Slog
News & ArtsFriday, April 10, 2009
Crime Threats Against Discovery
Posted by Unpaid Intern on Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 12:12 PM
Posted by News Intern Aaron Pickus
An employee at the Discovery Institute, a conservative think tank based in downtown Seattle, received threatening e-mails last week, according to an SPD incident report.
The employee, identified in the officer's narrative as the Institute's Vice-President, Steven Buri, says in the report that they occasionally receive e-mails from people who disagree with the think tank's theories and call the staff "stupid." Three e-mails this week, however, were turned over to the police after Buri became alarmed by a specific line: "You've been warned asshole. Shut the fuck up or die."
The report states that Buri is concerned because the Discovery Institute is a research group that deals, in part, with Intelligent Design*. He believes that the threats were directed at the entire Institute and not any specific staffer. Repeated calls for comment to the Discovery Institute and Buri have not been returned.
*The incident report's author helpfully describes Intelligent Design as an "alternative to Darwinian Theory."
1
That sucks. I don't agree with their outlook, but threats are inappropriate in any circumstance.
It's certainly not gonna make them change their views.
It's certainly not gonna make them change their views.
2
Big deal. This is as valid and legitimate as any of the self-generated "sympathy threats" against the Church of Scientology. Their entire purpose is to give free PR to a dying organization that lacks any good PR of it's own. Both the COS and Discovery institute can whither under their own failures without any outside assistance.
3
How can you have a think tank about intelligent design? I'd think as soon as someone actually thought about it, they'd have to leave!
8
@5: That's why I'm leaning toward this being a hoax threat perpetrated by someone sympathetic to their cause. Note that I'm not saying that's what it is, but it feels like a distinct possibility.
In any event, this is hardly representative of mainstream opposition to the ID hokum. We've got all the facts in our corner, and that is very rarely true of those who resort to death threats.
In any event, this is hardly representative of mainstream opposition to the ID hokum. We've got all the facts in our corner, and that is very rarely true of those who resort to death threats.
9
@ 8 - That was my immediate impression as well. Anything's possible, obviously, but it seems pretty far-fetched. On the other hand, faking death threats is a win-win for the Discovery Institute - they get free publicity, and, once again, get an opportunity to play their tiny, tiny violins (everyone hates us! liberals are SO MEAN!), which is what they love most, anyway...
10
They need a "think tank" to try and fream up new and creative ways to spin their old, tired, re-tread message (you know, the one that's been shot down in flames by every judge it's gone in front of).
Still, if anybody really did threaten these guys, they're just as pathetic and just as much douchebags as the so-called "researchers."
Still, if anybody really did threaten these guys, they're just as pathetic and just as much douchebags as the so-called "researchers."
12
No one should ever threaten anti-American unpatriotic flat earthers like the people at the Discovery Institute with things like that.
Ever.
It hurts their teeny weeny brains.
Ever.
It hurts their teeny weeny brains.
14
Did they threaten them with ricin?
Seriously, they're always an angry word away from screaming "persecution". Hell, even two dudes kissing makes them cower under their beds.
Seriously, they're always an angry word away from screaming "persecution". Hell, even two dudes kissing makes them cower under their beds.
17
Hey, anyone who (like me) is masochistically fascinated by crackpot ideologues like the Discovery Institute people or wants to know more about how truly fucked the intelligent design movement is, check out this great book I just read Creationism's Trojan Horse: The Wedge of Intelligent Design by Barbara Forrest and Paul Gross.
It's available from the Seattle Public Library, and talks about how the DI and intelligent design movement is all about PR, not science. It's not that I thought any differently before reading the book -- it's just it uses their own words and documents to prove it more decisively. And it actually makes me really believe this might just be a PR stunt to get some attention.
It's available from the Seattle Public Library, and talks about how the DI and intelligent design movement is all about PR, not science. It's not that I thought any differently before reading the book -- it's just it uses their own words and documents to prove it more decisively. And it actually makes me really believe this might just be a PR stunt to get some attention.
18
Oh, wonderful. By all means let's go ahead and give those intellectually dishonest, morally bankrupt knuckledraggers more legal ammo with which to fight the fight of getting the public to ignore the fact that their ideas are utterly without merit. Thanks a bunch, Angry Atheist Teen. You're really fighting the good fight there, sending those angry emails.
Dumbass.
Dumbass.
19
Wow, they received a death threat. Next thing you know someone will question their mother's morality and perhaps imply she sells her favors cheaply.
20
If Intelligent Design did exist, this would be proof that God wanted the D.I. to cease to exist, since He obviously planned for them to shuffle off this mortal coil ...
21
I've receive death treats for assigning failing grades in eighth grade algebra. Sheesh, they need to grow a pair.
Well, grow a pair and think.
Well, grow a pair and think.
22
While threats are always inappropriate the really funny thing is that they get all worried over 3 emails whereas the leaders in evolutionary fields and the outspoken members of the Atheist community in America receive substantially higher quantities of death threats and threats of bodily harm... This from the loving christians...
And ID isn't an "alternative to Darwinism" it's a way of framing biblical creationism that they hoped would let them get unscientific concepts taught in science classrooms... The evidence for Evolution is overwhelming, the evidence for ID and Creationism is virtually non-existent...
And ID isn't an "alternative to Darwinism" it's a way of framing biblical creationism that they hoped would let them get unscientific concepts taught in science classrooms... The evidence for Evolution is overwhelming, the evidence for ID and Creationism is virtually non-existent...
23
"No one should ever threaten anti-American unpatriotic flat earthers like the people at the Discovery Institute with things like that."
Will, in all fairness to the best of my knowledge they have never taken a 'flat earth' stance... However feel free to mock and ridicule them for employ someone who managed to get a doctorate (as to how i have NO clue...) who is convinced that the sun and other planets all revolve around the sun...
Yes ladies and gentlemen, while the rest of the modern world has ascribed to the FACTUALLY PROVEN Heliocentric (sun centered) view of the solar system, the DI employs people who have managed to survive the dark ages and still believe in the DISPROVED geocentric (earth centered) model of our solar system...
remember kids... In the King James Bible Chronicles 16:30 state that "the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved." Psalm 104:5 says, "[the Lord] Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever." Ecclesiastes 1:5 states that "The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose."
This is what constitutes science at the DI... They aren't deserving of violent threats (or actions) but they most definitely deserve ridicule for seeking to keep science in the 15th century...
Will, in all fairness to the best of my knowledge they have never taken a 'flat earth' stance... However feel free to mock and ridicule them for employ someone who managed to get a doctorate (as to how i have NO clue...) who is convinced that the sun and other planets all revolve around the sun...
Yes ladies and gentlemen, while the rest of the modern world has ascribed to the FACTUALLY PROVEN Heliocentric (sun centered) view of the solar system, the DI employs people who have managed to survive the dark ages and still believe in the DISPROVED geocentric (earth centered) model of our solar system...
remember kids... In the King James Bible Chronicles 16:30 state that "the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved." Psalm 104:5 says, "[the Lord] Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever." Ecclesiastes 1:5 states that "The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose."
This is what constitutes science at the DI... They aren't deserving of violent threats (or actions) but they most definitely deserve ridicule for seeking to keep science in the 15th century...
24
I don't doubt they got real threats, there are rage-filled idiots of all stripes.
It's just clear from the numbers of threats received on either side that there are far, far more rage-filled idiots on the side of ID Creationism than against it.
It's just clear from the numbers of threats received on either side that there are far, far more rage-filled idiots on the side of ID Creationism than against it.
25
Seriously, actual biology professors get more death threats than this from psycho Evangelicals, they are little babies with a martyr complex.
26
Just about any major organization receives threatening letters. The fact that they are making a big deal out of this only show how unimportant they are. I do wonder at their motives for releasing this information though, I would think most threats are handled discreetly until a person is caught. The fact that someone bothered to report this to the media only makes me wonder if they are trying to gain sympathy from the act and perhaps convince more people of their "persecution". While I don't think they deserved to have such letters sent to them (no one does), I find it ironic since many IDers and creationists (while maybe not directly affiliated with the DI) regularly seem to send such emails threatening eternal damnation as well as sometimes often or not actual physical harm to those whose ideas conflict with theirs.
28
Joel @23: The "doctorate" is probably from some backwoods Bible college who had the person speak at their graduation ceremony. The evangelical world is full of faux academics pretending to be intelligent and learned scholars.
29
he solution to the atheist problem
@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.
http://nostradamus.awardspace.info
@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.
no need to respond, you little lying douche bags
how to debate an atheist:
http://bajan.files.wordpress.com/2009/02…
amazing, God himself has decided to CRUSH you...
now get lost...
@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.
http://nostradamus.awardspace.info
@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.
no need to respond, you little lying douche bags
how to debate an atheist:
http://bajan.files.wordpress.com/2009/02…
amazing, God himself has decided to CRUSH you...
now get lost...
30
The Dishonesty Institute's shill, Casey Luskin, gets weird threats almost every time he opens his mouth. He probably thought up this latest PR campaign all by himself.
31
Dwight Moody @ # 19: Next thing you know someone will question their mother's morality and perhaps imply she sells her favors cheaply.
Nah. She's way overpriced.
Nah. She's way overpriced.
32
stick to biology, you ugly old fart pz....
I am very sane and very aware how to deal with you little shits...
the definitive solution to the *atheist problem*
@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.
http://nostradamus.awardspace.info
@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.
no need to respond, you little lying douche bags
how to debate an atheist:
http://bajan.files.wordpress.com/2009/02…
amazing, God himself has decided to CRUSH you...
now get lost...
I am very sane and very aware how to deal with you little shits...
the definitive solution to the *atheist problem*
@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.
http://nostradamus.awardspace.info
@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.
no need to respond, you little lying douche bags
how to debate an atheist:
http://bajan.files.wordpress.com/2009/02…
amazing, God himself has decided to CRUSH you...
now get lost...
35
I agree with a number of commenters above. While the letter may have been real, I personally could just as easily see it as being a fake. It generates free publicity, amps up the persecution complex, gets uninformed free speech advocates' sympathy for their rights to free speech, amp up active DI contributors and supporters, and it smears the opposition and feeds into a negative image of their cultural competitors.
Further, this sort of behaviour is far more typical of those who don't have reason on their side and who are trying to push some sort of irrational agenda. Scientology, for instance, has been busted sending themselves faked threats.
Of course, it could well have been real. The DI pisses me off profoundly, and I know I'm not alone in this. It's not that surprising that out of millions of pissed off people (who have very good reason to be fuming with this pack of ignoramuses, dogmatists, and liars) there will be the occasional threat of violence.
Further, this sort of behaviour is far more typical of those who don't have reason on their side and who are trying to push some sort of irrational agenda. Scientology, for instance, has been busted sending themselves faked threats.
Of course, it could well have been real. The DI pisses me off profoundly, and I know I'm not alone in this. It's not that surprising that out of millions of pissed off people (who have very good reason to be fuming with this pack of ignoramuses, dogmatists, and liars) there will be the occasional threat of violence.
36
davemabus: so at what point in your life did you become hateful and reject god's love for all? Because he loves us atheists, professors, and biologists more than he does liars and deceivers.
<3
<3
37
Let's hope it's just a figment of their imagination - along the lines of their so-called "science". I mean to say, what would the comedy industry do without DI material to parody, lampoon and satirise.
38
I strongly disagree with any kind of threat, and certainly if it hints of deatht hreat, but in all fairness, this "shut up or die"-quote doesnt sound much like a death threat, it sounds more like a suggestion ie: "why dont you just go away or die".
In a legal dispute (and I am no legal expert), i believe this wouldnt qualify as a credible or real death threat. For that to be the case, it would have to be a repeated stream of "vague hints" like this, or something more unambiguous ie: "I know where you live and i will kill you"
I still disapprove strongly with this kind of talk tho, even if the recipients are the deranged, lying, stupid lunatics at the Discovery Institute
In a legal dispute (and I am no legal expert), i believe this wouldnt qualify as a credible or real death threat. For that to be the case, it would have to be a repeated stream of "vague hints" like this, or something more unambiguous ie: "I know where you live and i will kill you"
I still disapprove strongly with this kind of talk tho, even if the recipients are the deranged, lying, stupid lunatics at the Discovery Institute
39
It's sad people act so foolish for attention or are baited by an angry host, in this case, I think the threats against DI were for the attention.
40
The point, I guess, is that we'd gain a lot more ground if we could stay above reproach. It would be awfully nice to believe that everyone on our side (that being the rational, thinking, evidence-based side, we like to think. The science side.) was rational and logical and intelligent, but that's just not the case. We have some trend-hopping, angsty, rabid, militant anti-religion types who have no more legitimate reasoning behind their position than the rabid, militant, religious types on the other side do. They aren't helping our cause. They don't even really UNDERSTAND our cause, but they identify as supporters anyway, and are vocal and outspoken even in their ignorance.
Sending death threats and rude comments and the like is not going to advance our goals in any way. We want to make people think, not make them run screaming. We want to appeal to their intellect (however stunted and repressed it might be), not their knee-jerk "BLASPHEMY!!!" reactions. We want to help people understand why we're right, not just smile smugly to ourselves about it and go "neener neener we're right and you're idiots" just because we can. That helps no one and changes nothing for the better.
Sending death threats and rude comments and the like is not going to advance our goals in any way. We want to make people think, not make them run screaming. We want to appeal to their intellect (however stunted and repressed it might be), not their knee-jerk "BLASPHEMY!!!" reactions. We want to help people understand why we're right, not just smile smugly to ourselves about it and go "neener neener we're right and you're idiots" just because we can. That helps no one and changes nothing for the better.
42
I get threats every now and then because I am an outspoken atheist. Some are not as subtle as "shutup or die". So far, No one has knocked on my door to beat Jesus into me (an exact phraze from one of my letters). So, I doubt that Buri has much to worry about. Buri and I should start a "threatened on the net club" and we can get together to have coffee and share our threatening emails. Along with many, many more people.
43
I wish that we could put an internet ban on Davemabus's access to forums, or anywhere that he can leave a comment. He has invaded a forum of which I am a member, and is so stupid, that he only adds a few 9's to the end of his name. A few examples are:
Davemabus
Davemabus999
Davemabus9999
Davemabus2009
Can we please just ban him?
Davemabus
Davemabus999
Davemabus9999
Davemabus2009
Can we please just ban him?
46
The DI's 'views' on evolution are fabrications, and the DI knows it. The threatening emails? likely more of the same.
47
"Death threats" like this are silly and possibly illegal. Especially since the Disco 'Tute is fated to die of its own irony.
49
Is this a hate website? Those on here should read the new book Slaughter of the Dissidents which documents in detail with almost 1,000 footnotes and close to 500 small print pages the fact that questioning orthodox Darwinism today can, and often does, end a promising career in academia and at times death threats. All of the cases in the film Expelled are meticulously documented in this book, proving the website expelled exposed is inaccurate and distorted. This is the first volume of a series of books documenting the fact that opposition to what has become a dogmatic worldview called Darwinism is a career ender. The book does not argue for evolution, creation, or Intelligent Design, but for academic freedom and the right to be part of the current exciting scientific discussion about origins. The prejudice and irrational opposition against those who challenge Darwinism (or neo-Darwinism, if you prefer) is horrendous.
50
Surely they don't deserve death threats. But, they also don't deserve to be called a research group, since they don't publish research, and spend most of their money on public relations firms. Do they?
51
The nostradamusa link appears to be broken. Not that a shopped explosion can do anything but affirm to atheists that only causation from within governs our universe.
Sucks someone had to threaten the Discovery Institute, as threats of violence lend an implication of legitimacy to their cause. I'd like to believe it's a plant, and I hope the authorities determine this to be the case. Regardless, I hope they get the bastard.
But the Discovery Institute is certainly not worthy of martyrdom. Rather, their special decline and fall is to the humiliation cha-cha. If it weren't for them, we wouldn't have glorious memes like the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster to celebrate their absurdity.
The Catholic Church (eventually) handled the whole heliocentrism thing by incorporating it into Church tradition, as they did, if memory serves, Evolution. This works because tradition trumps scripture. The protestants can't do that because there is no official church to hold traditions. It's supposed to be you and God, and no-one in between dictating how to interpret what.
Sadly this doesn't keep a parish well congealed, so many ministries would rather tell you who Jesus would bomb, rather than rather than ask you what you think.
IDT is an alternative theory to evolution only for those who don't understand the differences between the two. I've yet to find an IDT proponent who does.
Sucks someone had to threaten the Discovery Institute, as threats of violence lend an implication of legitimacy to their cause. I'd like to believe it's a plant, and I hope the authorities determine this to be the case. Regardless, I hope they get the bastard.
But the Discovery Institute is certainly not worthy of martyrdom. Rather, their special decline and fall is to the humiliation cha-cha. If it weren't for them, we wouldn't have glorious memes like the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster to celebrate their absurdity.
The Catholic Church (eventually) handled the whole heliocentrism thing by incorporating it into Church tradition, as they did, if memory serves, Evolution. This works because tradition trumps scripture. The protestants can't do that because there is no official church to hold traditions. It's supposed to be you and God, and no-one in between dictating how to interpret what.
Sadly this doesn't keep a parish well congealed, so many ministries would rather tell you who Jesus would bomb, rather than rather than ask you what you think.
IDT is an alternative theory to evolution only for those who don't understand the differences between the two. I've yet to find an IDT proponent who does.
52
Footnotes don't make the tales accurate. "Expelled" was the wrong title; it should have been "Flunked."
All of the cases in the film Expelled are meticulously documented in this book, proving the website expelled exposed is inaccurate and distorted.
Footnotes don't make the tales accurate. "Expelled" was the wrong title; it should have been "Flunked."
53
@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.
http://nostradamus.atspace.com/
@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.
Atheist? We can fix that...
http://nostradamus.atspace.com/
@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.@}-,-`-.
Atheist? We can fix that...
54
What I always find amusing is feminists who attack creationists but then get pissed off when you point out they are fat and ugly and you seek out more attractive partners in order to satisfy your evolutionary instincts.
You just can't win somedays.
You just can't win somedays.
55
I suppose you are, by the same line of thought, completely understanding about it when the shallow attractive types you do find attractive dump you for the young rich guy in order to satisfy *their* evolved instincts?
A thin physique has been a point of attraction only in the last century or two. During most of the middle ages, a woman "with meat on her bones" was ensured to survive the winter when not everybody did. We see this still in certain parts of Africa (and some cultures of the US) where, contrary to the western stereotypical definitions of ideal beauty, heavy women are preferred and chosen by the elite.
So when you're saying someone is fat [and therefore] ugly, you're not acting on "evolutionary instincts", but your childhood imprinting on Barbie and Playboy. But mostly, you're just being an asshole.
But we're in luck, as women are more able to breadwin for themselves, their standards as to the male ideal becomes more flexible as well, and they're more inclined to mate with poor sods such as yourself, provided you have any other redeeming qualities.
A thin physique has been a point of attraction only in the last century or two. During most of the middle ages, a woman "with meat on her bones" was ensured to survive the winter when not everybody did. We see this still in certain parts of Africa (and some cultures of the US) where, contrary to the western stereotypical definitions of ideal beauty, heavy women are preferred and chosen by the elite.
So when you're saying someone is fat [and therefore] ugly, you're not acting on "evolutionary instincts", but your childhood imprinting on Barbie and Playboy. But mostly, you're just being an asshole.
But we're in luck, as women are more able to breadwin for themselves, their standards as to the male ideal becomes more flexible as well, and they're more inclined to mate with poor sods such as yourself, provided you have any other redeeming qualities.
56
"We see this still in certain parts of Africa (and some cultures of the US) where, contrary to the western stereotypical definitions of ideal beauty, heavy women are preferred and chosen by the elite."
========
All this means is that they are fucking retarded. They rape babies in Africa thinking it cures AIDS too.
========
All this means is that they are fucking retarded. They rape babies in Africa thinking it cures AIDS too.
57
From first hand knowledge I know that this threatening e-mail was not a plant and that the Discovery Institute (DI) reported the incident believing that it would not be made public. This was not the first threat that they have received, and some threats were worse then this one, and they know it will not be the last threat, so the folks at DI were trying to deal with the problem in the best way possible. Somehow it was made public (a media leakage?) and caused more problems.
58
First hand? How close are you to the situation, Abby?
As I said, I have no love for the Discovery Institute, but don't regard them as an adversary worthy of obliteration or even threats. And I still imagine that these emails, if genuine, only further their cause.
Sadly, many folks on the atheist bandwagon are on it because it's an alternative bandwagon, and not because they reasoned it through, and are as prone to argumentum ad baculum as those on the other side. The threat of violence in the name of a position weakens that position in the eyes of the neutral public since it conveys the illusion of desperation.
As I said, I have no love for the Discovery Institute, but don't regard them as an adversary worthy of obliteration or even threats. And I still imagine that these emails, if genuine, only further their cause.
Sadly, many folks on the atheist bandwagon are on it because it's an alternative bandwagon, and not because they reasoned it through, and are as prone to argumentum ad baculum as those on the other side. The threat of violence in the name of a position weakens that position in the eyes of the neutral public since it conveys the illusion of desperation.
59
All this angst because someone wrote "Shut the fuck up or die?" Big deal. When did someone blowing off steam become a reason to call in the National Guard? The Discovery Institute probably knows this was an idle threat at best, but they want to make a big deal about it so they can say they are being persecuted for their beliefs. I am not falling for this bullshit. They are using police resources, paid for by taxpayers, to advance their agenda.
Hey Discovery Institute, Shut The Fuck Up or I'll put a pox on your house! And send locusts and frogs and a plagues too! All the trials of Job will come your way if you do not shut the fuck up NOW!
There. Now you have a threat of BIBLICAL proportions. Go call the police. Assholes.
Hey Discovery Institute, Shut The Fuck Up or I'll put a pox on your house! And send locusts and frogs and a plagues too! All the trials of Job will come your way if you do not shut the fuck up NOW!
There. Now you have a threat of BIBLICAL proportions. Go call the police. Assholes.
60
Well, since the DI has a history lying about everything, I distrust their story. And why would anyone want to cut off a free supply of comedy gold?
Has anyone held that "death-threat email" up to a mirror?
Has anyone held that "death-threat email" up to a mirror?
61
I never cease to be amazed as to how absolutely nasty and irrational the opponents of the Discovery Institute are. No wonder 90 percent of the population hold to some form of Intelligent Design. This blog illustrates this observation very well. Is this what Darwinism makes people into? The only rational person who calmly states their views without some nasty remarks on here is Abby. Darwinism fundamentalists are not nice people. I have carefully investigated the accusations of lying leveled against the DI and found all without any merit whatsoever. None. As I said, Darwinism fundamentalists are not very nice people and this blog proves it.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
It's Spring! Who's Ready for Street Harassment? by Cienna Madrid
-
SL Letter of the Day: Insane Demands by Dan Savage
-
SL Letters of the Day: Just Say No to DSGs by Dan Savage
-
New Gun Enthusiast... by Dan Savage
-
Bigot Florist Files Countersuit by Dominic Holden
-
America Doesn't Care About Black People by Charles Mudede
-
SL Letter of the Day: Gonna Boil My Laptop After Answering This One by Dan Savage
-
"Bus service shouldn't be optional—it should be a right." by Cienna Madrid
-
US Military Grants Itself the Power to Police American Streets and "Quell" "Civil Disturbances" by Brendan Kiley
-
Fucking NBA Rejects Kings Move to Seattle by Goldy
Stranger Personals
The Stranger
RSSSeattle Art & Performance Quarterly
A complete guide to Seattle's current art, film, dance, and theater season.
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (61) RSS