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News & ArtsWednesday, March 11, 2009
News Stewart v. Cramer
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 8:05 AM
This is gettin' good...
Hooray for the bendehos pendejos!
2
yeah i hope dora and stewart kick cramer's bitchy little ass.
i would have thought that colbert would have jon's back though. maybe tonight.
i would have thought that colbert would have jon's back though. maybe tonight.
7
There's a classic quote I love from the movie "Stand and Deliver" that says (in gloriuous spanglish) "Don't call me gordita, pendejo!" (don't call me fatty, dumbass).
11
The beautiful thing is, Stewart will just keep it up until they stop responding at all. The more they try to defend themselves or get some digs in at him/TDS, the longer Stewart will drag it on.
12
I think there's some serious questions being raised here; or at least, some serious questions that should be raised here.
CNBC et al tend to treat business news as this objective, scientific thing. But, it isn't. Economy is as much art as is Jon Stewart's comedy. Stewart was poking holes in this sacred belief; for example, showing the tagline that CNBC uses "In Cramer We Trust."
The narrative of economy as science is being challenged. The absolutists who believe that we can science our way out of this slump are weakened. The Prophets (profits?) of CNBC have been called to the reckoning, and they are stumbling all over themselves. How DARE a "Comedian" question them!
...but really, who else is going to do it? Who else IS doing it? Scarborough et al are so wedded to their unproven ideology that they can't, for a moment, stop to reflect upon how we got into this mess.
CNBC is not bullet proof. We have to mature in our understanding of economies, and the media needs to do a better job of helping us understand this new narrative. Cramer needs to show some humility, as does all of CNBC. If they are unwilling, on their own, to show some true reflection on their roles in the mess, then of course it will fall to others to point that out.
CNBC et al tend to treat business news as this objective, scientific thing. But, it isn't. Economy is as much art as is Jon Stewart's comedy. Stewart was poking holes in this sacred belief; for example, showing the tagline that CNBC uses "In Cramer We Trust."
The narrative of economy as science is being challenged. The absolutists who believe that we can science our way out of this slump are weakened. The Prophets (profits?) of CNBC have been called to the reckoning, and they are stumbling all over themselves. How DARE a "Comedian" question them!
...but really, who else is going to do it? Who else IS doing it? Scarborough et al are so wedded to their unproven ideology that they can't, for a moment, stop to reflect upon how we got into this mess.
CNBC is not bullet proof. We have to mature in our understanding of economies, and the media needs to do a better job of helping us understand this new narrative. Cramer needs to show some humility, as does all of CNBC. If they are unwilling, on their own, to show some true reflection on their roles in the mess, then of course it will fall to others to point that out.
13
Ehhhhh, seemed a little whiny and over the top. John's better when he's grinning and catty then when he whispering and faux-scared.
15
I've been saying for years that if the so-called "experts" really had the stock market figured out as much as they'd like us to think they do, they'd all be retired and sipping pina coladas on a beach somewhere instead of working for a living.
16
@12 You make some good points, but sophisticated investors subscribe to portfolio theory and leave stock-picking to the lucky and, just as often, the unlucky. No investor well schooled in the theory of finance bothers to watch Cramer or anything like it. The price of a stock, especially a widely traded stock, already contains the combined wisdom of many invested parties. That is, it's tough to find a real bargain. The science of finance is well beyond what we see on CNBC already, and I agree that it would be better for everyone to have this understanding of economics. The paradox, as was pointed out by my Investments professor, is that without thousands of people trying to pick stocks, the prices would no longer contain their combined wisdom and then stock picking would become a good strategy. As is, though, no one should bother. Just put it all in broad index-tracking fund.
17
Oops, meant to have an "s" at the end of my post. "Just put it all in broad index-tracking funds."
@15: I agree completely, although there are real experts out there and they are not stock pickers. The one curious exception is Warren Buffet.
@15: I agree completely, although there are real experts out there and they are not stock pickers. The one curious exception is Warren Buffet.
18
Where would we be without satire? Newspaperless? Another Republican president? Broke? BROKE FUCKING ECONOMY? The same people who now want to blame Obama for the economy are the same people who DROVE US OVER A CLIFF!
20
@16 David...I think you and I are saying the same thing, essentially. The point is that CNBC is not above reproach, and that Jon Stewart is as qualified to poke holes in their story as is anyone. Financial news reporting has become, as I understand it, "Pop Investing" rather than sound advice; it's sort of the Nancy Grace of the financial world.
I say poke holes, and lots of them.
I say poke holes, and lots of them.
21
I thought "pendejo" meant "pubic hair" not "jackass". Which is even funnier. Whichever it is, Cramer is it to the nth degree.
I agree with David 100%, but I don't think Cramer or his ilk is being put forward as infallible. They have all the standard disclaimers, and the Cramers of this world tend to (sort of) acknowledge (some of) their mistakes.
What's egregious about Cramer in this case isn't that he made the wrong call about Bear Stearns; it's WHY he made it. Cramer appears to not actually know anything about how the economy or even the stock market works, except in the narrowest of ranges. In short, bull markets make everybody look like a genius -- even the losers can say "look, eighteen percent!" when the average is twenty. Every bull market throws up these characters. If they want to be successful, they need a gimmick, though, like the little old ladies club, or the "look what I did from my dorm room" guy, or Cramer with his caged-animal screaming and pacing.
But when it crumbles, guys like Cramer all too quickly resort to outrageous lies to protect themselves. I think Cramer seriously believes (or believed) that he has the power to move the market. I'll bet he got CREAMED by Bear Stearns personally, and I think he was pushing them right to the end to protect HIMSELF.
He knew what was happening, and he knew what he was saying was wrong. I'm dismayed that it hasn't destroyed his reputation completely. It should have. Once again Stewart, the outsider, is the only one in the news business will the balls to call these guys out. Cramer and Scarborough should be selling pencils on the sidewalk instead of glowing "white and bitter" (great line) in a TV studio.
I agree with David 100%, but I don't think Cramer or his ilk is being put forward as infallible. They have all the standard disclaimers, and the Cramers of this world tend to (sort of) acknowledge (some of) their mistakes.
What's egregious about Cramer in this case isn't that he made the wrong call about Bear Stearns; it's WHY he made it. Cramer appears to not actually know anything about how the economy or even the stock market works, except in the narrowest of ranges. In short, bull markets make everybody look like a genius -- even the losers can say "look, eighteen percent!" when the average is twenty. Every bull market throws up these characters. If they want to be successful, they need a gimmick, though, like the little old ladies club, or the "look what I did from my dorm room" guy, or Cramer with his caged-animal screaming and pacing.
But when it crumbles, guys like Cramer all too quickly resort to outrageous lies to protect themselves. I think Cramer seriously believes (or believed) that he has the power to move the market. I'll bet he got CREAMED by Bear Stearns personally, and I think he was pushing them right to the end to protect HIMSELF.
He knew what was happening, and he knew what he was saying was wrong. I'm dismayed that it hasn't destroyed his reputation completely. It should have. Once again Stewart, the outsider, is the only one in the news business will the balls to call these guys out. Cramer and Scarborough should be selling pencils on the sidewalk instead of glowing "white and bitter" (great line) in a TV studio.
22
Timothy: I agree. We are saying the same thing, and I suspect that John Stewart knows a little something about portfolio theory but is keeping that to himself. Nevertheless, stock pickers who watch CNBC need to keep at it or the whole system breaks down and smart portfolio investors will need to start slogging through balance sheets and income statements. I suspect that there will always be a market for CNBC and that market will be for the Warren Buffet wannabes who think they can beat the market. In other words, Stewart could expose them but they won't understand it just like gamblers believe in luck and keep going back for more. Stock pickers are in our best interest. They are like the single-celled organisms at the base of the food chain.
Check out a good related discussion over here:
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
Check out a good related discussion over here:
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
23
Fnarf: Great post. You know more about Cramer and his ilk and you said it far better than I could have.
24
This Cramer/Stewart crap is nearly as petty as the Goat Sucking/KOMO News diatribe Saint Dan went on for weeks and weeks. Boring and inane. I hate clicking away from the Daily Show, but this made me do it.
30
29
"Tongue"
That is how we spell it in the rest of the English speaking world.
Oh, and you are in New Zealand? Sure you are.
"Tongue"
That is how we spell it in the rest of the English speaking world.
Oh, and you are in New Zealand? Sure you are.
31
This was funny.
And it's why I watch those financial shows with a large bucket full of salt (a grain of salt is not enough).
And it's why I watch those financial shows with a large bucket full of salt (a grain of salt is not enough).
32
Wow, at least each his his/her own opinion. I for one think that this has been one of John's best weeks. I've been rolling on the floor since monday.
33
I love watching Stewart take people down. Same thing as with Tucker Carlson and Chris Matthews: when Stewart calls your bullshit, he does so in a way that absolutely goes for the jugular.
34
David et al, all great points made, but I think Stewart goes further than stock picking vs. modern portfolio theory (where, by the way, you would have still lost your ass in this downturn). For example, CNBC pushes the madness of crowds by pumping the market up. Do you ever see them seriously say get the heck out for an extended period because this is scary? I was at a financial conference in April 2007 and asked what the close was to a stranger when Maria Bartiromo turned around announcing 13,300, up 200 on the Dow. To which I responded "Sell!" She was in complete denial that at some point there has to be a top. And this in the face of Wall Street's pump and dump approach. One could see trouble in 2007, yet few really dug in to find out what is different. And CNBC (and Fox for that matter) cling to capitalism as being perfect, never questioning what did they miss, or what systemic issue exists (to be fair, there are exceptions - Mark Haynes, David Faber, Joe Kernan-sp?). Have any of them dug into possible explanations such as the Tragedy of the Commons which tries to show that individuals acting in their own best interest can create a societal calamity? To not question what changes should be made is outright insane. And I'm a devout capitalist!
And what gets us ticked off most is the arrogance of these people to not see that they have led innocents to their slaughter. Unbelieveable. Then some are agast at government restriction on CEO pay until the bailout loan is repaid. Hello? It's called a loan covenant. If you want "intervention", how about dealing with a bank loan in the worst of times where they approve each and every disbursement for a $200 million business (I lived through one of those). Pretty SOP when you get in the soup -- you get to eat the crap sandwich.
I'm more of a Colbert guy than Stewart, but many kudos to Stewart et al on this one.
More...
And what gets us ticked off most is the arrogance of these people to not see that they have led innocents to their slaughter. Unbelieveable. Then some are agast at government restriction on CEO pay until the bailout loan is repaid. Hello? It's called a loan covenant. If you want "intervention", how about dealing with a bank loan in the worst of times where they approve each and every disbursement for a $200 million business (I lived through one of those). Pretty SOP when you get in the soup -- you get to eat the crap sandwich.
I'm more of a Colbert guy than Stewart, but many kudos to Stewart et al on this one.
35
I've never heard of this "stock pickers are the idiots who keep the market more accurate" theory, but I like it. Sort of like how your Vegas betting line is accurate because it includes everyone, smart and dumb, and the Hive Mind is smarter than any of us. So, yeah, keep on trying to beat that market.
I suspect a lot of people will be, as there are surely some super bargains out there now in this indiscriminate trough.
I suspect a lot of people will be, as there are surely some super bargains out there now in this indiscriminate trough.
36
Jon Stewart should get his own news channel. He seems to be the only man left who can give it to us straight. IE: After the SOTU Address, after Obama had just gotten done saying Americans are hard workers, when Jon pulls out the BACONNAISE! aka bacon and mayo because Americans are too damn lazy to make bacon, and then he stuffs a microwaveable pancake/hot dog on a stick thing in there and nearly eats it. It was hilarious.
37
To be fair, this is not a standard market crash, where stocks are overvalued on their own ticket. It's the underlying credit market that's killing these companies and their profitability (which used to be important, at any rate). Bank stocks, sure, but regular companies aren't necessarily fundamentally unsound. When the recession ends in a year or so they will be back.
38
Gym: Amen to that. I've heard that research shows it to be impossible to consistently time highs and lows in the market, but perhaps when even unwashed peasants are buying tulip bulbs, it's time to get out of the tulip bulb market (if I get your reference). I'm with Fnarf, though, that the market will be back. And I'm looking forward to reading about whether the equity premium puzzle will have remained unsolved.
39
Here is a fun site to go through if you have an hour or two....I find it fascinating and plausable with all the FOIA request info to back it up.
Basically Jim Cramer probably cleaned up on the Bear Stearns fiasco by shorting. He is implicated all over this document:
http://www.deepcapture.com/the-story-of-…
No, not that Mark Mitchell! A different one.
Basically Jim Cramer probably cleaned up on the Bear Stearns fiasco by shorting. He is implicated all over this document:
http://www.deepcapture.com/the-story-of-…
No, not that Mark Mitchell! A different one.
40
Fnarf & David, agreed. However, one cannot isolate the stock market from credit markets or other aspects of the economy. This recession is unique because Wall Street got hold of a debt instrument through CMBS and went to town. I expect the stock market, if it were completely efficient, to take those sorts of things into effect. And in fact, some investors did (Seattle's Bill Fleckenstein amongst the notables), but obviously way too many didn't. And this adversely affected the sinners and the rest of us very big.
Ironically, we are a lot closer to a point to jump back; ironic because we are feeling the pain the most now. Remember that when the euphoria feels great on the next boom. That should be your signal to cut back or get out.
Ironically, we are a lot closer to a point to jump back; ironic because we are feeling the pain the most now. Remember that when the euphoria feels great on the next boom. That should be your signal to cut back or get out.
44
This clip is why Jon Stewart is my hero. Thank goodness we have him and Colbert to mock and point out things with not just politics, but also with the media.
45
@6, this is more than a dart board. Going the opposite of him is a excellent investment strategy. It's almost as though he is trying to con his audience so that others may get rich selling stocks high when they are about to go low.
47
To all those who say that Jon Stewart should stick to comedy (and not bore us with serious issues) I suggest the following: the Daily Show is all about satire, which is only sometimes funny. Satire means treating the shortcomings of those in power to ridicule, parody and sarcasm, all presented in a humorous fashion, in order to bring about improvement. In other words: call the powerful out on their bull***t. This is something we should do early and often. Our Founding Fathers call on us, nay demand that we use our precious freedom of speech to crush tyranny in any and all its forms. This is the job set aside for the free press (i.e. the News Networks.) A job News Networks all too often fail to do. People like Jon Stewart hold this self-evident truth in their bones, and We the People need to follow his example. Say it loud and say it proud: “Mr. CEO, do what’s right or we’ll through your ass in jail!”
Who watches the Watchers? Answer: Jon Stewart.
Power to the people. Rock on.
Who watches the Watchers? Answer: Jon Stewart.
Power to the people. Rock on.
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