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News & ArtsMonday, April 6, 2009
Religion This Ought to Alleviate the Fears of the Paranoid Christian Right
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 10:40 AM
I can't bring myself to read the article. Do they blame the aligned-with-the-GOP, politicized, corrupt and co-opted Christian "movement" for the "The Decline and Fall of Christian America"? And does this mean no more pandering "Historical Jesus" cover stories?
1
"Then came the point he could not get out of his mind: while the unaffiliated have historically been concentrated in the Pacific Northwest, the report said, "this pattern has now changed, and the Northeast emerged in 2008 as the new stronghold of the religiously unidentified." As Mohler saw it, the historic foundation of America's religious culture was cracking."
Yay! Seattle broke religion!!!
Yay! Seattle broke religion!!!
2
Let's briefly get a little Old Testament...
Let's imagine Seattle was chosen as the 21st century Sodom and God planned to destroy Seattle unless some 21st century Abraham could find 10 "righteous" people.
By "righteous" I do not mean Christian. Dan points out on a regular basis that the two are not equivalent terms.
You think Seattle might be spared God's wrath?
I'm guessing Abraham would maybe turn up three people and they'd all be homeless or somehow overlooked otherwise.
Let's imagine Seattle was chosen as the 21st century Sodom and God planned to destroy Seattle unless some 21st century Abraham could find 10 "righteous" people.
By "righteous" I do not mean Christian. Dan points out on a regular basis that the two are not equivalent terms.
You think Seattle might be spared God's wrath?
I'm guessing Abraham would maybe turn up three people and they'd all be homeless or somehow overlooked otherwise.
3
Dan, how could you be so cruel. Jesus is pandering? If you knew what was good for you, you would soundly reject your lifestyle, come to the lord, and marry a converted lesbian in a loveless sexless marriage which will fill you with sorry and regret, just like the Lord wanted.
Your choosing a deviant lifestyle of having a homo life partner with an adopted child is both evidence of your selfishness and child abuse. That you would inflict your bias and trauma onto this poor innocent kid shows just how selfish and fucked up your morals are.
Take Matthew 21:19: And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. It shows that you should be providing a woman with your newly-hetero sperm through cock and vagina intercourse to get a new spawn...or else you'll be damned to wither just like the fig tree in the fable.
Think about it.
Your choosing a deviant lifestyle of having a homo life partner with an adopted child is both evidence of your selfishness and child abuse. That you would inflict your bias and trauma onto this poor innocent kid shows just how selfish and fucked up your morals are.
Take Matthew 21:19: And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. It shows that you should be providing a woman with your newly-hetero sperm through cock and vagina intercourse to get a new spawn...or else you'll be damned to wither just like the fig tree in the fable.
Think about it.
4
Dan,
It's funny, I was just talking to friend and neighbor yesterday about the decline of religion in America and the corresponding increase in liberalism or individual rights initiatives ie. gay marriage etc.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/article…
Not sure what's going to happen. I don't agree that the decline in religion (membership or observance) is necessarily a good thing. The article I referenced will most certainly spur a debate but that's the point.
It's funny, I was just talking to friend and neighbor yesterday about the decline of religion in America and the corresponding increase in liberalism or individual rights initiatives ie. gay marriage etc.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/article…
Not sure what's going to happen. I don't agree that the decline in religion (membership or observance) is necessarily a good thing. The article I referenced will most certainly spur a debate but that's the point.
5
"The Decline and Fall..."
I think the word "Rise" would have made a funny looking cross so they went down the redundancy path with this title.
I think the word "Rise" would have made a funny looking cross so they went down the redundancy path with this title.
6
@2: I'm sorry, what does an old storybook have to do with Seattle?
But to play along, having been raised there and maintaining close ties to Seattle, I can tell you that there are many spiritually righteous people there. I'm sorry that you are too narrow-sighted to have met them.
But to play along, having been raised there and maintaining close ties to Seattle, I can tell you that there are many spiritually righteous people there. I'm sorry that you are too narrow-sighted to have met them.
9
Um...I can't tell if #3 is joking or not.
And Dan, the article isn't bad. It actually made my atheist-self a little more hopeful for the future.
And Dan, the article isn't bad. It actually made my atheist-self a little more hopeful for the future.
10
@4: I'd argue that the decline of religion is a great thing. There's been a lot of death caused in the name of religion. If we lost religion and had to be personally responsible for nurturing our spirituality, perhaps people might actually think for themselves as opposed to blindly following the dogmas of religion.
12
@2--that's funny, the huge quake was in ITALY today, hmm.
Almost enough to make me a Believer. Almost.
Almost enough to make me a Believer. Almost.
13
I thought the article was great, and like @9, my atheist-self felt a bit happier.
Unfortunately, the article also predicts that it's mainly the moderate christians who are dropping away, not the fundies and evangelicals. So the extreme loony christians are just getting more concentrated.
Unfortunately, the article also predicts that it's mainly the moderate christians who are dropping away, not the fundies and evangelicals. So the extreme loony christians are just getting more concentrated.
14
Skip the article, it has no "news" to speak of and the writer comes across as increasingly obnoxious.
15
http://video.newsweek.com/#?t=1562737888…
I guess here in the northwest I don't even need to follow that link with a witty comment to get some laughs.
Now I want to go down and have my picture taken with Jesus.
I guess here in the northwest I don't even need to follow that link with a witty comment to get some laughs.
Now I want to go down and have my picture taken with Jesus.
16
Hard to have a "decline and fall" when self-identified Xtians go from 86% to 76% of a population and 1 in 3 is of an evangelical stripe. That's still an overwhelming majority.
17
It's the year 2009 for crying out loud. Mankind should be past believing in mythical, magical beings who live in the sky.
18
@13,
The loonies tend to be poorer, so it's still good news that the believers with money are dropping away. Money = power
The loonies tend to be poorer, so it's still good news that the believers with money are dropping away. Money = power
19
@ #4 I think the decline of religious influnce is a good thing for several reasons. Democracy works better without a prop of social control such as religion. It's decline in influnce can lead to people thinking for themselves rather than having an ancient book of myths tell them how to think.
I believe the powers that be realize what a valuable tool religin is to control people and that they will push it on us more through the media as the economic crisis deepens.
Anyway that Newsweek cover is one of the most optimistic headlines I have read in a long time. There is absolutely nothing to fear in religion being on the decline. Humanity is evolving.
I believe the powers that be realize what a valuable tool religin is to control people and that they will push it on us more through the media as the economic crisis deepens.
Anyway that Newsweek cover is one of the most optimistic headlines I have read in a long time. There is absolutely nothing to fear in religion being on the decline. Humanity is evolving.
21
So long as us "nonbelievers" of all stripes still make up only 9-16% of the population as a whole, I'm going to have to disagree with that headline and suggest that we are still, in fact, a very religious, and primarily very christian, America.
Only the muslim theocracies rival the US in terms of anti-evolution babble and anti-gay violence. We don't exactly need to be getting proud of our religious moderation just yet, you know?
Only the muslim theocracies rival the US in terms of anti-evolution babble and anti-gay violence. We don't exactly need to be getting proud of our religious moderation just yet, you know?
22
I think the keeper quote from the article is this:
"Which is precisely what most troubles Mohler. "The post-Christian narrative is radically different; it offers spirituality, however defined, without binding authority," he told me. "It is based on an understanding of history that presumes a less tolerant past and a more tolerant future, with the present as an important transitional step." The present, in this sense, is less about the death of God and more about the birth of many gods. The rising numbers of religiously unaffiliated Americans are people more apt to call themselves "spiritual" rather than "religious." (In the new NEWSWEEK Poll, 30 percent describe themselves this way, up from 24 percent in 2005.)"
Yep - those wacky kids don't like that "binding authority." What's wrong with them?
"Which is precisely what most troubles Mohler. "The post-Christian narrative is radically different; it offers spirituality, however defined, without binding authority," he told me. "It is based on an understanding of history that presumes a less tolerant past and a more tolerant future, with the present as an important transitional step." The present, in this sense, is less about the death of God and more about the birth of many gods. The rising numbers of religiously unaffiliated Americans are people more apt to call themselves "spiritual" rather than "religious." (In the new NEWSWEEK Poll, 30 percent describe themselves this way, up from 24 percent in 2005.)"
Yep - those wacky kids don't like that "binding authority." What's wrong with them?
24
Well, well, it's about time. Let's do what we can to keep the movement toward a new era of enlightenment going. Enough with these ridiculous superstitions and myths already.
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@ #20 We have not yet seen this happen because up until now religion has had so much influnce. Democracy means that people will control themselves. Less social control means more freedom and a better democracy. I'll take free society over a controlled society anyday.
People do not need the fear of eternal damnation or a promise of heaven in order to be decent responsible citizens.
People do not need the fear of eternal damnation or a promise of heaven in order to be decent responsible citizens.
27
I love that the headline is in the shape of a cross. Radical Christians really need the visual aid to bolster their already rampant persecution complex. Nobody is taking away their rights or using incendiary rhetoric to make claims about how they want to destroy America and children and puppies and finally THE WORLD, but they continue to encourage the myth that they are a downtrodden and mercilessly tortured group.
Addendum: The use of "Christian" in the above refers to those radicals on the FAR RIGHT who espouse a "with us or against us" doomsday approach to both religion and their dealings with the real world. As a Christian myself I am fully aware that not every Christian falls into this category and I would never implicate an entire group based on their nuttiest members.
Addendum: The use of "Christian" in the above refers to those radicals on the FAR RIGHT who espouse a "with us or against us" doomsday approach to both religion and their dealings with the real world. As a Christian myself I am fully aware that not every Christian falls into this category and I would never implicate an entire group based on their nuttiest members.
28
With more and more access to the internet, science, and education this is no surprise.
But with the fundies keeping up and increasing home-schooling, cutting access to TV and the internet for their kids, etc. I can easily see how they will just become more and more crazy. It is already starting with the evangelicals who don't even *kiss* until marriage. That stikes false to even the more strict christian faiths. And with the rising influence of the mormons, regular christians are having to decide who to side with....
Looks like us Atheists are too bad after all, huh! :p
But with the fundies keeping up and increasing home-schooling, cutting access to TV and the internet for their kids, etc. I can easily see how they will just become more and more crazy. It is already starting with the evangelicals who don't even *kiss* until marriage. That stikes false to even the more strict christian faiths. And with the rising influence of the mormons, regular christians are having to decide who to side with....
Looks like us Atheists are too bad after all, huh! :p
29
Newsweek is such a boring windsock. Five years ago they were breathlessly explaining how religion was the NEW force dominating politics and society. Their MO is to take an existing trend and extrapolate some world changing implication from it. "WHY AMERICA WILL SOON BE 215% UNRELIGIOUS!!! OMFGBBUYTHISMAGAZINEPLEASE!!!"
30
Godly Christian patriots will be back to stop the march towards pro-homosexual totalitarian socialism.
Count on it!
Conservatives will sweep into power in Congress in 2010, and Sarah Palin will win the presidency in a record landslide in 2012. Hopefully then the liberal leftist treasonous traitors will be tried and jailed so they can never do this kind of damage to America again.
Count on it!
Conservatives will sweep into power in Congress in 2010, and Sarah Palin will win the presidency in a record landslide in 2012. Hopefully then the liberal leftist treasonous traitors will be tried and jailed so they can never do this kind of damage to America again.
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@30: You're back! :)
Now, can you get Bailo to post using his regular handle? I see him posting an awful lot but he never uses his regular name.
Now, can you get Bailo to post using his regular handle? I see him posting an awful lot but he never uses his regular name.
33
@20: ""Democracy works better without a prop of social control such as religion. Where?"
Europe. This has been another edition of SATSQ.
Europe. This has been another edition of SATSQ.
34
Oh my God, I hope The Minions of Jesus do not lose their strangle hold on the morals of America. As a devout Christian, I have banged more pasty girls in the bum because they want to be a “virgin” on their wedding day. As a bonus, I never got one of them pregnant. God has a plan, let’s stick to it.
38
I think the magazines in the background are more telling about the fall of society than anything in the article.
39
#13- There's a term for that, when the moderates are peeled away and only the far out remain. It's called a death spiral. It sometimes happens to political parties and is happening to the Republicans right now. As moderate voices leave, the hardliners get ever more hardline in their absence, further alienating the mainstream and pushing more people away from them. Christianity's future may ultimately be much like its past- relegation to fringe status, thought of with suspicion and even regarded as a dangerous cult. Or they may turn themselves around. Or- and I think this is most likely- they will have cycles and death spiral and rebirth with an overall downward trend.
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