Find Your Valentine
Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, March 24, 2009
Homo Seattle Couple Brutally Gay Bashed in Seaside, Oregon
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 8:34 AM
The two men—both 22-year-old nursing students—were beaten unconscious while walking on a beach in Seaside.
"All of the sudden, someone asked if were gay, called us 'fags,' then started punching us," said Samson. The victims said three or four young men dressed in black attacked them, letting loose punch after punch.The attack left the two men severely injured and bruised. Kevin's right eye is so badly damaged he plans to see a plastic surgeon on Wednesday.
KOMO has the details.
1
Do we have to embargo Oregon now too Dan? I was really looking forward to visiting my parents in Portland soon.
2
"Kevin's right eye is so badly damaged he plans to see a plastic surgeon on Wednesday."
Really? It doesn't look so bad in the picture. And while getting beaten up is shitty, going to a plastic surgeon for a standard black eye seems really stupid.
Way to reinforce the stereotype that all gay men are a bunch of vain, prissy fags.
Really? It doesn't look so bad in the picture. And while getting beaten up is shitty, going to a plastic surgeon for a standard black eye seems really stupid.
Way to reinforce the stereotype that all gay men are a bunch of vain, prissy fags.
3
Dan,
During the Prop 8 rallies and protests, a cousin of mine got into a heated debate with a Mormon friend of his, who claimed that Mormons and Christians were quickly becoming targets and victims of anti-religious violent hate crimes. Have there been any substantiated reports of these kinds of incidents occurring, save the mysterious white powder sent to a church in SoCal? (What ever came of that incident?)
We know that anti-gay violence is on the rise in the Bay Area (as reported in the Mercury recently), and quite possibly due to Prop 8 residual effects, but I haven't seen much regarding anti-religious or anti-Mormon violent crimes.
Interestingly enough, my cousin and his Mormon debate partner both live in the Bay Area.
Thanks for all your posts, Dan. I miss Seattle.
Eric in Chicago
During the Prop 8 rallies and protests, a cousin of mine got into a heated debate with a Mormon friend of his, who claimed that Mormons and Christians were quickly becoming targets and victims of anti-religious violent hate crimes. Have there been any substantiated reports of these kinds of incidents occurring, save the mysterious white powder sent to a church in SoCal? (What ever came of that incident?)
We know that anti-gay violence is on the rise in the Bay Area (as reported in the Mercury recently), and quite possibly due to Prop 8 residual effects, but I haven't seen much regarding anti-religious or anti-Mormon violent crimes.
Interestingly enough, my cousin and his Mormon debate partner both live in the Bay Area.
Thanks for all your posts, Dan. I miss Seattle.
Eric in Chicago
4
more and more bashings every week.
where in seattle can one purchase a personal taser?
i have no intention of ever being caught without protection.
where in seattle can one purchase a personal taser?
i have no intention of ever being caught without protection.
5
Wow 2, Are you like Bill Frist now? You can diagnose people via photos and video? Are you a doctor? Any medical training at all?
6
I'm not qualified to diagnose the condition of his eye one way or the other by seeing one picture. What do I look like Dr. Bill Frist?
7
It may seem ridiculously Pollyanna to try and find a silver lining here, but I think it's encouraging that the media is calling this what it is, a gay bashing, right from the get-go. In years past (pre-Matthew Shepard?), this would have been reported as simply an assault, and nothing more, and the straight world would have continued in its ignorance of this horror. We see a greater awareness on the part of the (predominantly) hetero MSM today, and that's a good thing.
My solution is the same as it was before: buy handguns and get handgun training, boys. The twinkiest twink becomes quite formidable (and a very poor target for a basher) when his well-manicured index finger is on the trigger of a gun.
My solution is the same as it was before: buy handguns and get handgun training, boys. The twinkiest twink becomes quite formidable (and a very poor target for a basher) when his well-manicured index finger is on the trigger of a gun.
8
This is really, really sad. I feel so sorry for those two. I hate that this kind of thing happens and these guys may have nightmares and such from this... so I feel especially awful for finding it so cute that the nursing students kept referring to their injuries, scrapes, bruises as "trauma". This was repeated several times. "Head trauma", “my facial trauma"... it kinda made me chuckle, cause most people don't refer to their own injuries as "trauma”; it’s a medical/nursing-student term. So it made me feel even more affection for these two kids, God bless ‘em. I wish all the best to them and their recovery.
9
Seaside is a miserable place with a desperate local economy. For another gallon of gas you could stay in Manzanita, Rockaway Beach, or Cannon Beach. All prettier, smaller, and friendlier on account of their survival being entirely tourism-based.
Obviously bashings are to be condemned. I'm just not recommending Seaside as a vacation destination under any circumstances.
Obviously bashings are to be condemned. I'm just not recommending Seaside as a vacation destination under any circumstances.
10
This is heartbreaking. ENOUGH!!!!!
@1 & @2, you're pathetic. This is outrageous.
How much longer can we just stand and accept a world in which this is even a comprehensible action? Where can I put my anger?
@1 & @2, you're pathetic. This is outrageous.
How much longer can we just stand and accept a world in which this is even a comprehensible action? Where can I put my anger?
11
First off, this is terrible.
But I was wondering why gay people haven't gone around beating up breeders... I am a said 'breeder' so don't get me wrong, I don't wanna fight....and I know teh gheys don't want to draw attention negatively to themselves, but come on.
If a group of gay guys/gals went somewhere like belltown and picked a fight with some straight looking guys. Like, called them names, beat them up, etc. Yeah, you'd get an assault charge but it would be like the man bites dog story and get some serious press, draw attention to the issues of safety for gay people.
But I was wondering why gay people haven't gone around beating up breeders... I am a said 'breeder' so don't get me wrong, I don't wanna fight....and I know teh gheys don't want to draw attention negatively to themselves, but come on.
If a group of gay guys/gals went somewhere like belltown and picked a fight with some straight looking guys. Like, called them names, beat them up, etc. Yeah, you'd get an assault charge but it would be like the man bites dog story and get some serious press, draw attention to the issues of safety for gay people.
12
That makes me sick. As a straight guy, I want homos to fight back, land some punches, something. Like the dude on 12th last month. He took his licks, but he finally threw some back. You have to fight for it if there's no other option. You don't know how much I'd love to run across those guys' situation in time with my own little batch of friends. Homos have to be ready to fight back. Straight people have to be ready to support and defend.
13
What is with the uptick in these attacks? I don't watch Fox News or listen to Rush, but I wonder if there hasn't been some kind of couched-language call to arms for assholes and bigots.
14
Time to buy a semi-automatic rifle to have everytime I leave the house. Oh and my new philosophy is to shoot anyone that looks sorta homophobic!! I call it preemptive protection!!
15
3 There have been many incidents like this one:
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.ph…
But you just don't hear it because only suspected attacks on gays make news.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.ph…
But you just don't hear it because only suspected attacks on gays make news.
17
@ 14 - Panic (even sardonically expressed) and reasoned self-defense are two very different things. Look, if you're intractably brainwashed by the far left into seeing guns as evil, evil things, how about martial arts training? Or, as 4 suggested, a taser? Are those still close enough to your fluffy peace-and-love philosophy to be acceptable forms of self-defense? Or do we have to put up with another fucking candlelight vigil?
18
Folks, get ready for a LOT more of this. The worst violence of the Civil Rights era occurred in the 60s, when they were making their greatest gains. The reactionaries reacted most strongly when they're losing.
If you're gay (or in any position to be mistaken as gay), learn self defense. Capitol Hill people need to form a protection group if you aren't already organizing one.
If you're gay (or in any position to be mistaken as gay), learn self defense. Capitol Hill people need to form a protection group if you aren't already organizing one.
20
Soooo @15:
If there have been so "many incidents" like the one you linked to - why did you have to cherry-pick a two and a-half month old news item, from an obviously biased source, where the perps can't even be remotely ID'd as being gay?
Maybe the vandals just didn't like ex-Hitler Youth members, ya' think?
If you're going to play the "oooh, teh conservatives are soooo persecuted!" game, at least step up to the plate with something substantial, eh?
If there have been so "many incidents" like the one you linked to - why did you have to cherry-pick a two and a-half month old news item, from an obviously biased source, where the perps can't even be remotely ID'd as being gay?
Maybe the vandals just didn't like ex-Hitler Youth members, ya' think?
If you're going to play the "oooh, teh conservatives are soooo persecuted!" game, at least step up to the plate with something substantial, eh?
21
Loveschild, how do you feel about individual gay people arming themselves against assaults like this? Seems like that fits right in with that conservative spirit of individualism and personal responsibility and an unwillingness to whine to the govt. for help. But then, you probably think that this should be a wake-up call to these two young men to reject the hoe-moe-sekshul lifestyle. I'll tell ya, you're a hoot. And you probably hit Basic Plumbing at least once a week...
22
My family used to vacation in Seaside before I was a teenager. Never thought much of the sleepy, arcade-studded town back then and it certainly seemed safe.
However, on a recent trip down to the Oregon coast one spring break, I decided to stop in Seaside and check out the changes. Holy shit! There were packs of roving, drunk, obnoxious college boys all over the place. Beer bottles were being thrown, people were vomiting between parked cars, pushing and shoving. There was lots of aggression and picking on the young girls. I hightailed it out 30 minutes later and decided Seaside was best left to my childhood.
This attack is monstrous and I'm not surprised it occurred at this place and time.
However, on a recent trip down to the Oregon coast one spring break, I decided to stop in Seaside and check out the changes. Holy shit! There were packs of roving, drunk, obnoxious college boys all over the place. Beer bottles were being thrown, people were vomiting between parked cars, pushing and shoving. There was lots of aggression and picking on the young girls. I hightailed it out 30 minutes later and decided Seaside was best left to my childhood.
This attack is monstrous and I'm not surprised it occurred at this place and time.
23
11 - Im down. What night? Belltown? Lets do it. This is outrageous. I love my str8s but this has got to stop. I wanna fight. Lil punk breeders go around picking on the cute lil twink med students.... F that! Those het guys wanna be men? Come pick fights with us muscle queens, gym bunny homos, and jock bois. Well beat the livin F outa you. I have some pretty lil twink friends we can use as bait. Whats it going to look like when your face looks like mush from a bunch of mos. I know this isnt the way to solve things but it seems like every other day now i read something about some GB gettin bashed. Enough i say! Time to fight back.
24
Loveschild,
These two situations do not compare. Suspected vandalism of a church by gays, is not the same as beating two humans.
These two situations do not compare. Suspected vandalism of a church by gays, is not the same as beating two humans.
27
I'm a 280# 6'3" gym-hopping southerner who's scrapped with gay bashers before and never once lost-- where do I sign up for the protection patrol?
28
19 Did you read the story? People have been attacked by gays both verbally and physically, including African Americans. Which by the way completely shreds to pieces the inflammatory comment you made at 18 by comparing it with the legitimate Civil Rights struggle of the sixties. In other words your gay counterparts in Cali are attacking the children, grandchildren and great grandchildren of the Civil Rights struggle. Think before you try to draw such stupid unrelated comparisons.
29
@20 - Ending every paragraph with a question doesn't make it rhetorically correct. It's a cheap and easy way to make the reader draw your conclusion. But I guess that's what you were going for, right????
32
Here's how you do it, people. Check out the story of this badass:
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cr…
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cr…
A man who was roughed up by a group of young men in Solstice Park on Saturday didn't back down despite being outnumbered, according to a police report.
33
I think it is time to start a patrol again. I heard there used to be one in cap hill. Seems like the times are sayin its about time to reinstate one. Our fellow mos are gettin hurt boys! Its time for us bigger rough and tumble men to step and protect our friends who can not protect themselves. Im no organizer though. Someone with the experience or know how to run this stuff... we need ya!
34
@ 28, I read your article and found vague and unconfirmed anecdotes about verbal abuse, not specific incidents of violence committed against Catholics, Mormons, blacks, or other presumed supporters of Prop 8. Your willingness to believe that out of hand, and also to elevate it to the same level to this real incidence of violence that you in no way condemn, speaks volumes about you.
The gay rights struggle is only unrighteous to the homophobes, just as the Civil Rights struggle was unrighteous only to the racists.
The gay rights struggle is only unrighteous to the homophobes, just as the Civil Rights struggle was unrighteous only to the racists.
35
I'm gearing up for your Mayoral campaign Dan. I've created a nice flyer to staple around town. It has a photo of you off Google and tear offs on the bottom with tinyurl links to some of your best stuff.
I need to know Dan--what color will be the theme of your campaign so I can use that for the flyers?
I need to know Dan--what color will be the theme of your campaign so I can use that for the flyers?
36
Also @ 28, just so you know, I don't condone in any way the actions (vague and unconfirmed as they are) reported in your linked article. Nor do I condone any vandalism. But let's remember that vandalism and verbal abuse are not physical violence, and that physical violence is much, much worse than either.
Will you condemn this gay bashing?
Will you condemn this gay bashing?
37
Loveschild, I read the story. One outdated story about an attack on one building which church authorities and police suspect was carried out by gay people.
If that's all you've got, you've got nothing to substantiate your claims to victimhood.
If that's all you've got, you've got nothing to substantiate your claims to victimhood.
39
Oh Loveschild, once again you come off as confused, and befuddled. Let's put aside that your story is from a biased source, and is non-specific, are you actually arguing that the beating of gay people is somehow justified? Really?
40
34 Attacks on African Americans for supporting the true definition of marriage:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/nov…
And please, don't think this is not still happening. The African American community has just wise up on gay antics and unlike gays are not always whining about the real hardships and violence we face.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/nov…
And please, don't think this is not still happening. The African American community has just wise up on gay antics and unlike gays are not always whining about the real hardships and violence we face.
41
@28 cry me a river, I've been gay bashed 3 times by one of those "Civil Rights grandchildren," as was the Ecuadorian immigrant in New York.
It wasn't even necessary to go there, Loveschild. Any decent human being would regret and condemn these attacks.You could have left it at that.
It wasn't even necessary to go there, Loveschild. Any decent human being would regret and condemn these attacks.You could have left it at that.
42
@ 40, I no more accept that story as legitimate than I would expect you to accept a story from the Seattle Gay News as legit. FAIL.
BUT, just to show I'm fair, let's take it at face value for a second. Are you still saying that verbal abuse is the same as brutal physical assault? Are you going to condemn this gay bashing?
BUT, just to show I'm fair, let's take it at face value for a second. Are you still saying that verbal abuse is the same as brutal physical assault? Are you going to condemn this gay bashing?
44
Loveschild again pulling articles from 4 months ago of people calling people names. OH golly the horror!!! Yes name calling is bad but to compare that to two GBs getting beat unconsious..... i cant even begin to show how utterly stupid this is.
Lovechild is a SLOG Troll. We need to quit feeding it. It doesnt add anything, even a legit argument to the other side of the debate. EVER. Now if there is someone out there for the other side of the argument please step forward. This troll is giving you a really bad rep.
Lovechild is a SLOG Troll. We need to quit feeding it. It doesnt add anything, even a legit argument to the other side of the debate. EVER. Now if there is someone out there for the other side of the argument please step forward. This troll is giving you a really bad rep.
45
Oh dear sweet Loveschild, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, bless your li'l ol' heart, do you ever tire of being wrong?
Do you have any real news stories? Again, lets say there was some name calling of prop 8 supporters, why do you feel as though that justifies this physical attack on gay people?
Do you have any real news stories? Again, lets say there was some name calling of prop 8 supporters, why do you feel as though that justifies this physical attack on gay people?
46
@ 40,
Thanks for the link. One sided reporting from an agenda biased source weakens its argument. No, I don't condone calling people names, vandelizing property, or bashing people for any reason.
Thanks for the link. One sided reporting from an agenda biased source weakens its argument. No, I don't condone calling people names, vandelizing property, or bashing people for any reason.
47
@30: elenchos, I don't drive and I have a severe vision deficiency (thanks, lack of safety protocol in southern gym classes!!), but I could totally just stand around looking menacing. I did it at the biker bar my very-glittery friend tended bar at.
I think "threat of physical defense" is a suitable deterrent. If it isn't, perhaps you'll all look the other way while I physically "defend" the community against a gay basher. Social service.
I think "threat of physical defense" is a suitable deterrent. If it isn't, perhaps you'll all look the other way while I physically "defend" the community against a gay basher. Social service.
49
(Severe meaning poor vision in one eye I use as an excuse when asked to do anything that requires good vision, like proofreading or painting houses)
@38: I do hope you all appreciate the kindness of strangers, even if I'm dragging a guy up to the cop shop by his scruff.
@38: I do hope you all appreciate the kindness of strangers, even if I'm dragging a guy up to the cop shop by his scruff.
50
42 How do you really know they were attack for being gay? Homosexuality is not some trait you can identify on other when on the streets. The truth is you can't really know. For all we know they could've been involved in some gangs or in illicit drug trafficking or prostitution or this could've been something done by other gays to them. The thing is this sort of violent acts have been happening to all Seattlelites and it just seems that all this could easily boil down to a few taking advantage of the spike in violent acts to further their own agendas and trying to play on the emotions of some. Not saying this is necessarily the case here but it's a possibility and until the police thoroughly investigate the incident, I'm not going to rush into conclusions.
51
48 - I dont know you tell me! If your on the other side of this debate then you should know! Tell me why the fags got what they deserve? Why we are vandals and hooligans and evil queers looking to form something along the lines of MaryKKK? Why I dont deserve the same civil benefits as my str8 neighbor? Enlighten me oh great opponent! Show me why im wrong!
53
@ 50, the rule is, take the report at face value and make a comment based on that. The victims told the police that they were walking down the beach, approached by a larger group who called them "fags" and beat them up.
Your willingness to "wait for all the facts" (which will have to wait until arrests are made, which is unlikely given that it happened in the dark so the victims probably couldn't give a good description to the police) contrasts with your willingness to take a couple of biased reports at face value, with no other facts to back them up.
I'll leave it to others to take the rest of your post apart.
Now, for the last time, do you condemn violence against gays by those who do not accept the gay lifestyle? Let's set this particular example aside and just put it in the abstract. Can you do that?
Your willingness to "wait for all the facts" (which will have to wait until arrests are made, which is unlikely given that it happened in the dark so the victims probably couldn't give a good description to the police) contrasts with your willingness to take a couple of biased reports at face value, with no other facts to back them up.
I'll leave it to others to take the rest of your post apart.
Now, for the last time, do you condemn violence against gays by those who do not accept the gay lifestyle? Let's set this particular example aside and just put it in the abstract. Can you do that?
54
Oh dear sweet Loves child, Christ on a cross, bless your li'l ol' heart. Did you even read the story? Why do you feel it's okay for gay people to be attacked, beaten, and killed?
55
@50, how do you know those churches were vandalized by gay people? How do you even know if they were vandalized at all until you "wait for all the facts"? It could have been "gangs or in illicit drug trafficking or prostitution or this could've been something done by other" rival church groups. Until we know for sure, we shouldn't rush to any conclusions.
56
@51 I mean, I am highly resentful Loveschild chooses to represent African Americans. This bitch wouldn't blink an eye if I were gay bashed.
I mean, I am not your opponent, Topher I am just a gay black person that lives in Chicagoland (who'd glad they got rid of those horrid bridezilla parties in Boystown, y'all should look at the fucking hot mess the Trib comments section is) who's wondering what the fuck is going on?
I mean, I am not your opponent, Topher I am just a gay black person that lives in Chicagoland (who'd glad they got rid of those horrid bridezilla parties in Boystown, y'all should look at the fucking hot mess the Trib comments section is) who's wondering what the fuck is going on?
58
Home Alive used to offer self-defense classes. I bet if there were a surge of interest and donations, they'd be able to organize them again.
http://www.homealive.org/
I have no connection to them, but it makes sense. People are worried about personal safety, and they've been teaching that very thing for years. It'd be a shame to let that resource go away.
http://www.homealive.org/
I have no connection to them, but it makes sense. People are worried about personal safety, and they've been teaching that very thing for years. It'd be a shame to let that resource go away.
59
53 A violent act happened, I'm not disputing that. I'm going to believe the authorities on that. But I'm reserving my condemnation in terms of the labeling of this incident as a hate crime against gays (unless proven otherwise ), since proving that unless there are witnesses is always something complicated for the reason I explained above. You're trying to make it seem like I'm the one unwilling to recognize a violent act when in reality you have repeatedly refused to acknowledge the violence gays have committed against people of faith and minorities. I don't care if you want to hump an elephant, if someone wants to physically assault you for that then I find it unacceptable. You on the other hand seem too eager to toss aside the cases of assaults caused by gays.
60
And from the P-I's article on this incident, we have un-moderated bigotry fueling the fire in their comments section. Way to go, "new" P-I...
Posted by unregistered user at 3/24/09 9:59 a.m.
they aren't MEN, they are WIMP FACED FA GGOTS who have no right to breath the air of the good people of Oregon. Let them suffer AIDS and their own behest, and suffer from years of butt fu king from Bubba in Prison. They should be arrested for public indecency merely for existing.
Good riddance, and all hail the fine people of Seaside for ridding themselves of the fa ggots!
Posted by unregistered user at 3/24/09 9:59 a.m.
they aren't MEN, they are WIMP FACED FA GGOTS who have no right to breath the air of the good people of Oregon. Let them suffer AIDS and their own behest, and suffer from years of butt fu king from Bubba in Prison. They should be arrested for public indecency merely for existing.
Good riddance, and all hail the fine people of Seaside for ridding themselves of the fa ggots!
61
@ 59, reread my posts. I have repeatedly condemned any real acts of violence, verbal abuse, and vandalism committed by gays against Prop 8 supporters. Go on. They're there on this very thread.
I question that there have been "widespread" incidents (especially of violence, since the only claim is from a suspect source rather than a police agency). That's a legitimate question since no MSM sources are reporting on it. (And the rule is to accept MSM reports as the most neutral news sources.) I will condemn any actual instance if you can find me a report from a source that I can accept. And I want you to keep in mind my Seattle Gay News comment above when you assess what would be a fair news source.
Now, I gave you an out on this particular instance. Do you condemn violence against gays? That is, violence committed against gays that are motivated only by the fact that the victims are (or were perceived to by) gay?
I question that there have been "widespread" incidents (especially of violence, since the only claim is from a suspect source rather than a police agency). That's a legitimate question since no MSM sources are reporting on it. (And the rule is to accept MSM reports as the most neutral news sources.) I will condemn any actual instance if you can find me a report from a source that I can accept. And I want you to keep in mind my Seattle Gay News comment above when you assess what would be a fair news source.
Now, I gave you an out on this particular instance. Do you condemn violence against gays? That is, violence committed against gays that are motivated only by the fact that the victims are (or were perceived to by) gay?
62
Verbal violence, Loveschild? I'll allow you that, I do that shit all the damn time. It comes with the territory of being a gay man, I guess.
I can't count the number of times I've been called faggot walking down the street and, yes, a few of those times happened near Broadway and Belmont here in Chicago, where one would think it wouldn't happen.
Physical violence is a whole other level of shit. And many gay bashings DON'T get reported, quite frankly.
I can't count the number of times I've been called faggot walking down the street and, yes, a few of those times happened near Broadway and Belmont here in Chicago, where one would think it wouldn't happen.
Physical violence is a whole other level of shit. And many gay bashings DON'T get reported, quite frankly.
63
Oh Loveschild, Baby Jesus, bless your li'l ol' heart. You have yet to provide anything to back up your claims, and you obviously didn't read the story.
Why do you think it's okay for gay people to be attacked, beaten, and killed?
"All of the sudden, someone asked if were gay, called us 'fags,' then started punching us," said Samson.
Why do you think it's okay for gay people to be attacked, beaten, and killed?
64
"The thing is this sort of violent acts have been happening to all Seattlelites and it just seems that all this could easily boil down to a few taking advantage of the spike in violent acts to further their own agendas and trying to play on the emotions of some. "
Like supposed Christians shrieking on and on about gays attacking and persecuting churches and minorities? What the Hutch?
I'm starting a pool to open a "Wild Cats of the Serengetti" petting zoo at Qwest field for the exclusive use of the churched defenders of true marriage -- who's with me?
Like supposed Christians shrieking on and on about gays attacking and persecuting churches and minorities? What the Hutch?
I'm starting a pool to open a "Wild Cats of the Serengetti" petting zoo at Qwest field for the exclusive use of the churched defenders of true marriage -- who's with me?
65
@ 59,
You were unable to prove, using the the two links, your point. Your articles share the same flaws that you codemn this post for. I don't think anyone here doubts that some gays have harassed,taunted people of faith or minorities. We asked you for proof of your point via legitimate sources, which you failed to provide.
You were unable to prove, using the the two links, your point. Your articles share the same flaws that you codemn this post for. I don't think anyone here doubts that some gays have harassed,taunted people of faith or minorities. We asked you for proof of your point via legitimate sources, which you failed to provide.
67
But kim, you can't tell someone is gay outwardly, so how can we even know these were really gay people attacking True Christian Defenders?
68
@ 59,
The fact that the article reports that the two young men were asked about their sexual orientation before the attack, suggests that this was indeed a hate crime.
The fact that the article reports that the two young men were asked about their sexual orientation before the attack, suggests that this was indeed a hate crime.
69
@60 - Update: The P-I responded quickly to a complaint about the hate-spewn comments and turned off the comments for this article altogether. Thanks P-I.
70
Baconcat,
That was my point. Her articles didn't have facts, outside witnesses, and convictions to back them up. Sorry, if that didn't come across.
By the way, who are the True Christian Defenders? I'm a Christian and I have never heard of these people.
That was my point. Her articles didn't have facts, outside witnesses, and convictions to back them up. Sorry, if that didn't come across.
By the way, who are the True Christian Defenders? I'm a Christian and I have never heard of these people.
71
@70: Anyone who has a "MARRIAGE = ONE MAN, ONE WOMAN" bumper sticker.
My grandmother is the sort, but her mother, an annnnnnncient native woman (97 and scrappy) who still thinks god lives behind the sun and jesus was native has been taking her to task for daring to tell people who to marry if they're old enough and capable enough to make the decision.
Interesting people. They're the sort that reply to you telling them that you had to hurl someone into a dumpster for punching you (weakly, ha) in the back of the head while calling you a "fag" with "oh, that's a message from god".
Those people.
My grandmother is the sort, but her mother, an annnnnnncient native woman (97 and scrappy) who still thinks god lives behind the sun and jesus was native has been taking her to task for daring to tell people who to marry if they're old enough and capable enough to make the decision.
Interesting people. They're the sort that reply to you telling them that you had to hurl someone into a dumpster for punching you (weakly, ha) in the back of the head while calling you a "fag" with "oh, that's a message from god".
Those people.
72
Loveschild,
I'm going to take your silence as an admission of defeat. I have to get stuff done now so I won't be here to get you to clarify your position. Bye for now.
I'm going to take your silence as an admission of defeat. I have to get stuff done now so I won't be here to get you to clarify your position. Bye for now.
73
Thanks Baconcat,
I do know some of those people, didn't know the name, annoying as hell and wrong.
I do know some of those people, didn't know the name, annoying as hell and wrong.
74
15 - that article doesn't even make sense. A gay-friendly church that opposed Prop 8 gets vandalized, and they think gays did it? Even with no proof? Uh, I don't think so. The only logical conclusion is that some religious zealots didn't like that church's stance and vandalized them, but I wouldn't expect you or the Catholic News Agency to figure that out.
75
50 - Funny, you said you wouldn't "rush to conclusions" until the police do their job, but the article you linked to at 15 was still under investigation and both you and the CNA used it as absolute proof of gays attacking people. Nice double standard.
76
61 The lack of reporting of gay attacks on minority groups maybe due to the lack of trust issue these communities have when it comes to the police. That coupled with a perceived bias on the part of the police for gays might be keeping the African American community to choose to deal with the incidents by themselves. But when it comes to the larger attacks on people of faith in general there are not shortage of reporting. There have been not only reported cases of vandalism but also of disrupting of services and physical threats on clergy members on both Catholic and Mormon temples.
I see no use in giving you links to those reports since you're going to dismiss them out of hand but they're out there if you look for them.
I see no use in giving you links to those reports since you're going to dismiss them out of hand but they're out there if you look for them.
77
And the particular (and tragic) incident mentioned at @40 occured at a No On 8 rally. Those AAs were for marriage equality and not "the traditional definition of marriage." That was the real tragedy of episode.
78
@ 76, I couldn't stay away...
Go on, provide the links. It's a copout not to, unless you know that they're from biased rather than real news sources. If you reflected on what I said about whether you'd take a Seattle Gay News report at face value, you know what reports we will accept and what we won't.
BTW, if you think gays have historically had it any easier with the police, you really have stretched beyond the bounds of credibility.
Go on, provide the links. It's a copout not to, unless you know that they're from biased rather than real news sources. If you reflected on what I said about whether you'd take a Seattle Gay News report at face value, you know what reports we will accept and what we won't.
BTW, if you think gays have historically had it any easier with the police, you really have stretched beyond the bounds of credibility.
80
@76. Prove it.
I mean, I've been to Boystown quite a few times since November 4, 2008 and I've never been attacked verbally or physically without my consent.
I mean, I've been to Boystown quite a few times since November 4, 2008 and I've never been attacked verbally or physically without my consent.
82
Dear sweet Loveschild, again, do you have anything, other than unprovable, made up theories concocted in your head? Anything? We provide statistics, news stories from credible outlets, you make stuff up. I find it very telling that you can't seem to answer my, or anyone else's questions.
83
@ Everyone telling us to arm ourselves:
I shot a gun once (6X-a clip or whatever). I hated it. I tried to have an open mind. Maybe if I'd kept going, and eventually hit the target, I'd have thought it was fun. But there's no way I'm going to arm myself. Even mace can be turned against you, if you're not fully prepared to use it. Plus, I'm a pacifist. I would fight back (nonlethally) I guess, but I've never been in a fight, never punched anyone. That's why I don't bitch about my taxes being used on things like the police, because keeping the peace is their job.
I rely on being a girl to not get beat up. So far, most the hate crimes are against perceived gay men. I also rely on being 5'10". And quiet enough to appear scary in that strong, silent way. Apparently.
This will become even bigger news when it starts happening to non-gays, who "look" gay. Not all the boys called sissy in school end up gay.
I shot a gun once (6X-a clip or whatever). I hated it. I tried to have an open mind. Maybe if I'd kept going, and eventually hit the target, I'd have thought it was fun. But there's no way I'm going to arm myself. Even mace can be turned against you, if you're not fully prepared to use it. Plus, I'm a pacifist. I would fight back (nonlethally) I guess, but I've never been in a fight, never punched anyone. That's why I don't bitch about my taxes being used on things like the police, because keeping the peace is their job.
I rely on being a girl to not get beat up. So far, most the hate crimes are against perceived gay men. I also rely on being 5'10". And quiet enough to appear scary in that strong, silent way. Apparently.
This will become even bigger news when it starts happening to non-gays, who "look" gay. Not all the boys called sissy in school end up gay.
84
Loveschild just has to believe that gay people deserve the punishment they get. That's why he keeps grasping at straws, misprepresenting facts, and inventing strange hypotheses to conform to his prejudices, e.g. black people get attacked by gays all the time but they don't report it because they're intimidated by gay-friendly cops! It's sort of like how young-earth creationists contort themselves into believing wacky shit like Satan planted phony dinosaur bones in the ground and invented carbon dating as a sneaky way to get us humans to doubt the literal truth of the Bible. Except that creationists can be mocked and laughed at, they'll never hurt anyone except their home-schooled kids. But the homophobic hatred that people like Loveschild cling to is the root cause of gay people getting shunned, beaten up, murdered, and driven to suicide EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY. Fuck off, Loveschild.
85
Cheers John T. Well spoken. I find it ironic that loveschild doesnt want to "come to conclusions" about and obvious hate crime, but is sure quick to offer its own extraordinary insight as to gays bashing blacks and it not being reported..... LMFAO i cant even type that with out laughing at the hypocrisy.
86
I'm starting to think the upcoming Cthulhu festival in Oregon is causing certain strange and bizarre behaviours amongst the ocean-side people of the state.
Check for webbed fingers.
Check for webbed fingers.
87
I am on I-5 and some guy in a pickup just cut me off. I am calling 911 to report his tag number for gay bashing.
88
Sob! It is heartbreaking there are so few safe spaces in this world.
@18 It is interesting to think that things are getting worse now because we are "winning" We'd better be fucking winning.
@18 It is interesting to think that things are getting worse now because we are "winning" We'd better be fucking winning.
89
@ 88, the homophobes aren't going to give up without a fight, any more than the white supremacists did. That's the unfortunate truth.
91
People, people. Loveschild is just pointing out that the lack of reports of gays attacking church ladies is, in itself, proof positive that these attacks occur.
How can you argue with that? You can't, because it is INSANE.
I had a good time in Seaside once, a long, long time ago. It helps that I like a good game of skeeball. It used to be just about the only proper seaside amusement town in the northwest. I'm sorry to hear what it has become.
How can you argue with that? You can't, because it is INSANE.
I had a good time in Seaside once, a long, long time ago. It helps that I like a good game of skeeball. It used to be just about the only proper seaside amusement town in the northwest. I'm sorry to hear what it has become.
92
@ 92, It's entertaining to see how she keeps moving the goalposts around, even when you try to meet her on her terms.
94
#91 Matt from Denver - have you ever lived in Seattle?
Are you following closely the reports in ALL media, including many excellent reports in SGN about all the violence? What is your rub? Facts are facts, complete with pictures of bruised faces and first hand interviews and police responses.
Who cares about claims from the far right kooks that they suffer some kind of horrible treatment - not true at all. We all know that, they know that. It is propaganda of the first degree to change the topic.
Something has changed in Seattle, it is not good news. The reported violence and slurs and sense of danger is big time on the rise. Many years went by with almost none of the above. There was so little it was just not in the air at all.
Why the abrupt change and what the responses are the burning questions of the moment in Seattle GLBT conversations.
Are you following closely the reports in ALL media, including many excellent reports in SGN about all the violence? What is your rub? Facts are facts, complete with pictures of bruised faces and first hand interviews and police responses.
Who cares about claims from the far right kooks that they suffer some kind of horrible treatment - not true at all. We all know that, they know that. It is propaganda of the first degree to change the topic.
Something has changed in Seattle, it is not good news. The reported violence and slurs and sense of danger is big time on the rise. Many years went by with almost none of the above. There was so little it was just not in the air at all.
Why the abrupt change and what the responses are the burning questions of the moment in Seattle GLBT conversations.
95
94
Something has changed in Seattle?
The bankrupt Welfare State is collapsing.
The Big Tent can't accommodate everyone anymore, some folks are getting shoved out, some are going to be eaten when things get a little more desperate.
What color are Seattle's gay bashers?
Are they fellow Democrats?
You waste your time on slog with mental masturbation parlor games bashing Rush and the AFA and don't notice that your world is crumbling around you.
Yes.
Something has changed in Seattle.
Keep your eyes focused on . . . .
gay marriage?
You won't even see what hit you.
Something has changed in Seattle?
The bankrupt Welfare State is collapsing.
The Big Tent can't accommodate everyone anymore, some folks are getting shoved out, some are going to be eaten when things get a little more desperate.
What color are Seattle's gay bashers?
Are they fellow Democrats?
You waste your time on slog with mental masturbation parlor games bashing Rush and the AFA and don't notice that your world is crumbling around you.
Yes.
Something has changed in Seattle.
Keep your eyes focused on . . . .
gay marriage?
You won't even see what hit you.
99
@ Loveschild: I delurked just for you! So, I googled "gay attacks on churches" and came up with the attack on Mt. Hope, where gay anarchists assaulted the congregation... with glitter. OH NO. NOT GLITTER! Oh help! The humanity! OK - so it wasn't just glitter. There were also condoms and kissing. And a banner! Yikes. Unfortunately, the fire alarms were pulled, of which I do not approve.
The first six hits were about the incident at Mt. Hope.
The next was about a man who open-fired on a church for "harboring gays and multiracial families."
All following hits were about violence against gays, not by them.
When I tried to find anything on gays attacking straights, a few articles about name-calling (breeder) came up. Most hits were about gay-bashing.
A lot of churches preach against homosexuality. Being victimized hurts. Gay people are hurting, and a lot of them are crying out against their attackers - these are people who are despairing.
No one calls straight people, across the board, a blight on the earth. No one thinks it's socially acceptable to broadcast feelings of hatred or disgust against all straight people. It's socially acceptable in a large portion of this country to hate gay people. That is absolutely not right! How could it be? How could hate be right? And a lot of the people cheering their hatred ARE Christians, and they're using their religion as the vessel for their hatred. How could they do that? How could they turn something that's supposed to be peaceful and joyful and loving into something so ugly?
And frankly, trying to claim that Christian groups are just as persecuted as gay people, from this married white woman's perspective, smacks of the old "well, people are racist against whites, too!" Maybe people are racist against whites, too - but generally, a white person is still going to benefit from his or her whiteness by being afforded more opportunities (socially, economically, educationally) than someone of another race. So the white racism thing doesn't hold water.
Likewise, straight people are afforded the safety of probably never getting beaten to a pulp for loving their significant others because of his or her gender. I can kiss my husband at a restaurant when we're out for our anniversary. I can hold his hand whenever I want. I can hug him hello and goodbye and tell him I love him, and I never have to worry about anyone hurting me (or him) for these simple acts.
The appropriate response to an attack like this one is never, "BUT BUT BUT!"
It's "all people have a right to be safe, no matter what." The appropriate response is sadness and anger and empathy.
You claim to be religious. Read the parable of the Good Samaritan again. I think you missed the lesson.
(And I really am sorry that the Mt. Hope service was interrupted, mostly because fire alarms were pulled and that can cause property damage if they make the sprinkler system come on - and that, also, is not acceptable.)
More...
The first six hits were about the incident at Mt. Hope.
The next was about a man who open-fired on a church for "harboring gays and multiracial families."
All following hits were about violence against gays, not by them.
When I tried to find anything on gays attacking straights, a few articles about name-calling (breeder) came up. Most hits were about gay-bashing.
A lot of churches preach against homosexuality. Being victimized hurts. Gay people are hurting, and a lot of them are crying out against their attackers - these are people who are despairing.
No one calls straight people, across the board, a blight on the earth. No one thinks it's socially acceptable to broadcast feelings of hatred or disgust against all straight people. It's socially acceptable in a large portion of this country to hate gay people. That is absolutely not right! How could it be? How could hate be right? And a lot of the people cheering their hatred ARE Christians, and they're using their religion as the vessel for their hatred. How could they do that? How could they turn something that's supposed to be peaceful and joyful and loving into something so ugly?
And frankly, trying to claim that Christian groups are just as persecuted as gay people, from this married white woman's perspective, smacks of the old "well, people are racist against whites, too!" Maybe people are racist against whites, too - but generally, a white person is still going to benefit from his or her whiteness by being afforded more opportunities (socially, economically, educationally) than someone of another race. So the white racism thing doesn't hold water.
Likewise, straight people are afforded the safety of probably never getting beaten to a pulp for loving their significant others because of his or her gender. I can kiss my husband at a restaurant when we're out for our anniversary. I can hold his hand whenever I want. I can hug him hello and goodbye and tell him I love him, and I never have to worry about anyone hurting me (or him) for these simple acts.
The appropriate response to an attack like this one is never, "BUT BUT BUT!"
It's "all people have a right to be safe, no matter what." The appropriate response is sadness and anger and empathy.
You claim to be religious. Read the parable of the Good Samaritan again. I think you missed the lesson.
(And I really am sorry that the Mt. Hope service was interrupted, mostly because fire alarms were pulled and that can cause property damage if they make the sprinkler system come on - and that, also, is not acceptable.)
100
@ 94, I lived in Seattle from 1997 - 2005. I chose my handle back when I was still in town - Matt FROM Denver, not Matt IN Denver, as everyone else who uses this kind of name. I'm back in Denver now, but yes, I lived in Seattle.
My point in using SGN is that someone like Loveschild would dismiss any report from that source out of hand as biased. Just like a lot of people here dismissed her link to the Catholic Register about the SF church being vandalized.
I meant no slight to the SGN. I was trying to inform Loveschild that she'd be on better footing about all the supposed gay-on-Prop-8-supporter violence if she could provide links from sources we can all agree on.
Now, I did this because I enjoy taking on kooks on their own terms and watching them shift around because, even on their own terms, they're fucked and deep down they know this. That's why she couldn't even just say that gays shouldn't be attacked for being gay like I challenged her.
My point in using SGN is that someone like Loveschild would dismiss any report from that source out of hand as biased. Just like a lot of people here dismissed her link to the Catholic Register about the SF church being vandalized.
I meant no slight to the SGN. I was trying to inform Loveschild that she'd be on better footing about all the supposed gay-on-Prop-8-supporter violence if she could provide links from sources we can all agree on.
Now, I did this because I enjoy taking on kooks on their own terms and watching them shift around because, even on their own terms, they're fucked and deep down they know this. That's why she couldn't even just say that gays shouldn't be attacked for being gay like I challenged her.
102
Oh Dan! Ohhhhhh Dan! I am so excited about your mayoral campaign. I've been combing the Slog archives for your best writings. I want the citizens of Seattle to know the real Dan Savage. Compassionate, thoughtful, empathetic, generous, OH Dan!!! I can hardly wait for the campaign to begin. I'll be there for you Dan. I'll be there for you every day promoting your past musings on matters large and small to the citizens of Seattle.
Must I report my expenditures to your campaign if we don't collude on the message?
Must I report my expenditures to your campaign if we don't collude on the message?
104
I am sitting on the bus and some guy in a cowboy hat sitting next to me just ripped a fart in my direction. I am calling 911 to report this gay bashing.
106
A friend of mine got brutally beaten up in Seaside at a bar a couple years back. He was visiting from Portland (a city slicker, uh-oh). And this guy is a nice, mellow dude who I can't imagine picking a fight.
So.. is Seaside just a town full of fuckers or what? Here's how they can be caught: 2 male Seaside cops, undercover, walking down the beach at night, hand in hand, armed. They should do this every so often until the town is rid of this trash
So.. is Seaside just a town full of fuckers or what? Here's how they can be caught: 2 male Seaside cops, undercover, walking down the beach at night, hand in hand, armed. They should do this every so often until the town is rid of this trash
107
Hey more vidio games and Tv shows- show us violence is acceptable. Now the down turn in the eccomony prevents the Jocks from buying new Mustangs and Pickups. So Find someone to pick on , Bust a few heads and if your caught its not your fault. After all they looked like Arabs and your not an ulgy american. Besides your parents will bail you out.
108
I detest this sort of criminal behavior wherever it occurs. However, as it has now occurred in my own home town of Seaside, Oregon, I am even more repulsed. Punks are punks no matter the area they reside or hang out in, especially during Spring Break. I have no idea if the unfortunate retards that committed this horrible and unwarranted crime are residents or visitors but I do know their time will also come. Seaside is a good and growing community though not without its faults. Gay bashing or any other cannot and will not be tolerated here. I pray for both individuals recovery in full and hope the rest of the world wakes up and realizes we are all related in one way or another.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
SL Letter of the Day: Pill The Homos! by Dan Savage
-
The AP Is Reporting That Whitney Houston Is Dead by Paul Constant
-
Slog Bible Study: Deuteronomy 21:10-14 by Goldy
-
Because Guns Make Us Safer by Goldy
-
SL Letter of the Day: Daddy Loves Who? by Dan Savage
-
Gregoire: "This is signed!" by Eli Sanders
-
Gay Kids Are Still Killing Themselves by Dan Savage
-
Whitney Is Dead, And So Is Hollywood by Kelly O
-
Planned Parenthood Exposed! by David Schmader
-
Stranger Tournament of Dunces, Match 3: Rep. Mark Hargrove vs. Rep. Norma Smith by Eli Sanders
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (108) RSS