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News & ArtsSaturday, March 21, 2009
Crime The Limits of Love
Posted by Charles Mudede on Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 12:51 PM
A commentor, Yekaterina, on an article posted on West Seattle Herald (which is to Amanda Knox what Fox News is to the GOP) makes a profound point about the family's refusal to see Amanda in any other way but innocent.
I have been following the case from the very beginning with a special interest of somebody who attended a course of Italian in Perugia a few decades ago and who today has children of similar ages as the victim and the accused. My children have studied abroad and they travel the world. It is every parent's worst nightmare to find him/herself in the situation of Meredith's parents but also in the situation of the parents of the accused in this case.Yet, I think that almost all of the actions of Knox's parents are not only out of place, but simply outrageous. Parents should be there for their children to provide real support in every situation, not to encourage them in their denial.
It is obvious that Knox knows more than she is ready to admit and that she was involved in the crime in some way. Her parents, stepparents, uncles, aunts and friends are unfortunately showing her that they can only love her if she is innocent and in this way they have been actively encouraging her to perpetuate her lies....
That is the heart of the matter: Can Amanda's family only love her if she's innocent? Meaning, the force that's behind their resistance to see her as possibly guilty is actually the fear of not being able to love a guilty Amanda. To love a murderer is a terrible situation to be in. Hannah Arendt once wrote that the reason why one should not commit murder is because one is always in the existential situation of living with oneself—oneself not actually being one but dialogically two or more. So, if you murder someone, you are essentially moving in with a murderer. Similarly, to love a murderer is to live with one, and how can you feel safe or happy in a situation like that? But, on the other hand, under any circumstance, how can you hate your daughter, your child, the person you gave birth to and raised? How can you stop loving the you in her? There is no easy solution to the problem.
2
Clearly people have very different conceptions of love. When we look at the divorce rate or the even the fictional portrayal of love in movies or on TV we see a horrifying shallowness of love. I've seen many real examples of love being withdrawn for much less than murder. Oh, you acted how yesterday? Get the fuck out of my life. You're evil.
3
I am so tired of hearing about killers lives.
Why not mention more about the victim in this case and who she was. You are just making Amanda Knox a celebrity.
Killers always get to be celebrities.
We need to start talking less about them they are not important.
Why not mention more about the victim in this case and who she was. You are just making Amanda Knox a celebrity.
Killers always get to be celebrities.
We need to start talking less about them they are not important.
4
"There is no easy solution to the problem."
No, there really isn't. If you love somebody, or are loved by anybody, the safest thing to do is to kill nobody. Kind of late for that, now, I guess.
No, there really isn't. If you love somebody, or are loved by anybody, the safest thing to do is to kill nobody. Kind of late for that, now, I guess.
5
Charles,
I agree with your assessment. I quite frankly think Ms. Knox is guilty. Very few if any parents want to believe or accept (especially prior to a verdict) their child is guilty of a heinous crime. Ms. Knox exudes a picture of beauty and innocence which in addition, makes it difficult for extended family and neighbors to believe she is culpable. But, it is not unnatural. The mother of William Balfour (the accused killer of the mother, the nephew and brother of actress Jennifer Hudson exclaimed "My son is innocent!" when it was disclosed he was the prime suspect in that triple murder. He is the estranged husband of Jennifer Hudson's sister as well.) The more I read about the Knox case the more I'm convinced of her guilt.
BTW, if you believe FOX News is the tool of the GOP, fine. However, I do believe the American media in general is quite sympathetic to the Democratic Party.
I agree with your assessment. I quite frankly think Ms. Knox is guilty. Very few if any parents want to believe or accept (especially prior to a verdict) their child is guilty of a heinous crime. Ms. Knox exudes a picture of beauty and innocence which in addition, makes it difficult for extended family and neighbors to believe she is culpable. But, it is not unnatural. The mother of William Balfour (the accused killer of the mother, the nephew and brother of actress Jennifer Hudson exclaimed "My son is innocent!" when it was disclosed he was the prime suspect in that triple murder. He is the estranged husband of Jennifer Hudson's sister as well.) The more I read about the Knox case the more I'm convinced of her guilt.
BTW, if you believe FOX News is the tool of the GOP, fine. However, I do believe the American media in general is quite sympathetic to the Democratic Party.
6
Parents who believe their kids must be perfect to be loved are the biggest impediment to their kids. Teachers know this. How many parents, rather than disciplining their kids, hate on their kids' teachers for bad grades or for punishing their kids for bad behavior? Far too many.
7
@5 The media might appear more sympathetic to the Dems because the non-sense that passes for politically acceptable on the right is so clearly odious and anathema to the well being of our nation and people. Witness the ruin their time in office has left us. And they clearly intended even more damage to our economy, freedoms, and environment. Would you push such trash on people if you were responsible?
8
hey you guys who think she's guilty:
pls. provide evidence and inferences adding up to the story of what happened, you know, motive, opportunity, means, evidence 'n' stuff? Like at the end of an Agatha Christie novel? or if you can't or won't, STFU.
btw, 1. "she's hot" = not evidence.
2. "she read lurid comix" ditto.
3. there's already a guy sho's been found guilty, remember him? pls. account for that, too.
pls. provide evidence and inferences adding up to the story of what happened, you know, motive, opportunity, means, evidence 'n' stuff? Like at the end of an Agatha Christie novel? or if you can't or won't, STFU.
btw, 1. "she's hot" = not evidence.
2. "she read lurid comix" ditto.
3. there's already a guy sho's been found guilty, remember him? pls. account for that, too.
9
@8: Amanda claimed that the her vibrator that was found in her bathroom was just a "joke" item that she received in the states and brought with her to Italy. Do you believe her that it was just a joke item? Or do you think she is lying? Thanks.
10
I doubt she knows what the truth is because the girl was likely high as a kite at the time of the killing. She probably has no idea what is real and what may be fantasy.
Also, her family has a bad case of "Not My Child" syndrome. "Amanda would never, ever do anything like that. My darling daughter is a good kid. The other kid is lying..."
If they ever came to believe she was guilty they would rationalize it as 1.) It wasn't Amanda's fault, she was under the spell of those wicked foreign friends of hers. She's naive and trusting. Amanda is a victim too... or 2.) It was an accident. They were just goofing around and that girl got killed by accident. Amanda didn't mean to hurt anyone!
Also, her family has a bad case of "Not My Child" syndrome. "Amanda would never, ever do anything like that. My darling daughter is a good kid. The other kid is lying..."
If they ever came to believe she was guilty they would rationalize it as 1.) It wasn't Amanda's fault, she was under the spell of those wicked foreign friends of hers. She's naive and trusting. Amanda is a victim too... or 2.) It was an accident. They were just goofing around and that girl got killed by accident. Amanda didn't mean to hurt anyone!
11
I have to disagree with your entire premise. I really don't think that this coed from Seattle was capable of such a heinous crime. Smoking hashish does not a killer make!
13
I'm glad somebody finally acknowledged this angle to the story. I've been thinking that the really fascinating part of all this is the father's pathologically unsettling denial (and where that will lead when Amanda is eventually found guilty, which she very obviously will). Operatic tragedy, that.
17
She is guilty. Italy isn't so much like the United States in that the rich and famous get acquitted of their crimes. She can't suck and fuck her way out of this problem. Nor can she rely on mommy and daddy to save her ass.
18
@17
In Italy, it's just as easy (or easier) as it is in the US to pay your way out of crimes, especially if you're paying the right people.
In Italy, it's just as easy (or easier) as it is in the US to pay your way out of crimes, especially if you're paying the right people.
19
@9 WTF? We live in a society that looks down upon female sexuality (esp. the kind you can do on your own) and I'm sure a number of women who are caught with solo sex toys say something like "haha, it was a gag gift, I don't use it". Skirting the reason you have a vibrator to avoid embarrassment hardly makes one guilty of murder...
20
@19: First of all, I think that mentality is becoming increasingly foreign to younger people, and second of all, if I were a murder suspect, I wouldn't lie to save myself from a little public ridicule.
No, that lie doesn't make her guilty of anything, but it's among a number of bizarre stories coming from this person, and the cumulative effect is to make her look like she's hiding something important.
No, that lie doesn't make her guilty of anything, but it's among a number of bizarre stories coming from this person, and the cumulative effect is to make her look like she's hiding something important.
21
Skirting the reason you have a vibrator to avoid embarrassment hardly makes one guilty of murder...
to avoid embarrassment?! dude, she's on trial for murder. don't you think that's a bit more embarrassing than having any sex toy? don't you think she would want to tell the truth 100% of the time when on trial for a murder she claims she didn't commit?
to avoid embarrassment?! dude, she's on trial for murder. don't you think that's a bit more embarrassing than having any sex toy? don't you think she would want to tell the truth 100% of the time when on trial for a murder she claims she didn't commit?
22
@9 Wtf, she uses a vibrator so she must be a murderer? Or, she was embarassed to admit she used a vibrator so she's a murderer?
She might very well have done it, but your comment is offensive.
She might very well have done it, but your comment is offensive.
23
@22: No, I wasn't saying that. Sorry if you found the comment offensive. I obviously don't know if she's truly guilty or not. But if I were on a jury and a defendant put some forth some likely lies, it would affect how I looked at their other statements.
25
@23--
First of all, its quite possible that it WAS a gag gift. People do give sex toys as gag gifts, and the recipient might try it and find out they like it, or just not throw it away because now its there just in case.
But yeah, its more likely she bought it herself and uses it. So what? Most girls raised in the states are raised to be slightly ashamed of their sexuality. Its a pretty normal response to say "oh, uh, I don't really use that, its just a joke," just like a guy caught with porn might blame a roommate or say he and a friend were joking about it because they thought it was funny, not actually, you know, using it.
Its like asking someone if they've ever left the bathroom without washing their hands, or failed to put their chewed gum in the trash, ever in their life, and if they say no, you say well then you must be lying about everything else too.
First of all, its quite possible that it WAS a gag gift. People do give sex toys as gag gifts, and the recipient might try it and find out they like it, or just not throw it away because now its there just in case.
But yeah, its more likely she bought it herself and uses it. So what? Most girls raised in the states are raised to be slightly ashamed of their sexuality. Its a pretty normal response to say "oh, uh, I don't really use that, its just a joke," just like a guy caught with porn might blame a roommate or say he and a friend were joking about it because they thought it was funny, not actually, you know, using it.
Its like asking someone if they've ever left the bathroom without washing their hands, or failed to put their chewed gum in the trash, ever in their life, and if they say no, you say well then you must be lying about everything else too.
27
Charles, thank you for this post, and for bringing Yekaterina's words to the Slog. That is indeed a fascinating angle on this whole thing -- Knox's family's pathological insistence on her absolute innocence is not doing ANYONE any good.
(And, as an aside, if I NEVER EVER see or hear the word "coed" again, it'll still be too soon. Double Triple Quadruple YUCK!!)
(And, as an aside, if I NEVER EVER see or hear the word "coed" again, it'll still be too soon. Double Triple Quadruple YUCK!!)
29
@25: You totally ignored that I said above. I didn't say that simply because someone lies about one thing then they "must be lying about everything else too." But if someone is likely lying about something while on trial for murder then it will cause me to more closely scrutinize their other statements. That's not a shocking concept.
And your premise in your first paragraph isn't what happened in AK's case.
And your premise in your first paragraph isn't what happened in AK's case.
30
i don't think she lied about the vibrator to the polizie. she lied about it to her roommate - the one who found the body & who testified about the vibrator at the trial.
people GENERALLY don't murder when they're high on THC. there's part of this - motive, especially, that's still missing.
i don't think she's told the absolute truth to anyone, maybe because she was traumatized by what she saw/did. or maybe she did tell the truth to the cops, and they badgered her into "remembering" something better for their theory.
people GENERALLY don't murder when they're high on THC. there's part of this - motive, especially, that's still missing.
i don't think she's told the absolute truth to anyone, maybe because she was traumatized by what she saw/did. or maybe she did tell the truth to the cops, and they badgered her into "remembering" something better for their theory.
31
she lied about it to her roommate - the one who found the body & who testified about the vibrator at the trial.
wrong. AK herself mentioned it in the trial:
"I want to make a brief clarification to the object in the bag in the bathroom -- the vibrator," Knox said. "It exists. But it was just a joke, a gift from a friend from before I came to Italy. It is a tiny Pink Rabbit about 15 centimeters (about 6 inches)," she said.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/400015_kn…
just a joke.
wrong. AK herself mentioned it in the trial:
"I want to make a brief clarification to the object in the bag in the bathroom -- the vibrator," Knox said. "It exists. But it was just a joke, a gift from a friend from before I came to Italy. It is a tiny Pink Rabbit about 15 centimeters (about 6 inches)," she said.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/400015_kn…
just a joke.
33
"Smoking hashish does not a killer make!" @ 11
You're right of course, but smoking hash also does not cause memory lapses of the kind both Knox and Sollecito claim. They say they do not remember what happened that night because they were smoking cannabis! Reefer madness!
They became suspects for the usual reasons: they were found at the scene of the crime by two police officers investigating stolen cell phones (the victim's, tossed in a garden); when questioned separately, their alibis did not tally at all; Knox then falsely accused a totally innocent man of the murder and said she was there, covering her ears in the kitchen,while it happened. The family and friends have been claiming for months that this false accusation was beaten and tortured out of her, that she was denied an interpreter, etc.
None of this is true. We're not talking about a "false confession" here, even though the local spin factory keeps using the term. We are talking about falsely accusing an innocent man, a serious crime in and of itself. After making this false accusation, Knox said nothing, letting the guy rot in jail until DNA analysis put a different name and face on the participant in this brutal murder. Family and friends nonetheless claim she retracted her statement. They are in total denial of reality.
In perpetuating these lies despite clear evidence to the contrary, family and friends are behaving like true enablers. And it ain't working for anyone, least of all Amanda Knox.
You're right of course, but smoking hash also does not cause memory lapses of the kind both Knox and Sollecito claim. They say they do not remember what happened that night because they were smoking cannabis! Reefer madness!
They became suspects for the usual reasons: they were found at the scene of the crime by two police officers investigating stolen cell phones (the victim's, tossed in a garden); when questioned separately, their alibis did not tally at all; Knox then falsely accused a totally innocent man of the murder and said she was there, covering her ears in the kitchen,while it happened. The family and friends have been claiming for months that this false accusation was beaten and tortured out of her, that she was denied an interpreter, etc.
None of this is true. We're not talking about a "false confession" here, even though the local spin factory keeps using the term. We are talking about falsely accusing an innocent man, a serious crime in and of itself. After making this false accusation, Knox said nothing, letting the guy rot in jail until DNA analysis put a different name and face on the participant in this brutal murder. Family and friends nonetheless claim she retracted her statement. They are in total denial of reality.
In perpetuating these lies despite clear evidence to the contrary, family and friends are behaving like true enablers. And it ain't working for anyone, least of all Amanda Knox.
34
Knox is in trouble deep and digging herself in deeper and deeper with her ever-changing stories. I see the denial in her entire family, especially the parents and her mentally-unstable step father. I guess that the family Knox/Mellas will go into some sort of "fund the appeal" stage next much like the family of Scott Petersen - who also (Still!) claim their son to be perfect and perfectly innocent. They will be going in circles (soon maybe in straight jackets) for years and years to come - she's innocent, she looks innocent, it was only a joke vibrator...................
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