Tuesday, April 14, 2009
Boom Ghetto Fabulous
Posted by Dominic Holden on Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 4:54 PM
Seattle’s former convergence zone for drug sellers and crack addicts (the corner of East Denny Way and East Madison Street) has been stripped of its former identity. Jim Mueller, a developer who bought two parcels of land, razed the notorious Deano’s building on the corner (more on that here). The former Twilight Exit building across the street—which was notorious for drunken, feckless hipsters, not crackheads—is now vacant.
Mueller has submitted near-final plans to the city for the excellent buildings that will replace them. Here’s the Twilight site recently:
And Mueller’s plans for 96 apartments above retail:
By Mithun
The former Deano’s site before the demolition:
And Mueller’s plans for 222 apartments with retail:
By Weinstein AU
The two buildings will cost $75 million, Mueller says; he’s waiting for the lending markets to thaw before beginning construction. He expects to break ground within the next two years. “I think it will be positive for the neighborhood,” says Mueller. “You get the right kind of retail and you’ve really made a statement.” The right kind of retail is “neighborhood” and “local.” Aw, c'mon, Jim, crack is neighborhoody and local. "Friendly, neighborhood and local," he says. "No imports."
A public design meeting for the latter project is scheduled for May 6, at 8:00 p.m. in room 3211 of Seattle Central Community College, 1701 Broadway.
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7
You should have come to the SLOG Happy there, elenchos, it was fun. Gift exchange, bacon, and fairly open space.
8
Deano is the nickname of Dean Falls, the former owner of Deano's Bar, Deano's Grocery etc. at Madison & Denny.
Dino, best as I can remember, was Fred Flintstone's dog.
Dino, best as I can remember, was Fred Flintstone's dog.
9
In either case, sleeze bar or habitrail for humans, Dan Savage's thirst for sex could be quenched.
10
What's the retail space look like? Because from here it looks like T-Mobile, Check Masters, Desert Sun Tan, Quiznos, Keller-Williams territory to me.
11
God, how long do we have to wait until all of this Seattle development goes economically tits-ups and gets all Blade Runner on us- thereby becoming fucking HIP again???
12
I think these look great but @10, it's true, that is always the drawback with new buildings like this – the retail space ends up being kind of sterile, or at least not the kind of space I'd like to have a beer in. Maybe the retail will be boutiques or galleries or a bookstore/newsstand or something though. Could be cool.
14
A large part of it has to do with the shape of the retail spaces -- they tend to be too wide and too shallow. But there's got to be more to it than just that.
Part of it is that new construction by definition means higher rents, which excludes a lot of potentially interesting neighborhood businesses that (a) are just getting off the ground (b) don't have access to corporate financing on the same scale and (c) don't have economies of scale that chains and franchises have.
I mean, when you open a Subway or a Desert Sun, you've got professional business plans, logos, sign designs, store layouts, all that stuff already done for you. And new construction, being an investment of many millions of dollars, likewise has a highly professional corporate leasing office, who are going to pretty skeptical of your handwritten bookstore-coffeehouse business plan, your lack of prearranged financing, and your lack of a fancy headquarters building somewhere far away to back you up.
So the chains get in. And they are profitable; but they lack flavor, and the kind of uniqueness that brings people here instead of someplace else, and the kind of open-door public amenity that an individual shop has.
Part of it is that new construction by definition means higher rents, which excludes a lot of potentially interesting neighborhood businesses that (a) are just getting off the ground (b) don't have access to corporate financing on the same scale and (c) don't have economies of scale that chains and franchises have.
I mean, when you open a Subway or a Desert Sun, you've got professional business plans, logos, sign designs, store layouts, all that stuff already done for you. And new construction, being an investment of many millions of dollars, likewise has a highly professional corporate leasing office, who are going to pretty skeptical of your handwritten bookstore-coffeehouse business plan, your lack of prearranged financing, and your lack of a fancy headquarters building somewhere far away to back you up.
So the chains get in. And they are profitable; but they lack flavor, and the kind of uniqueness that brings people here instead of someplace else, and the kind of open-door public amenity that an individual shop has.
15
@12/14: Although we could argue the design features of Brix (personally I don't mind it) they did a great job of 1) making sure they had businesses ready when they opened, preventing a year or more of dead store fronts and 2) making sure those businesses were local draws. I really applaud them for that. Dunn + Hobbes will also be hosting Cupcake Royale for the opening of 1111 E Pike. These are chain-ish but at least they are much more local and have some character
17
the mithun project looks awful, not surprisingly.
the weinstein actually looks interesting, i hope we get more projects that look like this.
the weinstein actually looks interesting, i hope we get more projects that look like this.
18
The Agnes Lofts did well with their ground floor tenant, Boom Noodle, a local neighborhood business.
Same architecture firm for the Mueller buildings.
Same architecture firm for the Mueller buildings.
19
Excuse me, same architect as for the Deano's building- Weinstein AU - as for the Agnes Lofts.
Mithun did the Brix condos on Broadway.
Mithun did the Brix condos on Broadway.
20
@15: I guess I take the long view. I don't expect Cupcake Royale to be there in 25 years, so the question is, will the space continue to be useful for generations of retail? Virtually all of the interesting retail neighborhoods in Seattle (or anywhere else) have been around forever, and have survived wave after wave of changing uses. Get an old city directory and "walk" down Broadway or 45th or California Ave and see what I mean. I'd be more excited about some of these developments if I saw more examples of exciting retail areas being created from nothing.
21
And fewer examples of live strips being killed dead by new development, I forgot to add. Look at what that new strip up on Lake City Way did. Oh, my god.
23
Way to make the three people you can actually see in the second image whities.
great, gentrification.
great, gentrification.
24
Wow, more overpriced crap designed condos with a strip of mall chain stores! Just what Seattle is lacking in!
25
Has anybody seen this f@#$%*&g area before. I mean seriously they plan to build these homes and retail spaces there? This developer might as well find a metal barrel, lighter fluid, and some matches to burn up his money with. The only thing this neighbourhood has going for it is it's close to I-90. These properties are gonna be sitting vacant for a long time as there isn't Sh#t for views. God Seattle get a damn clue............
29
@25 i don't think you understand how property development works. the only question is will these buildings entice people to move into them. i, for one, would be reluctant because i think they're sorta ugly, but the location is pretty good. also, i'm skeptical about the viability of the retail space. it doesn't look like the sort of space that would house neighborhood bars, restaurants, shops, boutiques,etc. as opposed to say a cingular store front or a subway/quiznos. but i suppose that remains to be seen.
30
This is bull shit.
Across the street, on the first floor of the Safeway building, a Starbucks has closed it's doors, and joined it's neighbor in vacancy. Completely empty. Musta been doing worse and/or had less future then the Starbucks at 23rd and Jackson - that's how hood it is down here...
In other words, that shit won't be anything for years: Drive down Denny or Westlake and watch how much vacant Retail One you see.
Across the street, on the first floor of the Safeway building, a Starbucks has closed it's doors, and joined it's neighbor in vacancy. Completely empty. Musta been doing worse and/or had less future then the Starbucks at 23rd and Jackson - that's how hood it is down here...
In other words, that shit won't be anything for years: Drive down Denny or Westlake and watch how much vacant Retail One you see.
31
The Twilight Exit building is terribly misrepresented, insofar as the street separating it from the six-story Safeway building is more like a narrow alley than the giant tree-lined avenue the artist depicts.
It's gonna have no sunlight, and no view whatsoever.
It's gonna have no sunlight, and no view whatsoever.
32
So by "no imports" he means only domestic speed will be allowed to be sold on this corner, not imported cocaine, right?
33
cupcake royale is moving into 1111 e pike, which is an Anne Michaelson building not Dunn + Hobbes, aka Liz Dunn. it is a chain, but a local chain, which is better than another desert sun. Same with boom noodle, which is enormously popular.
34
1111 E Pike is a surprisingly attractive building, but couldn't it have been the superior Trophy Cupcakes that moves in, instead of the overrated CupCrap Royale?
35
great comments fnarf. i might just link back to your posts every time this discussion comes up (which it inevitably will....)
36
A primer on leasing:
Big names do not necessarily mean big rents. In fact, the stronger the brand (i.e. a 'high' credit tenant) the more concessions a property owner will have to make. This is why big anchor tenants at malls, for example, don't pay ANY rent.
There was a time when a Starbucks would legitimize an address. Starbucks knew this and would sign cherry leases.
There is so much risk associated with small, unproven businesses, that they either need to find out-of-the-way junk spaces, or pay top dollar in a good location; if they go under, the landlord is protected while he looks for another tenant.
Big names do not necessarily mean big rents. In fact, the stronger the brand (i.e. a 'high' credit tenant) the more concessions a property owner will have to make. This is why big anchor tenants at malls, for example, don't pay ANY rent.
There was a time when a Starbucks would legitimize an address. Starbucks knew this and would sign cherry leases.
There is so much risk associated with small, unproven businesses, that they either need to find out-of-the-way junk spaces, or pay top dollar in a good location; if they go under, the landlord is protected while he looks for another tenant.
37
We have enjoyed and appreciated reading all the comments this article generated.
Our senior development director and I both live within walking distance of this spot, and we care a lot about how the corner is redone.
We use Quizno's as an example of the kind of retailer we are not interested in, and frankly I don't even know what Desert Sun is.
We'll look for people who can be successful in our neighborhood and who will become part of the neighborhood. Chain stores from somewhere else don't fit that model.
Some of my favorite developers are Liz Dunn, who is now running the Green Lab for the National Trust for Historic Preservation, and Ron Sher who is known, among other things, for Third Place Books.
No people of color in the drawing? Dumb oversight on our part - we usually catch that kind of thing before it sees the light of day, because it is important.
Starbucks in the Summit building failed for several reasons in my opinion. 1. No street parking out front and a narrow sidewalk makes for an uninviting place for pedestrians.
2. Wrong side of the street for morning commuters. 3. Not enough pedestrians, which will change as people come to live in our new buildings.
Finally, we are putting a very wide sidewalk on the side of the 'Fat Note', and the drawing is accurate!
Our senior development director and I both live within walking distance of this spot, and we care a lot about how the corner is redone.
We use Quizno's as an example of the kind of retailer we are not interested in, and frankly I don't even know what Desert Sun is.
We'll look for people who can be successful in our neighborhood and who will become part of the neighborhood. Chain stores from somewhere else don't fit that model.
Some of my favorite developers are Liz Dunn, who is now running the Green Lab for the National Trust for Historic Preservation, and Ron Sher who is known, among other things, for Third Place Books.
No people of color in the drawing? Dumb oversight on our part - we usually catch that kind of thing before it sees the light of day, because it is important.
Starbucks in the Summit building failed for several reasons in my opinion. 1. No street parking out front and a narrow sidewalk makes for an uninviting place for pedestrians.
2. Wrong side of the street for morning commuters. 3. Not enough pedestrians, which will change as people come to live in our new buildings.
Finally, we are putting a very wide sidewalk on the side of the 'Fat Note', and the drawing is accurate!
38
I live in Summit Apartments across the street. My Building is nearing five years old and they have yet to do anything with the retail space other than the Starbucks that has been closed and gutted. I really hope we soon see something change. As one of the other commenters stated. The smaller companies just can't afford these new buildings. Take B&O for example. They are a established long running business. Not even they could qualify for one of the older spaces on Broadway to move to when thier building is torn down for another building to be built with vacant retail below.
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