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News & ArtsWednesday, March 25, 2009
Olympia Senate Transpo Budget Screws Eastside Cities
Posted by Erica C. Barnett on Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 4:40 PM
The state senate transportation committee's proposed budget for 2009-2011 would delay $27 million in proposed state spending to upgrade I-90 for light rail between Seattle and the Eastside (and add HOV lanes on the outer lanes of I-90), where light rail was supposed to open between 2019 and 2021. If the legislature passes a transportation budget without that money, it would delay light rail to the Eastside to 2024 or later. Last year's Prop. 1, which passed overwhelmingly on the Eastside, includes light rail to Eastside cities no later than 2021.
Legislators say the cuts are necessary because less gas-tax money is coming in. In other words: They're cutting transit service because people are driving less. That backwards logic is typical of state legislators on the transportation committees in both houses, who've shown they'll seize on any excuse to defund Sound Transit and funnel more state dollars into highway-building projects.
"There's a lot of hostility toward Sound Transit in Olympia," says Bill LaBorde, lobbyist for the Transportation Choices Coalition. That's an understatement: This year is the first in recent memory that legislators haven't pushed legislation that would have the effect of abolishing Sound Transit entirely, probably because of its success at the ballot box in November.
The proposed budget also cuts back on commute-trip reduction programs, funding for bike and pedestrian programs, and funding for HOV lanes in Pierce County. Despite dwindling revenues, legislators did find plenty of money for megaprojects and general-purpose expansion projects like expanding I-405.
1
How can an individual who can\\\'t even 1) budget nine dollars for a bottle of wine [instead, stealing it for herself] make public comment on a twenty-seven million dollar budget?
or, maybe, the second of 2 scenarios only worse than the last,
2) Erica budgeted just fine, and instead has a shoplifting problem and/or drinking problem
It\\\'s nothing personal, you know.
The stakes are just too high in this very real environment of abuse and screw-ups to excuse your own organization\\\'s abuse and screw-ups.
they just are.
That the Stranger can just shrug them off while playing the watchdog is simply humiliating and telling.
or, maybe, the second of 2 scenarios only worse than the last,
2) Erica budgeted just fine, and instead has a shoplifting problem and/or drinking problem
It\\\'s nothing personal, you know.
The stakes are just too high in this very real environment of abuse and screw-ups to excuse your own organization\\\'s abuse and screw-ups.
they just are.
That the Stranger can just shrug them off while playing the watchdog is simply humiliating and telling.
2
It screws Seattle residents, too, many of whom commute to the Eastside or would use the reverse-peak HOV lanes that this provision would have funded.
3
Since more people, more jobs and more retail means more demand for transit, the only way to ensure transit grows to meet demand is to tax housing, payrolls and sales to fund transit.
The backward logic is to fund transit with gas consumption in the first place. Obviously the more people use transit, the less gas they buy, and the less funding there is for transit. How is their logic backward in simply being aware they have less revenue? What logic could they use to make the amount of dollars they have more than it is?
This is ECB's punitive, social engineering taxation agenda coming home to roost.
The backward logic is to fund transit with gas consumption in the first place. Obviously the more people use transit, the less gas they buy, and the less funding there is for transit. How is their logic backward in simply being aware they have less revenue? What logic could they use to make the amount of dollars they have more than it is?
This is ECB's punitive, social engineering taxation agenda coming home to roost.
4
the problem is seattle liberals have avoided the transportation committee, until they get on it with their east side pro transit fellows those committees will be dominated by rubes.
5
"The backward logic is to fund transit with gas consumption in the first place."
Are elenchos and SorryHe'sReal posting from this planet?
Are elenchos and SorryHe'sReal posting from this planet?
6
I think the reason hate on Seattle is people like @1.
That plus the reps for that area are not all Dems, so they make nice juicy targets.
That plus the reps for that area are not all Dems, so they make nice juicy targets.
7
You can't spend gas tax money on transit. According to the state constitution gas tax revenue must be used for highway purposes (which includes ferries since they are marine highways).
8
@7, wouldn't building a transit lane (or even tracks) on a highway, to benefit as well as to use the existing highway, fit the bill?
9
Max, the part of your post where you provided a justification for funding transit with driving was cut off or lost somehow. If you do it that way, then you're left hoping driving keeps pace with growth in order to allow transit to keep up. If you want transit to eclipse driving, your revenue source will shrink out from under you. Madness.
It makes perfect sense to talk about a car-free lifestyle that is independent of cars for its lifeblood.
It makes perfect sense to talk about a car-free lifestyle that is independent of cars for its lifeblood.
10
I'm going to go ahead and assume that "could delay light rail to the Eastside to 2024 or later" means "there will never be a light rail system between the Eastside and Seattle".
11
Err, enchelos, transit isn't paid for by gas taxes. I'm having problems following your rambling comments.
"You can't spend gas tax money on transit. According to the state constitution gas tax revenue must be used for highway purposes (which includes ferries since they are marine highways)."
Yeah. That's why ST has to pay tens of millions to the state for center roadway right of way. The other part of R8A is two-way bus/HOV connections across the lake, which does not exist now. And that is roadway, not transit operations. So the gas tax comment was pointless, cuyahoga.
"You can't spend gas tax money on transit. According to the state constitution gas tax revenue must be used for highway purposes (which includes ferries since they are marine highways)."
Yeah. That's why ST has to pay tens of millions to the state for center roadway right of way. The other part of R8A is two-way bus/HOV connections across the lake, which does not exist now. And that is roadway, not transit operations. So the gas tax comment was pointless, cuyahoga.
12
"The backward logic is to fund transit with gas consumption in the first place."
Are you always this confused, elenchos?
Are you always this confused, elenchos?
13
The proposed senate budget is actually very good for transit. If fully funds the regional mobility grants ($40 million). This is something completely unexpected given the half a billion dollar funding deficit for transportation. Bill LaBorde and I discussed this today and were elated. Expect the House proposal to address the I-90 issue.
14
Legislators say the cuts are necessary because less gas-tax money is coming in. In other words: They're cutting transit service because people are driving less.So. By all means explain where the funding for the HOV lanes comes from, and how all these projects they are pushing back have all the funding they need even though gas tax revenues are down.
15
The first problem is Seattle has been subsidizing the Eastside's transit forEVER.
The second problem is funding transit through gas taxes, car tabs, and property taxes is RETARDED.
The third problem is having a whine thieving, brain-dead, bike riding/walking, apartment dwelling, idiot acting as an 'expert' in finance and politics.
I have no problem with apartment dwellers but in this state you aren't paying your representative taxes if you don't pay property taxes or car tabs and you STEAL your alcohol.
The second problem is funding transit through gas taxes, car tabs, and property taxes is RETARDED.
The third problem is having a whine thieving, brain-dead, bike riding/walking, apartment dwelling, idiot acting as an 'expert' in finance and politics.
I have no problem with apartment dwellers but in this state you aren't paying your representative taxes if you don't pay property taxes or car tabs and you STEAL your alcohol.
16
elenchos: They just added $70 million to I-405 widening. You should see the project list, they just pulled in a huge amount of stimulus funding. They spent it all on highways, and gutted transit and passenger rail projects.
The list is here (the one marked Transportation Highway Projects):
http://leap.leg.wa.gov/leap/budget/leapd…
We'll see the House proposal, but I'm not hoping for much. I hope Judy Clibborn realizes that if she doesn't fund R8A, I'll be funding her opponent next year.
The list is here (the one marked Transportation Highway Projects):
http://leap.leg.wa.gov/leap/budget/leapd…
We'll see the House proposal, but I'm not hoping for much. I hope Judy Clibborn realizes that if she doesn't fund R8A, I'll be funding her opponent next year.
17
R8A will never get state funds until the price tag for the center lane is settled with ST. This is the Senate's way of putting ST on notice to negotiate the issue. As to de-funding CTR, Bike and Ped Path and transit items generally, ECB is just plain wrong. The Senate budget fully funds CTR at current levels, Bike and Ped path projects at levels promised as part of the 2005 tax vote, and regional mobility grants. Lastly, the Senate proposal fully funds I5 HOV in Pierce and the 405 projects ultimately lead to a HOT system for the entire corridor. Don't know who taught ECB to read budgets but she isn't very good at it...
18
The question is, are any of the more expensive road projects they managed to find money for holding up a funded voter approved billion dollar investment, unnecessarily costing taxpayers likely hundreds of millions in inflation?
You guys should really give this story more play than a post on Slog. Someone needs to draw attention to this.
Anyone want to bet they're just upset they weren't able to tie transit to roads, and in another year or so we'll see another RTID roads package that will fund this, and we'll be told how if we pass it we'll finally get to work on East Link?
You guys should really give this story more play than a post on Slog. Someone needs to draw attention to this.
Anyone want to bet they're just upset they weren't able to tie transit to roads, and in another year or so we'll see another RTID roads package that will fund this, and we'll be told how if we pass it we'll finally get to work on East Link?
19
"The first problem is Seattle has been subsidizing the Eastside's transit forEVER.
The second problem is funding transit through gas taxes, car tabs, and property taxes is RETARDED."
Like almost all ECB haters, ECB2GONOW got it wrong - on both counts. When mythology drives your ideology, you will almost always be wrong.
"R8A will never get state funds until the price tag for the center lane is settled with ST. This is the Senate's way of putting ST on notice to negotiate the issue."
As Ben points out at the bottom of the comment thread http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/03/25… that's total bunk, joe sixpack.
The second problem is funding transit through gas taxes, car tabs, and property taxes is RETARDED."
Like almost all ECB haters, ECB2GONOW got it wrong - on both counts. When mythology drives your ideology, you will almost always be wrong.
"R8A will never get state funds until the price tag for the center lane is settled with ST. This is the Senate's way of putting ST on notice to negotiate the issue."
As Ben points out at the bottom of the comment thread http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/03/25… that's total bunk, joe sixpack.
20
"Anyone want to bet they're just upset they weren't able to tie transit to roads, and in another year or so we'll see another RTID roads package that will fund this"
They already tried that with several bills, including HB 2282 in 2007...which was pre-loaded to restrict ST from going to the ballot in '08 without roads.
They already tried that with several bills, including HB 2282 in 2007...which was pre-loaded to restrict ST from going to the ballot in '08 without roads.
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