Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, April 14, 2009
Economy Freedom?
Posted by Charles Mudede on Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 1:59 PM
Couple pay off $46,000 in debt, throw party.Why does this success story sound more sad than satisfying? You feel the emptiness of it all. You paid your debts, you are owe nothing—what next? What are you going to do with this freedom? Or do you realize now that you actually were never not free? We see some connection between the image of the husband and wife in the car and the image of the husband and wife at the end of The Graduate. "You're wondering now/What to do/Cause you know/This is the end."
...[T]he Colorado resident and her husband threw a party Saturday for friends and family after mailing off the final check. The event at a community center featured a cake decorated with the debt amount in green icing, CNN television affiliate KUSA reported.The couple had been paying the debt for three years and seven months, Muldoon told CNN, adding that the last payment they made recently was for $1,500.
"When we mailed that last check ... I sat down in the car, I looked over to my husband and I just burst out into tears," she said....
2
thing bad thing about my credit is it is average. i even have an average score. i wish my credit had the honor of being bad and utterly useless to capitalism.
3
uh oh, it's tag-fixing time:
change this:
$46,000 in debt, throw party<</a>
/strong>
to this:
$46,000 in debt, throw party</a>
</strong>
change this:
$46,000 in debt, throw party<</a>
/strong>
to this:
$46,000 in debt, throw party</a>
</strong>
5
I think Mudede is bizarrely off with his take.
Four years ago, we paid off a significant debt. It took a lot of discipline and commitment. Then, we started putting our money to work: saving more (we now save about 40% of our take-home pay) for retirement, vacations, stuff around the house, etc. All this on a social worker's and half-time nurse's aide's salaries and one of us in school.
It sure beats being stressed out about money! I'm happy for these people.
Four years ago, we paid off a significant debt. It took a lot of discipline and commitment. Then, we started putting our money to work: saving more (we now save about 40% of our take-home pay) for retirement, vacations, stuff around the house, etc. All this on a social worker's and half-time nurse's aide's salaries and one of us in school.
It sure beats being stressed out about money! I'm happy for these people.
6
Jesus Christ, Charles, shut the fuck up and let the people enjoy their moment. These are people that are most likely going to use their freedom to go on vacations, see a few more movies and afford health care if they need it.
7
It's a human-interest piece that actually celebrates responsibility in America.
It's grown-ups actually acting like grown-ups, taking ownership of their mistakes and, through hard work and perseverance, making ends meet.
Worthy of its own piece on CNN? Sure. Why not? Perhaps, in light of these economic times, as an example of what we all could be doing rather than whining.
Charles, your snarky second-guessing of this sort of behavior is telling.
It's grown-ups actually acting like grown-ups, taking ownership of their mistakes and, through hard work and perseverance, making ends meet.
Worthy of its own piece on CNN? Sure. Why not? Perhaps, in light of these economic times, as an example of what we all could be doing rather than whining.
Charles, your snarky second-guessing of this sort of behavior is telling.
8
Hey, stop laying into Charles, it's not like he's living at the bottom of an elevator shaft any more.
9
@7 Agreed. This is a great story. We should celebrate people taking responsibility for their lives and actions in this way, regardless of what economic system they might be a part of.
But alas, as with most of his postings, Mudede sacrifices the celebration of humanity in favor of the obscure philosophical point. If you're going to piss on parades, Charles, at least give us pictures of attractive, scantily-clad women.
But alas, as with most of his postings, Mudede sacrifices the celebration of humanity in favor of the obscure philosophical point. If you're going to piss on parades, Charles, at least give us pictures of attractive, scantily-clad women.
10
I paid off all my debts (including my mortgage) about eight years ago. The fundamental shift in my health, personality and outlook towards life was immediate and lasting. Like the frog in the pot of water set to boil, you don't realize how badly it affects you over time. No debt, no payments, no obligations to keep you in a rotten job/city/relationship. You recieve a whole pant-load of freedom.
11
Isn't there some rule in Strunk & White against building an entire paragraph out of rhetorical questions? Undoubtedly, but the essense of a rule lies in its violation.
Hey, I can write like Charles!
Hey, I can write like Charles!
12
Charles sees the truth. In a society whose prosperity depends on debt, there may be some relief in paying off a credit card, but it is no virtue. This is the source of that empty feeling, I think.
Congratulations, you're debt free! Now be good Americans and stimulate that economy by using your charge cards again.
Congratulations, you're debt free! Now be good Americans and stimulate that economy by using your charge cards again.
13
I think you're off the mark here, Charles.
I realize you didn't grow up in this country, but there's an old episode of "All in the Family" that this story puts me in mind of - the one where Archie and Edith finally pay off their mortgage, and they have a big mortgage party to celebrate. It's a great show, and it really says something about responsibility and the price of freedom in America.
I think the only sense of emptiness in this story was the one which you brought to it yourself.
I realize you didn't grow up in this country, but there's an old episode of "All in the Family" that this story puts me in mind of - the one where Archie and Edith finally pay off their mortgage, and they have a big mortgage party to celebrate. It's a great show, and it really says something about responsibility and the price of freedom in America.
I think the only sense of emptiness in this story was the one which you brought to it yourself.
14
@12. Our society may depend on debt, but there is certainly virtue in paying off credit card debt.
Your post treats all debt as equal, but certainly there is "good debt" (debt that you take on that has the promise of generating a higher return than the interest you are being charged -- e.g., home mortgages, small business loans) and "bad debt" (debt that is only going to cost you money in the long-term -- e.g., credit cards, car loans).
"Good debt" is better both for the individual and for society (assuming that the people lending the money have reasonably good judgment about who to lend to -- not always a good assumption, as we've seen).
Your post treats all debt as equal, but certainly there is "good debt" (debt that you take on that has the promise of generating a higher return than the interest you are being charged -- e.g., home mortgages, small business loans) and "bad debt" (debt that is only going to cost you money in the long-term -- e.g., credit cards, car loans).
"Good debt" is better both for the individual and for society (assuming that the people lending the money have reasonably good judgment about who to lend to -- not always a good assumption, as we've seen).
15
Screw responsibility. I'm way too smart and free-thinking for that kind of thing. I plan to declare bankruptcy as soon as i graduate with my degree in theatre, just to avoid paying back my student loans.
Besides, if I get into any real trouble, Mommy and Daddy can always bail me out.
Perhaps I can get a job writing blogs?
Besides, if I get into any real trouble, Mommy and Daddy can always bail me out.
Perhaps I can get a job writing blogs?
16
Self Reliant people have no need for a Marxist philosophy of having everyone else take care of them via taxation and handouts. This is what eats Charles up inside. Less people dependent on anyone else, whether it be the government, bankers, etc. Freedom from the power brokers whoever they may be.
Paying off debt/bills is a virtue. It shows that you are trustworthy with money and not a thief who's just going to take the money and run or just out for a free ride.
Paying off debt/bills is a virtue. It shows that you are trustworthy with money and not a thief who's just going to take the money and run or just out for a free ride.
17
Only losers and little people pay off their debts. Winners get bailed out by the government at taxpayer expense and then take their bonuses back to their upper east side penthouses.
18
Life is so much less stressful without debt. It is a worthwhile thing to do. Paying 23% interest on your credit card balance is like leaches sucking your blood.
19
@14: I think you're describing the happy version of how debt is supposed to work under capitalism, but as you imply, it hasn't worked out that way.
If things really did work the way you explained, that CNN piece would be gratifying to read, pure and simple. But that empty feeling comes from the fact that, in reality, bad debt actually prevails, and it's the real source of wealth for speculative capitalism. I took that to be what Charles was saying: there's nothing on the other side.
If things really did work the way you explained, that CNN piece would be gratifying to read, pure and simple. But that empty feeling comes from the fact that, in reality, bad debt actually prevails, and it's the real source of wealth for speculative capitalism. I took that to be what Charles was saying: there's nothing on the other side.
20
@16 You touch on a deeper point.
Success breeds contempt in the unsuccessful.
Those of you expressing contempt or suspicion on this topic, what does that really say about you, other than that you wish to tear down the accomplishments of others in order to feel better about your own circumstances?
Success breeds contempt in the unsuccessful.
Those of you expressing contempt or suspicion on this topic, what does that really say about you, other than that you wish to tear down the accomplishments of others in order to feel better about your own circumstances?
21
@10 I think Charle's point was that you never were obligated to that rotten job/city/relationship. I've been in debt since i left college and have had ups and downs like anyone that isn't in debt. You might feel better knowing you don't owe money to anyone, but it doesn't give you any more freedom than you already had.
If we had a debtors prison society, that would be different.
If we had a debtors prison society, that would be different.
23
Charles,
I disagree. It is cause for celebration. When I paid off my college loans, I went out to dinner. I am delighted when my credit card balance is $0.
Debt is something to take seriously. In Plato's Republic, Callicles is asked "What is a virtuous man?" His response is "A man who pays his debts." Is is but one example of virtue. (Wouldn't you be happy if you paid off a mortagage Charles?) It's not sad, it's glad.
I disagree. It is cause for celebration. When I paid off my college loans, I went out to dinner. I am delighted when my credit card balance is $0.
Debt is something to take seriously. In Plato's Republic, Callicles is asked "What is a virtuous man?" His response is "A man who pays his debts." Is is but one example of virtue. (Wouldn't you be happy if you paid off a mortagage Charles?) It's not sad, it's glad.
24
My problem is that even if I'm debt free, which is very much possible for me within 2-3 years if I discipline myself, I feel obligated to pay my parents' debt off for them as well. It would've been less if I didn't help my parents out a couple of months ago by taking out a loan to help them avoid foreclosure.
25
@15:
You DO realize, do you not, that since the 2005 federal bankruptcy regs went into effect, all student loans, regardless of source, are exempt from discharge when filing Chapter 7 or 11?
Better stick with that Business minor, like Mom and Dad said; I can tell you're going to be a lousy actor...
You DO realize, do you not, that since the 2005 federal bankruptcy regs went into effect, all student loans, regardless of source, are exempt from discharge when filing Chapter 7 or 11?
Better stick with that Business minor, like Mom and Dad said; I can tell you're going to be a lousy actor...
26
Dood, are you kidding? Do you have any idea how liberating it is to get out from under consumer debt?
We were at one point about 15K in debt. The day we sent off our last check was a thrill, and yes, we threw a little celebration for ourselves. It's like reaching the end of a marathon, or getting out of a bad relationship, or graduating. You've left the hard part behind.
They own nothing...what next? Well, how about an effective $1000+/month raise, for starters? How about 3 years, 7 months of acquiring better financial habits?
We were at one point about 15K in debt. The day we sent off our last check was a thrill, and yes, we threw a little celebration for ourselves. It's like reaching the end of a marathon, or getting out of a bad relationship, or graduating. You've left the hard part behind.
They own nothing...what next? Well, how about an effective $1000+/month raise, for starters? How about 3 years, 7 months of acquiring better financial habits?
29
I love that this is a question, not a flat statement. "Or do you realize now that you actually were never not free?" This story worked out the way this couple hoped. They were willing and able to shoulder many extra burdens to sweat out their payments, and live like church mice with no complications, for quite a long time. They worked very hard for this, and were able to stick it out. Something to warm hearts of Sloggers and Readers' Digest fans alike.
Nonetheless, someone reading this may feel trapped by a practical inability to follow in this couple's footsteps. It's not always possible to find extra work to make extra payments, or find that time to take on extra work, or even to be able to have your wages keep pace with the cost of living at the job you're lucky enough to be hanging onto. You and your deflated ego may be stuck making minimum payments, negotiating with creditors, for many years to come.
How thoughtful, then, to be reminded that among all this material uncertainty you remain a free person.
It's lovely.
Nonetheless, someone reading this may feel trapped by a practical inability to follow in this couple's footsteps. It's not always possible to find extra work to make extra payments, or find that time to take on extra work, or even to be able to have your wages keep pace with the cost of living at the job you're lucky enough to be hanging onto. You and your deflated ego may be stuck making minimum payments, negotiating with creditors, for many years to come.
How thoughtful, then, to be reminded that among all this material uncertainty you remain a free person.
It's lovely.
33
All these folks spouting off about how debt is evil are probably morons who thinks drugs should be legal.
How about making both legal? It'll help sort the dumb from the smart. Then let the dumb one live on Cap Hill and Rainier Valley...oh hold on, they already do.
How about making both legal? It'll help sort the dumb from the smart. Then let the dumb one live on Cap Hill and Rainier Valley...oh hold on, they already do.
34
oh get over it mr. I-must-be-the-only-person-in-seattle-to-have-read-wittgenstein-because-I'm-the-only-one-who-talks-about-it...
can't we just be happy for peoples' triumphs? can't we congratulate one another because we're in it together?
I'm proud of these folks for working hard and setting themselves straight with their financial lives.
now, what's next to discuss?
can't we just be happy for peoples' triumphs? can't we congratulate one another because we're in it together?
I'm proud of these folks for working hard and setting themselves straight with their financial lives.
now, what's next to discuss?
35
Charles,
If one gets into the credit game understanding the fact that it is a game, one should not be criticized too harshly for being somewhat of a winner...
If one gets into the credit game understanding the fact that it is a game, one should not be criticized too harshly for being somewhat of a winner...
36
It's when debt outweighs your assets that it gets stressful. Otherwise, a little debt service can go a long way.
37
Wow, there's a lot of unemployed broke people on this thread! You don't know the joy of being out from under a debt. I paid of my car just about 6 months ago. Best feeling in the world to know it was finally mine and, if my job went south, I wouldn't have to worry about making the payments and seeing a repo man tow it away.
38
@37, You don't know the joy of not having a car. It's much better. Repo man would have done you (and the rest of us) a favor.
39
I'm just interested in how they racked up over 40K in credit card debt -- how much of that is interest? -- because for me, it affects how the story reads.
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