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News & ArtsFriday, March 27, 2009
Religion Youth Pastor Watch
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 10:05 AM
A youth minister at Village Baptist Church was arrested this week after a 15-year-old girl told police she had a sexual encounter with him. Doug Davis, 30, was taken into custody at the church Monday on arrest warrants on complaints of second-degree rape, rape by instrumentation and making lewd proposals to a minor under the age of 16.
Police say the girl was not affiliated with the church and was not a member of the youth group. “They were apparently family friends,” The Village Deputy Police Chief Steve Jagosh said.... Village Baptist Church leaders would not comment on the arrest, but an e-mail sent to church members said that because “of a situation in the life of Doug Davis, he has resigned as our student minister.”
A youth pastor was sentenced to eight years in jail yesterday for the “calculated” sexual abuse of a teenage boy from his Coast church. The 28-year-old man had pleaded not guilty to maintaining a relationship with the boy, starting when he was 13, for about two years.But a Maroochydore District Court jury found him guilty of the maintaining charge, sodomy and eight counts of indecent treatment of a child. The teenager claimed the abuse began with inappropriate touching during a youth camp and escalated to oral and anal sex.
Some details cannot be published to protect the identity of the teen, who is now 18.
The SWAT Team descends on Chapel Hill Baptist Church.
Inside, a man and his wife who've come to confront the pastor at gunpoint and have taken him and a couple of church employees hostage. The man playing the role of gunman is really a church youth pastor and says the scenario is frighteningly real. "There's a lot of value in a role play like this from my vantage point..." said Todd Jackson, Youth Pastor at Christian Heritage Church.
2
Hey what about day-care workers?
Don't they have an unusually high rate of criminal activity regarding children?
Well, maybe they don't. But if you collect enough articles, you can make it seem that way.
Or clowns. Everybody hates clowns. That could make for an interesting series of articles.
If anything, Clown Watch will likely have more interesting photos.
Don't they have an unusually high rate of criminal activity regarding children?
Well, maybe they don't. But if you collect enough articles, you can make it seem that way.
Or clowns. Everybody hates clowns. That could make for an interesting series of articles.
If anything, Clown Watch will likely have more interesting photos.
3
Lenny, the sheer number of articles Dan finds makes it pretty alarming to me (I'm a parent).
I think day care workers have to go through background checks. Not sure, but remember the wave of child molestation allegations at daycare centers in the 80s? They would have done something to reassure parents, even if it was mostly bullshit.
Nonetheless, I bet this happens in other instances where other adults supervise kids.
I think day care workers have to go through background checks. Not sure, but remember the wave of child molestation allegations at daycare centers in the 80s? They would have done something to reassure parents, even if it was mostly bullshit.
Nonetheless, I bet this happens in other instances where other adults supervise kids.
4
Actually, @2 26 states, including Washington and the District of Columbia, require federal fingerprint ID & background checks for all childcare workers. Washington state generally ranks pretty highly in terms of compliance, and was rated in the top 10 this year by the National Association of Child Care Resource and Referral Agencies:
http://issuu.com/naccrra/docs/we-can-do-…
Nice try, though. We'll send you the home version of the game.
http://issuu.com/naccrra/docs/we-can-do-…
Nice try, though. We'll send you the home version of the game.
5
It really makes you wonder: Do these idjits molest kids because of the easy availability of fresh young, naïve victims, or are they drawn to jobs like that because they're already pedophiles? Either way, it's pretty sick stuff.
6
You have to go through some background checks in Washington just to chaperon your kids field trip to the zoo.
7
2, Lenny, honestly, do you think that Dan actually thinks that all youth pastors are child molesters?
Did you for even a millisecond, after reading this story, even consider the notion that all youth pastors are child molesters?
Do you feel that you are of exceptional intelligence, and while you know that the majority of youth pastors are not child molesters, the masses, who don't have your superior intellect, will be fooled?
Could it be that maybe Dan is expecting the reader to use critical thinking, rather than dumbing everything down? Maybe, just maybe, their is another point he is trying to make?
If not, exactly who do you think Dan is trying to fool?
Did you for even a millisecond, after reading this story, even consider the notion that all youth pastors are child molesters?
Do you feel that you are of exceptional intelligence, and while you know that the majority of youth pastors are not child molesters, the masses, who don't have your superior intellect, will be fooled?
Could it be that maybe Dan is expecting the reader to use critical thinking, rather than dumbing everything down? Maybe, just maybe, their is another point he is trying to make?
If not, exactly who do you think Dan is trying to fool?
9
@3 "the sheer number of articles Dan finds makes it pretty alarming to me (I'm a parent)."
Matt, that statement right there shows my point. Because Dan's TRYING to alarm you. To make you hate the same things he hates.
This isn't a public service message. It's not being published for the safety of children. If that were the case, he would just be publishing details of local crimes, regardless of religion.
He's not trying to humiliate child-molestors. He's trying to humiliate RELIGIOUS child-molestors. As if their religion somehow makes their crimes more heinous.
Are atheist child-molestors getting a free pass here?
@7 Rob, I'm not claiming any superior insight here. Please don't try to characterize me like that. It's not relevant and you make good arguments without that kind of attack.
Matt, that statement right there shows my point. Because Dan's TRYING to alarm you. To make you hate the same things he hates.
This isn't a public service message. It's not being published for the safety of children. If that were the case, he would just be publishing details of local crimes, regardless of religion.
He's not trying to humiliate child-molestors. He's trying to humiliate RELIGIOUS child-molestors. As if their religion somehow makes their crimes more heinous.
Are atheist child-molestors getting a free pass here?
@7 Rob, I'm not claiming any superior insight here. Please don't try to characterize me like that. It's not relevant and you make good arguments without that kind of attack.
10
3
If there are 350,000 churches in America (if you google it you get various figures in that ballpark) and each has one 'Youth Pastor' (larger ones have several, let's assume an average of one) that would mean that if there was a deviant Youth Pastor featured everyday of the year that would be 0.1% of the Youth Pastors.
If there are 350,000 churches in America (if you google it you get various figures in that ballpark) and each has one 'Youth Pastor' (larger ones have several, let's assume an average of one) that would mean that if there was a deviant Youth Pastor featured everyday of the year that would be 0.1% of the Youth Pastors.
11
As long as the religious continue to use the media to misrepresent homosexuality as something unnatural and indecent, the homosexuals have the right to use the same media to point out the hypocrisy of claiming any group is more or less moral than another.
I hope the lennys and loveschilds out there are speaking up on religious web sites against the unfair portrayal of gays as immoral and indecent.
I hope the lennys and loveschilds out there are speaking up on religious web sites against the unfair portrayal of gays as immoral and indecent.
12
9, Lenny, did you not read the rest of #3's post, or did you purposely leave it out?
3 is expressing a concern for any adult who is charged with watching children. Did you not get that? Do you really think that Matt from Denver thinks that all youth pastors are child molesters? Do you think that the oh so clever and evil Dan Savage fooled another one? Really?
I didn't attack you. I asked you a direct question. If you don't claim superior intellect, and you were not fooled, then why do you think that other people might be able think it through as well?
Do you think that there might be another reason why youth pastors are the subject of this series, if, like you other people can figure out that not all youth pastors are bad? Or are you saying that other people can't figure it out for some reason?
Again, I'll ask, (Will you answer this time?) who do you think Dan is trying to fool?
...remember the wave of child molestation allegations at daycare centers in the 80s? They would have done something to reassure parents, even if it was mostly bullshit.
Nonetheless, I bet this happens in other instances where other adults supervise kids.
3 is expressing a concern for any adult who is charged with watching children. Did you not get that? Do you really think that Matt from Denver thinks that all youth pastors are child molesters? Do you think that the oh so clever and evil Dan Savage fooled another one? Really?
I didn't attack you. I asked you a direct question. If you don't claim superior intellect, and you were not fooled, then why do you think that other people might be able think it through as well?
Do you think that there might be another reason why youth pastors are the subject of this series, if, like you other people can figure out that not all youth pastors are bad? Or are you saying that other people can't figure it out for some reason?
Again, I'll ask, (Will you answer this time?) who do you think Dan is trying to fool?
13
Because no context is provided the '...Watch' is worse than useless, it is harmful and misleading.
If 10% of Youth Pastors engage in inappropriate behavior it is a terrible problem.
If 0.001% do it is still a problem but on a much different scale.
Dan is smearing religion, specifically Christianity, with the 'Watch'.
If there is a case to be made Dan should either do the research and journalism to make the case or drop it if he is unwilling to cover it in a responsible manner.
If AFA did a 'Homo Watch' highlighting each and every misdeed by a homosexual anywhere in the country in an attempt to build animosity toward homosexuals they would be blasted as hatemongers.
That is exactly what Dan is doing.
If 10% of Youth Pastors engage in inappropriate behavior it is a terrible problem.
If 0.001% do it is still a problem but on a much different scale.
Dan is smearing religion, specifically Christianity, with the 'Watch'.
If there is a case to be made Dan should either do the research and journalism to make the case or drop it if he is unwilling to cover it in a responsible manner.
If AFA did a 'Homo Watch' highlighting each and every misdeed by a homosexual anywhere in the country in an attempt to build animosity toward homosexuals they would be blasted as hatemongers.
That is exactly what Dan is doing.
14
11
Fighting hypocracy and distortion with hypocracy and distortion is a formula for mutual destruction.
If homosexuals are being misrepresented use the media to portray them accurately and educate people.
Fighting hypocracy and distortion with hypocracy and distortion is a formula for mutual destruction.
If homosexuals are being misrepresented use the media to portray them accurately and educate people.
15
@5, to answer your question: I'd guess that monsters are drawn to jobs where they have the opportunity to indulge their monsterness. Better to be a youth pastor than, say, an English teacher. For the latter, the necessary credentials are harder to acquire, and there is less opportunity to design situations optimally for predation. So from a parent's perspective, I would be (indeed, I am) more worried about youth pastors than school teachers. Of course, Lenny is right. Most youth pastors (and English teachers) have sought out their job for more noble reasons.
17
@12 Rob, I can't point-for-point address every argument somebody spews out and demands an answer for but I'll address your one favorite question:
"who do you think Dan is trying to fool?"
Let me submit a similar question:
"who do you think the homophobes are trying to fool?"
The answer to both questions is: They wish to fool whoever they can. By spreading stereotypes, generalizations, and hatred. By applying labels to people.
I'm not defending religious people. I'm not defending youth pastors. And I won't defend Dan while he uses the same cowardly rhetorical tactics of his opponents.
"who do you think Dan is trying to fool?"
Let me submit a similar question:
"who do you think the homophobes are trying to fool?"
The answer to both questions is: They wish to fool whoever they can. By spreading stereotypes, generalizations, and hatred. By applying labels to people.
I'm not defending religious people. I'm not defending youth pastors. And I won't defend Dan while he uses the same cowardly rhetorical tactics of his opponents.
18
@10 your stats mean that 0.1% of youth pastors cause sexual abuse in a given year. If we assume that youth pastors hold that job for 10 years (Is that reasonable? How long does someone stay a youth pastor?) then 1% of youth pastors will molest/sexually abuse/enter an inappropriate sexual relationship with one of their charges at some point in their career. Icky.
Plus, what about the ones that don't get caught? I don't even have a good way to estimate that, though I always hear people say that a majority of sexual abuse/rape cases go unreported.
Plus, what about the ones that don't get caught? I don't even have a good way to estimate that, though I always hear people say that a majority of sexual abuse/rape cases go unreported.
19
17, Lenny, for the sake of argument, let us suppose that Dan is trying to fool people. Who do you think he is fooling? If you don't have a superior intellect, who, unlike you, won't be able to figure out. Do you think there are a lot of people who don't have your intelligence?
21
19, Rob, I answered your question. I have no question for you. This isn't about you or me.
My question is for Dan Savage:
What GOOD comes from Youth Pastor Watch?
My question is for Dan Savage:
What GOOD comes from Youth Pastor Watch?
23
rob....
lenny doesn't have to think dan's actually fooling anyone to dislike his method. but to answer your question directly, how about @18. that poster seems to think there are, in fact, a high occurrence of youth pastors who molest. and, frankly, it would be disingenuous to pretend others who post here don't feel that way.
what i find interesting, as well, rob, is that you were such a staunch supporter of adams because none of us know, because none of us were there. yet you support these posts that basically give the same treatment to each individual profiled, as well as the larger group they are a part of. sure, it doesn't take a great intellect to "figure it out" -- but it's not ONLY about figuring it out.
lenny doesn't have to think dan's actually fooling anyone to dislike his method. but to answer your question directly, how about @18. that poster seems to think there are, in fact, a high occurrence of youth pastors who molest. and, frankly, it would be disingenuous to pretend others who post here don't feel that way.
what i find interesting, as well, rob, is that you were such a staunch supporter of adams because none of us know, because none of us were there. yet you support these posts that basically give the same treatment to each individual profiled, as well as the larger group they are a part of. sure, it doesn't take a great intellect to "figure it out" -- but it's not ONLY about figuring it out.
24
21, Lenny, you didn't answer. Since you claim you don't have superior intelligence, who do you think is going to be fooled by these posts? Who, unlike you, is going to come away from YPW thinking that all youth pastors are child molesters? Are there a lot of people who won't understand what you understand?
(You won't answer this one because you know it exposes a fatal flaw in your argument.)
(You won't answer this one because you know it exposes a fatal flaw in your argument.)
25
Why does Dan care if Youth Pastors become involved with teenagers?
He doesn't think extra-maritial sex is wrong.
He thought it was totally cool for the Mayor of Portland to make out with a minor and bonk a teenager.
The real hypocrite exposed in the Youth Pastor Watch is Dan.
He doesn't think extra-maritial sex is wrong.
He thought it was totally cool for the Mayor of Portland to make out with a minor and bonk a teenager.
The real hypocrite exposed in the Youth Pastor Watch is Dan.
26
Are you really are that obtuse, lenny, or have you just not been paying attention for, like, the past four or five years Dan's been posting these items?
The "context" has been pretty clear from Day One: Believers claim certain moral precepts are directly ascribable to one's belief in the existence of God, namely, that morality cannot exist in society without the threat of righteous judgment by a wrathful God held over the populace; that those who believe in God are morally superior to those who do not; and that married heterosexual relationships are inherently superior than all others when it comes to raising children. These are all precepts expressed by many, I would posit a majority, of the religious community, and are frequently cited as justification for denying GLBT individuals the right to marry, the right to adopt, and to raise children. Dan's recitation of these items is his way of pointing out the quite obvious fallacy of these precepts; he has NEVER stated (and you've yet to provide evidence to the contrary), that "ALL youth pastors are pederasts", or, that "ALL believers are hypocrites", despite your repeated insistence of this being the case by inference.
Nobody's buying your malarky around here, lenny, not the first time you said, it nor at any other time you've kept repeating it; saying it over-and-over ain't gonna make it so.
The "context" has been pretty clear from Day One: Believers claim certain moral precepts are directly ascribable to one's belief in the existence of God, namely, that morality cannot exist in society without the threat of righteous judgment by a wrathful God held over the populace; that those who believe in God are morally superior to those who do not; and that married heterosexual relationships are inherently superior than all others when it comes to raising children. These are all precepts expressed by many, I would posit a majority, of the religious community, and are frequently cited as justification for denying GLBT individuals the right to marry, the right to adopt, and to raise children. Dan's recitation of these items is his way of pointing out the quite obvious fallacy of these precepts; he has NEVER stated (and you've yet to provide evidence to the contrary), that "ALL youth pastors are pederasts", or, that "ALL believers are hypocrites", despite your repeated insistence of this being the case by inference.
Nobody's buying your malarky around here, lenny, not the first time you said, it nor at any other time you've kept repeating it; saying it over-and-over ain't gonna make it so.
27
23, 18 didn't say that. He is using someone else's statistics against them. Reread the post.
The big difference between YPW, and the Adams situation is that YPW is about arrests and convictions, not just unfounded allegations.
The big difference between YPW, and the Adams situation is that YPW is about arrests and convictions, not just unfounded allegations.
29
27
What unfounded allegations?
Adams has said he kissed the kid when he was 17 and had sex when he was 18.
What unfounded allegations?
Adams has said he kissed the kid when he was 17 and had sex when he was 18.
30
I love this debate. All dan does is cut and paste from other news sources and so many people here think he is using "hypocrisy and distortion "
How exactly is it "hypocracy (sic) and distortion" when he is not adding any of his own content? There is no proselytizing or editorializing, just cut and paste. Any conclusions drawn are drawn by the reader.
How exactly is it "hypocracy (sic) and distortion" when he is not adding any of his own content? There is no proselytizing or editorializing, just cut and paste. Any conclusions drawn are drawn by the reader.
33
25, Unlike the men featured in YPW, Adams held no authority over Breedlove. Adams has not been arrested, or convicted of anything. No illegality has been shown.
34
29, The unfounded allegation were that Adams had sex with Breedlove before Breedlove was an adult. Hint: YPW is about adults having sex with minors.
35
Oh for Christ's sake. It's Dan's blog, people. If you don't like what he poosts here, don't read it. Or better yet, go start your own. Maybe somebody might even bother to read it. Until then, STFU already.
36
I'm not on the green pills @ 28, it says so right there on my chart.
God, you are one awful nurse - are you sure your license is in order?
God, you are one awful nurse - are you sure your license is in order?
37
Perhaps Dan is obsessed with the victimization of children.
He's just hiding his fetish behind a contrived fight of Christians versus Homos.
He's just hiding his fetish behind a contrived fight of Christians versus Homos.
40
@39
Console a rape victim with THAT logic.
"Cheer up. At least you weren't raped by a church-goer... Now dry those tears and go play outside."
Console a rape victim with THAT logic.
"Cheer up. At least you weren't raped by a church-goer... Now dry those tears and go play outside."
43
Lenny and others,
I skipped down from comment 10 or so, so if someone made this point already, then sorry.
These guys are the one who get caught. And it seemingly happens every day. We know crime stats show that most rapes or molestations go unreported. So the actual rate of occurrence is greater.
My kids are safe, though. We're not sending them to church.
I skipped down from comment 10 or so, so if someone made this point already, then sorry.
These guys are the one who get caught. And it seemingly happens every day. We know crime stats show that most rapes or molestations go unreported. So the actual rate of occurrence is greater.
My kids are safe, though. We're not sending them to church.
44
43
Yeah.
I keep my kids in the house.
They spend all day in chat rooms.
They meet some really nice people.
Yeah.
I keep my kids in the house.
They spend all day in chat rooms.
They meet some really nice people.
46
I don't know what point Dan is trying to prove about Christians, but what I always take from this is that a) child molesters will put themselves in positions where they can take advantage of children, b) Christian churches are too trusting of their employees, creating a vulnerable situation for those kids, and c) attention is not being cast on this problem because people tend to trust Christian ministers and don't want to believe that this is going on. All valuable stuff to think about, I'd say.
And as someone raised as a churchgoer, I can say with confidence that for all its problems, Christian churches don't somehow "create" pedophiles and predators.
And as someone raised as a churchgoer, I can say with confidence that for all its problems, Christian churches don't somehow "create" pedophiles and predators.
47
@2: Do day-care workers or clowns make million dollar fueled claims about gay parents? Yeah, didn't think so....
50
Hey Dan, you should team up with a great group known as the Freedom From Religion Foundation. They advocate on church/state separation issues and promote non-religious viewpoints, but they also keep a monthly list known as the 'Black Collar Crime Blotter'. Each month in their newsletter they fill two full-sized newspaper pages full of small print, detailing dozens if not hundreds of cases like this.
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