron, because you simply cannot wrap your tiny mind around the concept that criminals need to be processed by the criminal justice system, not by you. That doesn't mean "apologize to the deviants", it means prosecute the accused.
Who the fuck are you? Show me where in your bible it says "but" -- "love thy neighbor, unless". No, you're Miss Righteous, and you've got it all sorted out, who deserves the favor of your God and who doesn't. I'm pretty sure if you look in your book you won't find that in there.
"Fringe elements". Right. Law and order, more like. You are advocating chaos, torture and inquisition.
On the other hand, it's good to see that your deeply disturbing reaction to homosexuality is the result of bizarre internalized fears and self-hatreds and not a rational approach to your scripture. Because your religion -- not Christianity, but Loveschild's version of it -- it utter and complete bullshit. There's no Christianity in it, and no Jesus either. You're a hate crime, sugarplum.
You apparently still believe that rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's, which includes criminal justice on this earth before the Judgement Day, is a bad idea. That makes YOU a danger to society, even more so than a pedophile. A pedophile harms a few; a Christianist seeking to impose Christian-Taliban justice harms everyone.
In addition to being a liar, sweetheart, you're a moron, because you simply cannot wrap your tiny mind around the concept that criminals need to be processed by the criminal justice system, not by you. That doesn't mean "apologize to the deviants", it means prosecute the accused.
Who the fuck are you? Show me where in your bible it says "but" -- "love thy neighbor, unless". No, you're Miss Righteous, and you've got it all sorted out, who deserves the favor of your God and who doesn't. I'm pretty sure if you look in your book you won't find that in there.
"Fringe elements". Right. Law and order, more like. You are advocating chaos, torture and inquisition.
On the other hand, it's good to see that your deeply disturbing reaction to homosexuality is the result of bizarre internalized fears and self-hatreds and not a rational approach to your scripture. Because your religion -- not Christianity, but Loveschild's version of it -- it utter and complete bullshit. There's no Christianity in it, and no Jesus either. You're a hate crime, sugarplum.
54
@50 great way to put it. that's what took me three posts to try to say. LC seems like an odd or at best inconsistent character, no one here wants to let pedophiles roam free, we do care whether or not the person is actually guilty though, and finally: we are not acting out of hate, but out of justice.
55
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
Maybe DHS should be doing a little checking into the contents of her hard drive.
Maybe DHS should be doing a little checking into the contents of her hard drive.
56
Fnarf, to be fair, I (and one other poster who's handle escapes me at the moment) have stated that we're okay with polygamy in principle, provided that it's entered into by consenting adults ONLY - no creepy FLDS cult shit, thank you. However, I will oppose its legalization unless the tax implications are sorted out ahead of time in a fair manner. She's probably thinking of that.
That said, it's a completely different issue, one that is in no way a relevant counter-argument to gay marriage.
That said, it's a completely different issue, one that is in no way a relevant counter-argument to gay marriage.
58
56 Let me refresh your memory and that of amoral Fnarf, you're thinking about Rob in Baltimore which Kim has sided with many times.
Fnarf, I just pray to God that if what I'm thinking about you is true your ass finds its way to prison as soon a possible.
Fnarf, I just pray to God that if what I'm thinking about you is true your ass finds its way to prison as soon a possible.
59
Loveschild @ 48,
My only comment to you was @ 45.
Thus, I don't understand why you are scolding me in comment 48.
Nor have I ever posted infavor or against polygamy. You are presuming things about me again.
I get that you believe that you love me in Christ. I, also, get that you think me as some immoral Christian deviant, who is a racist, blasphmer and a corrupter. Do you really need to keep repeating it?
You can keep scolding and pronouncing judgement on me till Jesus returns. I will keep apologizing, where I feel led to. You might not like it, but Christianity does have much to be ashamed of in its history. So, I am going to keep on caring about people and accepting them for who they are, and I am going to continue supporting their right to disagree with me and dislike my faith. I am not here to judge, I am here to build relationships. Another wise man once said, "To love we have to really understand what hurts."
Yes, I forgive you.
My only comment to you was @ 45.
Thus, I don't understand why you are scolding me in comment 48.
Nor have I ever posted infavor or against polygamy. You are presuming things about me again.
I get that you believe that you love me in Christ. I, also, get that you think me as some immoral Christian deviant, who is a racist, blasphmer and a corrupter. Do you really need to keep repeating it?
You can keep scolding and pronouncing judgement on me till Jesus returns. I will keep apologizing, where I feel led to. You might not like it, but Christianity does have much to be ashamed of in its history. So, I am going to keep on caring about people and accepting them for who they are, and I am going to continue supporting their right to disagree with me and dislike my faith. I am not here to judge, I am here to build relationships. Another wise man once said, "To love we have to really understand what hurts."
Yes, I forgive you.
60
@ 58, thanks for the reminder.
Kim is walking in the footsteps of Christ. You'd be wise to listen to her. (I'm not, but that's my choice.)
Kim is walking in the footsteps of Christ. You'd be wise to listen to her. (I'm not, but that's my choice.)
61
@58, what the fucking fuck? Prison, you say? For what? Are you calling me a child molester? You're a fucking psycho, that's what you are.
63
60 No Kim, I think of you as a lovely person who's misguided in certain issues and sometimes urges others to take the same path. Please Kim, Matt who's in the same line of thinking as you was at least honest about it, I ask you to do the same. It seems to me that on many of your comments you have given tacit approval of polygamy either by scolding me when I have commented against it or remaining silent.
Kim, Christianity is not a lets make friends for the sake of making them religion. Yes our lord called us to love our neighbors but that doesn't mean not speaking out against evil conducts as you naively believe. Aside from all the violations you have committed here on your posts, I still believe in the goodness within you because yes our God is a god of forgiveness but our God is also a god of righteousness and who loves good behaviors and wants us (humans) to reflect such ideals on our lifes.
What some other posters here seem to be condoning it's the total opposite and falls into the real of satan not the Creator.
In God's Love.
Kim, Christianity is not a lets make friends for the sake of making them religion. Yes our lord called us to love our neighbors but that doesn't mean not speaking out against evil conducts as you naively believe. Aside from all the violations you have committed here on your posts, I still believe in the goodness within you because yes our God is a god of forgiveness but our God is also a god of righteousness and who loves good behaviors and wants us (humans) to reflect such ideals on our lifes.
What some other posters here seem to be condoning it's the total opposite and falls into the real of satan not the Creator.
In God's Love.
64
While historically Fnarf has been a racist in regards to cartoony Japanese scarves, that is not really a prison related offense. (To my knowledge.)
65
Loveschild, Kim's never implicitly or explicitly endorsed polygamy. You're bearing false witness against her when you say she has.
67
Forget it. Remember that Loveschild is superior to us! Her beliefs are the only valid ones on Earth. Anyone who believes otherwise is evil, and perverted.
Loveschild, now please, go on. Tell us again how we don't measure up to you, and your shining example of humankind.
Loveschild, now please, go on. Tell us again how we don't measure up to you, and your shining example of humankind.
68
Loveschild@ 63,
To address these violations that I am guilty of. You need to be extremly specific. If you want me to consider your accusations.
To address these violations that I am guilty of. You need to be extremly specific. If you want me to consider your accusations.
69
LC is trolling. Why should fnarf go to prison? that doesn't even makes sense. not for a christian to say it, and not for an idiot either. it's pure bait. the christian response would be to pray for fnarf, or to want him to find jesus, or something like that. this is silly.
71
66 I'm sorry it was 59 not 60.
People as with the Bible don't believe me nor Kim nor anyone else, believe what you read. Read through Fnarf's comments here, what's anyone really to think about where he's coming from in regards to this issue?
People as with the Bible don't believe me nor Kim nor anyone else, believe what you read. Read through Fnarf's comments here, what's anyone really to think about where he's coming from in regards to this issue?
72
Loveschild, you say your religion compels you to speak out against "evil conducts". Fine. Go to it. But it's quite a different thing to say "child pornographers is evil" and "child pornographers should be castrated and have the shit beaten out of them". Moreover, the point absolutely still stands: "have the shit beaten out of them" is, quite literally, an un-Christian suggestion.
Hmm, now that I think about it, since she DIDN'T say I should be castrated and beaten, but merely imprisoned, maybe she's suggesting that my crime, whatever it is, is somewhat lesser. Come on, Loveschild, what did I do? Jaywalk? Rob a bank? Google inappropriately? Hurt your feelings? French a mountain goat?
Hmm, now that I think about it, since she DIDN'T say I should be castrated and beaten, but merely imprisoned, maybe she's suggesting that my crime, whatever it is, is somewhat lesser. Come on, Loveschild, what did I do? Jaywalk? Rob a bank? Google inappropriately? Hurt your feelings? French a mountain goat?
73
What legitimate Children's Theatre at some point in their history, not been rocked by a kiddie sex scandal? Sadly, kids, dark theaters and odd hours of operation lead to all sorts of temptations for the pedophilliacly inclined...
Fortunately, this one sounds relatively victimless, at least on a local level, (though obviously the children pictured in the porn are victims).
Fortunately, this one sounds relatively victimless, at least on a local level, (though obviously the children pictured in the porn are victims).
74
Genesis 4:19: "Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah. "
Exodus 21:10: "If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish."
II Samuel 5:13: "And David took him more concubines and wives out of Jerusalem, after he was come from Hebron: and there were yet sons and daughters born to David.
II Samuel 12:7-8: "Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. I gave your master’s house to you, and your master’s wives into your arms. I gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more."
II Chronicles 11:21: "And Rehoboam loved Maachah the daughter of Absalom above all his wives and his concubines: (for he took eighteen wives, and threescore concubines; and begat twenty and eight sons, and threescore daughters.)"
Deuteronomy 21:15-16: "If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love."
Loveschild, why do you hate your God and his Holy Scriptures?
Exodus 21:10: "If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish."
II Samuel 5:13: "And David took him more concubines and wives out of Jerusalem, after he was come from Hebron: and there were yet sons and daughters born to David.
II Samuel 12:7-8: "Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. I gave your master’s house to you, and your master’s wives into your arms. I gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more."
II Chronicles 11:21: "And Rehoboam loved Maachah the daughter of Absalom above all his wives and his concubines: (for he took eighteen wives, and threescore concubines; and begat twenty and eight sons, and threescore daughters.)"
Deuteronomy 21:15-16: "If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love."
Loveschild, why do you hate your God and his Holy Scriptures?
75
68 Twisting Bible verses to defend homosexuality when the Bible is very clear that homosexuality goes against what God intended for his creation.
Apologizing for the fundamental teachings in the Bible, which all Christians believe is the word of God.
Siding with people who defend and actively promote other countless aberrant behaviors (even if you don't do so directly) which clearly leads spiritual death and early physical death.
Apologizing for the fundamental teachings in the Bible, which all Christians believe is the word of God.
Siding with people who defend and actively promote other countless aberrant behaviors (even if you don't do so directly) which clearly leads spiritual death and early physical death.
76
@75 "which all Christians believe is the word of God"
please address @74.
Why do you hate polygamy?
please address @74.
Why do you hate polygamy?
77
So - is there something to be learned from this?
Assuming that L'Child isn't a nihilistic twelve-year-old prank-calling the SLOG, can we figure out what the disorder is that drives these attitudes?
Rush Limbaugh is driven by some sick need to be hated. L'Child is so far off the deep-end that I see a similarity there.
What is the pathology that is driving this behavior? It has to be along some anti-social, borderline-personality axis.
Or, the internet version of a 12YO prank-calling.
Assuming that L'Child isn't a nihilistic twelve-year-old prank-calling the SLOG, can we figure out what the disorder is that drives these attitudes?
Rush Limbaugh is driven by some sick need to be hated. L'Child is so far off the deep-end that I see a similarity there.
What is the pathology that is driving this behavior? It has to be along some anti-social, borderline-personality axis.
Or, the internet version of a 12YO prank-calling.
78
Loveschild @ 75,
Which verses. You have to be specific.
Specifically, what fundamental teaching am I guilty of apologizing for. I apologize to people for the feelings of hurt.
Specifically, which people have I sided with that defend and actively promote other countless aberrant behaviors.
Did it ever occur to you, that I don't respond to some comments for reasons other than agreement? Such as:
1) I am not on SLOG at the time, because I have other responsibilities.
2) I don't read every thread posted, because I have other responsibilities.
3) I don't have an opinion on the subject.
4) I need to think before I speak.
5) I think other people have expressed my feelings on an issue more eloquently than I could in their comment.
If you cannot or will not be specific then don't bother responding. I have better things to do, than contemplate your nebulous accusations.
Lastly, who made you God?
Which verses. You have to be specific.
Specifically, what fundamental teaching am I guilty of apologizing for. I apologize to people for the feelings of hurt.
Specifically, which people have I sided with that defend and actively promote other countless aberrant behaviors.
Did it ever occur to you, that I don't respond to some comments for reasons other than agreement? Such as:
1) I am not on SLOG at the time, because I have other responsibilities.
2) I don't read every thread posted, because I have other responsibilities.
3) I don't have an opinion on the subject.
4) I need to think before I speak.
5) I think other people have expressed my feelings on an issue more eloquently than I could in their comment.
If you cannot or will not be specific then don't bother responding. I have better things to do, than contemplate your nebulous accusations.
Lastly, who made you God?
79
Loveschild @ 75,
You realize you started this whole conversation. I addressed you in comment 45, by expressing concern. I didn't attack your previously stated opinions.
Why do you have a habit of dragging me into your comments? You dislike the comments of another commentator and you drag me into it. This isn't the first time either. Perhaps, you need to ask yourself why? I don't appreciate your going off on me, when another commentator disagrees with your opinion. Defend you position, it's your right, but leave me out of your scoldings.
Keep telling yourself that you think I am a lovely, yet misguided person. Perhaps, you will believe it to such a point that your comments consistently reveal it.
I forgive you.
You realize you started this whole conversation. I addressed you in comment 45, by expressing concern. I didn't attack your previously stated opinions.
Why do you have a habit of dragging me into your comments? You dislike the comments of another commentator and you drag me into it. This isn't the first time either. Perhaps, you need to ask yourself why? I don't appreciate your going off on me, when another commentator disagrees with your opinion. Defend you position, it's your right, but leave me out of your scoldings.
Keep telling yourself that you think I am a lovely, yet misguided person. Perhaps, you will believe it to such a point that your comments consistently reveal it.
I forgive you.
80
The thread raises a number of issues.
1. Keep pedophiles away from children and the internet. Imprison/fine as appropriate.
2. Thank God the guy didn't have access to children (I hope). "Sit on Uncle Johnny's lap as he backs up the server," shouldn't fly with even the most naive kid.
3. Though I have no experience with SCT, I learned as a child that a lot of children's theater sucks. Actresses dressed up as giant stuffed animals reciting sappy dialogue, acting out inane plots, is far too common for the genre. Children's theater is to theater as Junior Scrabble is to Scrabble: a boring pastime for the simple minded.
4. While I appreciate the chance to comment anonymously, the guy posing as fnarf shows there should be optional registration to prevent pseudonym hijacking. Let fnarf, strangeways, COMTE, and the other folks who have built up an identity keep hijackers away.
1. Keep pedophiles away from children and the internet. Imprison/fine as appropriate.
2. Thank God the guy didn't have access to children (I hope). "Sit on Uncle Johnny's lap as he backs up the server," shouldn't fly with even the most naive kid.
3. Though I have no experience with SCT, I learned as a child that a lot of children's theater sucks. Actresses dressed up as giant stuffed animals reciting sappy dialogue, acting out inane plots, is far too common for the genre. Children's theater is to theater as Junior Scrabble is to Scrabble: a boring pastime for the simple minded.
4. While I appreciate the chance to comment anonymously, the guy posing as fnarf shows there should be optional registration to prevent pseudonym hijacking. Let fnarf, strangeways, COMTE, and the other folks who have built up an identity keep hijackers away.
81
Loveschild, the Bible is very clear about a LOT of things that go against God's intentions:
eating shellfish unscaled sea creatures, pork, or other cloven-hoofed animals;
remarrying ones wife after she's married a second husband;
undressing a menstruating woman;
cross-dressing (including slacks on women);
wearing blended fabrics;
trimming ones beard;
reading horoscopes;
getting a tattoo;
telling lies;
eating bloody meat;
charging or paying interest on a loan;
All of these (and more) are abominations in the sight of God, according to the Bible, and each has a particular punishment associated with it, which can generally range anywhere from banishment to execution.
So, the question is: do you now, or have you EVER engaged in ANY of these practices? If so, you are guilty of violating God's law, just as would be those whom you accuse, and you are subject to the same punishment(s) prescribed in the Bible for those particular crimes against your Lord God, just as you say those other violators are.
Well, what do you have to say for yourself? Remember, God already KNOWS the answer, so lying to us won't get you off the hook; in fact, you'll just be digging yourself an even deeper hole - leading straight to eternal torment in Hell. So, think very carefully before you write.
Eagerly awaiting your reply,
eating shellfish unscaled sea creatures, pork, or other cloven-hoofed animals;
remarrying ones wife after she's married a second husband;
undressing a menstruating woman;
cross-dressing (including slacks on women);
wearing blended fabrics;
trimming ones beard;
reading horoscopes;
getting a tattoo;
telling lies;
eating bloody meat;
charging or paying interest on a loan;
All of these (and more) are abominations in the sight of God, according to the Bible, and each has a particular punishment associated with it, which can generally range anywhere from banishment to execution.
So, the question is: do you now, or have you EVER engaged in ANY of these practices? If so, you are guilty of violating God's law, just as would be those whom you accuse, and you are subject to the same punishment(s) prescribed in the Bible for those particular crimes against your Lord God, just as you say those other violators are.
Well, what do you have to say for yourself? Remember, God already KNOWS the answer, so lying to us won't get you off the hook; in fact, you'll just be digging yourself an even deeper hole - leading straight to eternal torment in Hell. So, think very carefully before you write.
Eagerly awaiting your reply,
82
Nice COMTE - that one about paying interest on a loan will be particularly handy this month.
I'll be sure to cite it when I'm paying my bills in this "Christian Nation".
I'll be sure to cite it when I'm paying my bills in this "Christian Nation".
83
@82:
Just make sure to ask your banker whether (s)he considers themselves to be a "Good Christian" first, though!
Just make sure to ask your banker whether (s)he considers themselves to be a "Good Christian" first, though!
84
1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
(Romans 13:1-7).
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
(Romans 13:1-7).
86
@85 people that you don't agree with aren't trolls. Loveschiled is misguided, but hardly a troll.
(PS and you should talk, your comments are the lamest of them all)
(PS and you should talk, your comments are the lamest of them all)
88
For the record, Seattle Children's Theater is an amazing theater that does stellar work - you aren't going to find cheesy scripts with actors wearing stupid costumes. They often do a specific "21 and over" night for their productions, to encourage older audiences to come out and see what many of us have known for years - SCT is for people of all ages.
I don't think "dark theaters" and "odd hours" are conducive of pedophilia, and the inference that the environment theater artists work in somehow attracts it is a bit misguided, if not downright offensive.
My heart goes out to the staff during this time. Keep your chin up, SCT!
I don't think "dark theaters" and "odd hours" are conducive of pedophilia, and the inference that the environment theater artists work in somehow attracts it is a bit misguided, if not downright offensive.
My heart goes out to the staff during this time. Keep your chin up, SCT!
89
Interesting how when someone thinks of a pedophile they immediately think "man". Look at the news articles over the last month. There has been almost a 3 or 4 to 1 ratio of Women offenders over Men.
How are you going to go about castrating a Woman? Are you still going to lock her up in a damp dank cell?
My point is this: Stop blaming everything on just Men. This is a Human issue that crosses all races, genders, religions. If you think its SICK, DISGUSTING, EVIL for a Man to do it but you are not that offended when a Woman does it.... your almost as bad as the pedophile.
How are you going to go about castrating a Woman? Are you still going to lock her up in a damp dank cell?
My point is this: Stop blaming everything on just Men. This is a Human issue that crosses all races, genders, religions. If you think its SICK, DISGUSTING, EVIL for a Man to do it but you are not that offended when a Woman does it.... your almost as bad as the pedophile.
90
Can someone please explain to me why DHS is chasing pedos? Pedos are sick fucks for certain but i dont think they are terrorists in the traditional sense of the word
91
I am appalled at the comments here. There is so little information on this report, and you guys seem to want to think there is something there that is not reported. The report did not charge anyone with "being a pedophile." You suck. I knew this guy, and I'm convinced he's being screwed. If you want to live in a society where people are castrated for looking at pictures, (if that is indeed the case) I don't want to live in that society with you. Fuckers.
OK, Stranger, let's see you publish another story when nothing comes of this. BEcause I sure as hell know that the Times won't. Another guy got screwed by the DHS, and I'm seeing people applaud here. Good for you, "progressives."
OK, Stranger, let's see you publish another story when nothing comes of this. BEcause I sure as hell know that the Times won't. Another guy got screwed by the DHS, and I'm seeing people applaud here. Good for you, "progressives."
92
NAMBLA loses another annual membership fee. Boo hoo.
First the exec director at YTN, now another office pedo at SCT.
Village, Broadway Bound, Studio East... you guys might wanna do a little housecleaning: background checks (which I know you are NOT doing to those outside of the FT staffers), and perhaps random browser history/registry check. Seriously.
First the exec director at YTN, now another office pedo at SCT.
Village, Broadway Bound, Studio East... you guys might wanna do a little housecleaning: background checks (which I know you are NOT doing to those outside of the FT staffers), and perhaps random browser history/registry check. Seriously.
93
@73: Epic. fail. You clearly are unemcumbered by clues. Dark rooms, odd hours and children = pedophilia mania??!?!
yeah, and matinee showings of harry potter.
And airplane cabins during liftoff: all that molestation there, too.
And naptime at the montessori school.
and Lazer Floyd.
[...OK, I'll give you that one, sometimes].
and Eye exams! Those optomitrist guilds are just a seething bed of licentious villainy!!
Thrice-dipped asshat.
What legitimate Children's Theatre at some point in their history, not been rocked by a kiddie sex scandal?
yeah, and matinee showings of harry potter.
And airplane cabins during liftoff: all that molestation there, too.
And naptime at the montessori school.
and Lazer Floyd.
[...OK, I'll give you that one, sometimes].
and Eye exams! Those optomitrist guilds are just a seething bed of licentious villainy!!
Thrice-dipped asshat.
What legitimate Children's Theatre at some point in their history, not been rocked by a kiddie sex scandal?
94
The report did not charge anyone with "being a pedophile." You suck. I knew this guy, and I'm convinced he's being screwed. If you want to live in a society where people are castrated for looking at pictures, (if that is indeed the case) I don't want to live in that society with you.
It's logical to deduce that people enjoy the porn that corresponds to their sexual orientation. Although there is some crossover, gays gravitate to gay porn and straights gravitate to straight porn. The inference for child pornography watchers is clear.
Moreover, watching the memorialized sexual exploitation of children can hardly be described as "looking at pictures." As the demand for legal porn drives the legal porn industry, so does the demand for child porn drive the child porn industry. Our society does not tolerate the sexual exploitation of children, and frankly I do not want to live in a society that does.
It's logical to deduce that people enjoy the porn that corresponds to their sexual orientation. Although there is some crossover, gays gravitate to gay porn and straights gravitate to straight porn. The inference for child pornography watchers is clear.
Moreover, watching the memorialized sexual exploitation of children can hardly be described as "looking at pictures." As the demand for legal porn drives the legal porn industry, so does the demand for child porn drive the child porn industry. Our society does not tolerate the sexual exploitation of children, and frankly I do not want to live in a society that does.
95
"As the demand for legal porn drives the legal porn industry, so does the demand for child porn drive the child porn industry."
There is no evidence that porn of any genre creates any shift in the sexual orientation of particular individuals. As I've said on other threads the publication of crime scene photos does not promote rape and murder. Viewing of such photos should not land you on a rapist/murderer registry. Money is the sole driver of commerce in porn.
We should focus on breaking the cycle of abuse where we can. That job is made easier by the practice of pedophiles making their own crime scene photos. I fear the principle that our moral outrage should lead us to a thought-police state.
There is no evidence that porn of any genre creates any shift in the sexual orientation of particular individuals. As I've said on other threads the publication of crime scene photos does not promote rape and murder. Viewing of such photos should not land you on a rapist/murderer registry. Money is the sole driver of commerce in porn.
We should focus on breaking the cycle of abuse where we can. That job is made easier by the practice of pedophiles making their own crime scene photos. I fear the principle that our moral outrage should lead us to a thought-police state.
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