Slog
News & ArtsMonday, April 13, 2009
International Be Honest
Posted by Eli Sanders on Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:30 AM
In general, who are you rooting for?
1
Dear people who voted pirates: Please stop watching Pirates of the Caribbean and recognize these guys for what they are.
2
Wow, those who voted for the "pirates" should be jailed for treason.
Unless by Pirates, you mean a baseball team from Pittsburgh.
One blotter said it best "Mariners 3, Pirates 0." Funny.
Unless by Pirates, you mean a baseball team from Pittsburgh.
One blotter said it best "Mariners 3, Pirates 0." Funny.
4
These are more of the rape, steal, and murder pirates and less of the silly hats and buried treasure pirates.
5
I voted for the USA (I look terrible with an earring, and I hate parrots) but I do have sympathy for the people of Somalia.
6
@4 Hmm I haven't heard of these pirates raping anybody.
And if they weren't from a failed state and had other options available to them maybe they wouldn't be out pirating. The pirates aren't going to go away until they have better alternatives.
And if they weren't from a failed state and had other options available to them maybe they wouldn't be out pirating. The pirates aren't going to go away until they have better alternatives.
7
I doubt that the people of Somalia support the pirates, just as the people of Mexico do not support the kidnappers in Mexico City. There is no difference between kidnapping on the open sea and tossing someone into a van on a city street - neither is particularly glamorous nor to be emulated.
8
I'm torn, my religion says that global warming will go away if there are more pirates. But America is pretty frickin cool.
Goddamn monday.
Goddamn monday.
9
@7 except that the Somali pirates are targeting foreign tankers and cargo ships, while mexican druglords are targeting their own countrymen. doesn't make it right, but it makes the poor us vs. rich them narrative work much better.
I mean, I'd be pretty pissed if I was starving, living in a failed state, and watching Lexuses drift by on big-ass ships constantly.
I mean, I'd be pretty pissed if I was starving, living in a failed state, and watching Lexuses drift by on big-ass ships constantly.
10
but the pirates are people of color! people of color fighting against white oppression! as a white seattle liberal I have to vote for the people of color no matter what
12
@9 - those poor, starving pirates are pulling down about 20 million bucks per successful ship-napping. It would suck to be a Somalian, but that doesn't excuse turning yourself into a rich international criminal douchebag.
15
yeah, I bet those pirates NEVER rape anyone... it's not like they come from a culture that allows this kind of shit to happen or anything... oh wait.
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/233371.ht…
Rape Victim, 13, Stoned to Death in Somalia
An Islamist rebel administration in Somalia had a 13-year-old girl stoned to death for adultery after the child's father reported that three men had raped her.
Amnesty International said the al-Shabab militia, which controls the southern port city of Kismayo, arranged for a group of 50 men to stone Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow in front of a crowd of about 1,000 spectators. A lorryload of stones was brought to the stadium for the killing.
Amnesty said that Duhulow struggled with her captors and had to be forcibly carried into the stadium.
"At one point during the stoning, Amnesty International has been told by numerous eyewitnesses that nurses were instructed to check whether Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow was still alive when buried in the ground. They removed her from the ground, declared that she was, and she was replaced in the hole where she had been buried for the stoning to continue," the human rights group said.
"Inside the stadium, militia members opened fire when some of the witnesses to the killing attempted to save her life, and shot dead a boy who was a bystander."
Amnesty said witnesses originally reported that Duhulow was 23-years-old, based on her appearance. But the human rights group found out from her father that she was a child.
Duhulow's father told Amnesty that when they tried to report her rape to the militia, the child was accused of adultery and detained. None of the men Duhulow accused was arrested.
"This was not justice, nor was it an execution," said Amnesty's Somalia campaigner, David Copeman. "This child suffered an horrendous death at the behest of the armed opposition groups who currently control Kismayo.
"This killing is yet another human rights abuse committed by the combatants to the conflict in Somalia, and again demonstrates the importance of international action to investigate and document such abuses, through an international commission of inquiry."Amnesty said al-Shabab had created a climate of fear in which government officials, journalists and human rights activists faced death threats and killing if they spoke against the militia.
More...
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/233371.ht…
Rape Victim, 13, Stoned to Death in Somalia
An Islamist rebel administration in Somalia had a 13-year-old girl stoned to death for adultery after the child's father reported that three men had raped her.
Amnesty International said the al-Shabab militia, which controls the southern port city of Kismayo, arranged for a group of 50 men to stone Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow in front of a crowd of about 1,000 spectators. A lorryload of stones was brought to the stadium for the killing.
Amnesty said that Duhulow struggled with her captors and had to be forcibly carried into the stadium.
"At one point during the stoning, Amnesty International has been told by numerous eyewitnesses that nurses were instructed to check whether Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow was still alive when buried in the ground. They removed her from the ground, declared that she was, and she was replaced in the hole where she had been buried for the stoning to continue," the human rights group said.
"Inside the stadium, militia members opened fire when some of the witnesses to the killing attempted to save her life, and shot dead a boy who was a bystander."
Amnesty said witnesses originally reported that Duhulow was 23-years-old, based on her appearance. But the human rights group found out from her father that she was a child.
Duhulow's father told Amnesty that when they tried to report her rape to the militia, the child was accused of adultery and detained. None of the men Duhulow accused was arrested.
"This was not justice, nor was it an execution," said Amnesty's Somalia campaigner, David Copeman. "This child suffered an horrendous death at the behest of the armed opposition groups who currently control Kismayo.
"This killing is yet another human rights abuse committed by the combatants to the conflict in Somalia, and again demonstrates the importance of international action to investigate and document such abuses, through an international commission of inquiry."Amnesty said al-Shabab had created a climate of fear in which government officials, journalists and human rights activists faced death threats and killing if they spoke against the militia.
16
#7 You're wrong.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090411/ap_o…
Although I doubt they're hijacking ships to be heroes, it's a side effect. The "pirate" areas of Somalia are more stable than the non-pirate areas.
Not that I think it's a good situation, and I feel bad for the hostages (who are well treated compared to some US prisoners I could mention)... but there you have it.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090411/ap_o…
Although I doubt they're hijacking ships to be heroes, it's a side effect. The "pirate" areas of Somalia are more stable than the non-pirate areas.
Not that I think it's a good situation, and I feel bad for the hostages (who are well treated compared to some US prisoners I could mention)... but there you have it.
17
http://current.com/items/89955802/somali…
Somalia: Islamists rape, and impregnate Canadian captive
Islam permits rape and forced impregnation of non-Muslim female captives. According to the sahih Hadith of Bukhari and Muslim, when Muslims were raping female captives, they asked Muhammad whether or not they should also perform coitus interruptus, and he is reported to have said either that it doesn't matter or that he preferred they didn't do coitus interruptus. That is, he preferred that they not do it, because it is Allah's will whether or not a baby would be born, and that they "could not turn it away." (Muhammad's preferred option of not using coitus interruptus would obviously lead to forced impregnation, or as Muhammad claimed, impregnation by Allah's will. The Quran states that Allah controls birth rates, women's wombs, and whether or not a baby will be conceived and born). Some of the Muslims wanted to practice coitus interruptus because they wanted to sell the women they had captured, and pregnant women captives (as per Islamic law) could not be sold until after the baby had been born.
The basis for rape of non-Muslim female captives comes from the Quran (23:5-6, 33:50-52, 4:24, 70:29-30; also see mainstream commentaries by Ibn Kathir, Al-Jalalayn, Ibn Abbas, et al.), the Hadith, the Sira, Muhammad's example conduct (see Quran 33:21) and the conduct of the male Companions (e.g., Khalid bin Walid, Ali, et al.), and mainstream Islamic law. Muslim males have been raping non-Muslim female captives with the approval of Islamic doctrine for the past approximately 1400 years, and this practice continues throughout the world today, wherever Muslim populations come into contact with non-Muslim populations.
From Tabari, an example of rape and forced impregnation policy as celebrated by a jihadist:
(Tabari IX:25): "By Allah, I did not come to Fight for nothing. I wanted a victory over Ta'if so that I might obtain a slave girl from them and make her pregnant.”
More...
Somalia: Islamists rape, and impregnate Canadian captive
Islam permits rape and forced impregnation of non-Muslim female captives. According to the sahih Hadith of Bukhari and Muslim, when Muslims were raping female captives, they asked Muhammad whether or not they should also perform coitus interruptus, and he is reported to have said either that it doesn't matter or that he preferred they didn't do coitus interruptus. That is, he preferred that they not do it, because it is Allah's will whether or not a baby would be born, and that they "could not turn it away." (Muhammad's preferred option of not using coitus interruptus would obviously lead to forced impregnation, or as Muhammad claimed, impregnation by Allah's will. The Quran states that Allah controls birth rates, women's wombs, and whether or not a baby will be conceived and born). Some of the Muslims wanted to practice coitus interruptus because they wanted to sell the women they had captured, and pregnant women captives (as per Islamic law) could not be sold until after the baby had been born.
The basis for rape of non-Muslim female captives comes from the Quran (23:5-6, 33:50-52, 4:24, 70:29-30; also see mainstream commentaries by Ibn Kathir, Al-Jalalayn, Ibn Abbas, et al.), the Hadith, the Sira, Muhammad's example conduct (see Quran 33:21) and the conduct of the male Companions (e.g., Khalid bin Walid, Ali, et al.), and mainstream Islamic law. Muslim males have been raping non-Muslim female captives with the approval of Islamic doctrine for the past approximately 1400 years, and this practice continues throughout the world today, wherever Muslim populations come into contact with non-Muslim populations.
From Tabari, an example of rape and forced impregnation policy as celebrated by a jihadist:
(Tabari IX:25): "By Allah, I did not come to Fight for nothing. I wanted a victory over Ta'if so that I might obtain a slave girl from them and make her pregnant.”
18
Dear people who voted United States: stop being a humorless patronizing shit.
Also, these pirates are pretty chill on the whole. They've hardly killed anyone (a hell of a lot less people than Coca-Cola has in the 3rd world) and have possibly been more effective than international aid in distributing funding. And Somalis, if you'd bothered to, y'know, actually read something before being a twattish douchenozzle, are generally pro-pirate or indifferent. These have nothing in common with the Mexican drug lords except that their financial activities aren't legitimized by state recognition either. They're mostly a bunch of poor-ass fisherman who can't fish anymore because other countries are plundering the fuck out of Somalian waters. Good NYTimes article on it.
Also, these pirates are pretty chill on the whole. They've hardly killed anyone (a hell of a lot less people than Coca-Cola has in the 3rd world) and have possibly been more effective than international aid in distributing funding. And Somalis, if you'd bothered to, y'know, actually read something before being a twattish douchenozzle, are generally pro-pirate or indifferent. These have nothing in common with the Mexican drug lords except that their financial activities aren't legitimized by state recognition either. They're mostly a bunch of poor-ass fisherman who can't fish anymore because other countries are plundering the fuck out of Somalian waters. Good NYTimes article on it.
20
http://www.topnews.in/civilians-somalia-…
Civilians in Somalia are targets of rape and murder
Submitted by Mohit Joshi on Mon, 12/08/2008 - 12:18.
Human Right Watch LogoNairobi - All warring parties in Somalia have committed war crimes against civilians including rape, murder and the use of people as human shields, a human rights' body said Monday.
"The combatants in Somalia have inflicted more harm on civilians than on each other," said Georgette Gagnon, Africa director at Human Rights Watch.
Civilians in Somalia are targets of rape and murder
Submitted by Mohit Joshi on Mon, 12/08/2008 - 12:18.
Human Right Watch LogoNairobi - All warring parties in Somalia have committed war crimes against civilians including rape, murder and the use of people as human shields, a human rights' body said Monday.
"The combatants in Somalia have inflicted more harm on civilians than on each other," said Georgette Gagnon, Africa director at Human Rights Watch.
22
http://allafrica.com/stories/20071026119…
Somalia: Women Plagued By Rape As Crime Rules Collapsed State
26 October 2007
Galkayo — Sexual violence remains part of daily life for many women living in camps for internally displaced people.
According to the United Nations refugee agency UNHCR, after years of war rape has become a threat to women in Somalia whenever they move along roads, due to the presence of militia at illegal roadblocks and in IDP settlements such as Galkayo, which hosts about 50,000 persons.
One of them, 33-year-old Hibo, a widow, told UNHCR that security had improved slightly since a small police station was built nearby. "However, three women were still assaulted each night, she told UNHCR. "I don't expect much help from the police. They cannot do anything and the culprit might take revenge if I dare complain," she said.
Farhia, an aid worker explained that there was not much she could do. "Rape remains a strong taboo in Somali society. A young woman who has been raped will not be able to find a husband, while a married woman is frequently thrown out by her husband," she explained.
A nurse said, "Women are raped almost daily on the isolated outskirts of the town. We systematically do a tetanus shot; since young Somali women are genitally mutilated and infibulated, rapists always use a knife to rip their vagina open.
"We encourage them to talk because we want to make sure they won't commit suicide. But sometimes we find out the truth only when it is too late. We also care for several pregnant women who look perfectly normal. Once they deliver, they kill their baby and this is how we understood that they had been raped."
Rape has been a Somali disease ever since the central government collapsed 17 years ago, she said. The nurse said perpetrators were rarely brought to justice; that cases were usually dealt with through traditional means, with the attacker having to pay compensation to the victim's father or husband, but never to her.
To ensure survivors of sexual violence receive support, a network of UN agencies including UNHCR, UNFPA and UNICEF has launched a Sexual and Gender-Based Violence (SGBV) prevention and response plan. The plan will build upon local NGOs, where fully committed Somali men and women intend to put an end to sexual violence.
More...
Somalia: Women Plagued By Rape As Crime Rules Collapsed State
26 October 2007
Galkayo — Sexual violence remains part of daily life for many women living in camps for internally displaced people.
According to the United Nations refugee agency UNHCR, after years of war rape has become a threat to women in Somalia whenever they move along roads, due to the presence of militia at illegal roadblocks and in IDP settlements such as Galkayo, which hosts about 50,000 persons.
One of them, 33-year-old Hibo, a widow, told UNHCR that security had improved slightly since a small police station was built nearby. "However, three women were still assaulted each night, she told UNHCR. "I don't expect much help from the police. They cannot do anything and the culprit might take revenge if I dare complain," she said.
Farhia, an aid worker explained that there was not much she could do. "Rape remains a strong taboo in Somali society. A young woman who has been raped will not be able to find a husband, while a married woman is frequently thrown out by her husband," she explained.
A nurse said, "Women are raped almost daily on the isolated outskirts of the town. We systematically do a tetanus shot; since young Somali women are genitally mutilated and infibulated, rapists always use a knife to rip their vagina open.
"We encourage them to talk because we want to make sure they won't commit suicide. But sometimes we find out the truth only when it is too late. We also care for several pregnant women who look perfectly normal. Once they deliver, they kill their baby and this is how we understood that they had been raped."
Rape has been a Somali disease ever since the central government collapsed 17 years ago, she said. The nurse said perpetrators were rarely brought to justice; that cases were usually dealt with through traditional means, with the attacker having to pay compensation to the victim's father or husband, but never to her.
To ensure survivors of sexual violence receive support, a network of UN agencies including UNHCR, UNFPA and UNICEF has launched a Sexual and Gender-Based Violence (SGBV) prevention and response plan. The plan will build upon local NGOs, where fully committed Somali men and women intend to put an end to sexual violence.
23
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2007/1…
[ Friday, 07 December 2007 ]
"Women are raped at checkpoints in broad daylight"
UNICEF shocked by rampant rape in Somalia
NAIROBI (AFP)
The United Nations Children's Fund's representative for Somalia on Friday voiced his concern at the increasing number of rape cases in the country's war-torn capital Mogadishu.
"Sexual violence and rape are part of the game now," Christian Balslev-Olesen said at a press briefing on the deteriorating access to health in Mogadishu.
"We had not seen the level and kind of open violence against civilian populations that we are seeing now," he said, citing several instances of women being raped at checkpoints in broad daylight.
All parties involved in the conflict are involved in sexual violence, although aid workers on the ground said rapes were mainly committed by government militias and their Ethiopian allies.
"The people who were not able to leave Mogadishu seem to be in a situation that we have never, ever seen in the past 16 to 17 years," the UNICEF official said.
Hundreds of thousands of people have fled the fighting in Mogadishu in recent months, leaving six out of 16 districts in the capital almost completely empty.
Waves of displaced people are flooding nearby camps and seeking shelter with relatives across the country, but those who stay behind are facing unprecedented abuses and violence.
UNICEF noted that children were increasingly at risk, with 80 percent of all schools closed in Mogadishu.
The U.N. agency also said that children were being recruited by government militias and Islamist insurgents alike, thus making them "legitimate targets" in the conflict.
Any movement inside Mogadishu exposes civilians to deadly risks and the multiplication of checkpoints manned by extortionist government militias and warlords in and around the city are making any bid to flee equally perilous.
Checkpoints have also greatly impeded civilians' access to health, leaving victims of shelling and other fighting unable to receive medical assistance.
"People bleed to death in their houses," said one aid worker.
"We are therefore appealing to everyone involved in this conflict to allow women and children safe passage across the city so that they can access basic, life-saving medical services," Balslev-Olesen said.
Ethiopian troops last year came to the rescue of the transitional Somali government and defeated an Islamist militia that briefly controlled large parts of the country.
The Islamist movement's remnants have since reverted to urban guerrilla tactics, launching hit-and-run attacks in Mogadishu which have drawn a heavy government response.
More...
[ Friday, 07 December 2007 ]
"Women are raped at checkpoints in broad daylight"
UNICEF shocked by rampant rape in Somalia
NAIROBI (AFP)
The United Nations Children's Fund's representative for Somalia on Friday voiced his concern at the increasing number of rape cases in the country's war-torn capital Mogadishu.
"Sexual violence and rape are part of the game now," Christian Balslev-Olesen said at a press briefing on the deteriorating access to health in Mogadishu.
"We had not seen the level and kind of open violence against civilian populations that we are seeing now," he said, citing several instances of women being raped at checkpoints in broad daylight.
All parties involved in the conflict are involved in sexual violence, although aid workers on the ground said rapes were mainly committed by government militias and their Ethiopian allies.
"The people who were not able to leave Mogadishu seem to be in a situation that we have never, ever seen in the past 16 to 17 years," the UNICEF official said.
Hundreds of thousands of people have fled the fighting in Mogadishu in recent months, leaving six out of 16 districts in the capital almost completely empty.
Waves of displaced people are flooding nearby camps and seeking shelter with relatives across the country, but those who stay behind are facing unprecedented abuses and violence.
UNICEF noted that children were increasingly at risk, with 80 percent of all schools closed in Mogadishu.
The U.N. agency also said that children were being recruited by government militias and Islamist insurgents alike, thus making them "legitimate targets" in the conflict.
Any movement inside Mogadishu exposes civilians to deadly risks and the multiplication of checkpoints manned by extortionist government militias and warlords in and around the city are making any bid to flee equally perilous.
Checkpoints have also greatly impeded civilians' access to health, leaving victims of shelling and other fighting unable to receive medical assistance.
"People bleed to death in their houses," said one aid worker.
"We are therefore appealing to everyone involved in this conflict to allow women and children safe passage across the city so that they can access basic, life-saving medical services," Balslev-Olesen said.
Ethiopian troops last year came to the rescue of the transitional Somali government and defeated an Islamist militia that briefly controlled large parts of the country.
The Islamist movement's remnants have since reverted to urban guerrilla tactics, launching hit-and-run attacks in Mogadishu which have drawn a heavy government response.
24
We should just nuke them all and be done with it. I mean, what the fuck do we care? The whole world hates us anyway.
26
Ooooh, snap. Thanks. I just might. ;)
It's worth noting that the Islamic Courts Union got its ass kicked, in part, because it's not representative of Somalis as a whole. Also, I'm not sure how culturally endemic misogyny correlates to piracy, but whatevs.
It's worth noting that the Islamic Courts Union got its ass kicked, in part, because it's not representative of Somalis as a whole. Also, I'm not sure how culturally endemic misogyny correlates to piracy, but whatevs.
29
In general I'm always voting for the pirates, software pirates,, music pirate, game pirate, dress up pirates, pirate culture, pirate pirate pirate, however it's more likely this is about a different kind of pirate and not the kind that would be closer tied to socialism.
Now when it comes to the kind of pirates who kidnap people and hold them for ransom I'm not the biggest fan, especially when they use violent force. I think it's very possible to be a pacifist pirate, and the majority of pirates out there are. I'm not a fan of the Somalia pirates as they give us all a bad name, the majority of us like to get drunk, smoke pot, loot, plunder, shag and carry on without needlessly killing or threatening people. We can have plenty fun without violence, the pirates will forever have my heart.
Now when it comes to the kind of pirates who kidnap people and hold them for ransom I'm not the biggest fan, especially when they use violent force. I think it's very possible to be a pacifist pirate, and the majority of pirates out there are. I'm not a fan of the Somalia pirates as they give us all a bad name, the majority of us like to get drunk, smoke pot, loot, plunder, shag and carry on without needlessly killing or threatening people. We can have plenty fun without violence, the pirates will forever have my heart.
31
http://pretoria.unic.org/index.php/news-…
United Nations Information Centre Pretoria
Grave violations against children increasing in Somalia, UN report says
News & Media
Wednesday, 11 June 2008 10:46
The number of grave human rights violations against children in Somalia, from acts of murder and rape to the recruitment of child soldiers to the denial of humanitarian access to those in need, have all increased in the past year, Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said today in a new report to the Security Council.
United Nations Information Centre Pretoria
Grave violations against children increasing in Somalia, UN report says
News & Media
Wednesday, 11 June 2008 10:46
The number of grave human rights violations against children in Somalia, from acts of murder and rape to the recruitment of child soldiers to the denial of humanitarian access to those in need, have all increased in the past year, Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said today in a new report to the Security Council.
32
http://www.thestar.com/News/World/articl…
Somalia a land of chaos, awash in weapons
"There's no economy ... so we use guns to rob people to feed our families," a militia member in a Somali border town admitted to Saywell. Another added chillingly: "We steal things and rape women with them."
Somalia a land of chaos, awash in weapons
"There's no economy ... so we use guns to rob people to feed our families," a militia member in a Somali border town admitted to Saywell. Another added chillingly: "We steal things and rape women with them."
33
http://www.politics.co.uk/news/policing-…
...
A report by the Refugee Council found three quarters of refugee women have been victims of rape, in their home country and in the UK, and 15 per cent became pregnant as a result of their ordeal.
Donna Covey, chief executive of the Refugee Council said: "We are all aware that rape and sexual violence are commonplace in conflict situations, and our project confirms this. However, what is truly shocking is that women continue to suffer when they come to the UK."
In addition to these horrifying statistics the report also found 22 per cent of women were sexually abused, 9 per cent have gynaecological problems as a result of the abuse they encountered and 5 per cent gave birth to a child as a result of rape.
The main countries of origin are; Sri Lanka, Eritrea, Democratic Republic of Congo, Ivory Coast and Somalia.
...
A report by the Refugee Council found three quarters of refugee women have been victims of rape, in their home country and in the UK, and 15 per cent became pregnant as a result of their ordeal.
Donna Covey, chief executive of the Refugee Council said: "We are all aware that rape and sexual violence are commonplace in conflict situations, and our project confirms this. However, what is truly shocking is that women continue to suffer when they come to the UK."
In addition to these horrifying statistics the report also found 22 per cent of women were sexually abused, 9 per cent have gynaecological problems as a result of the abuse they encountered and 5 per cent gave birth to a child as a result of rape.
The main countries of origin are; Sri Lanka, Eritrea, Democratic Republic of Congo, Ivory Coast and Somalia.
34
I always support the underdog, the more overwhelming the odds the more I want to see the little guy win. David over Goliath, every time.
A handful of broke fishermen fighting the biggest military in the world in order to make a few bucks from an international oil company? No contest. Go pirates.
A handful of broke fishermen fighting the biggest military in the world in order to make a few bucks from an international oil company? No contest. Go pirates.
36
A handful of savage rapists with guns and machetes versus the civilized world? No contest. Go live with the rapists, Gurldoggie. Are you a white woman? They will love you!
37
The more law enforcement officers there are chasing the murdering rapist, the more I want to see the murdering rapist win!
39
If only we could just hug and love all the pirates, they would stop with all that raping and killing and get into progressive causes!
41
THIS is the negative press that will come from this incident. The Stranger was calling this incident all positive for Obama. I can tell you I have heard comments from several liberals who feel that the support they hear for the pirates makes them feel that they should be more conservative in their politics. Sounds like I'm talking out my ass but seriously this incident will move the majority or Americans to be more conservative over the sickening sympathy for the pirates.
42
Are you, @36, an example of the civilized world that I'm supposed to embrace? With your tiny little mind, knee-jerk nativism and threats of rape? Thanks but no thanks. I'll stick with my original answer and take my chances with the pirates.
43
So, I was wondering-- what's up with that weirdo trustafarian libtard who keeps shrieking about the savage somalis? Is "INFERIOR PEOPLE!!" the new "RON PAUL!!" or what?
44
They are only into rape and murder because they are so oppressed.
If we can just get them to listen to NPR and Terri Gross and Fresh Air and Amy Goodman, then they will almost instantly become enlightened saints and rocket scientists. All they need is a second, third, fourth, and fifth chance!
If we can just get them to listen to NPR and Terri Gross and Fresh Air and Amy Goodman, then they will almost instantly become enlightened saints and rocket scientists. All they need is a second, third, fourth, and fifth chance!
45
@42 - oh yeah, because I stand for civilization and against rape and murder, I must be a "knee-jerk nativist".
You are almost a parody of retarded Seattle liberal stereotypes!
You are almost a parody of retarded Seattle liberal stereotypes!
46
I am organizing a "Support the Revolutionary Somalian Pirate Community" rally to take place at Westlake Center at 3:30 this afternoon. Check seattle.indymedia.org for details.
47
So Stranger admin is going to let this kind of sockpuppetry stand? Whatever.
@46 and all your other aliases,
If you hate those "inferior" people so much, what the fuck do you care if they're killing and raping each other? Go find something that actually affects you to worry about, like that black guy in your neighborhood who totally made you wet your pants that one time he said "hello" to you.
@46 and all your other aliases,
If you hate those "inferior" people so much, what the fuck do you care if they're killing and raping each other? Go find something that actually affects you to worry about, like that black guy in your neighborhood who totally made you wet your pants that one time he said "hello" to you.
48
A Slog poll that makes me feel good about the state of things? My God, I might just have to write it down in my personal webblog.
50
@47 - I can't believe it either! The Stranger is not going to censor all those stories about the Somali rape culture epidemic? What the FUCK?
How am I supposed to remain a good naive Seattle progressive liberal with all these awful factual stories about people that I personally consider to be noble savages?
I demand censorship of facts that I do not personally agree with!!!
How am I supposed to remain a good naive Seattle progressive liberal with all these awful factual stories about people that I personally consider to be noble savages?
I demand censorship of facts that I do not personally agree with!!!
51
I mean, Jesus! Who the fuck does the UN think they are, publishing awful racist propaganda like that!
52
Eli,
I think you should stay away from trying to be cute about Somali criminals.
Maybe a poll on best hipster cafes on Capitol Hill?
I think you should stay away from trying to be cute about Somali criminals.
Maybe a poll on best hipster cafes on Capitol Hill?
53
Since I don't rape and kill or steal, ever, then yes, I actually AM "superior" to them, and they actually ARE "inferior" to me.
54
I don't really blame the pirates. We're only seeing one side of the story. European countries have been dumping toxic waste in their waters and decimating their fisheries with commercial trawlers, because there is no government in Somalia to stand up to it. A lot of these guys were fishermen who were put out of business and now they're pissed off and starving. If I was them I'd hoist the black flag and start slitting throats too.
See: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-har…
Beside, everyone who's played with Legos knows that the British are the natural enemies of pirates, not Americans.
See: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-har…
Beside, everyone who's played with Legos knows that the British are the natural enemies of pirates, not Americans.
55
@28: You nailed it. Words to live by!
@6: Yes, one way to make the pirates go away would be if we tried to fix their state, so that they had better options to piracy. But didn't work so well for the U.S. back in the early 90s. But since I'm a good liberal, I'll put myself in the midset of the pirates: piracy is all about the relative value of the options. Making Somalia liveable is probable beyond what the western world can realistically accomplish. But I think we could, if we made a concerted effort, make the piracy option really really unliveable.
@6: Yes, one way to make the pirates go away would be if we tried to fix their state, so that they had better options to piracy. But didn't work so well for the U.S. back in the early 90s. But since I'm a good liberal, I'll put myself in the midset of the pirates: piracy is all about the relative value of the options. Making Somalia liveable is probable beyond what the western world can realistically accomplish. But I think we could, if we made a concerted effort, make the piracy option really really unliveable.
56
Obviously it was the evil white man who forced these poor pirates of color to rape, kill, and steal.
57
If I say pirates, is there going to be a knock at my door with a non-smiling, middle-aged man in a blue suit showing me a badge from the Department of Homeland Securities?
58
Hmm, perhaps if we sent food and supplies to Africa instead of bullets some Somalis wouldn't become pirates.
What? The ship had 5,000 metric tons of relief supplies bound for Somalia, Uganda, and Kenya? What? The pirates weren't trying to "liberate" the supplies, they just wanted a cash payment, thus making it harder and more expensive to help Africans?
(Sound of jumping out window.)
What? The ship had 5,000 metric tons of relief supplies bound for Somalia, Uganda, and Kenya? What? The pirates weren't trying to "liberate" the supplies, they just wanted a cash payment, thus making it harder and more expensive to help Africans?
(Sound of jumping out window.)
59
well as a good Seattle trustafarian liberal, I have to go with the people of color, even though I totally hate guns, because people of color trumps guns, even when the people of color are using their guns somewhat irresponsibly, since they are the underdogs and since they are people of color I have to overlook their irresponsible gun use, especially if they are using those guns to fight evil white people and their oppressive ways
61
I find the poll insultingly simplistic, but I guess that's what polls are.
The pirates pulled guns on people. They tacitly accepted the risk of being shot.
The captain and crew of the freighter did not deserve anything like this to happen. Of course I’m rooting for the captain’s return to his family.
Sock Puppet Guy, if you had a family, and over the course of years, your livelihood was taken away by giant 1st world factory trawlers, and toxic waste dumpers you would undoubtedly take up arms, and do whatever it took to feed your kids. Have a little empathy. Are you a typical conservative, that is all for rugged individualism until you are in trouble? (See Wall Street Bailouts and Corporate Welfare) Actions of the powerful have consequences. There would be no piracy if Somalia had a just and fair government, and the West could act ethically.
Does that make the Pirates the good guys? No. They’ve made choices they have to live with. Taking innocent people hostage is inexcusable, but how they got to that point is understandable, and avoidable.
The world is actually more complicated than the script for an action movie, Sock Puppet Guy.
The pirates pulled guns on people. They tacitly accepted the risk of being shot.
The captain and crew of the freighter did not deserve anything like this to happen. Of course I’m rooting for the captain’s return to his family.
Sock Puppet Guy, if you had a family, and over the course of years, your livelihood was taken away by giant 1st world factory trawlers, and toxic waste dumpers you would undoubtedly take up arms, and do whatever it took to feed your kids. Have a little empathy. Are you a typical conservative, that is all for rugged individualism until you are in trouble? (See Wall Street Bailouts and Corporate Welfare) Actions of the powerful have consequences. There would be no piracy if Somalia had a just and fair government, and the West could act ethically.
Does that make the Pirates the good guys? No. They’ve made choices they have to live with. Taking innocent people hostage is inexcusable, but how they got to that point is understandable, and avoidable.
The world is actually more complicated than the script for an action movie, Sock Puppet Guy.
62
Protest in support of the Coalition for Understanding and Sympathizing with Rapists, Thieves, and Murderers at Westlake Center @ 5 pm!
63
somalia is actually worse than a failed state. i mean, the congo is a failed state, somalia is a mass of land where the "goverment" controls 3 blocks in mogadishu. the rest of the country is run by clans. there is no goverment and they will bust a cap on your ass. somalia is complete chaos and the areas where the pirates come from is the only " stable" part of somalia meaning that you wont be shot going out to take a dump in your back yard.
the pirates are only doing this to survive. nobody jumped when the rich fishing waters off the coast were open to international fishing companies, pretty much starving all the somali fishermen. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU would be out there pirating if it meant that or starving. Somalia is doomed, and theyre about to have a famine to top things off. Most of the time the pirates have not shot anybody. theyre there for the loot, but after the SEALS busted a cap on a couple of em, that's all about to change, but if youre going to starve anyway, than it doesnt matter.
the pirates are only doing this to survive. nobody jumped when the rich fishing waters off the coast were open to international fishing companies, pretty much starving all the somali fishermen. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU would be out there pirating if it meant that or starving. Somalia is doomed, and theyre about to have a famine to top things off. Most of the time the pirates have not shot anybody. theyre there for the loot, but after the SEALS busted a cap on a couple of em, that's all about to change, but if youre going to starve anyway, than it doesnt matter.
64
Seriously, what part of "America! Fuck Yeah!" do you Pirate wannabees not understand?
If you take away the romance of the sea you'll find they are just petty common criminals. There is nothing creative or productive about their existence. They are the parasites of civilization.
If you take away the romance of the sea you'll find they are just petty common criminals. There is nothing creative or productive about their existence. They are the parasites of civilization.
66
@ 12 "those poor, starving pirates are pulling down about 20 million bucks per successful ship-napping. It would suck to be a Somalian, but that doesn't excuse turning yourself into a rich international criminal douchebag."
So what would you call the CEOs of most major corporations?
So what would you call the CEOs of most major corporations?
68
navy seals showed those punk ass bitches what 'merica's all about. 3 shots, 3 dead pirates. in the dark. on choppy waters.
bring 'em on.
bring 'em on.
69
@62 - I sure hope you have a permit for that time, because the Committee for Understanding Terrorist Negroes (C.U.N.T.) is scheduled to hold OUR protest at Westlake Center today at 5pm, and WE SHALL NOT BE MOVED!!!!!
73
@72 - way to be a humorless cunt who doesn't even realize there is more than one smartass on slog
75
I say fuck the pirates. They got what should come to anyone brandishing weapons against innocent people.
Poverty makes us do insane things, but that doesn't mean they're excusable things. What do the folks onboard these ships, the ones just trying to do their jobs, have to do with the injustices of international commerce? Do they strike you as a worthy target for the sins of capitalism? Should I go to New York and find somebody walking around in the financial district, put a gun to his head, and demand a ransom just because the credit crash drained my dad's retirement funds?
Those of you romaticizing these miscreants are seriously misguided.
Poverty makes us do insane things, but that doesn't mean they're excusable things. What do the folks onboard these ships, the ones just trying to do their jobs, have to do with the injustices of international commerce? Do they strike you as a worthy target for the sins of capitalism? Should I go to New York and find somebody walking around in the financial district, put a gun to his head, and demand a ransom just because the credit crash drained my dad's retirement funds?
Those of you romaticizing these miscreants are seriously misguided.
76
ok people, ask yourself this question. but first put yourself in the shoes of the kidnapped captain.
here's the question...am i rooting for the guy pointing a gun at MY head, or the guy pointing a gun at HIS head?
here's the question...am i rooting for the guy pointing a gun at MY head, or the guy pointing a gun at HIS head?
78
Wow, Eli Sanders must have really hit a nerve with that Storm Front troll! I'm surprised he hasn't tossed in some insults involving Obama, Islam, and Damn Foreigners yet.
79
I can see the headline now at right wing blogs, I can already hear this (not literally) on local right wing radio stations: %26 of Stranger fans support Somali pirates.
Har har har. I probably shouldn't be surprised. A big demographic of Stranger readers (hedonistic, apathetic, cynical, spoiled, capitol hill-lurking 20 & 30-somethings) tirelessly fawn over how cool and hip pirates, pimps, gangsters and zombies are. All of which are hands down despicable, rotten people but who cares about that if you never deal with them face to face, right? "Our military is facing down pirates halfway around the world?! ha ha ha!! how funny and and awesome, that pirates are still a danger in the world today, in the 21st century!"
So what's next, a poll asking how many of you hope Pakistan and its nukes are taken over by al Qaida? Grow up people
Har har har. I probably shouldn't be surprised. A big demographic of Stranger readers (hedonistic, apathetic, cynical, spoiled, capitol hill-lurking 20 & 30-somethings) tirelessly fawn over how cool and hip pirates, pimps, gangsters and zombies are. All of which are hands down despicable, rotten people but who cares about that if you never deal with them face to face, right? "Our military is facing down pirates halfway around the world?! ha ha ha!! how funny and and awesome, that pirates are still a danger in the world today, in the 21st century!"
So what's next, a poll asking how many of you hope Pakistan and its nukes are taken over by al Qaida? Grow up people
80
@41- Actually, I've been thinking today, I'm right there. I've been surprised to read all sorts of things today online from extreme lefties in support of the Somali pirates. And I'm way out there. I think 9/11 was probably an inside job. I want America to offer apologies and reparations to the Iraqi people. I think it should be mandatory for Americans to grow pot and hemp in their yards. I can go on. But these apologists for Somali piracy make me sick and today for the first time in a loooong time have had me thinking, "well I'm glad I'm not THAT liberal."
81
I had previously read the story linked by #54, hence my vote for the pirates. However, I agree that the poll is overly simplistic and I can't completely support or condemn either side.
btw, Rush Limbaugh is now comparing the pirates to American liberals.
Somali pirates = American liberals
American liberals = Somali pirates.
Rush's gut = oil tanker.
btw, Rush Limbaugh is now comparing the pirates to American liberals.
Somali pirates = American liberals
American liberals = Somali pirates.
Rush's gut = oil tanker.
83
@78 - yeah, because you definitely have to be some kind of Stormfront White Supremacist to post stories about Somali rape culture that come straight from the United Nations and Human Rights Watch.
Sheesh! Some of you really ARE almost parodies of retarded white-guilt Seattle liberals.
Almost.
Sheesh! Some of you really ARE almost parodies of retarded white-guilt Seattle liberals.
Almost.
85
it is funny how stating facts can make you a racist yet ignoring facts makes you enlightened to some people.
86
How can anyone root for the pirates? They have no moral high ground to stand on. Thery're mercenaries, pure and simple. They're in it for the money, nothing more. They're the Crips and the Bloods, with boats. Swat 'em like flies, I say.
87
The only way I could see voting for the pirates as the "underdogs" would be if they weren't screwing up aid shipments. But they are. http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-04-0…
88
The reason some people are rooting for the pirates is that it's very slightly amusing and they know it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever, to the slightest degree, whether you root for the pirates or you don't root for the pirates. Sitting on your couch or barstool or crapper rooting for the pirates will not make one more or one less ship get attacked, and it will not make an iota of difference as to whether efforts to thwart the pirates succeed or fail. You are not the Somali pirates' "12th man", and never will be.
Just pointing out the utterly, utterly obvious.
Just pointing out the utterly, utterly obvious.
92
elenchos,
Actually, people's attitudes to the pirates could make a big difference in how the United States and other democratic countries choose to deal with the pirates that they capture.
Do you know what's going to happen to those pirates? Do you know whether they get full blown trials with all Constitutional rights, or if they get military tribunals, or are governed by admiralty, or law of the sea, or the old piracy rules that said if you're a pirate your life is forfeit?
When the law is unclear, politics creeps in. And in a democracy, politics is affected by what people think.
Actually, people's attitudes to the pirates could make a big difference in how the United States and other democratic countries choose to deal with the pirates that they capture.
Do you know what's going to happen to those pirates? Do you know whether they get full blown trials with all Constitutional rights, or if they get military tribunals, or are governed by admiralty, or law of the sea, or the old piracy rules that said if you're a pirate your life is forfeit?
When the law is unclear, politics creeps in. And in a democracy, politics is affected by what people think.
93
@92
That's funny, because I remember a few years back, some (like Stanley Fish? Somebody like that IIRC) were pointing out that we had very clear, very specific, 200+ year old laws saying exactly what we should do with pirates, and that we could apply those same tried and true guiding principles for what to do with terrorists. Bush did otherwise, but I bet Obama will simply follow the law without worrying about how any polls turn out.
That's funny, because I remember a few years back, some (like Stanley Fish? Somebody like that IIRC) were pointing out that we had very clear, very specific, 200+ year old laws saying exactly what we should do with pirates, and that we could apply those same tried and true guiding principles for what to do with terrorists. Bush did otherwise, but I bet Obama will simply follow the law without worrying about how any polls turn out.
94
elenchos,
please go kill yourself. you aren't making any friends here
signed,
the collective internets
please go kill yourself. you aren't making any friends here
signed,
the collective internets
96
e@93- the latest Economist talks about the fact that, gulp, the majority of Americans are *against* closing Guantanamo, 50%-44%. I hope you're right about the rule of law.
98
@94
It's sad how hard you try to pretend there is more than one of you. You're one fucking guy. You hate my elenchos persona. We get it. Thank you.
Get over it. You have no followers. You're ONE fucking guy. Pathetic.
It's sad how hard you try to pretend there is more than one of you. You're one fucking guy. You hate my elenchos persona. We get it. Thank you.
Get over it. You have no followers. You're ONE fucking guy. Pathetic.
99
no I'm the one guy who hates you elenchos, that other person is some other person who hates you, honest
100
You could form a little club. You could have a clubhouse and a flag and a secret handshake. Both of you could sit in the dark and gnash your teeth at how much you hate the mighty elenchos, who rules your world and fills your every waking moment with bitter tears. It would be pathetic too, but at least it would be sort of remarkable. At least go register elenchossucks.com and put up animated gifs and marquee scrolling text and wallpaper like all the nutter sites do.
101
no we would rather come on here and torture you with our mean comments because it is more amusing
103
Yes, please don't stop the, um, "torture", either. I mean in addition. I would do this much differently if I wasn't in it for the attention, you know.
104
Oh those scampy pirates-of-color! You are so adorable when you threaten to hunt down and kill Americans! That's the kind of thing that white Seattle hipster douches just love!!! Stealing food and/or hindering its delivery to starving Africans is just another form of Freedom Fighting, it is part of the struggle against white privilege, my prof at Evergreen told me so!
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=…
MOMBASA, Kenya (AP) - Somali pirates vowed to hunt down American ships and kill their sailors and French forces detained 11 other brigands in a high-seas raid as tensions ratcheted up Wednesday off Africa's volatile eastern coast.
Pirates fired grenades and automatic weapons at an American freighter loaded with food aid but the ship escaped and was heading to Kenya under U.S. Navy guard.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=…
MOMBASA, Kenya (AP) - Somali pirates vowed to hunt down American ships and kill their sailors and French forces detained 11 other brigands in a high-seas raid as tensions ratcheted up Wednesday off Africa's volatile eastern coast.
Pirates fired grenades and automatic weapons at an American freighter loaded with food aid but the ship escaped and was heading to Kenya under U.S. Navy guard.
105
Personally, I think elenchos and his/her haters could ALL be the same commenter. Whatever, it CAN be pretty entertaining, even if the discussion seems to be mostly eating itself, to the exclusion of whatever point was raised in the original SLOG.
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