Slog
News & ArtsSaturday, April 11, 2009
Crime Shooting In the Central District
Posted by Jonah Spangenthal-Lee on Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 11:16 PM
Getting emailed reports of gunfire near MLK S and South Irving. Several medical units were dispatched to a house on Irving about an hour ago, but SPD could not confirm whether there was a shooting.
More info as it's available.
Update: Central District News says:
A 911 caller reports that a girl has been shot in the 2700 block of S. Irving. Gunshot wounds to the foot and right arm. Medics on scene.
Update: According to the Seattle Police Department, officers were called to the 2700 block of S Irving Street around 10:15 p.m. after receiving reports of gunfire.
When police arrived, they found a 22-year-old woman who had been shot in the hand and foot. The woman was transported to Harborview and police do not believe her injuries are life-threatening.
No arrests have been made. SPD's gang unit is handling the investigation.
2
BTW, last night up here on the Northside (north of the ship canal, south of 85th, aka the Great White North), we had a bunch of artsy, hippie kids come over from Fremont into Wallingford and diss' our kids by calling them 'tools for the Corporate Man'.
Some Wallingford kids (the '45th St Gang', known for wearing drab colored, high end Northface fleeces and hanging out at Dicks) apparently took some of their Daddies' B'mers back over to Fremont and threaten to flame their "smelly petruli a**es" on Facebook.
Things got uglier after that.
Some Wallingford kids (the '45th St Gang', known for wearing drab colored, high end Northface fleeces and hanging out at Dicks) apparently took some of their Daddies' B'mers back over to Fremont and threaten to flame their "smelly petruli a**es" on Facebook.
Things got uglier after that.
3
Do you consider it to be funny that a little girl got shot? Or is your subsequent anecdote about the antics of college-age students intended to soften the blow? I think 'Cruel White Man' suits you better as a moniker.
5
You can bleed out and die easily enough from peripheral gunshot wounds.
Let me guess: Witnesses are uncooperative.
Happy Easter, everybody!
# Units requested to make blood run. Wounds may be worse than originally reported. ...
You can bleed out and die easily enough from peripheral gunshot wounds.
... # Victim is at Harborview, going into surgery. One officer thinks she'll be OK.
# Separate report: shots fired near 300 Dewey Pl. E.
Let me guess: Witnesses are uncooperative.
Happy Easter, everybody!
6
The quote says 'a girl'. My mistake. But to elaborate, the emergency services she receives are not going to be half of what she needs to recover from this. I imagine a psychologist at the very least will be in order, and the 'free' health care you referred to earlier won't cover that. She will now be afraid to go outside, afraid of anyone who remotely looks like, dresses like, drives the same car as her assailant. Not to be sexist, but I think these things would have an even greater impact considering her gender. But you did get me on the age factor. And I'm sure if you bring up the race of the attackers or the victim, this will mitigate not only the severity of the crime, but also the urgency of the need to respond--so go right ahead. I sincerely hope you're next.
Asshole.
Asshole.
7
Holy racism, Batman! CD posts sure drive up hit count. If we has six by 9:30, we'll have 50 by dinner. Jug wine for everyone!
8
"I imagine a psychologist at the very least will be in order"
Maybe she should have seen one earlier, this is apparently gang related. BTW Are we supposed to pay for the shrink too?
"She will now be afraid to go outside,"
Wow, afraid to go out and hang out with thug friends. How tragic. That at least would save us the money of plugging bullet holes at Harborview.
Maybe she should have seen one earlier, this is apparently gang related. BTW Are we supposed to pay for the shrink too?
"She will now be afraid to go outside,"
Wow, afraid to go out and hang out with thug friends. How tragic. That at least would save us the money of plugging bullet holes at Harborview.
9
"I sincerely hope you're next."
Well, I'm heading over to Fremont this morning, maybe some neo-hippie with bust-a-lawyer-joke-cap in my a**?
Well, I'm heading over to Fremont this morning, maybe some neo-hippie with bust-a-lawyer-joke-cap in my a**?
10
Gee black people are so cool! So much cooler and exciting than white people!
I think I will move away from my boring, safe, whitebread suburb, and move to the CD where everything is so diverse, vibrant, and exciting!!!
There are absolutely no differences! But celebrate diversity anyway.
I think I will move away from my boring, safe, whitebread suburb, and move to the CD where everything is so diverse, vibrant, and exciting!!!
There are absolutely no differences! But celebrate diversity anyway.
11
I don't live in Seattle, or Washington for that matter. But people who brush aside the problems of urban decay with snark are the ones I'd find the most fitting to be the next victim of them. At least the 'divershitty' guy has an agenda...what's yours? By the way, 'gang-related' applies to the shots fired, not necessarily those whom they hit. Say she was trying to leave a man who she found out was in a gang, and he retaliated? Would you make such comments then?
I reiterate: asshole.
I reiterate: asshole.
12
Here's where the nutso liberals have it all backwards: Instead of "gun buy-backs," we should be handing out free guns to the gang-bangers. They all kill each other and, voila, problem solved.
14
yet another amazing benefit of divershitty:
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/405068_de…
Saturday, April 11, 2009
Last updated 7:38 p.m. PT
Prosecutor: Dead baby's father started sex with girl at 13
KOMO-TV STAFF
KENT -- Prosecutors said the father of a newborn baby found dead this week in the bedroom of her 14-year-old mother had been having sexual relations with the mother at least once a week since she was 13.
The allegation came out during a bail hearing Saturday for the father, Leonel Guzman-Jacobo, 20. He was arrested Friday on suspicion of second-degree child rape, due to the young age of the mother.
Bail was set at $100,000 Saturday for Guzman-Jacobo. The judge set the bail amount after prosecutors argued that Guzman-Jacobo is from Mexico and might try to flee the country if bail isn't set high enough.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/405068_de…
Saturday, April 11, 2009
Last updated 7:38 p.m. PT
Prosecutor: Dead baby's father started sex with girl at 13
KOMO-TV STAFF
KENT -- Prosecutors said the father of a newborn baby found dead this week in the bedroom of her 14-year-old mother had been having sexual relations with the mother at least once a week since she was 13.
The allegation came out during a bail hearing Saturday for the father, Leonel Guzman-Jacobo, 20. He was arrested Friday on suspicion of second-degree child rape, due to the young age of the mother.
Bail was set at $100,000 Saturday for Guzman-Jacobo. The judge set the bail amount after prosecutors argued that Guzman-Jacobo is from Mexico and might try to flee the country if bail isn't set high enough.
16
The difference between living in the ghetto and living in the suburbs:
When kids get shot in the ghetto, a dozen cop cars and the gang unit show up, and the victim (assuming they're still alive) gets transported to the E.R. The weapon is generally found in the bushes and was probably stolen.
When kids get shot in the suburbs, a single police or county sheriff's car shows up, and the victim (assuming they're still alive) gets transported to the nearest Trauma Center. The weapon is generally found in the parent's bedroom, and the owner SWEARS it was locked and unloaded.
When kids get shot in the ghetto, a dozen cop cars and the gang unit show up, and the victim (assuming they're still alive) gets transported to the E.R. The weapon is generally found in the bushes and was probably stolen.
When kids get shot in the suburbs, a single police or county sheriff's car shows up, and the victim (assuming they're still alive) gets transported to the nearest Trauma Center. The weapon is generally found in the parent's bedroom, and the owner SWEARS it was locked and unloaded.
17
@14, this proves your white supremacist wet dreams true. Celebrate, proud white warrior! Your ugly virgin ass is better than all those dark skinned folks, therefore you're not a complete and utter loser!
18
Suggestion for Light Rail:
http://www.pacificbulletproof.com/?k=Bul…
We offer a wide variety of the highest quality bullet proof products to accommodate the different needs of our clients. And because we believe that you shouldn't have to sacrifice style for security, we also offer custom design, fabrication, and installation.
Suggestion for Light Rail:
http://www.pacificbulletproof.com/?k=Bul…
We offer a wide variety of the highest quality bullet proof products to accommodate the different needs of our clients. And because we believe that you shouldn't have to sacrifice style for security, we also offer custom design, fabrication, and installation.
19
@17 - insults sure work wonders for making facts you don't like magically vanish.... oh wait, no they don't.
20
Dear Mr. No-Pants -- The setting is not terribly urban, and it's not decaying ... it's gentrifying.
Here's a street view, if you're interested.
Seattle is a pretty good place to avoid getting shot, unless you're gang-involved or hanging out with people who are, and even that risk is largely an artifact of the "no snitch" ethic.
Here's a street view, if you're interested.
Seattle is a pretty good place to avoid getting shot, unless you're gang-involved or hanging out with people who are, and even that risk is largely an artifact of the "no snitch" ethic.
21
As long as 3 out of 4 kids are born in households without their father expect the bedlam to continue and increase. The "family" is the building block of society, when most "families" are dysfunctional soon society will be. Guns are not the problem. Amoral thugs of all stripes and varieties are the problem. It may please your Liberal heart to fret and whine and look for someone to blame (right wing gun nuts!!!) but if you are unwilling to address the core problem you are wasting your time and boring the rest of us.
22
http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/wayoflife…
"...data released last month showed the percentage of unwed mothers differs from race to race. While 28 percent of white women gave birth out of wedlock in 2007, nearly 72 percent of black women and more than 51 percent of Latinas did."
"...data released last month showed the percentage of unwed mothers differs from race to race. While 28 percent of white women gave birth out of wedlock in 2007, nearly 72 percent of black women and more than 51 percent of Latinas did."
23
It is the fault of the right wing rethuglican gun nuts that black males kill each other so much! Rethuglican gun nuts FORCED those poor oppressed gangstas of color to murder and rape at astronomical rates!
24
Ron--
I highly doubt Seattle is a cesspool of crime. Thanks for the streetview. Similar things are occurring in Minneapolis as it rebuilds what was neglected for too long. There are a certain stripe of people of all races who tend to thrive in areas without stores, consistent traffic and well-maintained housing. Personally, I think that the uptick in shootings is an attempt to drive away people who would gladly call the cops on them and end their rule of those little patches of turf. But that's here.
What I resent is the fact that we have a good social welfare system and pleasant neighborhoods, and Chicago, Detroit and Gary started to bus their homeless and ex-cons here rather than raise taxes to effectively deal with the problem back in the 80s. We were called "Murderapolis" for a reason. Now those same people have families with the same values systems they learned in the rotten ghettos and they terrorize every citizen who lives here, especially the minorities. One the one side, the gangs and wannabes target those minorities who appear to be doing better than they are for "acting white"; on the other, we have spokesmen for racism like Divershitty, who attempt to lay these problem people upon all minorities. Then there are people like Stupid White Man, who simply trivialize the problem. Luckily, more and more people are becoming good citizens and alerting the police. Three cheers for gentrification! These cornered rats will strike out, and I hope that the level of discourse does not diminish before they are removed from their current positions of power.
I highly doubt Seattle is a cesspool of crime. Thanks for the streetview. Similar things are occurring in Minneapolis as it rebuilds what was neglected for too long. There are a certain stripe of people of all races who tend to thrive in areas without stores, consistent traffic and well-maintained housing. Personally, I think that the uptick in shootings is an attempt to drive away people who would gladly call the cops on them and end their rule of those little patches of turf. But that's here.
What I resent is the fact that we have a good social welfare system and pleasant neighborhoods, and Chicago, Detroit and Gary started to bus their homeless and ex-cons here rather than raise taxes to effectively deal with the problem back in the 80s. We were called "Murderapolis" for a reason. Now those same people have families with the same values systems they learned in the rotten ghettos and they terrorize every citizen who lives here, especially the minorities. One the one side, the gangs and wannabes target those minorities who appear to be doing better than they are for "acting white"; on the other, we have spokesmen for racism like Divershitty, who attempt to lay these problem people upon all minorities. Then there are people like Stupid White Man, who simply trivialize the problem. Luckily, more and more people are becoming good citizens and alerting the police. Three cheers for gentrification! These cornered rats will strike out, and I hope that the level of discourse does not diminish before they are removed from their current positions of power.
25
THE RACE WAR OF BLACK AGAINST WHITE
Paul Sheehan
From the Sydney Morning Herald, May 20, 1995
The longest war America has ever fought is the Dirty War, and it is not over. It has lasted 30 years so far and claimed more than 25 million victims. It has cost almost as many lives as the Vietnam War. It determined the result of last year's congressional election.
Yet the American news media do not want to talk about the Dirty War, which remains between the lines and unreported. In fact, to even suggest that the war exists is to be discredited. So let's start suggesting, immediately.
No matter how crime figures are massaged by those who want to acknowledge or dispute the existence of a Dirty War, there is nothing ambiguous about what the official statistics portray: for the past 30 years a large segment of black America has waged a war of violent retribution against white America.
And the problem is getting worse, not better. In the past 20 years, violent crime has increased more than four times faster then the population. Young blacks (under 18) are more violent than previous generations and are 12 times more likely to be arrested for murder than young whites.
Nearly all the following figures, which speak for themselves, have not been reported in America:
* According to the latest US Department of Justice survey of crime victims, more than 6.6 million violent crimes (murder, rape, assault and robbery) are committed in the US each year, of which about 20 per cent, or 1.3 million, are inter-racial crimes.
* Most victims of race crime – about 90 per cent – are white, according to the survey "Highlights from 20 Years of Surveying Crime Victims," published in 1993.
* Almost 1 million white Americans were murdered, robbed, assaulted or raped by black Americans in 1992, compared with about 132,000 blacks who were murdered, robbed, assaulted or raped by whites, according to the same survey.
* Blacks thus committed 7.5 times more violent inter-racial crimes than whites even though the black population is only one-seventh the size of the white population. When these figures are adjusted on a per capita basis, they reveal an extraordinary disparity: blacks are committing more than 50 times the number of violent crimes of whites.
* According to the latest annual report on murder by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, most inter-racial murders involve black assailants and white victims, with blacks murdering whites at 18 times the rate that whites murder blacks.
These breathtaking disparities began to emerge in the mid-1960s, when there was a sharp increase in black crime against whites, an upsurge which, not coincidentally, corresponds exactly with the beginning the modern civil rights movement.
Over time, the cumulative effect has been staggering. Justice Department and FBI statistics indicate that between 1964 and 1994 more than 25 million violent inter-racial crimes were committed, overwhelmingly involving black offenders and white victims, and more than 45,000 people were killed in inter-racial murders. By comparison 58,000 Americans died in Vietnam, and 34,000 were killed in the Korean war.
When non-violent crimes (burglary, larceny, car theft and personal theft) are included, the cumulative totals become prodigious. The Bureau of Justice Statistics says 27 million non-violent crimes were committed in the US in 1992, and the survey found that 31 per cent of the robberies involved black offenders and white victims (while only 2 per cent in the reverse).
When all the crime figures are calculated, it appears that black Americans have committed at least 170 million crimes against white Americans in the past 30 years. It is the great defining disaster of American life and American ideals since World War II.
All these are facts, yet by simply writing this story, by assembling the facts in this way, I would be deemed a racist by the American news media. It prefers to maintain a paternalistic* double-standard in its coverage of black America, a lower standard.
More...
Paul Sheehan
From the Sydney Morning Herald, May 20, 1995
The longest war America has ever fought is the Dirty War, and it is not over. It has lasted 30 years so far and claimed more than 25 million victims. It has cost almost as many lives as the Vietnam War. It determined the result of last year's congressional election.
Yet the American news media do not want to talk about the Dirty War, which remains between the lines and unreported. In fact, to even suggest that the war exists is to be discredited. So let's start suggesting, immediately.
No matter how crime figures are massaged by those who want to acknowledge or dispute the existence of a Dirty War, there is nothing ambiguous about what the official statistics portray: for the past 30 years a large segment of black America has waged a war of violent retribution against white America.
And the problem is getting worse, not better. In the past 20 years, violent crime has increased more than four times faster then the population. Young blacks (under 18) are more violent than previous generations and are 12 times more likely to be arrested for murder than young whites.
Nearly all the following figures, which speak for themselves, have not been reported in America:
* According to the latest US Department of Justice survey of crime victims, more than 6.6 million violent crimes (murder, rape, assault and robbery) are committed in the US each year, of which about 20 per cent, or 1.3 million, are inter-racial crimes.
* Most victims of race crime – about 90 per cent – are white, according to the survey "Highlights from 20 Years of Surveying Crime Victims," published in 1993.
* Almost 1 million white Americans were murdered, robbed, assaulted or raped by black Americans in 1992, compared with about 132,000 blacks who were murdered, robbed, assaulted or raped by whites, according to the same survey.
* Blacks thus committed 7.5 times more violent inter-racial crimes than whites even though the black population is only one-seventh the size of the white population. When these figures are adjusted on a per capita basis, they reveal an extraordinary disparity: blacks are committing more than 50 times the number of violent crimes of whites.
* According to the latest annual report on murder by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, most inter-racial murders involve black assailants and white victims, with blacks murdering whites at 18 times the rate that whites murder blacks.
These breathtaking disparities began to emerge in the mid-1960s, when there was a sharp increase in black crime against whites, an upsurge which, not coincidentally, corresponds exactly with the beginning the modern civil rights movement.
Over time, the cumulative effect has been staggering. Justice Department and FBI statistics indicate that between 1964 and 1994 more than 25 million violent inter-racial crimes were committed, overwhelmingly involving black offenders and white victims, and more than 45,000 people were killed in inter-racial murders. By comparison 58,000 Americans died in Vietnam, and 34,000 were killed in the Korean war.
When non-violent crimes (burglary, larceny, car theft and personal theft) are included, the cumulative totals become prodigious. The Bureau of Justice Statistics says 27 million non-violent crimes were committed in the US in 1992, and the survey found that 31 per cent of the robberies involved black offenders and white victims (while only 2 per cent in the reverse).
When all the crime figures are calculated, it appears that black Americans have committed at least 170 million crimes against white Americans in the past 30 years. It is the great defining disaster of American life and American ideals since World War II.
All these are facts, yet by simply writing this story, by assembling the facts in this way, I would be deemed a racist by the American news media. It prefers to maintain a paternalistic* double-standard in its coverage of black America, a lower standard.
28
@25--
Ah, so granting blacks civil rights causes them to become violent? Can I guess at what your solution to this problem might be? I have no criminal record, not even a parking ticket. I don't do drugs, and work two jobs--I also volunteer. Your proposal would be to rescind my voting rights, disallow me to rent where I please to live, and allow my employers to fire me without cause? Go to Hell.
Ah, so granting blacks civil rights causes them to become violent? Can I guess at what your solution to this problem might be? I have no criminal record, not even a parking ticket. I don't do drugs, and work two jobs--I also volunteer. Your proposal would be to rescind my voting rights, disallow me to rent where I please to live, and allow my employers to fire me without cause? Go to Hell.
29
"Say she was trying to leave a man who she found out was in a gang, and he retaliated"
I hope you're wearing your 'Hug a Thug' shirt today.
I hope you're wearing your 'Hug a Thug' shirt today.
30
@28 - if you actually really are black, then you should worry more about your own fellow blacks than about white "racists".
According to the USDOJ, at least 93% of the roughly 8,000 blacks murdered in the USA every year are murdered by other blacks... yet we constantly hear blacks whine about how threatened they are by whites, like that fraud-farce of the Jena 6.
That's about twice as many blacks killed by other blacks (in only one year) than the number of blacks killed in all the racist lynchings in the entire history of the USA combined.
According to the USDOJ, at least 93% of the roughly 8,000 blacks murdered in the USA every year are murdered by other blacks... yet we constantly hear blacks whine about how threatened they are by whites, like that fraud-farce of the Jena 6.
That's about twice as many blacks killed by other blacks (in only one year) than the number of blacks killed in all the racist lynchings in the entire history of the USA combined.
31
#25: So what do you want to do? Put all non-white people in internment camps? Roll back suffrage and segregate schools? Would that make you be proud to be a white American?
It's not middle class black men from Magnolia who get involved in crack and violence. It's dirt poor men without any economic opportunity. Who do you think Microsoft is going to hire, the white/asian college graduate from generations of homeowners, whose parents paid to live in a nice neighborhood with good schools and paid for a great college? Or the black kid who went to a poor failing high school who had to hustle and could only get the jobs nobody else wants, whose grandparents couldn't even vote and whose family has never owned a thing since before slavery? Who do you think a white mechanic is going to hire, the "all-American" white farmboy who played for his football team or the black kid from the projects who speaks ebonics and plays street basketball?
If you want to solve the problem, the only solution is to provide economic opportunities to stagnant impoverished communities. Pour money into the schools, provide government money and grants for jobs to neglected communities, and encourage business owners to hire people who are different from themselves. People who demonize black people and other minorities do nothing but add to the problem.
It's not middle class black men from Magnolia who get involved in crack and violence. It's dirt poor men without any economic opportunity. Who do you think Microsoft is going to hire, the white/asian college graduate from generations of homeowners, whose parents paid to live in a nice neighborhood with good schools and paid for a great college? Or the black kid who went to a poor failing high school who had to hustle and could only get the jobs nobody else wants, whose grandparents couldn't even vote and whose family has never owned a thing since before slavery? Who do you think a white mechanic is going to hire, the "all-American" white farmboy who played for his football team or the black kid from the projects who speaks ebonics and plays street basketball?
If you want to solve the problem, the only solution is to provide economic opportunities to stagnant impoverished communities. Pour money into the schools, provide government money and grants for jobs to neglected communities, and encourage business owners to hire people who are different from themselves. People who demonize black people and other minorities do nothing but add to the problem.
32
Black households in many communities have incomes that exceed white household income.
What we see here is not the voice of poverty, but, similar to the emergence of the Mafia, a strong and powerful underclass that is rising up and taking no prisoners to get access to the cash.
Revolution does not occur among the down trodden, only among those who are repressed by whatever ancien regieme that sees itself as owning power by some God given right.
As such, the stronger group will keep fighting and emerging until it overruns the decadent group that thought it had a lock on things...or, a reaction occurs where the group that is in power, actually has the nuts to stay in power.
Black households in many communities have incomes that exceed white household income.
What we see here is not the voice of poverty, but, similar to the emergence of the Mafia, a strong and powerful underclass that is rising up and taking no prisoners to get access to the cash.
Revolution does not occur among the down trodden, only among those who are repressed by whatever ancien regieme that sees itself as owning power by some God given right.
As such, the stronger group will keep fighting and emerging until it overruns the decadent group that thought it had a lock on things...or, a reaction occurs where the group that is in power, actually has the nuts to stay in power.
33
Don't forget the 265,000 black babies killed every year by Planned Parenthood. The KKK and Aryan Nation are pathetic amateur wanabees by comparison.
34
@31 - yes the billions thrown at blacks for the last generation sure have helped haven't they?
That must be the explanation for why black crime rates have gotten exponentially worse in the last 40 years.
Perhaps you would do well to reread the last sentence of that article:
"All these are facts, yet by simply writing this story, by assembling the facts in this way, I would be deemed a racist by the American news media. It prefers to maintain a paternalistic double-standard in its coverage of black America, a lower standard."
That must be the explanation for why black crime rates have gotten exponentially worse in the last 40 years.
Perhaps you would do well to reread the last sentence of that article:
"All these are facts, yet by simply writing this story, by assembling the facts in this way, I would be deemed a racist by the American news media. It prefers to maintain a paternalistic double-standard in its coverage of black America, a lower standard."
35
31
The only solution is for black men to stick around to be fathers instead of sperm donors.
The solution is for blacks to quit expecting the taxpayer to raise their children.
The only solution is for black men to stick around to be fathers instead of sperm donors.
The solution is for blacks to quit expecting the taxpayer to raise their children.
37
The solution is for blacks to quit expecting the taxpayer to raise their children.
Actually go back and read the CNN article...the trend is towards out-of-wed lock, single parent families where the mother raises the child solely.
In this sense, Blacks have been in the vanguard of social change, and whites following...the way the Beatles followed Chuck Berry.
Actually go back and read the CNN article...the trend is towards out-of-wed lock, single parent families where the mother raises the child solely.
In this sense, Blacks have been in the vanguard of social change, and whites following...the way the Beatles followed Chuck Berry.
39
That must be the explanation for why black crime rates have gotten exponentially worse in the last 40 years.
Crime in many cases is defined as drug dealing...which according to SLOG, is not a crime.
Blacks tend to get busted for drug related crimes at a rate three times that of whites.
SLOG writer lights up bong in office: no time.
Black dude in Columbia City puffs reefer on porch: busted.
White dude in Centralia runs meth lab: celebrated as business hero for bringing cash to city.
Crime in many cases is defined as drug dealing...which according to SLOG, is not a crime.
Blacks tend to get busted for drug related crimes at a rate three times that of whites.
SLOG writer lights up bong in office: no time.
Black dude in Columbia City puffs reefer on porch: busted.
White dude in Centralia runs meth lab: celebrated as business hero for bringing cash to city.
40
#34: Yes, the billions of dollars have helped, which is why many black Americans are now part of middle or even upper class society. But there are tens of millions of impoverished black people still without economic opportunity. And many many many more billions of government money have gone to white Americans. What race do you think benefits most from the billions going to Halliburton? AIG? Citigroup? GM? Blackwater? Boeing? Microsoft? Chase? Bank of America? The justice department? Highway construction? The IRS? White Americans have benefited proportionately far more from government "welfare" than black Americans. A $300 check in the mail every month to keep a single mother fed and off the street is nothing compared to the billions in economic opportunities being provided to white and other middle class Americans.
41
@32-
Sounds like someone has been reading Nietzsche. I would agree that the gangster represents an embryonic aristocratic class, and needs to be dealt with, but I don't accept your idea that that should involve empowering some sort of blood-aristocracy--which most of our cities happily lack--as the same tendency to rape and plunder is predominant in their own thinking, and is held back by a healthy and productive middle class. But feel free to wallow in Romanticism Nationalism and the hope of reactionary aristocratic rule, as if that weren't decadent enough....
Sounds like someone has been reading Nietzsche. I would agree that the gangster represents an embryonic aristocratic class, and needs to be dealt with, but I don't accept your idea that that should involve empowering some sort of blood-aristocracy--which most of our cities happily lack--as the same tendency to rape and plunder is predominant in their own thinking, and is held back by a healthy and productive middle class. But feel free to wallow in Romanticism Nationalism and the hope of reactionary aristocratic rule, as if that weren't decadent enough....
42
Criminals are not made, they are born. You can tell who are going to be the killers back in grade school; they take over classes, terrorize the law-abiding, and know very well when to shed tears. Unfortunately, every measure that has been instituted to cull evil from the population--think compulsory sterilization--has been abused to the point where it is no longer politically viable, mostly by people such as 'divershitty'. You fucked yourself out of that solution, pal. And we all suffer as a result of your blanket hatred towards blacks.
43
37
Are you being ironic or are you really really stupid?
"out-of-wed lock, single parent families where the mother raises the child solely" equals $214,000 in taxpayer money per bastard over the lifetime of the kid.
Are you being ironic or are you really really stupid?
"out-of-wed lock, single parent families where the mother raises the child solely" equals $214,000 in taxpayer money per bastard over the lifetime of the kid.
44
@42 - you misunderstand.... I don't hate blacks, any more than I hate sharks or rattlesnakes or gorillas or grizzly bears or other kinds of dangerous animals.
45
Definition of Political Correctness: A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical socialist minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous non-inquiring media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
46
If only we legalized drugs all these crackheads would become rocket scientists and Shakespearian scholars in a matter of weeks. Legal crack would not drive crackheads crazy and violent the way illegal crack does. The psychological taint of illegality transfers itself into the crack and drives these poor crackeads of color insane. The legalization of crack will solve all these problems instantly! Legalize crack now or you are a racist!
47
@44
Your attempts at aphorisms sound more like Oscar Wilde than Nietzsche. I would agree that CRIMINALS need to be stopped, but you consistently use 'blacks'. Where you are coming from is dangerous for white and black, liberal and conservative; it reeks of the jealousy of the criminal who has been crowded out of a profession. "Theory of the Leisure Class" does a great job of putting Nietzsche and de Gobineau on a rational basis--unfortunately for you, it also exposes them to systematic critique. You should read it, nonetheless. I am certainly no egalitarian, much less a utilitarian, but fascism has never appealed to me. Sorry. Might I suggest you move to one of those countries in the former Eastern bloc where your favored brand of 'political science' is currently en vogue? You may have to give up a few civil liberties, but it would be the patriotic thing to do, no?
Your attempts at aphorisms sound more like Oscar Wilde than Nietzsche. I would agree that CRIMINALS need to be stopped, but you consistently use 'blacks'. Where you are coming from is dangerous for white and black, liberal and conservative; it reeks of the jealousy of the criminal who has been crowded out of a profession. "Theory of the Leisure Class" does a great job of putting Nietzsche and de Gobineau on a rational basis--unfortunately for you, it also exposes them to systematic critique. You should read it, nonetheless. I am certainly no egalitarian, much less a utilitarian, but fascism has never appealed to me. Sorry. Might I suggest you move to one of those countries in the former Eastern bloc where your favored brand of 'political science' is currently en vogue? You may have to give up a few civil liberties, but it would be the patriotic thing to do, no?
48
These comments are ridiculous. I hope you racist types all feel good for frolicking in your own filth.
51
In other news, the Obamas have picked out a really cute dog:
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Obama-fami…
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Obama-fami…
54
The troll with a thousand names has no facts. Calling them facts over and over doesn't make them facts, any more than he is any better than the most violent black man on earth.
56
Nope - doesn't work that way. You've been flouting a bunch of figures without saying where you got them or who compiled them. Gee, wonder why that is.
No, YOU prove that they're accurate. I will fully apologize to you if you can. Scout's honor.
No, YOU prove that they're accurate. I will fully apologize to you if you can. Scout's honor.
60
That's as good as admitting that those figures came either out of your ass or off of some white supremacist site. Not that I had any doubt.
62
Have some facts, douche in Denver
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/ra…
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/vv…
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/ra…
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/vv…
63
LOL! Those numbers don't match the BS you've been throwing around. Why do you have to make up shit if the real stats basically tell the same story?
A: Because you're a poor, poor pitiful loser.
Still, you at least provided some facts. My apologies are proffered as promised. Too bad you still have to make illogical leaps to make your racist case.
A: Because you're a poor, poor pitiful loser.
Still, you at least provided some facts. My apologies are proffered as promised. Too bad you still have to make illogical leaps to make your racist case.
64
Ha, I open this thread and knew exactly its contents. The racists here on Slog never fail to see a shooting as an opportunity to show how ignorant and backward they are. But hey, keep on keeping on racists. You're not convincing anyone of your "facts" and if anything you are making people less likely to be racist. So, um, good for you?
66
The numbers do not in any way contradict the fact that blacks disproportionately commit violent crime:
from the first link:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/ra…
"Racial differences exist, with blacks disproportionately represented among homicide victims and offenders
In 2005, homicide victimization rates for blacks were 6 times higher than the rates for whites."
"In 2005, offending rates for blacks were more than 7 times higher than the rates for whites"
"Homicide Type by Race, 1976-2005 - Offenders - Black - 52.2%"
from the first link:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/ra…
"Racial differences exist, with blacks disproportionately represented among homicide victims and offenders
In 2005, homicide victimization rates for blacks were 6 times higher than the rates for whites."
"In 2005, offending rates for blacks were more than 7 times higher than the rates for whites"
"Homicide Type by Race, 1976-2005 - Offenders - Black - 52.2%"
67
Therefore, blacks make up only about 12 to 13% of the USA, which makes teen/adult black males about 3% or less, which means that less than 3% of the USA commits over 52% of all homicides in the USA.
68
So what? 93% of homicides are committed by men, and men are involved in many female-perpetrated homicides as well.
You don't have the balls to even say what you're hinting at, loser.
You can have the last word.
You don't have the balls to even say what you're hinting at, loser.
You can have the last word.
70
So what?!?
I'm just going to pretend that having a group that makes up only 3% of the population but that commits over 52% of all murders and over 34% of all rapes is just no big deal, because that is the wimpy liberal politically correct douche thing to do.
Maybe if I keep denying and/or ignoring the problem it will magically vanish!
I'm just going to pretend that having a group that makes up only 3% of the population but that commits over 52% of all murders and over 34% of all rapes is just no big deal, because that is the wimpy liberal politically correct douche thing to do.
Maybe if I keep denying and/or ignoring the problem it will magically vanish!
71
LOL! Even when given the last word, that's the best you can do?
I'll be generous and give you one more chance.
I'll be generous and give you one more chance.
75
uuuuh.... flawed?
His conclusions/points seem to simply be that black males commit a vastly disproportionate amount of violent crime, and also that merely pointing that fact out gets the pointer-outer called a racist.
It looks like he proved all his points to me, and I really don't want to have to admit that, but facts are facts.
His conclusions/points seem to simply be that black males commit a vastly disproportionate amount of violent crime, and also that merely pointing that fact out gets the pointer-outer called a racist.
It looks like he proved all his points to me, and I really don't want to have to admit that, but facts are facts.
77
Matt from Denver, per his offer @ 56, owes the apparently-racist troll a public apology.
Per Matt's absurdist evasion @ 70, he's not going to honor his offer, and his word is not worth the ether it's written on. (In causal argument, the specific trumps the general.)
Dragging forward fact chex from an earlier thread (excerpt of rejoinder to Mr. X, who advances the partially-plausible claim that his Irish, Italian and Jewish forbearers were equally violent in their day):
The apparently-racist troll commands the high ground, factually. The argument, properly, is over their implications.
Per Matt's absurdist evasion @ 70, he's not going to honor his offer, and his word is not worth the ether it's written on. (In causal argument, the specific trumps the general.)
Dragging forward fact chex from an earlier thread (excerpt of rejoinder to Mr. X, who advances the partially-plausible claim that his Irish, Italian and Jewish forbearers were equally violent in their day):
... more than 100 years ago urban blacks were out-murdering each other vis a vis their white counterparts by significant margins, and these margins (a rough order of magnitude over the past century) have persisted or increased even as their comparative socio-economic disadvantage decreased. (cf Short, Poverty, Ethnicity and Violent Crime, 1997, pp. 8-9)
This is a longstanding puzzle to criminologists. (If you like, you can confine your study to black criminologist, starting with W.E.B. Du Bois in the late 19th century.)
The apparently-racist troll commands the high ground, factually. The argument, properly, is over their implications.
78
Original Monique, I don't think that's the "real" Big Sven. His name is always a link to his blog, I think.
It drives me crazy when commenters hijack other people's names.
I'm not going to use my name here because, having said that, I'm sure the Aryan Nations people would hijack it just to piss me off.
It drives me crazy when commenters hijack other people's names.
I'm not going to use my name here because, having said that, I'm sure the Aryan Nations people would hijack it just to piss me off.
81
it is funny how stating facts can make you a racist yet ignoring facts makes you enlightened to some people.
82
Wow, it's funny how some people are so insecure about the shit they post that they have to post the same thing to different threads.
83
wow it's funny how people who have been proven to be reality-denying naive tards just keep on coming back for more
84
Come on matt, what happened to all your snappy naive reality-denying comebacks? I want to destroy you with facts some more. Don't give up yet! This is too much fun!
85
I'm LOLing myself because I was giving you shit and you didn't catch on.
Of course all that is true, dufus. I knew that from the beginning. Problem is, you're implying that it means blacks are all bad people and inferior, and you don't even have the balls to say it, even in an anonymous forum which lets you use a million different sockpuppet handles.
I win, because I have balls, a sense of humor, and the honor to apologize as promised even though I was setting you up. You lose, because you ARE racist (again, not for your facts) and a coward (for your ever-shifting handle and for only hinting at your racist conclusions).
You can keep coming back for more, but I no longer have any reason to do so.
Of course all that is true, dufus. I knew that from the beginning. Problem is, you're implying that it means blacks are all bad people and inferior, and you don't even have the balls to say it, even in an anonymous forum which lets you use a million different sockpuppet handles.
I win, because I have balls, a sense of humor, and the honor to apologize as promised even though I was setting you up. You lose, because you ARE racist (again, not for your facts) and a coward (for your ever-shifting handle and for only hinting at your racist conclusions).
You can keep coming back for more, but I no longer have any reason to do so.
86
You were not setting me up you stupid revisionist.
Stop trying to revise history after you have been proven to be wrong.
You are just trying to cover up the fact that you were proven wrong. LAME
Stop trying to revise history after you have been proven to be wrong.
You are just trying to cover up the fact that you were proven wrong. LAME
87
Matt @ 77, your excretion @ 63 is not a proper apology.
Presented in passive voice, in conditional, ambiguous language ("proffered as promised"), prefaced with a denial of the stated preconditions, and larded with gratuitious insults ... your conduct reflects badly on your side of the preceding dialog.
You make the troll look good.
Presented in passive voice, in conditional, ambiguous language ("proffered as promised"), prefaced with a denial of the stated preconditions, and larded with gratuitious insults ... your conduct reflects badly on your side of the preceding dialog.
You make the troll look good.
88
Ron, you don't understand what I'm up to. I wasn't playing by either the rules of normal dialogue (because this little turd isn't interested) or by his rule either (because this little turd doesn't deserve it).
You, on the other hand, are playing by his rules by saying that this is somehow a "dialog". The little turd, who constantly turns these threads this way, is not interested in discussion, so you're falling for his game when you go along. I made him think I was playing his game too but I wasn't. He fell for it and even revealed at 86 that his is, indeed, just one person (if not, where are the others? Why aren't they jumping all over me?) That was my object all along.
Pay attention to other threads where some serious discussion is going on and I'm participating. That's Matt from Denver contributing. Here, it's all fun and games.
You, on the other hand, are playing by his rules by saying that this is somehow a "dialog". The little turd, who constantly turns these threads this way, is not interested in discussion, so you're falling for his game when you go along. I made him think I was playing his game too but I wasn't. He fell for it and even revealed at 86 that his is, indeed, just one person (if not, where are the others? Why aren't they jumping all over me?) That was my object all along.
Pay attention to other threads where some serious discussion is going on and I'm participating. That's Matt from Denver contributing. Here, it's all fun and games.
89
Racists are all small dicked doofuses who have failed at attaining middle-management jobs, and blame their failure on the black folks. Also, they love to wear ladies underwear.
Female racists have problems with vaginal dryness and can't keep a man.
Female racists have problems with vaginal dryness and can't keep a man.
91
86
Matt, why are you so obsessed with showing it is one poster?
It is not, and in 86 you did not show it was, and what difference does it make?
It is not racist to note disparities in the rate of crime (or education level or out-of-wedlock birthrate or anything else)based on race.
It is racist when PC Liberal media hacks try to hide that information when it is relevant.
Withholding the race of a suspect at large is assinine and jeapordizes public safety and makes a mockery of police work.
When slog pointedly does that some folks like to have fun with them.
When the regulars predictably squeal 'racism' it only encourages to point out the facts of race and crime.
Accusing people who are trying to have a fact based discussion of racism just because you disagree with them or find the facts they bring to the discussion inconvenient cheapens the term and makes it harder to deal with actual racism.
Don't do it.
Matt, why are you so obsessed with showing it is one poster?
It is not, and in 86 you did not show it was, and what difference does it make?
It is not racist to note disparities in the rate of crime (or education level or out-of-wedlock birthrate or anything else)based on race.
It is racist when PC Liberal media hacks try to hide that information when it is relevant.
Withholding the race of a suspect at large is assinine and jeapordizes public safety and makes a mockery of police work.
When slog pointedly does that some folks like to have fun with them.
When the regulars predictably squeal 'racism' it only encourages to point out the facts of race and crime.
Accusing people who are trying to have a fact based discussion of racism just because you disagree with them or find the facts they bring to the discussion inconvenient cheapens the term and makes it harder to deal with actual racism.
Don't do it.
92
No, it's racist to imply (as your buddy does) that all black people can be judged by this; that this proves that black people are violent and dangerous; and that there are no other mitigating factors. He's having a "fact based discussion of racism"? Don't make me laugh.
Now, if he has other, more relevant points to make, then why can't he just make them? Personally, I don't care about the race of a perpetrator unless someone is at large and the police are looking for him; I agree that NOT stating race is dumb in that case. However, I also notice that most of these reports are short on eyewitness details; if the perp is black and that's all they know, then it won't help find him.
Hey, if it's more than one poster, then let them (and you) all select a single identity and stick with it. Obsessed? Hardly. Just letting him know that I see right through him.
Now, if he has other, more relevant points to make, then why can't he just make them? Personally, I don't care about the race of a perpetrator unless someone is at large and the police are looking for him; I agree that NOT stating race is dumb in that case. However, I also notice that most of these reports are short on eyewitness details; if the perp is black and that's all they know, then it won't help find him.
Hey, if it's more than one poster, then let them (and you) all select a single identity and stick with it. Obsessed? Hardly. Just letting him know that I see right through him.
93
Matt, you are trolling here, and you are giving your antagonist the perfect set-ups for his arguments.
BTW, unlike you, I DO care about the race of the perpetrators even when they're not at large with police looking for them. I care 24 hours a day, because I have family, friends, family of friends and friends of family who have made, are making, or will make the difficult passage through this dangerous age, who are susceptible to its dangers, or who have already fallen irremediably prey to them.
If you have auxilliary hypotheses to account for the differences, the burden is on you to introduce and defend them. All the usual circumstantial yada and all the demonstrable disparities in the justice system explain only a fraction of the disparity. BTW, I have followed your act in other threads, and you ain't shit.
BTW, unlike you, I DO care about the race of the perpetrators even when they're not at large with police looking for them. I care 24 hours a day, because I have family, friends, family of friends and friends of family who have made, are making, or will make the difficult passage through this dangerous age, who are susceptible to its dangers, or who have already fallen irremediably prey to them.
If you have auxilliary hypotheses to account for the differences, the burden is on you to introduce and defend them. All the usual circumstantial yada and all the demonstrable disparities in the justice system explain only a fraction of the disparity. BTW, I have followed your act in other threads, and you ain't shit.
94
Aww, Ron, now you're going to make me cry. I know you've been around for a while but can't think of anything particularly insightful you've written either. I guess we're even on that count.
Let me clue you in, Ron - you don't deal with trolls by introducing "auxilliary hypotheses" or otherwise giving them any credit for trying to steer the conversation. But if you believe it's so, then why don't YOU do that?
Let me clue you in, Ron - you don't deal with trolls by introducing "auxilliary hypotheses" or otherwise giving them any credit for trying to steer the conversation. But if you believe it's so, then why don't YOU do that?
95
What if the troll is actually some kind of weird, subversive anti-racist who is trying to prod yall into coming up with better responses than insults?
96
@ 95, what if Jesus came back in a purple Cadillac and rid the world of STD's, global warming, and bad breath? That's about as likely as your supposition.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
Hating People Doesn't Make Them Thinner by Jen Graves
-
Los Angeles Gay Bar Bans Bachelorette Parties Until Marriage Equality Is Attained by David Schmader
-
Fill in the Blank by Grant Brissey
-
This Reminds Me of the Great Calculator Scare of the Late '70s/Early '80s by David Schmader
-
Idiot Tries to Defend Bigoted Anti-Gay-Marriage Preacher on Anderson Cooper by Paul Constant
-
SL Letter of the Day: Putting It In by Dan Savage
-
Six Moms with Too Much Time on Their Hands and a Shitty Website Decide to Fight Gay Superheroes by Paul Constant
-
Why Mayor McGinn's Wife Canceled Her Family's Seattle Times Subscription by Eli Sanders
-
What the Hell Is Wrong With Seattle's Pride Parade? by Dominic Holden
-
Meet the UW "Swagga Suit" by David Schmader
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (96) RSS