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News & ArtsThursday, April 2, 2009
Politics American Has Been On the Road to Fascism...
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 8:48 AM
...since 1916, which was before... um... anyone had really heard of fascism.
Glenn Beck is absolutely insane—which doesn't mean he won't succeed in getting some nut to take a shot at Barack Obama, which seems to be Glenn's aim here. At what point does the Secret Service pay a visit to Fox News HQ? (A visit that will, of course, be held up as evidence of FASCISM!) And you gotta love how France is held up as an example of hell on earth. France, with its health care for all, high-speed rail linking up its major cities, well-educated population, political leaders with the wisdom to stay the hell out of Iraq (I'm sure their sex-advice columnists were just as wise), good food, walkable cities, social safety nets—yeah, save us from becoming like France, Glenn, because America is the greatest country on earth because people here lose their health insurance when they lose their jobs.
Via Think Progress.
1
France isn't a fascist or leftist state, it's a center-right nation and the most powerful member of the IDU. Not just a "participant" or a "de facto member", but an actual full-fledged "it's your turn to host the christmas party" member.
Making the mistake of assuming France as a member of the EU and part of the Eurozone would hold the same policies as listed in the EU charter is inexcusable for a RABID NATIONALISTIC RIGHTIST like Beck.
Making the mistake of assuming France as a member of the EU and part of the Eurozone would hold the same policies as listed in the EU charter is inexcusable for a RABID NATIONALISTIC RIGHTIST like Beck.
2
It's pretty obvious that he doesn't even know the definition of the word "fascism," because if he did, he'd know that George Bush's "imperial presidency" was a lot closer to fascism than anything that's happening right now.
This guy's a nut case.whether he's a dangerous nut case remains to be seen.
This guy's a nut case.whether he's a dangerous nut case remains to be seen.
3
They don't need sex-advice columnists in France, Dan. They actually learn about sex in health class.
4
What a vague, sloppy inarticulate mess. Was he trying to create some drama wit hall of that nonsense with the lights and the projector? I always thought he was a twerp. Now he's just a dangerous twerp.
5
"...since 1916, which was before... um... anyone had really heard of fascism."
So because we hadn't heard of fascism that means it can't exist? So even though we had no concept of evolution 2000 years ago does that mean it wasn't possible?
The fractional reserve system that prints our money was started after the panic of 1907 and then reached and got an amazing power grab in the 30's to completely take over our money supply, this FIAT (fake) currency has been completely fascist since it's beginning. However I doubt Beck is talking about any of this, and would no sooner call out Obama's birth certificate before talking about the most corrupt institution in this country, the federal reserve.
So because we hadn't heard of fascism that means it can't exist? So even though we had no concept of evolution 2000 years ago does that mean it wasn't possible?
The fractional reserve system that prints our money was started after the panic of 1907 and then reached and got an amazing power grab in the 30's to completely take over our money supply, this FIAT (fake) currency has been completely fascist since it's beginning. However I doubt Beck is talking about any of this, and would no sooner call out Obama's birth certificate before talking about the most corrupt institution in this country, the federal reserve.
6
Whatever problems we have with the Fed, at least they haven't inextricably tied the value of American currency to some Magic Shiny Metal like the Ron Paul fanboys would have us do.
7
Still. France does have its own host of problems. It is a hard place to be if you are non-white. Even if you are well-educated, it is a serious climb to escape most service jobs. Though that is more of a cultural issue and the French aren't always very comfortable with addressing their own prejudices.
Still, it is nice to know if you become ill, you can get a doctor in the middle of the night to come to your home AND there isn't the fret afterward about how the bill will be paid.
Still, it is nice to know if you become ill, you can get a doctor in the middle of the night to come to your home AND there isn't the fret afterward about how the bill will be paid.
8
Good Morning Mr. Savage,
It would be nice if you learn to do some more research into the current state of France than simply regurgitating tired liberal tropes.
France is a hotbed of social riots and unrest, which make any riots you may have lived through a walk in the park
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_riot…
It would be nice if you learn to do some more research into the current state of France than simply regurgitating tired liberal tropes.
France is a hotbed of social riots and unrest, which make any riots you may have lived through a walk in the park
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_riot…
9
The French are also completely dependent on the Camorra to "dispose of" their nuclear waste. Most of it has wound up off the coast of Somalia, Ethiopia, and other poor African countries that can't do much about it.
11
Chris, Fiat currency is not fake currency. A dollar is worth something because we all agree it is. We do work for dollars, and we exchange them for real stuff. How is that fake?
12
I feel the Spartans were the first fascists.
Even if they weren't, you can be "on the road" do something before that thing has been created. Several researchers put us on the road to evolutionary theory before Darwin, for example.
Also, Glenn Beck is not very interesting.
Even if they weren't, you can be "on the road" do something before that thing has been created. Several researchers put us on the road to evolutionary theory before Darwin, for example.
Also, Glenn Beck is not very interesting.
13
"A dollar is worth something because we all agree it is. We do work for dollars, and we exchange them for real stuff."
I agree with that, but when there's inflation and interest charged on the creation of that money, the agreed upon value of that money has been fluctuating downwards for a very, very long time. When you take a job for $75,000 you find that a year later, you're making less than you were when you signed on. Then the company you're working for realizes that the contracts they hold are worth less than when they signed them, and so on.
It's wrong to assume that gold's value wouldn't fluctuate, but at least it can't be created on a printing press at the whim of some greedy bastard. When they create money, they're not adding value to anything, they're just stealing money from everyone by devaluing what everyone has.
No, it's not Obama's fault, it's our longstanding financial system's fault. And it has nothing to do with fascism or the type of government we have. It's it's own entirely separate problem that has little to do with whatever gibberish Glenn Beck is spouting at any given moment.
I agree with that, but when there's inflation and interest charged on the creation of that money, the agreed upon value of that money has been fluctuating downwards for a very, very long time. When you take a job for $75,000 you find that a year later, you're making less than you were when you signed on. Then the company you're working for realizes that the contracts they hold are worth less than when they signed them, and so on.
It's wrong to assume that gold's value wouldn't fluctuate, but at least it can't be created on a printing press at the whim of some greedy bastard. When they create money, they're not adding value to anything, they're just stealing money from everyone by devaluing what everyone has.
No, it's not Obama's fault, it's our longstanding financial system's fault. And it has nothing to do with fascism or the type of government we have. It's it's own entirely separate problem that has little to do with whatever gibberish Glenn Beck is spouting at any given moment.
14
Conservative hellhole? No. Liberal paradise? No. Their as fucked up as the rest of us. No more, no less.
I still say he's just a chubby crybaby that doesn't deserve all this attention. I mean, did you see him crying? What a pussy.
I still say he's just a chubby crybaby that doesn't deserve all this attention. I mean, did you see him crying? What a pussy.
15
@13 Sure you minimize inflation. Though those deflationary spirals are a bit of a bitch. Go learn something about the economies of the 19th century.
Actually being able to have a monetary policy is not a bad thing and a reasonable amount of inflation is a good thing as it encourages the productive use of money.
Actually being able to have a monetary policy is not a bad thing and a reasonable amount of inflation is a good thing as it encourages the productive use of money.
17
If we've been 'on the road to fascism' for 90 years, when the hell are we gonna get there? What's taking so long?!?
18
I love Glenn Beck. It's a beautiful thing to watch the rats race around the bottom of the barrel. Beck, Rush, Malkin, Newt, McCain, the astonishingly dumb Michele Bachmann ...they've been driven batshit looney. Finally.
19
To the asswipe @10: If you've got something substantive to say, say it. If not, you're an even bigger jackass than the guy whose post you seem to have a problem with.
22
"A reasonable amount of inflation." Sure it can be good because it keeps money moving around, but when money itself becomes less valuable in this country than simply moving money around, we start to have a problem. And nowadays you're lucky if your savings account keeps you ahead of inflation.
Why don't YOU 'go learn something' about credit default swaps and the fucking market that took away my parents' retirement, all because it kept some banker's money moving around. That fluctuation isn't working well for them. If only they had the authority to print money like some people do, they could just borrow the difference from your wallet. Dick.
Why don't YOU 'go learn something' about credit default swaps and the fucking market that took away my parents' retirement, all because it kept some banker's money moving around. That fluctuation isn't working well for them. If only they had the authority to print money like some people do, they could just borrow the difference from your wallet. Dick.
24
Sgiffy, you're a good person and have been around here for a while, but come on - this isn't high school. If you have to resort to name-calling, you're better off just keeping your trap shut.
25
@22, Since we are in(or probably just getting out of) a deflationary period even at less than a percent interest your still doing better than 'inflation'. The idea is that simply storing money should roughly keep pace or get you small gains. If you want growth you have to take some risk. No amount of specie currency is going to change that unless you somehow think you should get a great return simply for filling out a deposit slip.
In other words if you had put 100 bucks in a bank in 1950 you would at least have the equivalent amount in real dollars and probably a bit more. That's how its supposed to work.
As for your parents. If they are retired or near to it they are morons for having too much in stocks. These sort of things happen every now and then and that's why as you get closer to retirement you shift to lower risk. If they are still a ways out then they will be just fine. We have had 6 declines like this since I think 1920. In one case we had the Great Depression and in 4 we recovered the entirety of the lose in 18 months.
Not to mention that downturns are not unique to fiat systems and in fact such a system tends to make them less severe. In the last 70 years we have had zero depressions. During the 1800's we had a few culminating in the big one in the 30's. Had the Fed not been hamstrung by a partial gold standard(and some other restrictions) it probably could have been avoided. Hell had we not had a Fed 4 months ago your parents retirement would likely involve a soup line.
In other words if you had put 100 bucks in a bank in 1950 you would at least have the equivalent amount in real dollars and probably a bit more. That's how its supposed to work.
As for your parents. If they are retired or near to it they are morons for having too much in stocks. These sort of things happen every now and then and that's why as you get closer to retirement you shift to lower risk. If they are still a ways out then they will be just fine. We have had 6 declines like this since I think 1920. In one case we had the Great Depression and in 4 we recovered the entirety of the lose in 18 months.
Not to mention that downturns are not unique to fiat systems and in fact such a system tends to make them less severe. In the last 70 years we have had zero depressions. During the 1800's we had a few culminating in the big one in the 30's. Had the Fed not been hamstrung by a partial gold standard(and some other restrictions) it probably could have been avoided. Hell had we not had a Fed 4 months ago your parents retirement would likely involve a soup line.
27
@19 " To the asswipe @10: If you've got something substantive to say, say it. If not, you're an even bigger jackass than the guy whose post you seem to have a problem with."
@24 "Sgiffy, you're a good person and have been around here for a while, but come on - this isn't high school. If you have to resort to name-calling, you're better off just keeping your trap shut."
Retard.
@24 "Sgiffy, you're a good person and have been around here for a while, but come on - this isn't high school. If you have to resort to name-calling, you're better off just keeping your trap shut."
Retard.
31
While it might be fun to laugh at a goon like Beck, and while it might seem enlightening to debate the use of terms like "fascism" and "communism", nobody seems to want to address the fact that one of the principle themes of 20th century America was a gradually increasing control of people's lives by the government. You don't need a poli sci degree, or a peculiar ability to see black helicopters everywhere to realize this.
32
@31 Really? The government no longer blatantly controls black people though Jim Crow. The government no longer prevents you from mailing birth control information. The government is substantially more hands off(;)) when it comes to porn. There are fewer restrictions on economic behavior(not necessarily a good thing). We haven't seen nearly the same level of oppression of decent that we saw in WW2 or even Vietnam.
While there have been some ups and downs, with the last 8 years being a down, people generally have more freedom today than in the past. We still have a fair bit of work to do(drug laws for one) but its pretty rare in my day that I encounter something I want to do, but cannot because the government won't let me.
While there have been some ups and downs, with the last 8 years being a down, people generally have more freedom today than in the past. We still have a fair bit of work to do(drug laws for one) but its pretty rare in my day that I encounter something I want to do, but cannot because the government won't let me.
33
Anti-government kooks have been peddling this line about the Federal Reserve, the income tax, the gold standard, yadda yadda, for decades now. If you really want to go back in time to before the modern economic system, I hope you like farming, and I hope you like dropping dead at 60. Most people were POOR then. This bugaboo of the Federal Reserve is precisely what provided the stability and capital flow that makes modern life possible.
The Federal Reserve doesn't have anything to do with Credit Default Swaps. The failure there was, OBVIOUSLY, too little government oversight, not too much.
The Federal Reserve doesn't have anything to do with Credit Default Swaps. The failure there was, OBVIOUSLY, too little government oversight, not too much.
34
Last time I opened a savings account, the interest rate was %0.1 annually. If you have more than $7,000 it goes up to %1. I opened that one because it takes more than $80,000 to get their incredibly awesome %2 'platinum' account. I made $190 from a one year $19,000 loan to the bank. If it weren't for their generous 'silver' savings account, I would have made $19 from that loan. And somehow that wound up being better than putting it into a 401k that was supposed to help me with 'retirement.'
We're not greedily trying to make our money grow. This is the new mechanism by which people have learned to survive. We're not all speculators trying to make a killing. We've been forced into speculation because money isn't worth shit until you have huge gobs of it.
"If you want growth you have to take some risk."
That's true. It's totally true. But let's not pretend that this is about 'growth'. It's not. It's about being able to live life without going broke or working until your body gives out. It's about having some free time with your family before you die. Remember when moms didn't have to work? Neither of my grandmothers had to work a day in their lives, even though one of my grandfathers was a factory worker. They had 5 kids.
If you're arguing that things haven't gotten worse, you're simply wrong. Money isn't what it used to be. We are now all taking 'risks' to supplement incomes that don't support us. This is directly related to the devaluation and the commoditization of ongoing, eternal debt created by the Fed from day 1. It's hot potato, and only the wealthy are winning.
We're not greedily trying to make our money grow. This is the new mechanism by which people have learned to survive. We're not all speculators trying to make a killing. We've been forced into speculation because money isn't worth shit until you have huge gobs of it.
"If you want growth you have to take some risk."
That's true. It's totally true. But let's not pretend that this is about 'growth'. It's not. It's about being able to live life without going broke or working until your body gives out. It's about having some free time with your family before you die. Remember when moms didn't have to work? Neither of my grandmothers had to work a day in their lives, even though one of my grandfathers was a factory worker. They had 5 kids.
If you're arguing that things haven't gotten worse, you're simply wrong. Money isn't what it used to be. We are now all taking 'risks' to supplement incomes that don't support us. This is directly related to the devaluation and the commoditization of ongoing, eternal debt created by the Fed from day 1. It's hot potato, and only the wealthy are winning.
35
Welcome to the new media age, where every nutjob on the planet gets a voice. It'll only get worse as we lose any semi-credible news sources.
36
"The Federal Reserve doesn't have anything to do with Credit Default Swaps."
Correct, but it has a lot to do with the interest rates set on loans. If the banks were lending money they actually HAD, maybe people could find a way to purchase a home without becoming indentured servants for the next 30 years, or without risk of losing the home and all the money they had spent trying to purchase it.
When a bank gets money from the fed, the interest rate they're expected to pay back is added directly to the interest they want from the loan. That money came from a printing press. And the value tied to it came from everyone else's wallet.
I realize that there are benefits to this system. People like you and I only get to experience them indirectly though. We never get the money back.
Correct, but it has a lot to do with the interest rates set on loans. If the banks were lending money they actually HAD, maybe people could find a way to purchase a home without becoming indentured servants for the next 30 years, or without risk of losing the home and all the money they had spent trying to purchase it.
When a bank gets money from the fed, the interest rate they're expected to pay back is added directly to the interest they want from the loan. That money came from a printing press. And the value tied to it came from everyone else's wallet.
I realize that there are benefits to this system. People like you and I only get to experience them indirectly though. We never get the money back.
37
He's desperate for ratings. At what point is it no longer acceptable to foment violence? No doubt even when someone is killed. Right wing turds! Pro-life is really pro death!
38
The clip posted in the SLOG has been pared down - here is a link to a longer clip that more clearly shows the argument he's making:
http://crooksandliars.com/media/play/qt/…
http://crooksandliars.com/media/play/qt/…
39
@36: get a fucking clue. You sound like Ezra Pound ranting about usury. Interest rates are necessary to attract lenders, and the interest doesn't come out of "everyone's wallet", it comes out of GROWTH. There's more value in the world afterwards, therefore there's more money. If you don't get this incredibly basic Remedial Economics point, you have no business at all commenting on economics, and should go back to pounding sand.
In your world, people work for nothing. How is that better? Care to describe for us the economics of feudalism for us?
In your world, people work for nothing. How is that better? Care to describe for us the economics of feudalism for us?
40
@34. At times you actually had to pay the bank to store your money safely.
That .1% is not much less that .04% CPI went up last month. Right now we have artificially low rates as the government tries to stimulate the economy. We are in a recession, its going to be hard to find returns much of anywhere unless you are quite clever. This is not going to last for ever. You could just sink your money into TIPS if your really concerned about inflation.
Look, people are not going to pay you a lot simply for the honor of holding your money even if they can lend it. Its always going to be less than other investments because of the simple fact that the money the bank lends has to have an interest rate less than the return the people making use of the money hope to get. If buisness investments are generating 8% returns a year the bank can't very well charge 15% in interest. Only a fool would borrow that. Likewise if they can't charge that much they can't pay you that much in interest.
And you can quite easily have a single parent home today. Just have to cut out cell phones, internet, eating out, getting a new car every 5 years, flying, not using hand-me-downs, ect. We have a much higher notion of what is the minimum for a decent life then we had in the past. My grandparents would not have dreamed about eating out even once a month. They cooked a ham on Sunday and had ham soup and sandwiches for the week. My aunt wore her sisters clothes for almost her whole childhood and didn't have a car until she was in her 20's. They lived in the same house their entire lives and when they bought it was hardly a desirable neighborhood. When it came time to finish the attic when the had another kid my grandfather got his brothers together and they did the work themselves.
Today I don't really now anyone who lives like that. That is not a good or bad thing, but while growth and progress has helped, if you want all those things then both parents are often going to have to work. Its not so much our money is worth less, its the people expect more out of life.
@36 and right now that rate is near zero. Most mortgages and lending are not funded with Fed money. Its a lender of last resort. The money to fund the US housing bubble came from other countries(and domestic investors) seeking safe instruments with good returns. MBS were one of these. The fed rate has some effect but its not nearly as simplistic as you put it. See this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_fun…
CDS were a way to make investing in bonds and other debt safer(haha) by insuring them against default. This was a problem of inadequate regulation as unlike other forms of insurance there was no requirement to maintain sufficient reserves to pay them if needed. There is also the problem that individual actors will rarely consider systemic risk. So for each issuer these things were fine, but when the system went down the shitter they exploded. The only actor in the system that can prevent such things is the government or the Fed if given the authority.
More...
That .1% is not much less that .04% CPI went up last month. Right now we have artificially low rates as the government tries to stimulate the economy. We are in a recession, its going to be hard to find returns much of anywhere unless you are quite clever. This is not going to last for ever. You could just sink your money into TIPS if your really concerned about inflation.
Look, people are not going to pay you a lot simply for the honor of holding your money even if they can lend it. Its always going to be less than other investments because of the simple fact that the money the bank lends has to have an interest rate less than the return the people making use of the money hope to get. If buisness investments are generating 8% returns a year the bank can't very well charge 15% in interest. Only a fool would borrow that. Likewise if they can't charge that much they can't pay you that much in interest.
And you can quite easily have a single parent home today. Just have to cut out cell phones, internet, eating out, getting a new car every 5 years, flying, not using hand-me-downs, ect. We have a much higher notion of what is the minimum for a decent life then we had in the past. My grandparents would not have dreamed about eating out even once a month. They cooked a ham on Sunday and had ham soup and sandwiches for the week. My aunt wore her sisters clothes for almost her whole childhood and didn't have a car until she was in her 20's. They lived in the same house their entire lives and when they bought it was hardly a desirable neighborhood. When it came time to finish the attic when the had another kid my grandfather got his brothers together and they did the work themselves.
Today I don't really now anyone who lives like that. That is not a good or bad thing, but while growth and progress has helped, if you want all those things then both parents are often going to have to work. Its not so much our money is worth less, its the people expect more out of life.
@36 and right now that rate is near zero. Most mortgages and lending are not funded with Fed money. Its a lender of last resort. The money to fund the US housing bubble came from other countries(and domestic investors) seeking safe instruments with good returns. MBS were one of these. The fed rate has some effect but its not nearly as simplistic as you put it. See this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_fun…
CDS were a way to make investing in bonds and other debt safer(haha) by insuring them against default. This was a problem of inadequate regulation as unlike other forms of insurance there was no requirement to maintain sufficient reserves to pay them if needed. There is also the problem that individual actors will rarely consider systemic risk. So for each issuer these things were fine, but when the system went down the shitter they exploded. The only actor in the system that can prevent such things is the government or the Fed if given the authority.
41
@39, wait, who needs a clue here?
"That money came from a printing press. And the value tied to it came from everyone else's wallet."
Is there some part of that sentence that just flew over your head? Did you read it? Or are you arguing that creating money and lending it out at interest has no effect on the value of the money in your wallet? If so, you're completely naive. Or are you under the impression that you're getting that back somehow? In that case, you're beyond naive and simply stupid.
"it comes out of GROWTH."
If you hadn't completely misunderstood an incredibly simple statement, you would not look like such an ass.
"There's more value in the world afterwards, therefore there's more money."
Um, cool, then I will start counterfeiting money, start circulating it and watch our economy shoot through the roof as I collect interest on that money. I had no fucking idea it was this simple. Thanks for the heads up. I can't believe no one else has ever thought of this.
"If you don't get this incredibly basic Remedial Economics point, you have no business at all commenting on economics."
Take your own advice here. That's about the only smart thing you have said.
"In your world, people work for nothing."
See, now you're just kind of wandering mentally. Compose an argument in your head. Proofread it, go back and make sure you understood what you're responding to, and get back to me once you've gotten your foot out of your mouth.
"That money came from a printing press. And the value tied to it came from everyone else's wallet."
Is there some part of that sentence that just flew over your head? Did you read it? Or are you arguing that creating money and lending it out at interest has no effect on the value of the money in your wallet? If so, you're completely naive. Or are you under the impression that you're getting that back somehow? In that case, you're beyond naive and simply stupid.
"it comes out of GROWTH."
If you hadn't completely misunderstood an incredibly simple statement, you would not look like such an ass.
"There's more value in the world afterwards, therefore there's more money."
Um, cool, then I will start counterfeiting money, start circulating it and watch our economy shoot through the roof as I collect interest on that money. I had no fucking idea it was this simple. Thanks for the heads up. I can't believe no one else has ever thought of this.
"If you don't get this incredibly basic Remedial Economics point, you have no business at all commenting on economics."
Take your own advice here. That's about the only smart thing you have said.
"In your world, people work for nothing."
See, now you're just kind of wandering mentally. Compose an argument in your head. Proofread it, go back and make sure you understood what you're responding to, and get back to me once you've gotten your foot out of your mouth.
42
America has high-speed rail linking it's major cities. They all just happen to be on the Eastern Seaboard and within 200 miles of each other.
44
@43: if you seriously believe that your grandparents had a higher standard of living than you do, you're wrong. If you seriously believe that MOST people in your grandparents' time were better off than most people today, you are being willfully obtuse.
Counterfeiting? Printing money? What are you talking about? See the word "VALUE" there? You seem to be confused about the relationship between currency and money. They're not the same thing. The rest of your "argument", awash with spittle and bile, doesn't even make enough sense to respond to.
"Money isn't what it used to be" -- what does this even mean? Are you saying that a dollar isn't worth as much as it used to be? Well, you certainly DID learn something from your grandparents, because that's a grandparenty argument if I ever heard one.Yes, inflation exists.
My arguments are not to your liking, but yours? Well, let's see -- did your grandparents live before the Federal Reserve? If not, then why did you bring them up? Do you think there was no inflation before the Federal Reserve? Or bubbles or panics?
I agree with you on one thing, though -- @40's got some good things to say. You haven't answered them. That's because you're not only wrong, you're wrong in a special way, a post-millennial idiocy that is disturbingly wide-spread. It leads people like you into the arms of Ron Paul and Lyndon LaRouche and David Duke. I understand you're frightened by the New World Order and the UN and the black helicopters and stuff. Please don't start blowing things up.
Counterfeiting? Printing money? What are you talking about? See the word "VALUE" there? You seem to be confused about the relationship between currency and money. They're not the same thing. The rest of your "argument", awash with spittle and bile, doesn't even make enough sense to respond to.
"Money isn't what it used to be" -- what does this even mean? Are you saying that a dollar isn't worth as much as it used to be? Well, you certainly DID learn something from your grandparents, because that's a grandparenty argument if I ever heard one.Yes, inflation exists.
My arguments are not to your liking, but yours? Well, let's see -- did your grandparents live before the Federal Reserve? If not, then why did you bring them up? Do you think there was no inflation before the Federal Reserve? Or bubbles or panics?
I agree with you on one thing, though -- @40's got some good things to say. You haven't answered them. That's because you're not only wrong, you're wrong in a special way, a post-millennial idiocy that is disturbingly wide-spread. It leads people like you into the arms of Ron Paul and Lyndon LaRouche and David Duke. I understand you're frightened by the New World Order and the UN and the black helicopters and stuff. Please don't start blowing things up.
45
@21: This is completely untrue, as was pointed out yesterday. Not the #2 show on cable. Not even in the top 20. In fact, in the cable news spectrum he comes in third behind O'Reilly and Hannity with a viewership of 2.266 million (vs. O'Reilly's 3.524).
I'd suggest you use actual facts, otherwise it makes the rest of your assertions look as clueless as this one.
I'd suggest you use actual facts, otherwise it makes the rest of your assertions look as clueless as this one.
47
if right wingers begin staging terrorist attacks in this country, look back at clips like this of his show and it won't seem so funny anymore. Let's NOT forget about the boiling mad, paranoid, armed to the teeth, apocalypse-anticipating fringe right wing all over this country. We're only over 2 months into the Obama administration.
48
1984 is the "non-violent fascism"? A state perpetually at war that tortured its own citizens? Did Beck even read the Cliff Notes to that book?
49
This guy is right on. I've been saying that for a very long time. We have far less rights than we used to, via the Patriot Act; an act re-signed by both Obama and McCain. If being arrested and held indefinitely without charge, and not being able to even confer with legal counsel isn't proof enough...How about government's unwarranted spying on our telephone conversations because of legislation signed and approved by McCain and Obama.
And no, I'm not talking about Guantanamo refugees. I'm talking about you and me.
Look at what happened in Minnesota before and during the RNC:
Protesters and reporters arrested in illegal raids on private home property prior to the event, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wShi41Lco…
Confiscating equipment from independent news media, as what happened to a group of young people from New York:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIm-IWaOP…
Arresting professional reporters on the spot for no infractions whatsoever, but who happened to be questioning Washington's powers-that-be:
http://www.youtube.com/watchv=oYjyvkR0bG…
Law enforcement troops dressed in all black behind faceless shields, who illegally have no identification. Tear-gassing people who peacefully exercise our First Amendment rights, the same right that allows abortion foes and advocates alike to assemble and express their views and empower their sense of right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6L8J3L-2…
Looking very much like a Hitler ensemble of the new world, cold and unfeeling; a precursor of the dark time that is to come.
It was no different in Denver. More of the same in its own twisted way.
Arresting network news reporters on the spot for no infractions whatsoever, but who happened to be questioning Washington's powers-that-be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6eGWgA6y…
Arresting non-violent protesters and innocent bystanders alike, throwing them into barbed-wire cages in some wherehouse. And who were thisclose to doing the same to a group of Iraq War veterans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_SObR-nZ…
The latter a situation in and of itself that highlights exactly what is wrong here in our country and what is necessary to fight the real battle we need to be facing if we want to achieve the long-overdue progress we so desperately need; where we place the common good of our people above anything else.
"Support Our Troops" is not a blanket slogan exclusive to one side that can be used to criticize the other in a blind, stubborn manner to justify partisan-party politics. You take the emotion and bias out, and what is left is a deeper, more logical discussion that invites both viewpoints to get a better overall interpretation. To see it not as a matter of "blue or red" or "us against them", but to look at it together simply through our most shared and basic value about what is right and what is wrong for us on this Earth.
A mother who loses her son in the line of battle feels no less pain or sheds no more tears than a mother in Iraq who lost her son not as a soldier, but as an innocent civilian among others in a blind, discriminate bombing.
What is more right here?
Iraq Veterans against the War only serves to highlight the fact our real problems are way beyond political bickering; it is a prime example. They, not us, should have the final say regarding what is best here; they've been there, and anyone who says they're not supporting their brothers and sisters overseas are only looking at them as tools for the party line, not as individual beings who've made it back from a horrific journey only to selflessly give to a cause that puts others before them.
While you argue with each other behind the symbol of war to convey your overall political views and espouse party superiority, they only think about is the safety and well-being and suffering of others in a far, distant land; a whole other world suspended in the darkest, loneliest place that can exist only in the minds of those who have been there.
It is raw and uncut and touches on the matter in the most true, honest, and personal way.
That is real to me.
Anything else is shallow grandstanding that is a slap in the face to these vulnerable, hurting souls who are doing their best to keep it together.
Yes, they need our support.
And politics has nothing to do with it.
While you call people names and hang your respective condescending tags to label them a nut for sharing different views based on documented fact, you fail to see that together you are hammering them for the very same things you denounce. It doesn't matter if it's Glenn Beck or Ralph Nader, they are saying the very same thing and getting trashed for it by opposing sides. So blind and biased even that the left trashes Nader himself for speaking on the issues they care most about; issues that are ignored in practice and even in speeches alone by their own party.
Why?
Because it's not about truth or a willingness to look at the facts and really try to see it from an honest, social perspective. It's about what is good for their party and what is best for them. These supporters worry first about being in power, and only then do they think about the most-pressing issues of our country. It is why Nader and his supporters don't care about running or not running in order to appease the gall of Democrats. It's because they put the issues of our everyday lives front and center, of upmost importance. It is not a "red or blue" thing.
Democrats will tell you otherwise.
They have made his life hell simply for their supposed belief that he "cost" them the 2000 election. It didn't matter that he was running on themes not even touched upon by either party, themes that were truly relevant to the needs of the American people, as evidenced by millions of supporters. It didn't matter if an examination of the facts proved Nader to be right about the petty differences between Bush and an Al Gore who was even more militaristic in his platform:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=… us&q=gore+bush+similarities+nafta+gatt+the+death+penalty&btnG=Search
It doesn't matter that David Brower, one of the founding members of the Sierra Club, said 5 years ago that the Clinton-Gore administration had "done more to harm the environment than Reagan, Bush, and Bush Jr. COMBINED."
It's about winning most of all, not about facts or working to incorporate other viewpoints in order to get the most representative, honest, and ultimately most effective solutions for the country. Nader questioned their loyalty to US, you and me, based on what he saw. Instead of looking at themselves and taking responsibility, the Democrats had him excluded from the debates with police force!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVzxBOTtP…
History shows that these debates are essential for a serious run and that Nader would've been the same live, contender Ross Perot was in 1992; his campaign and the hopes of millions of others were effectively crushed for good, though, by this outright political sabotage. But in their most ignorant splendor the Democrats turned around and called HIM the spoiler!
Why were we supposed to vote for this party again?
In 2004 they illegally and underhandedly had Nader's name kicked off the ballot in many states because they felt he would hurt their chances of winning, nevermind the everyday issues they were ignoring:
http://www.gp.org/press/pr-national.php?…
For 8 years they raged against him, not with facts but by a single, primary argument about costing their party something, different only in the types of vicious, wicked name-calling used to surround the accusation. Further proof, I guess, in the spirit of things.
As if doing nothing but complying with the Bush administration for 8 years wasn't enough, the party finally had a chance to prove Nader wrong and justify themselves as the true saviors we needed along.
In a world where actions speak louder than words, their big shiny moment came during the presidential debates. Where they and the Republicans used their "non-partisan", partisan-run Debate Commission to continue its tradition of excluding other candidates from the stage. The single fact election polls since 1996 have overwhelmingly shown people's desire to see other candidates debate doesn't matter.
If you don't know by now, it's not about what the people want. It's about what is important most of all to the party. Red or blue...
"Wall Street Bailout" to spell it out for you.
Take heed of the fact there is now a domestic military unit within the United States, created by the government not for protection against outside forces, but for the sole, specific purpose to monitor its own citizens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPukypFTB…
Iraq veterans against the war know, as many of us do, there is something not right in this country. They are an increasing number among many who have come together, when truth became a moment in time preceded by years of blind, biased reasoning that actively sought out and was comforted by political propaganda; words they wanted to hear, facts they didn't want to see.
People who once wore red or blue as proudly as you but who now see a different reality. A viewpoint not made overnight or readily accepted, but a final realization gained only through a slow, painful, increasingly alarming process that starts the moment you begin to openly take a look at the world.
And let reality sink its way in.
To you who think a Nader or a Beck is crazy, who dismiss their beliefs of common ground and the need for universal bonding in this time of peril...listen to what their supporters are saying to you for a change:
We WILL be united. It's just a matter of time.
If not now, literally at the most pressing and urgent moment of all...
Then in the not-so-distant future, in a place vastly cold and darkly different than the one we live in today.
Abortion, the death penalty, gay marriage...trivial items.
What will matter to us most is the only thing we will be left with; the most basic, human value that has been the key to our survival since we've been on this Earth. It will be an understanding of what has always been most important to us in this world, not about the issues we think are important today.
For only then will we truly know what is right and what is wrong.
Indeed, it will be the only thing that will really matter.
More...
And no, I'm not talking about Guantanamo refugees. I'm talking about you and me.
Look at what happened in Minnesota before and during the RNC:
Protesters and reporters arrested in illegal raids on private home property prior to the event, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wShi41Lco…
Confiscating equipment from independent news media, as what happened to a group of young people from New York:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIm-IWaOP…
Arresting professional reporters on the spot for no infractions whatsoever, but who happened to be questioning Washington's powers-that-be:
http://www.youtube.com/watchv=oYjyvkR0bG…
Law enforcement troops dressed in all black behind faceless shields, who illegally have no identification. Tear-gassing people who peacefully exercise our First Amendment rights, the same right that allows abortion foes and advocates alike to assemble and express their views and empower their sense of right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6L8J3L-2…
Looking very much like a Hitler ensemble of the new world, cold and unfeeling; a precursor of the dark time that is to come.
It was no different in Denver. More of the same in its own twisted way.
Arresting network news reporters on the spot for no infractions whatsoever, but who happened to be questioning Washington's powers-that-be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6eGWgA6y…
Arresting non-violent protesters and innocent bystanders alike, throwing them into barbed-wire cages in some wherehouse. And who were thisclose to doing the same to a group of Iraq War veterans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_SObR-nZ…
The latter a situation in and of itself that highlights exactly what is wrong here in our country and what is necessary to fight the real battle we need to be facing if we want to achieve the long-overdue progress we so desperately need; where we place the common good of our people above anything else.
"Support Our Troops" is not a blanket slogan exclusive to one side that can be used to criticize the other in a blind, stubborn manner to justify partisan-party politics. You take the emotion and bias out, and what is left is a deeper, more logical discussion that invites both viewpoints to get a better overall interpretation. To see it not as a matter of "blue or red" or "us against them", but to look at it together simply through our most shared and basic value about what is right and what is wrong for us on this Earth.
A mother who loses her son in the line of battle feels no less pain or sheds no more tears than a mother in Iraq who lost her son not as a soldier, but as an innocent civilian among others in a blind, discriminate bombing.
What is more right here?
Iraq Veterans against the War only serves to highlight the fact our real problems are way beyond political bickering; it is a prime example. They, not us, should have the final say regarding what is best here; they've been there, and anyone who says they're not supporting their brothers and sisters overseas are only looking at them as tools for the party line, not as individual beings who've made it back from a horrific journey only to selflessly give to a cause that puts others before them.
While you argue with each other behind the symbol of war to convey your overall political views and espouse party superiority, they only think about is the safety and well-being and suffering of others in a far, distant land; a whole other world suspended in the darkest, loneliest place that can exist only in the minds of those who have been there.
It is raw and uncut and touches on the matter in the most true, honest, and personal way.
That is real to me.
Anything else is shallow grandstanding that is a slap in the face to these vulnerable, hurting souls who are doing their best to keep it together.
Yes, they need our support.
And politics has nothing to do with it.
While you call people names and hang your respective condescending tags to label them a nut for sharing different views based on documented fact, you fail to see that together you are hammering them for the very same things you denounce. It doesn't matter if it's Glenn Beck or Ralph Nader, they are saying the very same thing and getting trashed for it by opposing sides. So blind and biased even that the left trashes Nader himself for speaking on the issues they care most about; issues that are ignored in practice and even in speeches alone by their own party.
Why?
Because it's not about truth or a willingness to look at the facts and really try to see it from an honest, social perspective. It's about what is good for their party and what is best for them. These supporters worry first about being in power, and only then do they think about the most-pressing issues of our country. It is why Nader and his supporters don't care about running or not running in order to appease the gall of Democrats. It's because they put the issues of our everyday lives front and center, of upmost importance. It is not a "red or blue" thing.
Democrats will tell you otherwise.
They have made his life hell simply for their supposed belief that he "cost" them the 2000 election. It didn't matter that he was running on themes not even touched upon by either party, themes that were truly relevant to the needs of the American people, as evidenced by millions of supporters. It didn't matter if an examination of the facts proved Nader to be right about the petty differences between Bush and an Al Gore who was even more militaristic in his platform:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=… us&q=gore+bush+similarities+nafta+gatt+the+death+penalty&btnG=Search
It doesn't matter that David Brower, one of the founding members of the Sierra Club, said 5 years ago that the Clinton-Gore administration had "done more to harm the environment than Reagan, Bush, and Bush Jr. COMBINED."
It's about winning most of all, not about facts or working to incorporate other viewpoints in order to get the most representative, honest, and ultimately most effective solutions for the country. Nader questioned their loyalty to US, you and me, based on what he saw. Instead of looking at themselves and taking responsibility, the Democrats had him excluded from the debates with police force!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVzxBOTtP…
History shows that these debates are essential for a serious run and that Nader would've been the same live, contender Ross Perot was in 1992; his campaign and the hopes of millions of others were effectively crushed for good, though, by this outright political sabotage. But in their most ignorant splendor the Democrats turned around and called HIM the spoiler!
Why were we supposed to vote for this party again?
In 2004 they illegally and underhandedly had Nader's name kicked off the ballot in many states because they felt he would hurt their chances of winning, nevermind the everyday issues they were ignoring:
http://www.gp.org/press/pr-national.php?…
For 8 years they raged against him, not with facts but by a single, primary argument about costing their party something, different only in the types of vicious, wicked name-calling used to surround the accusation. Further proof, I guess, in the spirit of things.
As if doing nothing but complying with the Bush administration for 8 years wasn't enough, the party finally had a chance to prove Nader wrong and justify themselves as the true saviors we needed along.
In a world where actions speak louder than words, their big shiny moment came during the presidential debates. Where they and the Republicans used their "non-partisan", partisan-run Debate Commission to continue its tradition of excluding other candidates from the stage. The single fact election polls since 1996 have overwhelmingly shown people's desire to see other candidates debate doesn't matter.
If you don't know by now, it's not about what the people want. It's about what is important most of all to the party. Red or blue...
"Wall Street Bailout" to spell it out for you.
Take heed of the fact there is now a domestic military unit within the United States, created by the government not for protection against outside forces, but for the sole, specific purpose to monitor its own citizens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPukypFTB…
Iraq veterans against the war know, as many of us do, there is something not right in this country. They are an increasing number among many who have come together, when truth became a moment in time preceded by years of blind, biased reasoning that actively sought out and was comforted by political propaganda; words they wanted to hear, facts they didn't want to see.
People who once wore red or blue as proudly as you but who now see a different reality. A viewpoint not made overnight or readily accepted, but a final realization gained only through a slow, painful, increasingly alarming process that starts the moment you begin to openly take a look at the world.
And let reality sink its way in.
To you who think a Nader or a Beck is crazy, who dismiss their beliefs of common ground and the need for universal bonding in this time of peril...listen to what their supporters are saying to you for a change:
We WILL be united. It's just a matter of time.
If not now, literally at the most pressing and urgent moment of all...
Then in the not-so-distant future, in a place vastly cold and darkly different than the one we live in today.
Abortion, the death penalty, gay marriage...trivial items.
What will matter to us most is the only thing we will be left with; the most basic, human value that has been the key to our survival since we've been on this Earth. It will be an understanding of what has always been most important to us in this world, not about the issues we think are important today.
For only then will we truly know what is right and what is wrong.
Indeed, it will be the only thing that will really matter.
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