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News & ArtsSaturday, March 14, 2009
Chow Re: Scanwiches!
Posted by Bethany Jean Clement on Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 1:27 PM
Went directly to the Pike Place Market on Thursday after reading comments here and had a turkey and Swiss from the I Love New York Deli. It's a stand right by the teeny hot doughnuts stand, across from DeLaurenti's. The guy is a sweetheart, and the sandwich was basic and great—I asked for it on a Kaiser roll, and since the rolls are kind of small, he made me two (for $8.95). (Sorry no photo; just picture a really good-looking sandwich, heavy on the meat.) He has the rolls baked for him at a bakery in Everett; they are a minor miracle just by virtue of being fresh, good, and in Seattle. He said he's been selling tons of Reubens since being written up in the Seattle Times, and they looked amazing. Next time!
But re: Scanwiches, commenter Strath @34 is smelling what I'm cooking:
Having just moved back to Seattle after ten years in Brooklyn, sandwich-wise what I miss most is not the famous delis (Katz's etc.), but the totally delicious, high quality $3 Boar's Head heros from just about any respectable bodega (especially the one on Ashland & DeKalb in Fort Greene). Seattle doesn't lack super high quality sandwich spots — what it could use is some regular old cheap-but-great sandwich pushers. Any Capitol Hill recommendations? From what I can tell, the deli counter at QFC is one of the better options.
Katz's/I Love NY—style overstuffed sandwiches for $10 are fine and dandy, but I'm with Strath: I want a good, cheap Boar's Head sandwich readily available. QFC just doesn't get it right (also, no rolls). Sigh.
Also over in comments on Scanwiches: @40, you are entirely correct, sir or madam: "@31, Nordstrom's and Boeing's are acceptable variations because the companies are named after their founders (John Nordstrom and Bill Boeing, respectively). As in, 'Nordstrom's clothing store' or 'Boeing's airplane factory.' Pike Place, however, is named after its location, so the rule doesn't apply. I cannot think of a single native who refers to the market using the possessive."
Photo of Pike Place Market, 1916, from the Seattle Municipal Archives.
3
I think a fair number of native Seattleites who are now in their 60s and older actually do sometimes say "Pike's Place"; younger people basically never do, but if you don't know any authentic Seattle old timers, you've probably heard it used. Pike Street is named for John Pike, who settled in Seattle in the 1850s, so even though the market is named for the street and not for John Pike himself, "Pike's Place" kind of makes sense in historical context. So Fnarf is basically correct on this one, I think.
As for Nordstrom, people actually personally knew Johan Nordström in the 1930s and 40s when he started his shoe store, and so people would have naturally said I'm going to Nordstrom's (cf. to the grocer's, to the chemist's, etc.). I think Fnarf is 100% correct on that.
I can't speak to "Boeing's" but I suspect Seattle old timers would likely say that, too. Trust in Fnarf.
I myself still say I'm going to the "Bon" when I mean "Macy's"; my kid will think that's annoyingly anachronistic later on, I'm sure.
As for Nordstrom, people actually personally knew Johan Nordström in the 1930s and 40s when he started his shoe store, and so people would have naturally said I'm going to Nordstrom's (cf. to the grocer's, to the chemist's, etc.). I think Fnarf is 100% correct on that.
I can't speak to "Boeing's" but I suspect Seattle old timers would likely say that, too. Trust in Fnarf.
I myself still say I'm going to the "Bon" when I mean "Macy's"; my kid will think that's annoyingly anachronistic later on, I'm sure.
4
Other Coast (both locations) is terrible. Really, I Love NY closes the book, their chicken liver sandwich is a thing of sublime beauty. The pickled tongue, not as good, but still worth recommending. Decent knish, too. Outside of Salumi or the bahn-mi at Saigon Deli, there's no reason to get a sandwich anywhere else that I can think of.
5
Three sisters bakery down in the market does a pretty great rueben. The rest is also good and fresh. Anyway quiznos is doing a 5 dollar sandwich promo
6
The corner store at Bellevue and Olive makes huge sandwiches for about $5.50. Don't be scared by the cretins hanging around the place- I see the health inspector in there often, and they still have a five star rating.
The bread's not fancy, but the sandwiches are totally tasty!
The bread's not fancy, but the sandwiches are totally tasty!
7
What Seattle needs is not only a good, reasonably priced sandwich place, but one that serves the half-gallon of iced-tea in the styrofoam cup with real lemon slices and heaping teaspoons of sugar to wash it down with.
8
@3:
I'm not a born-and-bred Seattelite, but as a native PNW'er, and long-time Washington resident who has regularly visited "the Market" for more than 40 years, I would say the above is how most locals refer to PPM, unless addressing out-of-towners, in which case it would be "the Pike Place Market". When talking to other locals, the former would be the only necessary designation; everyone knew there was only one "the Market", and I've never heard a native, old-timer or otherwise, refer to it using the possessive.
Nordstrom's (or the commonly foreshortened "Nordy's") is, as you state, a completely different matter. OTOH, I've never heard anyone refer to Boeing using the possessive, and I've got family that have worked there at various times since the late 1950's.
And I'm in total agreement re: "The Bon", it'll be that until the day I die. Heck, I still call that place up at The Center (no need to add the nearly redundant "Seattle" to that, as another case in point) "The Coliseum", and that big black building downtown will always be "The Columbia Tower" in my mind, corporate renaming be-damned.
I'm not a born-and-bred Seattelite, but as a native PNW'er, and long-time Washington resident who has regularly visited "the Market" for more than 40 years, I would say the above is how most locals refer to PPM, unless addressing out-of-towners, in which case it would be "the Pike Place Market". When talking to other locals, the former would be the only necessary designation; everyone knew there was only one "the Market", and I've never heard a native, old-timer or otherwise, refer to it using the possessive.
Nordstrom's (or the commonly foreshortened "Nordy's") is, as you state, a completely different matter. OTOH, I've never heard anyone refer to Boeing using the possessive, and I've got family that have worked there at various times since the late 1950's.
And I'm in total agreement re: "The Bon", it'll be that until the day I die. Heck, I still call that place up at The Center (no need to add the nearly redundant "Seattle" to that, as another case in point) "The Coliseum", and that big black building downtown will always be "The Columbia Tower" in my mind, corporate renaming be-damned.
9
I have a no great love nativists who proudly cling to the past, as if the quaint habits you were fed as a child by no choice of your own are inherently superior. Mostly because it's the opposite of what makes cities great.
Meeting unchanging people like that driving through the countryside is amusing though, and sadly understandable. For them, if you take away the past, they've got nothing left, nothing at all.
Meeting unchanging people like that driving through the countryside is amusing though, and sadly understandable. For them, if you take away the past, they've got nothing left, nothing at all.
10
I'll bet if you went down to Randy's you'd still be able to find some folks who work at Boeing's. When I briefly worked on the paint and plating floor in the 70s the old ladies all said Boeing's.
11
I have found a good cheap Seattle sandwich shop. It's the deli in the little Quick Stop mini-mart on Eastlake between Louisa and Lynn. They have a great selection of breads, use really good ingredients, and they're cheap as hell. Every time I've gotten one there I've been impressed. If you're in the neighborhood, try it out.
13
@11: Is that the one with the "Best Sandwiches in Town!" sign that shares a parking lot with the Starbucks? There's also Pete's just down the hill on the corner of Lynn and Fairview. Decent sandwiches at the deli counter in the back and a GREAT wine selection. I think they use Boar's Head meat, too.
14
Fnarf, perhaps there's some other particular determiner for who calls it "Boeing" versus "Boeing's". All I know is my stepfather, who worked on the B-52 line in the 1950's always used the former, as did my uncle who worked there in the late '60's before the big layoffs, as does my cousin's boyfriend, who works on the 737 line currently.
@9:
Of course, newcomers, with no sense of the history of a place, have less reverence for the old names. I'm sure New Yorkers of a certain age still refer to the area around Lincoln Center as "Hell's Kitchen" even though the neighborhood was completely demolished more than 40 years ago. Does that make them "quaint" in your eyes, because their particular memory of a place extends beyond yours? And does it make Manhattan "lesser" somehow because their knowledge of the past exceeds your own?
I suppose, if the owners of The Empire State Building were to change its name to "The W&H Properties Building", you'd immediately switch to using the new designation, because the owners can call it whatever they want, and the rest of us, in order to not appear to be quaint rubes from the sticks, need to just forget that we've called it something else for the majority of our lives and get with the program, right?
How very Orwellian of you.
History and memory have value, otherwise we wouldn't try so hard to remember it.
@9:
Of course, newcomers, with no sense of the history of a place, have less reverence for the old names. I'm sure New Yorkers of a certain age still refer to the area around Lincoln Center as "Hell's Kitchen" even though the neighborhood was completely demolished more than 40 years ago. Does that make them "quaint" in your eyes, because their particular memory of a place extends beyond yours? And does it make Manhattan "lesser" somehow because their knowledge of the past exceeds your own?
I suppose, if the owners of The Empire State Building were to change its name to "The W&H Properties Building", you'd immediately switch to using the new designation, because the owners can call it whatever they want, and the rest of us, in order to not appear to be quaint rubes from the sticks, need to just forget that we've called it something else for the majority of our lives and get with the program, right?
How very Orwellian of you.
History and memory have value, otherwise we wouldn't try so hard to remember it.
16
Dang, Comte, you gots my number. I'm Orwellian.
Anyhoo...
I suspect some of the ones who insist on obsolete names (not you obviously) are doing it to try to assert dominance over those who (they think) are newcomers. Maybe they look at someone who worked their way up from a podunk small town with a shitty creationist backwards school system to a first class university and then to move to a city with the 3rd highest cost of living in the US and buy a house or condo as some kind of threat. They want to put that kind of person in their place. Somebody who could make it that far could end up signing the paychecks of a lot of natives who's sense of entitlement is feeling kind of bruised...
Not you, of course. I mean other natives.
Anyhoo...
I suspect some of the ones who insist on obsolete names (not you obviously) are doing it to try to assert dominance over those who (they think) are newcomers. Maybe they look at someone who worked their way up from a podunk small town with a shitty creationist backwards school system to a first class university and then to move to a city with the 3rd highest cost of living in the US and buy a house or condo as some kind of threat. They want to put that kind of person in their place. Somebody who could make it that far could end up signing the paychecks of a lot of natives who's sense of entitlement is feeling kind of bruised...
Not you, of course. I mean other natives.
17
at the risk of being snarled at, elenchos is getting crankier every day. if your baby was my baby, i'd be the happiest woman on earth!
18
hey she's talking about my hood! that's farmer and the deli she's naming there. god i love brooklyn.
19
I am happy, Ms. Tyler Moore. How do I not seem happy? I think. I haven't met that many happy people in my life, how do they act?
Ballard hates me now (don't ask), but you know, overall I can't complain. I think I must be happy.
Come to the benefit at the Cretins clubhouse tonight. It's for a good cause. I'm going to act happy, I swear.
Ballard hates me now (don't ask), but you know, overall I can't complain. I think I must be happy.
Come to the benefit at the Cretins clubhouse tonight. It's for a good cause. I'm going to act happy, I swear.
20
Rather than projecting some sort of bizarre civic superiority complex on others elenchos, mayhaps you should contemplate the rather hefty inferiority complex you're putting on display today. Nobody's forcing you to use either the old or the new names for things that have been around since before many of us were born; it's completely your choice.
Me, I prefer to call things by their ORIGINAL names, the one given to them by the people who actually created them, particularly because in most instances, the only reason the names were changed in the first place is because the board of a large (and nowadays often defunct) corporation decided to pay a literally obscene amount of money for the privilege of doing so.
And my apologies to the Cretins, but alas, there are other events for good causes on the bill this evening.
Me, I prefer to call things by their ORIGINAL names, the one given to them by the people who actually created them, particularly because in most instances, the only reason the names were changed in the first place is because the board of a large (and nowadays often defunct) corporation decided to pay a literally obscene amount of money for the privilege of doing so.
And my apologies to the Cretins, but alas, there are other events for good causes on the bill this evening.
22
Ahem. I know it's mildly off-topic, but it's proper to refer to abovementioned fried delights as minidonuts or mini-doughnuts. Anyone who has visited a midwestern State Fair will agreed.
23
It's Pike Street, with a tangent spur connecting Pike St. to Western Ave. That connecting road is a plaza for commerce and pedestrians, hence the assignment of "Place".
24
I think the deli on 7th across from the courthouse serves Boar's Head brand meats. The sandwiches don't really stick in my memory (for good or for ill), however.
25
I just went to the Volunteer Park Cafe with a friend. The pulled pork sandwich ($8.50) and the french dip ($8.00) were both quite possibly the best sandwiches I have had in Seattle ever, though I don't eat out that much. I HIGHLY recommend going there at this very moment, if possible.
26
I'm a 4th-generation Seattlite and I've never heard anyone (including my grandfather, who worked there during WWII) call it Boeing's. Nordstrom's or Nordy's yes.
I've never heard a local say Pike's Place, except perhaps extremely ironically when imitating a tourist. I agree with @8 -- it's *the* market, just like Rainier is *the* mountain. No further description required.
I've never heard a local say Pike's Place, except perhaps extremely ironically when imitating a tourist. I agree with @8 -- it's *the* market, just like Rainier is *the* mountain. No further description required.
27
Only folks who are NOT from Seattle call it "Pike's market" or "Pike Street Market". Locals call it either "the market" or "Pike Place market".
The market is on Pike PLACE--the north/south (or northwest/southeast, if you want to be picky) continuation of Pike Street--not Pike STREET.
The market is on Pike PLACE--the north/south (or northwest/southeast, if you want to be picky) continuation of Pike Street--not Pike STREET.
28
I call it "home" elenchos, which probably translates pretty much the same regardless of whether you're speaking in English or Duwamish.
29
Bakeman dowtown makes tasty cheap turkey sanwiches with white or dark meat carved from turkeys they roast themselves on simple sandwich bread they bake as well
30
Seriously, the "Corned Beef Place" (Market House Corned Beef, on Howell) near the Re-Bar... anyone??? in house cured, they sell their meat to many high end restaurants in town, age of the average customer is about 62. SO GOOD! it even comes with a cookie. How is this place so overlooked???
31
I always thought they named Mt. Rainier after the beer.....
Personally, I still call it The Bon Marche just to annoy people like elenchos, but also because it sounds classier than Macys. When I was growing up (in Iowa, but dad worked in New York about a third of the time, so we traveled there frequently) Macy's were trashy, Sears-with-an-attitude sorts of places. Of course, the same could be said for The Bon back in those days, but that's not important right now.
And then there's Frederick & Nordstorm (or Nordstrom & Nelson, or The Store Previously Known as Frederick & Nelson) which I'm sure is even more vexing and cornball, but I don't care. Nordstrom's lost me after that project. I'm glad they saved the building but they sure butchered the inside.
Anyway, I'm off to Tacoma. I'll probably take the road that runs by Boeing's. Or maybe I'll take the scenic route and go by Longacre's (you know, the road that used to have an Andy's Diner on it). But if I do that, I won't be able to get on the interstate until at least Titusville or maybe even Stuck Junction.
Personally, I still call it The Bon Marche just to annoy people like elenchos, but also because it sounds classier than Macys. When I was growing up (in Iowa, but dad worked in New York about a third of the time, so we traveled there frequently) Macy's were trashy, Sears-with-an-attitude sorts of places. Of course, the same could be said for The Bon back in those days, but that's not important right now.
And then there's Frederick & Nordstorm (or Nordstrom & Nelson, or The Store Previously Known as Frederick & Nelson) which I'm sure is even more vexing and cornball, but I don't care. Nordstrom's lost me after that project. I'm glad they saved the building but they sure butchered the inside.
Anyway, I'm off to Tacoma. I'll probably take the road that runs by Boeing's. Or maybe I'll take the scenic route and go by Longacre's (you know, the road that used to have an Andy's Diner on it). But if I do that, I won't be able to get on the interstate until at least Titusville or maybe even Stuck Junction.
32
I was horrified to hear supposed Seattle resident Carol Hathaway/Juliana Margulies refer to Washington's eastern metropolis as "Spo-KAAAAANE" (long 'a') on last week's E.R.
33
and Honey Hole is waaaaaay overrated. Every time I've gone there, I've been disappointed...it's not bad, just not that great.
34
I Love NY is amazing. Been there twice in the last 2 months and the guy remembered my name yesterday! Plus the same sandwiches at Katz's in NYC would run you about $15. Ill gladly pay the $9 here.
35
@32:
Westerners frequently use the corrupted form of "Spocaine" as a derogatory term. Obviously, it makes more sense when you see it written out.
Westerners frequently use the corrupted form of "Spocaine" as a derogatory term. Obviously, it makes more sense when you see it written out.
36
I'm staying out of this debate over names and possessives. I'll gladly weigh in on the sandwich discussion, though. Check out Slices in South Lake Union -- it very much feels like an East Coast-style bodega. Great, simple sandwiches, and super cheap.
Oh, and @32: That reminds me of when I was living in Atlanta and saw a West Wing episode featuring a criminal case in Dekalb County, Ga. The writers must not have done their research, because they kept calling it "Duh-Cal-b" instead of the proper "Duh-Cab". Pity the TV writers who try to refer to Puyallup or Sequim.
Oh, and @32: That reminds me of when I was living in Atlanta and saw a West Wing episode featuring a criminal case in Dekalb County, Ga. The writers must not have done their research, because they kept calling it "Duh-Cal-b" instead of the proper "Duh-Cab". Pity the TV writers who try to refer to Puyallup or Sequim.
37
Um, back on the original topic, the best cheap sandwiches I know of are the convenience store at the top of Highland Park Way right as it turns into 9th Ave SW, with a close second going to the convenience store on 35th in the neighborhood just south of the reservoir. They both use those excellent chewy yet crusty Gai's sandwich rolls and quality meat, and the veggies are hand cut and kept nice and cold.
Also, the old SUBS shop in the U-District was taken over by a young couple who have largely retained the recipes and didn't raise the prices too much, and while the copacolla isn't quite as good as it used to be, they do a damn convincing NYC style Italian deli sandwich (ie - mayo but with oil and vinegar replacing mustard) as well.
Mr. X has been on vacation, and before reading this post coincidentally happened to have bought a sub sandwich in Manhattan Beach, CA earlier tonight. It was actually very good - a good proper roll they put in the pizza oven just long enough to get it crusty but not so long it lost its chewiness, quality salami and provolone, fresh tomato and lettuce, etc. The only shortcomings were that they put too many onions on it and used regular ham, but it was actually fairly NYC worthy despite that (and, while it was $6.75, it was on a full 12" roll that really made it two sandwiches, one of which will be consumed on the plane home tomorrow).
@9,
Seattle will never be the "world class city" newcomers like you crave (or intend to impose on longtime residents, depending how you look at it) without recognizing and honoring its history. Ever been to Europe, or NYC?
Also, the old SUBS shop in the U-District was taken over by a young couple who have largely retained the recipes and didn't raise the prices too much, and while the copacolla isn't quite as good as it used to be, they do a damn convincing NYC style Italian deli sandwich (ie - mayo but with oil and vinegar replacing mustard) as well.
Mr. X has been on vacation, and before reading this post coincidentally happened to have bought a sub sandwich in Manhattan Beach, CA earlier tonight. It was actually very good - a good proper roll they put in the pizza oven just long enough to get it crusty but not so long it lost its chewiness, quality salami and provolone, fresh tomato and lettuce, etc. The only shortcomings were that they put too many onions on it and used regular ham, but it was actually fairly NYC worthy despite that (and, while it was $6.75, it was on a full 12" roll that really made it two sandwiches, one of which will be consumed on the plane home tomorrow).
@9,
Seattle will never be the "world class city" newcomers like you crave (or intend to impose on longtime residents, depending how you look at it) without recognizing and honoring its history. Ever been to Europe, or NYC?
38
@3 your comment completely sucked and ruined the whole thread! My fiance is from NY and grew up in Philly, so between his family and him I know a thing or two about awesome sandwiches, but too hell with hoagies, I am now thinking about the plural or possessive form of what I tend to simply call the market. Pike Place Market if speaking to someone who lives outside of the city, just to be courteous (ok, the real reason is so I don't have to explain myself). The Market. Pike Place Market. The plural or possessive form of which
I HATE!
I HATE!
39
Um, as the person who started this "pike's place" vs. "pike place" mess I am sorry. I have to type comments fast, because I have limited to NO time on the internet at work. So many times I will misspell things I know how to spell, or put a 's on shit just by accident, not thinking about it. I have lived here almost my entire life. In general conversation I say "the market".
But this reminds me of the ol Soda vs Pop vs Soda Pop argument.
But this reminds me of the ol Soda vs Pop vs Soda Pop argument.
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