Slog
News & ArtsFriday, March 20, 2009
City Should the City Say Neigh to Horse Cops?
Posted by Jonah Spangenthal-Lee on Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 3:42 PM
With a looming budget crisis, the city council is looking high and low for places to make budget cuts.
One budget cut, which is apparently making the rounds at city hall, is to send the eight horses used by the Seattle Police Department’s to the glue factory.
The city spends about $100,000 a year to house and maintain the horses at a facility near Westcrest Park in West Seattle. If the city were to cut the mounted patrols, officers in the unit would be reassigned to other duties.
According to an emailed statement from Seattle Police Department spokeswoman Renee Witt, the mounted unit is "an integral part of the department":
The mounted unit is a working unit that is utilized everyday. In addition to parades, crowd control, community function events etc..
There are no plans to downsize the mounted unit.
While business owners and residents in the downtown core have been pleading with the city to increase the police presence, not everyone’s a fan of the mounted units.
“I think [the mounted patrols] are a double-edged sword,” says Nick Wells, Executive Director of the Pioneer Square Community Association. “They certainly fit the historic character of the neighborhood. But there’s an issue with waste. When a horse uses the bathroom, it’s not a small pile.”
Wells says the mounted units have turned Pioneer Square into a bit of a minefield and that he’d prefer to see more bike patrols in the area. "It’s interesting," Wells says. "The horse drawn carriages have bags that catch [horseshit] and SPD doesn’t. I had a very close call stepping into a large pile a few days ago.” he says.
Cutting SPD's mounted unit wouldn't come close to fixing a projected $30 million shortfall, but every little cut counts, at least until the economy is more stable.
Photo by Jason Anfinsen via Flickr.
3
When a horse uses the bathroom, it’s not a small pile.
They let the horses use the businesses' bathrooms?!
There otta be a law!
They let the horses use the businesses' bathrooms?!
There otta be a law!
4
Fine a rider for any horse that shits on the street $2000. After 50 shits in a year, it's all profit! Ka-ching!
7
i say send the horses as a gift to go with gil to the drug czar's office
there's never enough horseshit produced over there
there's never enough horseshit produced over there
9
Ah, the police horse. The only animal with an asshole halfway up its back.
I mean, seriously, folks!
I mean, seriously, folks!
11
I work in Pioneer Square and I rarely see horeshit. Homeless dudes pissing and shitting in the park, yes. Homeless dude's trash, yes. Empty beer cans/bottles, yes. Drug dealing,yes. Pickpockets, yes. Humping in the alleys, yes.
I'd rather deal with cop's horeshit than all the other human refuse.
I suppose they could ride bikes. But bikes are not nearly as intimidating as a cop on a horse.
I'd rather deal with cop's horeshit than all the other human refuse.
I suppose they could ride bikes. But bikes are not nearly as intimidating as a cop on a horse.
12
But bikes are not nearly as intimidating as a cop on a horse.
thats what I'm talking about; those guys are fierce.
thats what I'm talking about; those guys are fierce.
15
Whenever I look at old photographs of Seattle or any other city in the pre-automobile days, I always think what an absolute joy it must have been to not have to deal with all those speeding, smoke-belching machines, and instead luxuriate in the soft steaming piles that lined every street from curb to curb. I read somewhere that in the nineteenth century 2,000 horses a day dropped dead in the street in New York. What a thrill that must have been, especially since the city didn't pick up the carcasses, so they'd just rot there.
17
Well, the mounted police are also one of the few faces of the police that look friendly and approachable when they're just out on patrol. And they are great at crowd control. Why don't we get some numbers that show how effective they are at various tasks, as opposed to bike patrols and cops in cars or on foot, so that actual effectiveness can be measured?
19
Horse cops are the only proven method of effectively catching stagecoach robbers, cattle rustlers, and claim jumpers.
20
@15: Cars were viewed as a cleaner, quieter alternative to horses, weird what happened with that.
22
Ah yes, a subject after my own heart. Here is my response from a complaint I lodged about all of the poop on the street. In case you didn't know the poop magically disappears after a day or two!:
Dear Ms. (omitted),
In response to your question regarding the process for cleaning up after the Mounted Patrol horse, the Mounted Patrol Officers make every attempt to minimize the impact that the natural processes the horses experience has on the community that they serve. Unfortunately, there are times when the inevitable happens and officers are expected to use whatever means may be at their disposal to move the droppings to the nearest (more appropriate) location. There have been instances where a water hose has been available and the droppings are washed away. There have also been times when officers have improvised scoops and carried the droppings to the trashcan or dumpster. Sometimes the only option that is available is to kick the droppings into the gutter, where city sanitation workers in the course of their regular duties clean them up or when time or circumstances do not permit, leave them where they lie.
It should be noted that the horses’ diet consists of hay, grain and water supplemented by a small amount of vitamins. Since there are no meat by-products or synthetic compounds, their droppings contain only hay, grain and water waste. They tend to dry quickly, compact easily and all but disappear within a day or two.
If you have further questions, please do not hesitate to contact our Mounted Patrol Unit at 386-4238.
The Office of the Chief
:cw
Sincerely,
R.Gil Kerlikowske
Chief of Police
RGK: smk
Dear Ms. (omitted),
In response to your question regarding the process for cleaning up after the Mounted Patrol horse, the Mounted Patrol Officers make every attempt to minimize the impact that the natural processes the horses experience has on the community that they serve. Unfortunately, there are times when the inevitable happens and officers are expected to use whatever means may be at their disposal to move the droppings to the nearest (more appropriate) location. There have been instances where a water hose has been available and the droppings are washed away. There have also been times when officers have improvised scoops and carried the droppings to the trashcan or dumpster. Sometimes the only option that is available is to kick the droppings into the gutter, where city sanitation workers in the course of their regular duties clean them up or when time or circumstances do not permit, leave them where they lie.
It should be noted that the horses’ diet consists of hay, grain and water supplemented by a small amount of vitamins. Since there are no meat by-products or synthetic compounds, their droppings contain only hay, grain and water waste. They tend to dry quickly, compact easily and all but disappear within a day or two.
If you have further questions, please do not hesitate to contact our Mounted Patrol Unit at 386-4238.
The Office of the Chief
:cw
Sincerely,
R.Gil Kerlikowske
Chief of Police
RGK: smk
23
@22, oh, great. That means all the vegans are going to start shitting in the street, and the city will OK with it.
24
@23, Vegan shits are actually really small, nice, and tidy. I'd rather deal with vegan shits in the street than carnivore shits in public restrooms (sights, sounds, and smells).
25
I'll never forget seeing a couple of cops letting their horses urinate on the grass of Victor Steinbrueck park. Yikes.
26
I adore the horse cops. It fills me with wonder and I wish we could have stables down on the water and open up the streets to horses. Sigh.
28
@24, I've always suspected that vegans think their shit doesn't stink. Thanks for confirming it. "Nice", indeed.
30
That's what you get for wearing tassled loafers to work, Nick Wells. Green Wellies are the hot new spring fashion.
31
“I think [the mounted patrols] are a double-edged sword,”
eep, yikes...double edged swords and horses?
don't even get me started.
eep, yikes...double edged swords and horses?
don't even get me started.
32
I've got a better idea - zero out every line item (and extra staffer) dedicated to South Lake Union development.
Budget problem solved.
(and I think the horse patrol is worth saving - they are effective for special events, though to poop problem is a real one)
Budget problem solved.
(and I think the horse patrol is worth saving - they are effective for special events, though to poop problem is a real one)
33
Whenever they threaten to downsize the mounted units, I picture midget officers on Shetland ponies.
34
>"The horse drawn carriages have bags that catch [horseshit] and SPD doesn’t. I had a very close call stepping into a large pile a few days ago.” he says.
Wouldn't I get a citation if _my_ horse did that?
Wouldn't I get a citation if _my_ horse did that?
35
I think a little horse shit (eew, my dog wants to roll in it and eat it!) is worth that connection to the time before us, that time before dense urban planning and height restrictions, when milk wagons and livery stables were part of daily living. The part of me that reveres history is afraid that horse cops are the last gasp of that time and I don't want to let it go.
36
Loved them before getting chased by cops on horseback at WTO. I don't think I've experienced raw animal fear that intense at any other time in my life.
37
I have a fun fund raising idea - Sounders fans could pay $100.00 dollars for a "pony ride" in the quest field parking lot before a game. Jonah could be tied to the back of the horse. I know I would gladly part with $100.00 to drag Jonah's lame football hating ass around in circles behind a galloping behemoth. All proceeds go to help pay to keep the horse patrol going. 32,000 fans times $100.00...
38
@35, many cities you may be familiar with, such as New York, were many times more dense in the horse era. And, as I mentioned before, the horse era in cities meant constant contact with rotting horse corpses. Children used to play with them; it was in poor neighborhoods their only plaything. You wouldn't have liked it.
Grant, that's what makes horses so effective in crowd control.
Grant, that's what makes horses so effective in crowd control.
39
Let's see. MSRP for a Ford Crown Vic Police Interceptor is only $27,720, so replacing the eight horses with eight cop cars would be a low low $224,000. They get 14 mpg in the city, not counting prolonged idling which most cop cars do.
I don't think disbanding the mounted unit is a money saver.
As far as horse poop goes, it is a high nitrogen fertilizer. Collect it and compost it -- it's chartreuse gold.
constant contact with rotting horse corpses. Children used to play with them; it was in poor neighborhoods their only plaything.
gmafb, fnarf. Dead horses could be rendered down, so scavengers picked them up. And not just in long ago times; here's a bit from a South African paper:
Dumped carcasses on their menu
Baldwin Ndaba
December 12 2003 at 03:22AM
Within 30 minutes scavengers chopped up a dead horse, filled their bags with the meat and prepared to celebrate an early Christmas.
This was the scene yesterday when a bakkie arrived at Mid-Vaal dumping site in Walkerville with a horse's carcass.
I don't think disbanding the mounted unit is a money saver.
As far as horse poop goes, it is a high nitrogen fertilizer. Collect it and compost it -- it's chartreuse gold.
constant contact with rotting horse corpses. Children used to play with them; it was in poor neighborhoods their only plaything.
gmafb, fnarf. Dead horses could be rendered down, so scavengers picked them up. And not just in long ago times; here's a bit from a South African paper:
Dumped carcasses on their menu
Baldwin Ndaba
December 12 2003 at 03:22AM
Within 30 minutes scavengers chopped up a dead horse, filled their bags with the meat and prepared to celebrate an early Christmas.
This was the scene yesterday when a bakkie arrived at Mid-Vaal dumping site in Walkerville with a horse's carcass.
42
As long as they're not thinking they can replace the horses with Segways. Cops on Segways are the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Cops on horses inspire fear and confidence. Cops on Segways inspire mockery and disdain.
43
"The mounted unit is a working unit that is utilized everyday."
I call BS. That statement has to be a lie.
There's no reason why the police horses couldn't have manure catchers mounted on their derrieres, the cops just like to shit all over.
I call BS. That statement has to be a lie.
There's no reason why the police horses couldn't have manure catchers mounted on their derrieres, the cops just like to shit all over.
45
The horse cop is a nostalgia trip or means of using intimidation as crowd control. There is no need.
46
God Dam*!
Remember the old days at the whatever that places name was before the sold it to Oklahoma...
Shit... speaking of shit... I remember as clearly
as I can the old Ted Nugent and heart Cheap Trick Sammy Hagar Kiss Concerts with their wonderfully full garbage containers of partially empty bottles and the way those AMaZINGLY uniformed horsemen ( and women ) would ride right into the crowd of men ( and women ) and children ( and whatever else was in line ) to expedite the traverse across the access route of their thought processes.
And just to think they gave the Stones a bad time for Altim... mont? what was it called again....
ah... that's right Mr. Brake-waith.... we do remember ants and the rants of the can'ts.
Oh ya... and another thing... not all the cops are bad... just the ones who shoot people and get paid to lie in court while under-cover internal affairs are sold to the tightest sitter.
Remember the old days at the whatever that places name was before the sold it to Oklahoma...
Shit... speaking of shit... I remember as clearly
as I can the old Ted Nugent and heart Cheap Trick Sammy Hagar Kiss Concerts with their wonderfully full garbage containers of partially empty bottles and the way those AMaZINGLY uniformed horsemen ( and women ) would ride right into the crowd of men ( and women ) and children ( and whatever else was in line ) to expedite the traverse across the access route of their thought processes.
And just to think they gave the Stones a bad time for Altim... mont? what was it called again....
ah... that's right Mr. Brake-waith.... we do remember ants and the rants of the can'ts.
Oh ya... and another thing... not all the cops are bad... just the ones who shoot people and get paid to lie in court while under-cover internal affairs are sold to the tightest sitter.
51
I met a horses ass the other day.I didn't notice any manure around but the guy was certainly full of shit.
53
@39, I don't know what gwafb means, but I offer this in rebuttal:
"Despite the presence of animals, the city had no systematic street-cleaning efforts. During winter, neighborhoods sometimes rose between two and six feet in height due to the accumulation of waste and snow. The middle-class brownstones of the 1880s provided a stoop leading to a second floor entrance so that the residents would rise above manure--which seeped into the ground floor during a storm or with melting snow. Horses posed an additional street-cleaning dilemma. A horse carcass can easily weigh 1,200 pounds, far beyond the lifting capabilities of a person. When a horse died, its carcass would be left to rot until it had disintegrated enough for someone to pick up the pieces. Children would play with dead horses lying on the streets. "
-- The Living City, http://www.livingcityarchive.org/htm/fra…
"Despite the presence of animals, the city had no systematic street-cleaning efforts. During winter, neighborhoods sometimes rose between two and six feet in height due to the accumulation of waste and snow. The middle-class brownstones of the 1880s provided a stoop leading to a second floor entrance so that the residents would rise above manure--which seeped into the ground floor during a storm or with melting snow. Horses posed an additional street-cleaning dilemma. A horse carcass can easily weigh 1,200 pounds, far beyond the lifting capabilities of a person. When a horse died, its carcass would be left to rot until it had disintegrated enough for someone to pick up the pieces. Children would play with dead horses lying on the streets. "
-- The Living City, http://www.livingcityarchive.org/htm/fra…
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