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News & ArtsThursday, April 9, 2009
Homo Another Kid...
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 12:33 PM
...bullied to death. Who knows if this 11-year-old was even gay? Not the little monsters who bullied him and called him gay, not the school officials who failed to intervene, not the haters on the "religious" right who encourage their children to see gay people as less than human and then point to suicides like this one—by an eleven-years-old—as evidence that there's something wrong with gay people. (Via Towleroad.)
2
Man, that's terrible. How can anyone stop bullying though? It happens constantly and most of the time when no adults are around or using subtle things that only the kids even know about. As long as there are kids, there'll be bullies.
3
I live about an hour from this family. How sad. Central/western MA can be very 1950s/conservative/religious as opposed to eastern MA (Boston/Cambridge). The letters to the editor in the Worcester Telegram are downright chilling most of the time.
4
Dan, I read the linked news story three times and can't find where the bullies called him 'gay'. Is there another link I missed?
5
@4: "She phoned the school repeatedly since Carl began attending in September but the bullying continued, she said.
Other students made him a target, daily calling him gay, making fun of how he dressed and threatening him, she said."
Other students made him a target, daily calling him gay, making fun of how he dressed and threatening him, she said."
6
If Dan features every bullied kid in America as a victim of Gay Bashing it really will spike the statistics.
8
As someone who went to school in Massachusetts, and attempted suicide after years of being marginalized and bullied nonstop, being called "gay" among other epithets (I'm straight, not that it matters), I feel for this poor kid.
Like the article says, I sure as Hell felt "isolated and withdrawn" in my small town. I had no friends at school and used to dread having to get up and go in every single day for at least five years.
Ironically, I have an eleven year old boy now who recently fell in with a crowd that bullies some of the outsiders in his fifth grade class - not physically, just the rejection and exclusion stuff mentioned. It's so weird to be dealing with the opposite end of the dynamic as a disappointed parent, over half a lifetime later.
Like the article says, I sure as Hell felt "isolated and withdrawn" in my small town. I had no friends at school and used to dread having to get up and go in every single day for at least five years.
Ironically, I have an eleven year old boy now who recently fell in with a crowd that bullies some of the outsiders in his fifth grade class - not physically, just the rejection and exclusion stuff mentioned. It's so weird to be dealing with the opposite end of the dynamic as a disappointed parent, over half a lifetime later.
10
I'm not sure just how much a school can do to stop bullying. It happens under the radar so often, and the victims don't always want to draw attention to it.
It's a horrible story. Too bad that being called "gay" still holds so much power for kids.
It's a horrible story. Too bad that being called "gay" still holds so much power for kids.
11
It must have been blacks that bullied this black kid, because if it wasn't then we would be hearing all the blacks and white liberals shriek about "racism" instead of gayness.
12
Let's add his name to all the other children who will die because the Pope tells people not to use condoms. Talk about "deathstyle".
13
@8 So what are you doing to punish the little shit? I mean, if you really were the victim of bullying as a child, why are you now just "disappointed" that your kid is making life hell for other kids? Shouldn't you be "super fucking pissed" instead?
14
@7 I read the story on Towleroad earlier, so I don't need to click on the link.
I would love to hear Loveschild take on this. Of course it will be ignorant (his/her take usually is) but...
I would love to hear Loveschild take on this. Of course it will be ignorant (his/her take usually is) but...
16
@2: that attitude is part of the problem.
If half of what happens in an American middle or high school on any given day happened in any workplace, there would be lawsuits out the wazoo. But for some reason, we tolerate this kind of thing in school.
For the sake of kids like Carl, we must not.
If half of what happens in an American middle or high school on any given day happened in any workplace, there would be lawsuits out the wazoo. But for some reason, we tolerate this kind of thing in school.
For the sake of kids like Carl, we must not.
17
Isn't the reason behind bullying, is that their is something different or wrong about the person being bullied. At least that was the justification given to my teacher, when the teacher caught a girl in my class calling me a "four eyed freak". My classmate told the teacher that nobody liked me, because I wore contact and that made me ugly, so I couldn't sit with them as lunch. (My vision is so poor I needed contacts around the age of nine and a half.) Seems crazy now, but it sure hurt then.
Isn't the reason behind bullying, is that their is something different or wrong about the person being bullied. At least that was the justification given to my teacher, when the teacher caught a girl in my class calling me a "four eyed freak". My classmate told the teacher that nobody liked me, because I wore contact and that made me ugly, so I couldn't sit with them as lunch. (My vision is so poor I needed contacts around the age of nine and a half.) Seems crazy now, but it sure hurt then.
18
Jesus, this is heartbreaking. I can't imagine the frustration of trying to teach your beautiful child that he is valued and valuable, loved and worthy of love, and that life will get better, when he is faced with an onslaught of cruelty every day.
Well, I sort of can, as I remember my parents trying to do that for me.
Well, I sort of can, as I remember my parents trying to do that for me.
20
@13, short answer -- yes, I was super fucking pissed. It also broke my heart.
I heard about it from the parents of some of the boys being bullied, who by the way are friends, making the situation even more incomprehensible. I love my kid, and he's not a shit -- he did/said some shitty things to kids I thought were his buddies.
He was punished, and talked to many times since, and I'm working with the school and the parents of those other boys to make sure he doesn't do it again. We're switching up his school next year to try to give him a fresh start.
I heard about it from the parents of some of the boys being bullied, who by the way are friends, making the situation even more incomprehensible. I love my kid, and he's not a shit -- he did/said some shitty things to kids I thought were his buddies.
He was punished, and talked to many times since, and I'm working with the school and the parents of those other boys to make sure he doesn't do it again. We're switching up his school next year to try to give him a fresh start.
21
Another tragedy that's just reflective of the loss of values we are experiencing through society. I hope she will find through her faith the strength she needs to get through this difficult time. A tragic loss of a precious young man, until we restore the morals that made us a secure nation, until we bring God back into our public institutions I fear this sort of thing will continue to happen.
Shame on people like Dan Savage for their continued exploitation of tragedies such as this one.
Shame on people like Dan Savage for their continued exploitation of tragedies such as this one.
23
this is why i brought a gun to school and told the bully i was going to shoot him and his mother in their fucking heads.
made perfect sense back then.
made perfect sense back then.
25
So, if we bring prayer back into the schools the bulling will stop. Is that what you're saying @ 21? I'm not sure that will work, seeing as reciting the Lord's Prayer in school, didn't prevent my dad from being bullied as a kid.
Perhaps, those who attended religious schools have some insight.
Perhaps, those who attended religious schools have some insight.
26
Oh, boy.
Dan hit this one on the head in this respect. The kid didn't have to be gay. The kid could have been "smart" and he would have been teased in the same way. Speaking as a somewhat "smart kid" (actually, I'm just extremely nosy), I am all to familar with this. Myself, I wanted to commit suicide by the age of 9. Having bricks thrown at you on the playground and all that shit.
Dan hit this one on the head in this respect. The kid didn't have to be gay. The kid could have been "smart" and he would have been teased in the same way. Speaking as a somewhat "smart kid" (actually, I'm just extremely nosy), I am all to familar with this. Myself, I wanted to commit suicide by the age of 9. Having bricks thrown at you on the playground and all that shit.
27
@25 I attended a private Christian school through 8th grade. We had organized prayer, Bible class, Friday chapel, and the exact same bullying problems you would find in any other school.
28
25 Did your father commit suicide?
You wouldn't be here if he had Kim. When we allowed God to be more involved in our daily lives people were more prone to correct their harmful ways. Parents were more respectful between themselves and involved with their children's lives, and children respected and listened more to their parents.
I hardly believe you know anything about religious teachings and I honestly worry for some of the confusing things you post here in the name of Christianity.
You wouldn't be here if he had Kim. When we allowed God to be more involved in our daily lives people were more prone to correct their harmful ways. Parents were more respectful between themselves and involved with their children's lives, and children respected and listened more to their parents.
I hardly believe you know anything about religious teachings and I honestly worry for some of the confusing things you post here in the name of Christianity.
29
Quite a bit can by done by a school to address bullying. The most effective strategies focus on "by-standers," the students who are neither bully nor victim. By-standers are the ones that establish the tone in any environment, be it a school, workplace, etc. By giving students the skills to recognize bullying behavior, and how to discuss and address it with their peers, schools put the keys to solving the problem where it needs to be: in the hands of the students. Most bullies are savvy enough to not taunt in kid in the presence of adults, so the watchdogs have to be among the kids themselves. But it can't just be a one-time only program; no single guest speaker, no single film on the topic, and no single punishment is going to affect change. A school must adopt a continuous campaign to promote a safe culture.
30
@25
I spent years in religious schools reciting prayers a couple of times a day and attending Religion classes. I was bullied. I bullied. School (and private) prayer didn't do a damned thing to stop it. If you openly expressed a difference of opinion or insight into a religious belief you got a whole new kind of bullying from the kids, the staff, and the pastor. Kind of like the silly-ass religious debates going on in the nation right now.
I feel terrible for Carl's mom, and for Carl. What a waste.
I spent years in religious schools reciting prayers a couple of times a day and attending Religion classes. I was bullied. I bullied. School (and private) prayer didn't do a damned thing to stop it. If you openly expressed a difference of opinion or insight into a religious belief you got a whole new kind of bullying from the kids, the staff, and the pastor. Kind of like the silly-ass religious debates going on in the nation right now.
I feel terrible for Carl's mom, and for Carl. What a waste.
31
Loveschild @ 28?
What? You're response to my question if you thought bringing prayer back into school would eliminate bullying makes absolutely no sense.
What? You're response to my question if you thought bringing prayer back into school would eliminate bullying makes absolutely no sense.
33
Hernandez @ 27 and TacomaRoma @ 30,
Thank you for sharing your experience. You answered my question. I don't see how having prayer would eliminate bullying, perhaps it could help to lessen it, but it would not eliminate it.
Thank you for sharing your experience. You answered my question. I don't see how having prayer would eliminate bullying, perhaps it could help to lessen it, but it would not eliminate it.
34
good afternoon, kim.
Obviously Loveschild doesn't know about the bullying that comes with people who are different and/or think differently. Sheeesh, all you to do is pick up a history book.
Obviously Loveschild doesn't know about the bullying that comes with people who are different and/or think differently. Sheeesh, all you to do is pick up a history book.
35
Prayer obviously doesn't work because I have been praying that Loveschild and her ilk would open their eyes and realize that we are all equal and deserve to be treated the same and that hasn't happened.
36
Loveschild @ 28,
You are welcome to speculate about my understanding of scripture, my prayer life and even my eternal salvation all you want. Your calling me a blasphemer yesterday in your post to Matt from Denver spoke volumes.
Lucky for me, your opinion is just your opinion. You are not omnipresent, omniscent, nor omnipotent. I do not have to answer to you nor justify myself to you. In a nut shell, your opinion has no bearing upon my salvation.
I forgive you for your name calling and for the presumptions you make about me.
You are welcome to speculate about my understanding of scripture, my prayer life and even my eternal salvation all you want. Your calling me a blasphemer yesterday in your post to Matt from Denver spoke volumes.
Lucky for me, your opinion is just your opinion. You are not omnipresent, omniscent, nor omnipotent. I do not have to answer to you nor justify myself to you. In a nut shell, your opinion has no bearing upon my salvation.
I forgive you for your name calling and for the presumptions you make about me.
38
This just reminds me that I don't want to have kids without the resources to home school them if need be. I would only choose that option under these kinds of circumstances, but the benefits kids get from interacting with their peers are not worth the psychological damage from really severe bullying.
@29,
That can help with really outrageous bullying (name calling or especially violence), but kids are very adept at making other kids feel like shit by not doing much at all. Just turning the target into a complete social outcast; refusing to talk to him; refusing to sit with him at lunch; making faces if assigned to sit next to him in class, work with him on an assignment, or play with him on the same team can be as or even more effective than outright bullying.
@29,
That can help with really outrageous bullying (name calling or especially violence), but kids are very adept at making other kids feel like shit by not doing much at all. Just turning the target into a complete social outcast; refusing to talk to him; refusing to sit with him at lunch; making faces if assigned to sit next to him in class, work with him on an assignment, or play with him on the same team can be as or even more effective than outright bullying.
39
36 It is not your understanding of scripture that worries me about you.
Please look up Mark 3:29, for it is your insistence on this and worst of all your exhortation to those here(through your corruption of the scriptures) to do the same that worries me. I have nothing but the love of Christ in my heart for you, no matter if how many false assumptions you make about me.
Prayer and communion with our Creator does have the effect of deterring tragedies like this one. When children are taught about the love of Christ they can't help but wanting to imitate it and experience it in their lives.
Please look up Mark 3:29, for it is your insistence on this and worst of all your exhortation to those here(through your corruption of the scriptures) to do the same that worries me. I have nothing but the love of Christ in my heart for you, no matter if how many false assumptions you make about me.
Prayer and communion with our Creator does have the effect of deterring tragedies like this one. When children are taught about the love of Christ they can't help but wanting to imitate it and experience it in their lives.
40
Hateschild is regurgitating the same old bullshit and romanticizing a possible cure that looks a whole lot like the disease. What a surprise. You can't have a discussion with a person like Hateschild they simply parrot the same statement over and over regardless of the evidence that said statement is totally backwards and wrong. Intolerance and a widely held belief that intolerance as prescribed by many Christian churches is actually a rational and moral perspective, breed the hate that results in these types of tragedies. But the argument of the intolerant is that if everyone shared the same exact religious ideals as Hateschild, everyone would get along and no one would commit suicide or bully because everyone would agree on everything (because they would have to or they would have to move somewhere else). Celebrate diversity! As long as it’s a diversity of people who whoop and wail for Jeebus!
41
I like how Loveschild hung on until he figured out an angle he could exploit (death by lack of prayer in school).
42
The love of Christ isn't the problem. It's the hateful bigots that teach it that do a great disservice to Christ.
43
@39, the accusation about "false assumptions" is particularly rich coming from you--especially in a passive-aggressive, back-handed post accusing a good and Christian person of blasphemy.
I think it's particularly amusing that you use the scripture crudely and in vain on what appears to be an hourly basis. You do know the act of claiming the attributes or prerogatives of God/Creater/whatever, which you do all the time, is blasphemy...right?
I think it's particularly amusing that you use the scripture crudely and in vain on what appears to be an hourly basis. You do know the act of claiming the attributes or prerogatives of God/Creater/whatever, which you do all the time, is blasphemy...right?
44
Loveschild, when was that, exactly? What era was that in which "we allowed God to be more involved in our daily lives" and "people were more prone to correct their harmful ways?"
Oddly enough, in these Sodomic times where your impositional concept of morality is crumbling under the juggernaut of progress, schools are statistically safer than ever. We just didn't give two cents during the cold war when some brainy non-conformist weakling laid his head on the railroad tracks. If he was a loser, he didn't make headlines.
Are you delusional? Do you ever bother to research before you spew your mouth off, or is it as the others say that you're just here to regurgitate the party propaganda like a Fox News pundit?
U.
Oddly enough, in these Sodomic times where your impositional concept of morality is crumbling under the juggernaut of progress, schools are statistically safer than ever. We just didn't give two cents during the cold war when some brainy non-conformist weakling laid his head on the railroad tracks. If he was a loser, he didn't make headlines.
Are you delusional? Do you ever bother to research before you spew your mouth off, or is it as the others say that you're just here to regurgitate the party propaganda like a Fox News pundit?
U.
45
LOL
One Loveschild post = 15 posts responding to her mindless drivel.
This will make #44. Let's see...the purple line home...I say, 65 posts by the time I get home.
I started to say 75 but...
One Loveschild post = 15 posts responding to her mindless drivel.
This will make #44. Let's see...the purple line home...I say, 65 posts by the time I get home.
I started to say 75 but...
47
I also attended religious schools, from 2nd through 8th grade, with a little home-schooling mixed in. For the poster that wants to be able to home school their future children: stop thinking that way, right now, unless you want the most mal-adjusted, socially awkward kid possible. It's a horrible, reactionary decision by parents who are terrified of the great unknown of "public schools". News flash (or not) - kids have always bullied, and public schools have always been a gauntlet. It's not the school, it's just part of growing up. Were ANY of us NOT confused constantly during childhood? It's perfectly normal.
Religious schools have the same problems, of course, because they have kids attending them! It can be made worse with the added specter of "hell" hanging over everyone's heads. Not only are you disobeying your teacher, you make little baby Jebus cry(!), for which you'll certainly go to hell.... unless you recite the magic words the guy in the suit & tie tells you.
I don't know that I did any bullying, but I do remember being pulled off the 1st grade bully by the playground monitor, as I was raining Capt. Kirk double-handed sledges on him. That was public school. In 6th grade (Tacoma Baptist), I was bullied by two kids who were kind of misfits. I hated the school for a variety of reasons, and transfered out after one semester.
The playground has forever been the universal training ground for kids to learn social skills. We have to be careful to not restrict that too much because one kid just isn't learning those lessons, or their parents are selfish assholes. If a kid can't adjust, or is subject to excessive abuse, then parents need to step in. We are social creatures, after all, so being a non-social freak just goes against the grain. We should expect the herd to try to rein in those on the fringes.
More...
Religious schools have the same problems, of course, because they have kids attending them! It can be made worse with the added specter of "hell" hanging over everyone's heads. Not only are you disobeying your teacher, you make little baby Jebus cry(!), for which you'll certainly go to hell.... unless you recite the magic words the guy in the suit & tie tells you.
I don't know that I did any bullying, but I do remember being pulled off the 1st grade bully by the playground monitor, as I was raining Capt. Kirk double-handed sledges on him. That was public school. In 6th grade (Tacoma Baptist), I was bullied by two kids who were kind of misfits. I hated the school for a variety of reasons, and transfered out after one semester.
The playground has forever been the universal training ground for kids to learn social skills. We have to be careful to not restrict that too much because one kid just isn't learning those lessons, or their parents are selfish assholes. If a kid can't adjust, or is subject to excessive abuse, then parents need to step in. We are social creatures, after all, so being a non-social freak just goes against the grain. We should expect the herd to try to rein in those on the fringes.
48
@32
Many religious social conservatives point to the suicide rates of homosexuals as evidence that the "homosexual lifestyle" is inherently pathological, forgetting to realize that it's homophobia that causes the suicide. In other words, they use the increased suicide rates that they cause to further their own agenda. It's just sick.
http://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead.html
http://www.catholiceducation.org/article…
http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modul…
Many religious social conservatives point to the suicide rates of homosexuals as evidence that the "homosexual lifestyle" is inherently pathological, forgetting to realize that it's homophobia that causes the suicide. In other words, they use the increased suicide rates that they cause to further their own agenda. It's just sick.
http://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead.html
http://www.catholiceducation.org/article…
http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modul…
49
"Loveschild", your trolling in other threads was sometimes funny in a jaded, cynical way, but you've taken the joke too far in this thread and have crossed the line into something inhuman, threadjacking a discussion of a tragedy, disrespecting the horrible loss this community and family has endured and also misrepresenting what real Christians in America (not to mention actual feeling human beings with souls) think on this or any issue. Please, just stop.
50
@ 39,
So, you have determined that I am guilty of committing the unforgivable sin? (Or you fear that I am going to.) That I have or will blaphemes against the Holy Spirit? You understand that blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, is attributing the work of God through the Holy Spirit to satan. Yes? And you think that my sharing why I love Christ is attributing God's presence in my life to satan? And, you think because I question the accuracy of English language translations of scriptures, because their is 25+ years of research by Biblical Scholars and Biblical Historians who believe some passages have been mistranslated is attributing God's work through the Holy Spirit to satan. And, you think it is wrong to want to understand liturgies found in the Vatican for same-sex marriage ceremonies is attributing God's work through the Holy Spirit to satan. Okay. I have to say I disagree. God gave me a brain for a reason, He's the one I talk about this with.
I haven't made any false assumptions about you that I am aware of. I have apologized in every instance you thought me unfair or misjudging you. You on the other hand have called me a blasphemer and a racist.
It seems to me you are the only one here making false assumptions and jumping to conclusions.
I am glad that you have a new found devotion to Christ, you didn't have it as strongly a mere few weeks ago. It was you who said you knew very little of about the Bible. I can accept you believe you have nothing but the love of Christ for me. Still, your posts over the last several months have been unkind (at times down right nasty) to many of us, so forgive me if I think your actions (in your typed words) speak much louder than your present posts.
So, you have determined that I am guilty of committing the unforgivable sin? (Or you fear that I am going to.) That I have or will blaphemes against the Holy Spirit? You understand that blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, is attributing the work of God through the Holy Spirit to satan. Yes? And you think that my sharing why I love Christ is attributing God's presence in my life to satan? And, you think because I question the accuracy of English language translations of scriptures, because their is 25+ years of research by Biblical Scholars and Biblical Historians who believe some passages have been mistranslated is attributing God's work through the Holy Spirit to satan. And, you think it is wrong to want to understand liturgies found in the Vatican for same-sex marriage ceremonies is attributing God's work through the Holy Spirit to satan. Okay. I have to say I disagree. God gave me a brain for a reason, He's the one I talk about this with.
I haven't made any false assumptions about you that I am aware of. I have apologized in every instance you thought me unfair or misjudging you. You on the other hand have called me a blasphemer and a racist.
It seems to me you are the only one here making false assumptions and jumping to conclusions.
I am glad that you have a new found devotion to Christ, you didn't have it as strongly a mere few weeks ago. It was you who said you knew very little of about the Bible. I can accept you believe you have nothing but the love of Christ for me. Still, your posts over the last several months have been unkind (at times down right nasty) to many of us, so forgive me if I think your actions (in your typed words) speak much louder than your present posts.
51
@32
Evidently no one has pointed to this suicide "as evidence that there's something wrong with gay people"?
Someone is bearing false witness.
Evidently no one has pointed to this suicide "as evidence that there's something wrong with gay people"?
Someone is bearing false witness.
52
"Prayer and communion with our Creator does have the effect of deterring tragedies like this one. When children are taught about the love of Christ they can't help but wanting to imitate it and experience it in their lives."
So imitate it, give up all your possessions, and live a good life instead of trolling message boards.
So imitate it, give up all your possessions, and live a good life instead of trolling message boards.
53
The lack of attention to social life in regular schools is shocking to me. Plenty could be done to prevent bullying before it even starts. In Montessori schools, for instance, teaching "peace" is part of the curriculum from day 1, and teachers consider paying attention to the social interactions between students to be part of their jobs. Other alternative schools of the hippie variety take nonviolent communication very seriously, and even in a regular school, counselors can teach conflict resolution, check in with all kids regularly about bullying, cliques, etc. This is rare, though -- in most ordinary schools, adults pay little or no attention to the social dynamics of the kids at all. Teachers get no training in this and do not consider it to be part of their jobs.
I know a lot of homeschoolers (of the intellectual/hippie/punk-rock DIY variety, as well as a few Christians) and always the first thing anyone asks them when they hear the words "home school" is "But what about SOCIALIZING? You need school for socialization!!"
The easy response is: What's so great about socialization in school anyway? The weak get stomped, the rich get richer, there is intense peer pressure for a million stupid, stupid things, and kids kill themselves after being horrifically bullied. I'll pass, thanks. Homeschooled kids are among the nicest, most relaxed, confident and considerate people I've ever met.
I know a lot of homeschoolers (of the intellectual/hippie/punk-rock DIY variety, as well as a few Christians) and always the first thing anyone asks them when they hear the words "home school" is "But what about SOCIALIZING? You need school for socialization!!"
The easy response is: What's so great about socialization in school anyway? The weak get stomped, the rich get richer, there is intense peer pressure for a million stupid, stupid things, and kids kill themselves after being horrifically bullied. I'll pass, thanks. Homeschooled kids are among the nicest, most relaxed, confident and considerate people I've ever met.
54
@48
Who has pointed to this suicide "as evidence that there's something wrong with gay people"?
There is no evidence this kid was gay.
Who has pointed to this suicide "as evidence that there's something wrong with gay people"?
There is no evidence this kid was gay.
55
Oh, no! I was next in line after Loveschild, but it looks like she drank all the Kool-Aid before I got a chance! Damn!! Now I will have to exercise critical thinking skills, reason, and the ability to make observations about the world around me to guide me though life! This was a Charter School, right? Is there anything that states that this school didn’t have prayer as part of the curriculum? What would you say if there was Prayer, and this still had happened? Are you going to tell the family that the child didn’t pray hard enough, that God wasn’t listening? That the Bullies didn’t pray enough to open themselves up to God’s love?
56
@ 45 - You're right. As someone who has wasted a lot of time arguing with the creature that calls itself "loveschild", I can only agree with you. Whoever this person is, they are not interested in any sort of rational dialogue or conversation. They are only here to give lectures and tell us how we're awful people. So, ignore the comments. It really isn't worth it, and it only detracts from an interesting conversation we might actually be having. And to Kim in Portland - I'm not a Christian, and don't identify as one (we discussed this the other day) - but I have seen more compassion and basic decency from your posts than I have seen from ANYTHING that your detractor has posted. I don't know if that makes you more or less righteous, but I do think it makes you a lovely person. So thanks!
57
The problem with many Christians, who say they are all about Christlike love, is that they can only really love you if you are exactly like them.
58
#47 it was not long ago (in civilization terms) that muggers and pickpockets were simply regarded as part of the terrain, and if you got your eyes gouged out because your wallet wasn't fat enough, well you shouldn't have been promenading East End at that hour, right?
Oh, wait, what about rape throughout the twentieth century. Just a part of living in the big city? And that nice girl shouldn't have dressed so suggestively, or she was asking for it?
Bullying is not a part of civilized socialization. It wasn't when kids twice my size were kicking the snot out of me for my lunch money. It wasn't when the elites were chasing me down, trying to sideswipe me with the doors of their Beemers. It wasn't when the son of my mother's boss was threatening to get her fired unless I played his butt monkey.
Bullying is nothing short of harassment, assault, battery, and murder just as if it were being committed by adults. And so long as our society treats schoolyard bullying with this "boys will be boys" nonchalance, it *deserves* to see its kids' and teachers' brains splattered across the 6 'o clock news every time a victim snaps and sprees.
Do NOT trivialize problems you do not understand.
U.
Oh, wait, what about rape throughout the twentieth century. Just a part of living in the big city? And that nice girl shouldn't have dressed so suggestively, or she was asking for it?
Bullying is not a part of civilized socialization. It wasn't when kids twice my size were kicking the snot out of me for my lunch money. It wasn't when the elites were chasing me down, trying to sideswipe me with the doors of their Beemers. It wasn't when the son of my mother's boss was threatening to get her fired unless I played his butt monkey.
Bullying is nothing short of harassment, assault, battery, and murder just as if it were being committed by adults. And so long as our society treats schoolyard bullying with this "boys will be boys" nonchalance, it *deserves* to see its kids' and teachers' brains splattered across the 6 'o clock news every time a victim snaps and sprees.
Do NOT trivialize problems you do not understand.
U.
59
@54:
We don't know that anyone has pointed to THIS suicide "as evidence that there's something wrong with gay people". Dan did not say "this suicide". He said "suicides like this one". Meaning suicides by kids who have been victims of homophobia -- kids who are often, but not always, gay.
Take a look at those links posted @ 48 again and tell me what it is about Dan's post that you don't understand?
We don't know that anyone has pointed to THIS suicide "as evidence that there's something wrong with gay people". Dan did not say "this suicide". He said "suicides like this one". Meaning suicides by kids who have been victims of homophobia -- kids who are often, but not always, gay.
Take a look at those links posted @ 48 again and tell me what it is about Dan's post that you don't understand?
61
Jason @ 56,
Thank you. I assure you I have no righteousness of my own, I am in fact a poster child for grace. I am nothing but a wife and mom of two, with a fondness for playing her Fender Strat and enjoying an occasional Irish Whiskey served neat. All in all, I'm very boring.
Thank you. I assure you I have no righteousness of my own, I am in fact a poster child for grace. I am nothing but a wife and mom of two, with a fondness for playing her Fender Strat and enjoying an occasional Irish Whiskey served neat. All in all, I'm very boring.
63
""public schools are entitled to teach anything that is reasonably related to the goals of preparing students to become engaged and productive citizens in our democracy. Diversity is a hallmark of our nation.
It is increasingly evident that our diversity includes differences in sexual orientation."
I do hope someone quotes this in an ad, if there was any reservations about the true intentions behind the imposition of gay marriage this leaves no doubt about it."
That was a Loveschild post about refuting the NOM ad.
Does anyone else think that teaching diversity and appreciation of that diversity (including diversity of sexual orientation) would prove WAY more useful in curbing bullying then shoving the BS "Christian" ethic that Loveschild espouses down children's throats?
It is increasingly evident that our diversity includes differences in sexual orientation."
I do hope someone quotes this in an ad, if there was any reservations about the true intentions behind the imposition of gay marriage this leaves no doubt about it."
That was a Loveschild post about refuting the NOM ad.
Does anyone else think that teaching diversity and appreciation of that diversity (including diversity of sexual orientation) would prove WAY more useful in curbing bullying then shoving the BS "Christian" ethic that Loveschild espouses down children's throats?
64
Jen D @ 63,
Yes, that is why I support my childrens' school Gay Straight Alliance. This April 17 is their Day of Silence. It is amazing last year my kids school had 340 participants, not bad for 6-12 grade. Participation is completely voluntary, participants pin ribbons on their shirt. Before getting their pins GSA explains that the day is about becoming aware of the pain caused by bullying, and not just those of differing sexual orientation but for all students.
Now there is a campaign by conservative groups to get parents to pull their children out of school in protest http://www.illinoisfamily.org/doswalkout…. I fail to understand how pulling children out of school is going to help eliminate bullying. So, I am left with GSA and their sponser GLSEN as the reason for this planned walk out. Makes me angry. I sent them an email, but they just dismissed my concerns.
Yes, that is why I support my childrens' school Gay Straight Alliance. This April 17 is their Day of Silence. It is amazing last year my kids school had 340 participants, not bad for 6-12 grade. Participation is completely voluntary, participants pin ribbons on their shirt. Before getting their pins GSA explains that the day is about becoming aware of the pain caused by bullying, and not just those of differing sexual orientation but for all students.
Now there is a campaign by conservative groups to get parents to pull their children out of school in protest http://www.illinoisfamily.org/doswalkout…. I fail to understand how pulling children out of school is going to help eliminate bullying. So, I am left with GSA and their sponser GLSEN as the reason for this planned walk out. Makes me angry. I sent them an email, but they just dismissed my concerns.
65
Kim, that is truly terrible! I am also a mother (my daughter is only 16 months), but I worry constantly about the attitude a lot of other parents seem to take when it comes to things like bullying. It is sad enough when you hear parents pull out the old, "kids will be kids" trope, but when they actually encourage the bullying by creating an "us versus them" situation it really is ugly. How will children ever learn that it is wrong to treat another human being that way if the adults in their lives see nothing wrong with it?
And in answer to your earlier question about children in religious schools. I attended Catholic schools from pre-k until I was eighteen years old. I have never met a bigger bully then my grade school principle. She would actually encourage children to ostracize other kids as a means of punishing them. One child who was constantly picked on (his clothes were generally dirty and disheveled, he probably had an undiagnosed case of ADD) was actually being neglected and abused at home which was actually probably the reason for his behavior at school. I never saw one teacher (mostly nuns, all very religious) ever make an attempt to help him or reach him. I found out recently that he killed himself midway through his Sophomore year of high school.
And in answer to your earlier question about children in religious schools. I attended Catholic schools from pre-k until I was eighteen years old. I have never met a bigger bully then my grade school principle. She would actually encourage children to ostracize other kids as a means of punishing them. One child who was constantly picked on (his clothes were generally dirty and disheveled, he probably had an undiagnosed case of ADD) was actually being neglected and abused at home which was actually probably the reason for his behavior at school. I never saw one teacher (mostly nuns, all very religious) ever make an attempt to help him or reach him. I found out recently that he killed himself midway through his Sophomore year of high school.
66
#63, in researching a number of the "save the downtrodden" charities that operate in or from the US (usually they have a more specific target, Ethiopian children, kids growing up in ghettos, children in lock-up, children on parole whatever). I discovered that for a number of them, the extent of their efforts is limited to teaching a specific denomination of Christianity, on the understanding (backed solely by faith, not statistics) that doing so will help keep their new converts out of trouble.
I found it sickening, but heck not as sickening as the "feed the hungry" charities that do nothing more than put up billboards encouraging passers by to feed the hungry (by sending them more money to put up billboards). Brrrr.
I think diversity awareness and minority sensitivity education is a step in the right direction. Where I grew up (which, at the time was a suburbia as white Anglo Saxon as Greenland) we got such training concerning Black America and some heroes such as King and Carver, but oddly enough we weren't even encouraged to talk to our Mexican (probably undocumented) gardeners, which in retrospect seems an almost intentional oversight.
And I was instilled with homophobia by peers and adults alike before moving up here to San Francisco. Gays were assumed by all to equate to pederasty and lack of sexual self control. It wouldn't take me long to grasp the reality of the situation, but longer than I would like to admit.
#64, it sounds like the conservative groups are protesting the messenger and not the message. They're protesting the "Gay" in *Gay Straight Alliance*. I think if a Christian group were promoting plurality and diversity, and protesting violence based on discrimination (granted it'd have to be a liberal Christian group), they may not be so up and arms about it.
Then again, bullies tend to aim for kids who are different in some way since peers will be inclined to ally with the attacker than the victim, so the phenomenon does serve the underlying conservative virtue of conformity.
I wonder if we could convince these groups to celebrate one of their counter demonstrations (i.e. Truth Day, where they are encouraged to vocalize their homosexuality-is-a-rhetoric behavior) by dressing uniformly; white shirts, black ties, black or gray slacks for boys, EXACTLY knee-length skirts for girls black Sunday shoes. Y'know to help identify who is celebrating their day of oppress...er... unification.
More...
I found it sickening, but heck not as sickening as the "feed the hungry" charities that do nothing more than put up billboards encouraging passers by to feed the hungry (by sending them more money to put up billboards). Brrrr.
I think diversity awareness and minority sensitivity education is a step in the right direction. Where I grew up (which, at the time was a suburbia as white Anglo Saxon as Greenland) we got such training concerning Black America and some heroes such as King and Carver, but oddly enough we weren't even encouraged to talk to our Mexican (probably undocumented) gardeners, which in retrospect seems an almost intentional oversight.
And I was instilled with homophobia by peers and adults alike before moving up here to San Francisco. Gays were assumed by all to equate to pederasty and lack of sexual self control. It wouldn't take me long to grasp the reality of the situation, but longer than I would like to admit.
#64, it sounds like the conservative groups are protesting the messenger and not the message. They're protesting the "Gay" in *Gay Straight Alliance*. I think if a Christian group were promoting plurality and diversity, and protesting violence based on discrimination (granted it'd have to be a liberal Christian group), they may not be so up and arms about it.
Then again, bullies tend to aim for kids who are different in some way since peers will be inclined to ally with the attacker than the victim, so the phenomenon does serve the underlying conservative virtue of conformity.
I wonder if we could convince these groups to celebrate one of their counter demonstrations (i.e. Truth Day, where they are encouraged to vocalize their homosexuality-is-a-rhetoric behavior) by dressing uniformly; white shirts, black ties, black or gray slacks for boys, EXACTLY knee-length skirts for girls black Sunday shoes. Y'know to help identify who is celebrating their day of oppress...er... unification.
67
63-65
You girls prove the point the Mass mom made in the NOM ad.
Some parents don't want homosexual activists coming into the schools proselytizing their children in the secular humanist gospel of appreciating a diversity of sexual behaviors.
Is it really the job of the government to indoctrinate elementary school children that anal sex is "OK"? I think even Savage would suggest letting these kids grow up to make their own decision.
Some parents might take exception to having government employees who educate their children shoving the radical Left gospel that their beliefs are a "BS Christian ethic" down children's throats.
The NOM ad is right.
The HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA (whose name we dare not speak!) goes far beyond redefining marriage and will strip religious liberty.
You girls prove the point the Mass mom made in the NOM ad.
Some parents don't want homosexual activists coming into the schools proselytizing their children in the secular humanist gospel of appreciating a diversity of sexual behaviors.
Is it really the job of the government to indoctrinate elementary school children that anal sex is "OK"? I think even Savage would suggest letting these kids grow up to make their own decision.
Some parents might take exception to having government employees who educate their children shoving the radical Left gospel that their beliefs are a "BS Christian ethic" down children's throats.
The NOM ad is right.
The HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA (whose name we dare not speak!) goes far beyond redefining marriage and will strip religious liberty.
68
Oh, 67, you are so beyond hope. Let me ask you one question: Which sex education class currently being taught ANYWHERE in the United States teaches methods and positions?
We will await your answer....
We will await your answer....
71
@67: The argument you make can be used by racists who don't want their children learning that black people are equals too. In fact, that is the argument that they make! Any parent can say, "How dare you teach my child that such and such a group is equal to them when my personal belief system says they are not?" I (and Kim) are NOT advocating going into classrooms and telling kids "your religion is bogus or your parents are idiots", what I am advocating for is teaching children that it is NEVER ok to pick on and harass another child (which I thought was part of the Christian ethic, though not the BS "Christian" [note the use of quotation marks] ethic that Loveschild and those like her espouse).
Let's put it in this light: Your child is in a public school where the vast majority of students are non-Christian. These students have parents at home that teach their kids that all Christians are bad or bigots or against God or whatever and they bully your kid because she wears a cross necklace. Now let's say the school tries to create a program to teach the other children about diversity (including religious diversity) and how regardless of each students particular beliefs they need to practice tolerance (I'm not even asking for acceptance) and stop harassing your kid. On the day this program is scheduled most of the parents keep their kids home because they don't want the school teaching their kids that "filth" and you and your child should just stop "choosing" to be Christians if you don't want to be treated as outcasts. Do you think any of those students are going to get that they should stop harassing your child? Or, do you think those parents are at best tacitly condoning and at worst openly encouraging their children's bullying?
No school teaches their students the "ins and outs" (pardon the pun) of anal sex. I defy you to find me one. Heck, you'd have a tough time finding a school that went into graphic detail about vaginal sex.
More...
Let's put it in this light: Your child is in a public school where the vast majority of students are non-Christian. These students have parents at home that teach their kids that all Christians are bad or bigots or against God or whatever and they bully your kid because she wears a cross necklace. Now let's say the school tries to create a program to teach the other children about diversity (including religious diversity) and how regardless of each students particular beliefs they need to practice tolerance (I'm not even asking for acceptance) and stop harassing your kid. On the day this program is scheduled most of the parents keep their kids home because they don't want the school teaching their kids that "filth" and you and your child should just stop "choosing" to be Christians if you don't want to be treated as outcasts. Do you think any of those students are going to get that they should stop harassing your child? Or, do you think those parents are at best tacitly condoning and at worst openly encouraging their children's bullying?
No school teaches their students the "ins and outs" (pardon the pun) of anal sex. I defy you to find me one. Heck, you'd have a tough time finding a school that went into graphic detail about vaginal sex.
72
71
Then you are agreeing with what the Mass mom in the ad states.
The question is not if you approve of what she teaches her kids or if it is right.
She doesn't want to teach other kids in public school her religious values, but she doesn't want her kids taught in public school that her and their religious values are wrong.
That is what is happening.
The ad is accurate.
Then you are agreeing with what the Mass mom in the ad states.
The question is not if you approve of what she teaches her kids or if it is right.
She doesn't want to teach other kids in public school her religious values, but she doesn't want her kids taught in public school that her and their religious values are wrong.
That is what is happening.
The ad is accurate.
73
@72: No, it's really not. Kids are being taught that they HAVE to respect other people. That is what is being taught. Unfortunately, there are quite a few "Christians" and others out there who don't think this applies to their children when it comes to people that they think are "bad".
74
73
They are not being taught to 'respect other people'.
They are being taught they must accept and embrace the behavior choices of other people.
If they express disapproval of those behavior choices, or the relationships that seek to validate those behavior choices, they are labeled haters and bigots.
They are not being taught to 'respect other people'.
They are being taught they must accept and embrace the behavior choices of other people.
If they express disapproval of those behavior choices, or the relationships that seek to validate those behavior choices, they are labeled haters and bigots.
75
@ 74, bullying is a valid way to express disapproval? Okay, we know EXACTLY where you stand. No go to hell.
77
@74: Without getting into the whole "choice, not a choice" debate, here's a simple way to think about it. You choose to be a Christian. That's a behavior. Can my kid bully your kids if she "disapproves" of their choices. If the majority of kids in your child's school thinks he's making bad life choices and harass or ostracize him should the school actively try to curb this behavior or should they let it continue to respect the other children's (and their parents') opinion?
78
Mass Dad @ 74,
I showed your comment to my daughter, who is 13 years old, straight, and an active practicing Christian.
She wondered if you had ever participated in the "Day of Silence", because your comment indicates you are woefully misinformed. Her words, not mine.
She said to tell you that the objective is to teach tolerance, and that bullying for any reason is wrong. She said to tell you that she has never been told that she has to embrace homosexuality or any of the multiple faiths her fellow students practice at her International School. She wanted you to know that they merely talk about their differences, and that her participation is voluntary. She wanted you to know that there is no pressure to particpate or pick up a ribbon. After the opening discussion those who choose to become quiet, all 340 of them last year.
She announced that she plans to particpate this year.
These words best sum up her reasons:
"In truth I tell you, in so far as you failed to do it for the least of these, however insignificant, you failed to do it for me."
Matthew 25: 45
You're welcome to you opinion, Mass Dad. We, my daughter and I, are not here to argue with you.
I showed your comment to my daughter, who is 13 years old, straight, and an active practicing Christian.
She wondered if you had ever participated in the "Day of Silence", because your comment indicates you are woefully misinformed. Her words, not mine.
She said to tell you that the objective is to teach tolerance, and that bullying for any reason is wrong. She said to tell you that she has never been told that she has to embrace homosexuality or any of the multiple faiths her fellow students practice at her International School. She wanted you to know that they merely talk about their differences, and that her participation is voluntary. She wanted you to know that there is no pressure to particpate or pick up a ribbon. After the opening discussion those who choose to become quiet, all 340 of them last year.
She announced that she plans to particpate this year.
These words best sum up her reasons:
"In truth I tell you, in so far as you failed to do it for the least of these, however insignificant, you failed to do it for me."
Matthew 25: 45
You're welcome to you opinion, Mass Dad. We, my daughter and I, are not here to argue with you.
81
77
Bullying is wrong in all cases.
You seem to be (erroneously) equating teaching the nuclear family with bullying.
They are separate issues.
Bullying is wrong in all cases.
You seem to be (erroneously) equating teaching the nuclear family with bullying.
They are separate issues.
82
@ 81, just like you're erroneously equating acceptance of gays with embracing them. No one can make you embrace GBLT people, but you will have to accept that they exist and have just as much right to live their lives as you live yours. That does not intrude upon your values at all.
Bullying is the issue here. You're the one that brought up the "oh noes! I can't teach my values anymore!" sob story in this context.
Bullying is the issue here. You're the one that brought up the "oh noes! I can't teach my values anymore!" sob story in this context.
83
@ 78 - Kim, your post brought tears to my eyes. Your daughter sounds like a fantastic young lady - only natural, as she is your daughter, and you do indeed seem to be a wonderful human being (just judging by your Slog posts - lol!).
You ladies represent the future, and the future is a better place than here. The haters are slowly dying out, as befits their dinosaur nature. They don't understand that it's only fear that drives them to do and say the things they do. The opposite of fear is understanding - and the younger generation has (largely) come equipped with that.
Like the man said: "Every day, in every way, it's getting better and better.."
You ladies represent the future, and the future is a better place than here. The haters are slowly dying out, as befits their dinosaur nature. They don't understand that it's only fear that drives them to do and say the things they do. The opposite of fear is understanding - and the younger generation has (largely) come equipped with that.
Like the man said: "Every day, in every way, it's getting better and better.."
84
The thing is, contemporary Christian values are being taught in schools.
If there is a debate about alternative family models being taught next to the heterosexual nuclear family, that suggests that the HNF is presently getting taught. Certainly kids are taught that:
~ You have to get married (i.e. get permission by Church and State) in order to love a peer and to have children.
~ Only two people can be in love with each other at a time. (Ruling out polyamory)
~ Love is supposed to be forever, or until death takes one.
These are not only not universal mores, but they fail statistically in this country.
And none of this is even breaching into the Abstinence Only programs, many of which include a lot of scriptural dogma, not to mention inaccurate data concerning STDs and birth control, and fallacious gender stereotypes, that are being passed off as normal curricula in public schools.
And this is not even crossing into the attempts, some successful, to bring intelligent design theory into biological science departments, what is nothing less than Abrahamic creation mythology. I wonder if the Discovery Institute and their ilk would start teaching geocentricism if they thought they could get away with it without ridicule.
For the last eight plus years, the conservative Christian groups have had a stranglehold on our education system, and they say they're being victimized when we want purge the system of their propaganda and teach a more neutral model of society, or one that better reflects the reality.
U.
If there is a debate about alternative family models being taught next to the heterosexual nuclear family, that suggests that the HNF is presently getting taught. Certainly kids are taught that:
~ You have to get married (i.e. get permission by Church and State) in order to love a peer and to have children.
~ Only two people can be in love with each other at a time. (Ruling out polyamory)
~ Love is supposed to be forever, or until death takes one.
These are not only not universal mores, but they fail statistically in this country.
And none of this is even breaching into the Abstinence Only programs, many of which include a lot of scriptural dogma, not to mention inaccurate data concerning STDs and birth control, and fallacious gender stereotypes, that are being passed off as normal curricula in public schools.
And this is not even crossing into the attempts, some successful, to bring intelligent design theory into biological science departments, what is nothing less than Abrahamic creation mythology. I wonder if the Discovery Institute and their ilk would start teaching geocentricism if they thought they could get away with it without ridicule.
For the last eight plus years, the conservative Christian groups have had a stranglehold on our education system, and they say they're being victimized when we want purge the system of their propaganda and teach a more neutral model of society, or one that better reflects the reality.
U.
86
@81: Actually, teaching the "nuclear family" as you put it doesn't exclude homosexuals since the definition of "nuclear family" is simply two parents and a child or children (gender has no part of the definition). It's simply a phrase used to distinguish parent/child living together from "extended families" that include grandparents, cousins, etc. Teaching the "nuclear family" as the be all and end all family model is exclusionary to those with other family situations (single parents, raised by grandparents, group homes, etc), but again, not necessarily to homosexuals or their children.
Also, my question wasn't whether bullying was wrong, it was whether it would be ok for a school system to neglect to stop children who are being harassed by providing some sort of tolerance teaching intervention even if certain parents disagreed with said tolerance and saw no problem "showing they disapproved" of your kids being Christian.
Also, my question wasn't whether bullying was wrong, it was whether it would be ok for a school system to neglect to stop children who are being harassed by providing some sort of tolerance teaching intervention even if certain parents disagreed with said tolerance and saw no problem "showing they disapproved" of your kids being Christian.
88
JenD,
Thanks for sharing. I appreciate hearing about your school experience. I am so sorry about your classmate.
Thanks for sharing. I appreciate hearing about your school experience. I am so sorry about your classmate.
89
Looking at the school's web-site, it appears that this was NOT a religious school, but rather one dedicated to academic excellence and college prepartion. For example, they had extended school hours and Saturday morning classes. This is just a FYI for those who were speculating.
Their philosophy is: "We believe that all students can attain and demonstrate high levels of personal leadership, as evidenced in their vision of self and others, integrity of values, and compassion toward oneself and others." and emphasize that "Graduates will be academically prepared to attend a college or university of their choice. They will embody three cardinal principles of leadership: vision, integrity, and compassion."
Ironic, huh?
Their philosophy is: "We believe that all students can attain and demonstrate high levels of personal leadership, as evidenced in their vision of self and others, integrity of values, and compassion toward oneself and others." and emphasize that "Graduates will be academically prepared to attend a college or university of their choice. They will embody three cardinal principles of leadership: vision, integrity, and compassion."
Ironic, huh?
90
@53-- "...in most ordinary schools, adults pay little or no attention to the social dynamics of the kids at all."
In my own experience, public school teachers are very aware of who's at the top and bottom of the student pecking order. At best, the lazy teachers choose to do nothing about it, partially because it enforces a social hierarchy that makes the classroom easier to manage. It's similar to prison wardens who ignore prison violence--if the inmates are busy turning on each other they're less likely to mobilize for better prison conditions. At worst, the sadistic teachers exploit the pecking order, making the unpopular kids their scapegoats, even laughing when other students bully those kids. I always remember the latter when teaching is lauded as a noble profession.
I remember right after the Columbine shooting, when various teachers still hanging around the chaotic school grounds were being interviewed by the media. All the teachers identified Klebold and Harris as being victims of constant bullying, including homophobic insults. Not a single one of those teachers mentioned trying to stop the bullying.
In my own experience, public school teachers are very aware of who's at the top and bottom of the student pecking order. At best, the lazy teachers choose to do nothing about it, partially because it enforces a social hierarchy that makes the classroom easier to manage. It's similar to prison wardens who ignore prison violence--if the inmates are busy turning on each other they're less likely to mobilize for better prison conditions. At worst, the sadistic teachers exploit the pecking order, making the unpopular kids their scapegoats, even laughing when other students bully those kids. I always remember the latter when teaching is lauded as a noble profession.
I remember right after the Columbine shooting, when various teachers still hanging around the chaotic school grounds were being interviewed by the media. All the teachers identified Klebold and Harris as being victims of constant bullying, including homophobic insults. Not a single one of those teachers mentioned trying to stop the bullying.
91
re: Columbine, the letterman referring to Eric and Dylan as the "Trenchcoat Homosexual Mafia" before the news cameras could cut away from him was, as The Church Lady would put it, *just, extra special*.
92
Bullying is experienced differently by everyone. In general, kid's are discovering who they are on a daily basis and learn new things quickly, which means that threatening situations have the potential to rapidly change personality and behavior. For some, bullying has the potential to permenantly weaken a perhaps already fragile self respect, and limit the ability to form new relationships and adapt to social situations.
For the most part, the supervisory stance in schools is to let the chips fall where they may, with some kids emerging unscathed from bullying experiences, and others never recovering.
Without the ability or the willingness to distinguish between the impact bullying has on different kids, its certain a given number will be bear its scars for the rest of their lives.
Remaining institutionally blind to it is not unlike the physicians who denied that surgical infections were caused by unsanitary conditions, and refused to take reasonable measures. A certain level of mortality was, in effect, tolerable to them.
How much longer will bullying's consequences be tolerable to us?
For the most part, the supervisory stance in schools is to let the chips fall where they may, with some kids emerging unscathed from bullying experiences, and others never recovering.
Without the ability or the willingness to distinguish between the impact bullying has on different kids, its certain a given number will be bear its scars for the rest of their lives.
Remaining institutionally blind to it is not unlike the physicians who denied that surgical infections were caused by unsanitary conditions, and refused to take reasonable measures. A certain level of mortality was, in effect, tolerable to them.
How much longer will bullying's consequences be tolerable to us?
93
The FBI has a whole sub-department that focuses on creating awareness as to the dangers of allowing bullying to continue since they came to the conclusion during their investigations that bullying is the #1 contributing factor to school homicides. (I'm not sure if they investigated suicides as well, but there is likely a similar correlation).
Regardless, ignorance shouldn't any longer be an issue. It's a matter of willingness to affect change, or not.l
Regardless, ignorance shouldn't any longer be an issue. It's a matter of willingness to affect change, or not.l
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