Slog
News & ArtsFriday, April 10, 2009
Media In Praise of Anonymous Comments
Posted by Paul Constant on Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 2:11 PM
A former editor and executive editor at the Washington Post, someone who was originally against WaPo having blogs at all, has written an explanation of why he thinks anonymous comments are a good idea:
I believe that it is useful to be reminded bluntly that the dark forces are out there and that it is too easy to forget that truth by imposing rules that obscure it...Too many of us like to think that we have made great progress in human relations and that little remains to be done. Unmoderated comments provide an antidote to such ridiculous conclusions.
It's a little haughty in its execution, but I agree completely with this essay. With all the subgroups available on the internet today, it's easy to get lost in a bubble of comfort. Anonymous douchebags at least remind you that there are plenty of people who disagree with you.
2
So, the people who pepper every post with reminders that ECB stole a bottle of wine, and Dan Savage supported the Iraq war in 2002 are doing us favors by reminding us that there's more to the story?
Nope. They just disrupt the on-topic conversation. Yeah, over-moderated boards are useless. Banning people because they hold views you find repugnant isn't what anyone is asking for. But trolls who have no other goal than disrupting and hijacking a conversation don't add anything. It just makes us all stupider.
Nope. They just disrupt the on-topic conversation. Yeah, over-moderated boards are useless. Banning people because they hold views you find repugnant isn't what anyone is asking for. But trolls who have no other goal than disrupting and hijacking a conversation don't add anything. It just makes us all stupider.
3
Ironic, I just came back from reading the Seattle Times' comment section. Bunch of right wing assholes over there. I tend to want to get in arguments with them, but they make it too hard to start commenting and the last thing I'm looking to do is share my info with them.
But that shit makes me come running back to Slog real fast. I love my bubble.
But that shit makes me come running back to Slog real fast. I love my bubble.
4
Gives anonymous commenters too much credit. I know for certain that Mr. "black people are always responsible for crime" doesn't add anything of value.
7
In my mind, commenter registration cuts down on the ECB wine, Dan war, typical NIB, black people all commit crimes -type trolls (which is good -- we gain nothing from those people). It does not cut down on the Loveschilds or the raindrops, which is fine by me. Those are the people who actually present what their views are and "remind us that there are plenty of people who disagree with us". The other people are just noise -- it'd be nice if we didn't have to deal with them.
8
It's so sad seeing people flailing around about such elementary design issues. Slashdot figured out these problems ages ago.
-Allow anonymous comment, but force them to be declared as such in their postings.
-Allow registered commenters, with reputation scores and periodic moderation privileges.
-Encourage meta-moderation to counter balance user moderation bias (meta-moderators are more likely to gain mod points).
-Allow comment viewing to be based on rating threshold so you don't have to wade through low rated comments.
-Assign a "karma" score to each user reflecting their reputation based on the moderation scores of previous posts.
-Allow categories for post moderation (Funny, Informative, Off-Topic, Flamebait, Interesting, Troll) so comments can be categorized.
-Allow anonymous comment, but force them to be declared as such in their postings.
-Allow registered commenters, with reputation scores and periodic moderation privileges.
-Encourage meta-moderation to counter balance user moderation bias (meta-moderators are more likely to gain mod points).
-Allow comment viewing to be based on rating threshold so you don't have to wade through low rated comments.
-Assign a "karma" score to each user reflecting their reputation based on the moderation scores of previous posts.
-Allow categories for post moderation (Funny, Informative, Off-Topic, Flamebait, Interesting, Troll) so comments can be categorized.
9
@4 Perhaps your expectactions are too high.
I think this article, and Paul Constant's comments, point to the fact that, no matter how OBNOXIOUS some commenters may be, they act as a reminder that there really are people like that out there who believe such things.
Lacking that, these forums would quickly take on an isolated "ivory tower" mentality that reflects little more than the popular attitudes of Capitol Hill.
It's a big and ugly world full of strange and frightening people...
Trolls and zealots are a reality check, a reminder of this.
I think this article, and Paul Constant's comments, point to the fact that, no matter how OBNOXIOUS some commenters may be, they act as a reminder that there really are people like that out there who believe such things.
Lacking that, these forums would quickly take on an isolated "ivory tower" mentality that reflects little more than the popular attitudes of Capitol Hill.
It's a big and ugly world full of strange and frightening people...
Trolls and zealots are a reality check, a reminder of this.
10
I don't disagree with you, Paul. I think you're a puerile, pathetic little dork, but in order for me to disagree with you, you'd actually have to have something remotely resembling a spine.
11
@4: Exactly.
nor does Mr. "butt sex poopy obsessed" whatever.
that kind of douching up the internet isn't about keeping it real or keeping us grounded in reality, it's about them exposing their petty and warped pathology to any bystander.
nor does Mr. "butt sex poopy obsessed" whatever.
that kind of douching up the internet isn't about keeping it real or keeping us grounded in reality, it's about them exposing their petty and warped pathology to any bystander.
12
wow, i never knew that everyone wasn't exactly like me until i read blog comments. i feel so small now.
13
The minute I have to register here, I'm gone - how else will I be able to criticize my employer? People gotta vent you know.
14
@ 8, a lot of that stuff was abused at Daily Kos. Just doing the first step and having registration - without ratings - is all that is needed.
16
"Anonymous douchebags at least remind you that there are plenty of people who disagree with you."
Or that there's one person who disagrees with you but posts six responses to each comment, each under a different name.
I'd argue that registration would further your anti-bubble motives by telling us how many people disagree with us, rather than letting dissenters use the permissive posting rules disguise themselves as many people.
The biggest problem here isn't anonymity, it's polynymity.
Or that there's one person who disagrees with you but posts six responses to each comment, each under a different name.
I'd argue that registration would further your anti-bubble motives by telling us how many people disagree with us, rather than letting dissenters use the permissive posting rules disguise themselves as many people.
The biggest problem here isn't anonymity, it's polynymity.
18
Registration, it should be said, wouldn't prevent anonymous comments. It just ensures that the commenter has a valid e-mail address. Which in turn cuts down on the bored idiots pretending to be 100 different people.
Seriously, if you can't figure out how to register anonymously, you fail at the internet.
Seriously, if you can't figure out how to register anonymously, you fail at the internet.
19
@9: Thank you, Ackham. I'm glad someone got the point. If you hide the dark underbelly, then you begin to think it doesn't exist.
20
@16:
The biggest problem here isn't anonymity, it's polynymity.
and we all know thats just a slippery slope that leads to beastiymity....
The biggest problem here isn't anonymity, it's polynymity.
and we all know thats just a slippery slope that leads to beastiymity....
22
@14 - To be sure, that model is still susceptible to systemic bias based on the crowd that frequents the site, there's not really any way to get around that no matter what you do.
On Slashdot that bias manifests as "linux is always better", "windows sucks", and "macs are expensive". Not surprising on a site frequented largely by linux sys admins, programmers and IT support people.
Never been to the daily kos boards, but I imagine it has a left leaning bias.
On Slashdot that bias manifests as "linux is always better", "windows sucks", and "macs are expensive". Not surprising on a site frequented largely by linux sys admins, programmers and IT support people.
Never been to the daily kos boards, but I imagine it has a left leaning bias.
23
@ 22, what happened at Kos was that a group of users there conspired to have other users banned by rating them as trolls. I forget the details, but they took advantage of the rating system to accomplish that.
Obviously that was partially Kos's decision, especially since being the single largest liberal blog in the country attracts a lot of right wing trolls; and it underscores that no system is perfect. But in general I say no ratings system is better than one.
Obviously that was partially Kos's decision, especially since being the single largest liberal blog in the country attracts a lot of right wing trolls; and it underscores that no system is perfect. But in general I say no ratings system is better than one.
24
Registration alone is sufficient. It's still anonymous (you can use any e-mail address), but it keeps people from posting under a slew of different aliases (without having to register multiple times). And you get to know people by their posting history, allowing you to dismiss the trolls quickly.
That said, I don't get the impression people here really want anyone to disagree. Even the intelligent ones get shouted down pretty routinely.
That said, I don't get the impression people here really want anyone to disagree. Even the intelligent ones get shouted down pretty routinely.
25
@22 - Short Daily Kos:
January 2007-January 2009: No skepticism about Obama allowed, he walks on water, the progressive savior to save us from what Bush hath wrought.
January 21, 2009- Present: Obama is just another corporate tool exactly like Bush.
January 2007-January 2009: No skepticism about Obama allowed, he walks on water, the progressive savior to save us from what Bush hath wrought.
January 21, 2009- Present: Obama is just another corporate tool exactly like Bush.
26
@23 Most of the commenters banned from Kos were supporters of other Democratic candidates(funniest is how especially nasty they were about Biden and Clinton supporters). Or people who wanted to push Obama harder on withdrawing from Iraq OR his ties to Wall Street and Larry Summers OR gay marriage.
27
wait, so all the kos trolls moved to slog now? that explains a lot of the last few months' activity.
28
I've found that the simplest way to avoid worthless comments on Slog is to ignore posts where the author uses a sentence for a handle.
29
Super Jesse is right.
But, actually, on slashdot, the global warming deniers almost always win, by downmodding the scientists, so it doesn't always work.
But, actually, on slashdot, the global warming deniers almost always win, by downmodding the scientists, so it doesn't always work.
30
Comments on blogs or web sites in general add zero to the original posts -- the best option would be to disallow them entirely.
32
But black people do commit a far greater percentage per capita of violent crime (and just plain outright if you include Africa), and buttsex does get poop on your weiner!
33
I think Mike @16 puts it just right. Registration is not about about banning people, or blowing their cover. It just means that when you throw up 19 comments on a single thread, everyone knows that is what you are doing. If that is too much loss of "anonymity" for you, you can always leave. If you have to post under the same handle every time, that will mostly put an end to "I'm this totally left wing guy. I just happen to agree with the Republican position on this one issue..." It will be clear from your collected opus of previous comments that, no, you are this totally Republican guy, who happens to agree with the Republican position, as always. That won't get you banned, but it does mean you will no longer be able to derail an otherwise interesting conversation. People will just ignore you. So, Mike @16, I say you're spot on. That said, @20's snipe is pretty funny! But you see it would have been just as funny if we knew it came from Raindrop, or Poe, oe EcceHomo, or Loveschild. Not that Loveschild has a sense of humor.
Perhaps it is significant that the commenters supporting polynimity on this thread are mostly one-time, no-reuse handles. Draw your own conclusions about who hates the idea so much, and why.
Perhaps it is significant that the commenters supporting polynimity on this thread are mostly one-time, no-reuse handles. Draw your own conclusions about who hates the idea so much, and why.
34
The problem with anonymous comments on our political culture is that electoral candidates' staff/ consultants engage in frequent sock puppetry. Malicious comments aren't just the expression of powerless trolls-- some trolling is just dirty politics by other means. And orchestrating positive comments about candidates on blogs has become a normal part of campaigns.
36
33
Why do you ignore remarks from Republicans and how do they 'derail an otherwise interesting conversation'?
Why do you ignore remarks from Republicans and how do they 'derail an otherwise interesting conversation'?
37
36 - that's not what they're doing. Loveschild, raindrop, YGBKM and a few others do that. You don't.
38
I'm with Julie @7. Loveschild, raindrop, etc may be right wing idiots, or whack jobs obsessed with Dan Savage's kid like ecce homo, but at least they have the courage to post (mostly) under consistent names. I've always thought those who post using some dumb sentence are pussies who are too afraid to identify themselves.
40
It's trivial to scan past the troll comments. I don't see a problem with letting them do their thing. It's not like you have to wade through hundreds of them on every thread.
I look at the poster's name first. There are a handful of regulars here whose opinion I value and look for. The rest I scan through for intelligent comments, regardless of whether I agree with them.
I look at the poster's name first. There are a handful of regulars here whose opinion I value and look for. The rest I scan through for intelligent comments, regardless of whether I agree with them.
41
Eric from Boulder @33: "That said, @20's snipe is pretty funny!"
I thought it was hilarious, too. I wish I knew who posted it so I could pay more attention to that person's posts.
I agree that the climate here might drive people to sock-puppetry. RainMan @38 is a good example: it seems just from reading that comment that those commenters are idiots in his view because they disagree with him. Whether or not that's the case (I have no idea whether his opinion is knee-jerk or carefully considered), I could see how some folks wouldn't consider it worth building an identity here if that identity is going to be thoroughly vilified by the majority.
I thought it was hilarious, too. I wish I knew who posted it so I could pay more attention to that person's posts.
I agree that the climate here might drive people to sock-puppetry. RainMan @38 is a good example: it seems just from reading that comment that those commenters are idiots in his view because they disagree with him. Whether or not that's the case (I have no idea whether his opinion is knee-jerk or carefully considered), I could see how some folks wouldn't consider it worth building an identity here if that identity is going to be thoroughly vilified by the majority.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
Hating People Doesn't Make Them Thinner by Jen Graves
-
Los Angeles Gay Bar Bans Bachelorette Parties Until Marriage Equality Is Attained by David Schmader
-
Fill in the Blank by Grant Brissey
-
This Reminds Me of the Great Calculator Scare of the Late '70s/Early '80s by David Schmader
-
Idiot Tries to Defend Bigoted Anti-Gay-Marriage Preacher on Anderson Cooper by Paul Constant
-
SL Letter of the Day: Putting It In by Dan Savage
-
Six Moms with Too Much Time on Their Hands and a Shitty Website Decide to Fight Gay Superheroes by Paul Constant
-
Why Mayor McGinn's Wife Canceled Her Family's Seattle Times Subscription by Eli Sanders
-
What the Hell Is Wrong With Seattle's Pride Parade? by Dominic Holden
-
Meet the UW "Swagga Suit" by David Schmader
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (41) RSS