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News & ArtsMonday, March 23, 2009
Homo They're Losing
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 9:01 AM
Even in North Carolina:
Half of the respondents to the latest Elon University public opinion poll would oppose an amendment to the state constitution banning same-sex marriages. Forty-three percent support a constitutional ban, the poll of 620 state residents found. The poll had a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points.On the broader topic of same-sex marriage, 44 percent opposed any legal recognition for same-sex couples, while 28 percent support civil unions but not full marriage rights. Twenty-one percent support full marriage rights.
A solid majority of voters in North Carolina—North Carolina—support full marriage rights legal recognition for same-sex couples that include all the rights of marriage. That racket you hear right now is the sound of bricks being shat at Christian "pro-family" organizations across the country.
UPDATE: It's always risking tossing up a Slog post when you're half asleep and about to get on on an airplane and you can't amend or defend your post for hours and hours. Yes, commenters, I'm aware that the poll doesn't show a majority in North Carolina backing marriage equality for same-sex couples. What it shows is a majority backing marriage rights for same-sex couples; not the right to marry, but the rights of marriage. 28 percent for civil unions + 21 percent for full marriage rights = 49 percent for the rights of marriage for same-sex couples vs. 44 percent opposed to any legal recognition for same-sex relationships. Thank you for playing Slog.
1
Brave talk fromn the side that is 0 for 30 in state referendums.
Come back when you've won one.
Dan talks a big show but when it comes to boots on the ground and knocking on doors the religious will kick your butt every time.
Too bad everything can't be handled with a bar crawl.
Come back when you've won one.
Dan talks a big show but when it comes to boots on the ground and knocking on doors the religious will kick your butt every time.
Too bad everything can't be handled with a bar crawl.
2
Um, Dan, 21% isn't a majority. It seems like a majority of NC residents support gays in general, but the section you highlighted specifically says that 28% don't support full marriage rights with civil unions.
But I think this show as with the black civil rights movement, as the generations pass, progressive ideas will out.
But I think this show as with the black civil rights movement, as the generations pass, progressive ideas will out.
3
Granted I'm still a little sleepy-eyed, but, I don't understand this post. "A solid majority"? Is there a typo somewhere in the numbers?
4
They're losing so bad that gay marriage is illegal in North Carolina.
You've really got them on the run.
You've really got them on the run.
7
um, i can't figure this post out. doesn't it say that most north carolinians oppose same sex marriage?
8
Yeah, Dan we love ya, but even the part you quoted specifically says the following:
"28 percent support civil unions but not full marriage rights"
Some form of legal recognition, yes, but full marriage rights are unfortunately not supported in NC.
"28 percent support civil unions but not full marriage rights"
Some form of legal recognition, yes, but full marriage rights are unfortunately not supported in NC.
9
Look, I'm a strong supporter of equal marriage rights, and I'm also convinced that their being granted is only a matter of time, but you clearly haven't had enough coffee this morning.
28% in North Carolina would go for civil unions. 21% support full rights. 44% are opposed to anything at all. The very best reading of this is that 49% of voters support some kind of rights for gay couples, although as soon as you mention the word "marriage" you're in trouble with more than half of those people.
I have no idea where you get the conclusion that "a solid majority of voters" in NC support "full marriage rights".
Being too confident, too soon, is what got Proposition 8 passed. By any count, our side is currently losing badly. Full rights are available almost nowhere, and MORE THAN HALF THE STATES IN THE COUNTRY have put the strongest barriers they can come up with -- constitutional amendments -- in place.
How about spending less time insisting your opposition has already lost (this just in: they're kicking our ass) and more time putting out a sane, well-reasoned, principled argument to the wavering masses?
28% in North Carolina would go for civil unions. 21% support full rights. 44% are opposed to anything at all. The very best reading of this is that 49% of voters support some kind of rights for gay couples, although as soon as you mention the word "marriage" you're in trouble with more than half of those people.
I have no idea where you get the conclusion that "a solid majority of voters" in NC support "full marriage rights".
Being too confident, too soon, is what got Proposition 8 passed. By any count, our side is currently losing badly. Full rights are available almost nowhere, and MORE THAN HALF THE STATES IN THE COUNTRY have put the strongest barriers they can come up with -- constitutional amendments -- in place.
How about spending less time insisting your opposition has already lost (this just in: they're kicking our ass) and more time putting out a sane, well-reasoned, principled argument to the wavering masses?
10
Let me explain it to them, Dan:
Take your 21% that support gay marriage, subtract your 4% margin of error gets you down to 17.
Dan is thinking about the 17 yr old noogie he'll be scoring as mayor and he gets a 'solid majority', if you catch his drift.
Take your 21% that support gay marriage, subtract your 4% margin of error gets you down to 17.
Dan is thinking about the 17 yr old noogie he'll be scoring as mayor and he gets a 'solid majority', if you catch his drift.
11
But, on the bright side, a solid majority of 32% of North Carolinians support allowing gays to adopt abandoned stray dogs, if no normal people have adopted them after 6 months.
WE'VE GOT THEM ON THE RUN !!!
WE'VE GOT THEM ON THE RUN !!!
12
I'm thinking it should probably read, "A majority, 49% support legal recognition of homosexual unions, 28%, for civil unions, and 21% for full marriage rights, while 44% are against any recognition of gay relationships.
Math aside, it is a great gain for civil rights advancement, especially coming from the south. It may be slow, but things are changing for the better.
Math aside, it is a great gain for civil rights advancement, especially coming from the south. It may be slow, but things are changing for the better.
13
I always find it funny that equality for some has to be voted on. Equal is equal there should be no voting to say a certain group of people get to be almost equal but not quite.
14
Perhaps, the best thing to take away from the article is, that the results of this poll suggest that there is a developing shift in peoples attitudes on the subject of same-sex marriage in the state of North Carolina.
15
13, You are right, people shouldn't be voting on basic human rights. It should be a given.
"Oh, you can't be full fledged citizens until you convince the majority that you are deserving, and not lesser humans."
"Oh, you can't be full fledged citizens until you convince the majority that you are deserving, and not lesser humans."
16
15 You are right. Humans should all be granted equal right: life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, not being killed in stem cell research.
"Oh, you can't be full fledged citizens until you convince the majority that you have developed organs, and not lesser humans."
"Oh, you can't be full fledged citizens until you convince the majority that you have developed organs, and not lesser humans."
18
16 You are right. cancer cells should all be granted equal rights: life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, not being killed in the course of cancer treatment.
"Oh, you can't be full fledged citizens until you convince the majority that you, as a cancer, are a bundle of human cells that should be protected from harm, and not lesser humans."
"Oh, you can't be full fledged citizens until you convince the majority that you, as a cancer, are a bundle of human cells that should be protected from harm, and not lesser humans."
19
17
Actually it is a thread about Dan's lack of math skills and how far North Carolina is from gay marriage.
Actually it is a thread about Dan's lack of math skills and how far North Carolina is from gay marriage.
20
@16 I see nothing wrong with saying that you can't be a full-fledged citizen until you are a full-fledged human.
21
This is a dubious poll to say the least since Elon is associated with the UCC which tends to lean on a more erroneous or socially liberal way when it comes to gays seeking exposure of their ideologies. I'm sure that the questions made to people had to be fuzzy in someway, it has been done in the past. But once people know what the questioners mean by the words used to get answers from people close to what they wanted to hear, those forty three and forty four percent figures come more closely to seventy and probably eighty. That's if this whole poll wasn't just a farce put up by some on the university to further their own agenda.
25
Actually Dan, brick shitting is a common pasttime among the RR.
Because, you know, everyone is going to leak anyway.
So why not blow your asshole out shitting bricks while you're young?
Because, you know, everyone is going to leak anyway.
So why not blow your asshole out shitting bricks while you're young?
27
Uhm...
I may feel wrong after reading the comments but isn't 28+21 equal to 49?? So 49 percent of NC are in favor of some sort of gay marriage?? Which means the majority?
I may feel wrong after reading the comments but isn't 28+21 equal to 49?? So 49 percent of NC are in favor of some sort of gay marriage?? Which means the majority?
28
It's more an age thing.
Same thing happened in Canada - it was always the old folks that were all upset, nobody born after 1960 really cared that much about it, for the most part.
But those old folks are just living in fear of the Lavender Menace.
Same thing happened in Canada - it was always the old folks that were all upset, nobody born after 1960 really cared that much about it, for the most part.
But those old folks are just living in fear of the Lavender Menace.
29
Dan, North Carolina has a lot of liberal towns in amidst all the rural. Between people from the triangle and people from Asheville you've got some very left wing demographics.
30
@27 You're aware that "majority" means "more than half", right? And that percentages are out of a total of 100?
Is this Math-Opposite Day or something?
Is this Math-Opposite Day or something?
31
@30 - no, we're using neo-con math, where the 15 percent of Americans who are neo-cons can claim to represent the majority of Americans?
You got a problem with that?
You got a problem with that?
32
Re: Update. Where I got confused was that the text you quoted said "28% support civil unions but not full marriage rights." I interpreted that to mean that they supported some legal recognition of gay unions, but without all the "rights of marriage."
Plus, 49% is not "the majority." Obviously, it's close, but, when you're throwing statistics around, majority clearly means more than 50%.
Plus, 49% is not "the majority." Obviously, it's close, but, when you're throwing statistics around, majority clearly means more than 50%.
33
Sheesh -- post-update and Dan still can't count.
Dan, when one alternative garners more votes than any of the others, BUT STILL LESS THAN HALF, that's not a "majority", it's a "plurality".
The word you are looking for is "plurality". Please make a note of it.
Thank you for playing Slog, yerself.
Dan, when one alternative garners more votes than any of the others, BUT STILL LESS THAN HALF, that's not a "majority", it's a "plurality".
The word you are looking for is "plurality". Please make a note of it.
Thank you for playing Slog, yerself.
36
Why doesn't the South cecede already? I'm ready to let them become "Jesusland" as another third world nation with "ignorance is bliss" as their national motto.
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