Thursday, March 5, 2009
Olympia WA State Stimulus Bill: No $ for Seattle, but $40 Million to Widen Suburban Freeway
Posted by Erica C. Barnett on Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Today, Governor Christine Gregoire is signing a transportation stimulus package that not only includes no money for Seattle, but features a big, fat handout to suburban highway expansion. The $341 million state stimulus package includes $40 million to expand an exurban stretch of I-405 between NE 195th St. and SR 527 innorth of Bothell by one lane. That lane, which represents more than 10 percent of the state's total stimulus spending, will be general-purpose, not HOV, and is not a new project, meaning it doesn't meet the Obama administration's transportation stimulus criteria. (It also includes no pedestrian, bike, or transit accessibility components, and is an expansion, not a maintenance, project). The expansion was originally supposed to be paid for with state gas-tax revenues—which have decreased, ironically, because people are driving less.
(Thanks to the Transportation Choices Coalition for alerting us to the 405 $$!)
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2
Outrageous. Remind me why we keep electing these people, especially Gregoire? There has to be a better option.
3
So, since "it doesn't meet the Obama administration's transportation stimulus criteria" how is she getting away with doing that? How can she be stopped?
4
Seriously, is there anything to be done about this? I've already expressed my displeasure about the idea of roadbuilding stimulus to my legislators, which did about as much good as pissing in the wind.
5
NEWS FLASH: most people drive cars. If you add an HOV lane it isn't going to help traffic on the 405 at all.
6
Uh, yo, Erica: Bothell is a straight-up suburb, not an exurb.
Further, this project makes biking to the UW Bothell campus about 950 times easier by helping direct more traffic off 195th and Main St. through downtown Bothell and onto the 527 connector. Less bikers will be hit by dumb students at this pseudo-college. So I am in favor of this project.
And you really should get out to Bothell and take a look. It's only a 20 minute ride by "car," if you can find it in yourself to locate one.
Further, this project makes biking to the UW Bothell campus about 950 times easier by helping direct more traffic off 195th and Main St. through downtown Bothell and onto the 527 connector. Less bikers will be hit by dumb students at this pseudo-college. So I am in favor of this project.
And you really should get out to Bothell and take a look. It's only a 20 minute ride by "car," if you can find it in yourself to locate one.
7
Oh hey check out this:
Federal Economic Recovery Funding - New 3/05/09 2:03 p.m.
The Puget Sound Regional Council (PSRC) is seeking public comment on projects recommended for funding through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, an estimated $78 million in Federal Highways Administration funding and $136 million in Federal Transit Administration funding.
And Seattle has projects on PSRC's list
http://www.psrc.org/
Federal Economic Recovery Funding - New 3/05/09 2:03 p.m.
The Puget Sound Regional Council (PSRC) is seeking public comment on projects recommended for funding through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, an estimated $78 million in Federal Highways Administration funding and $136 million in Federal Transit Administration funding.
And Seattle has projects on PSRC's list
http://www.psrc.org/
8
Did you folks know that she is their governor too? Some people who don't live in Seattle count too. There are also some people who'd appreciate a wider freeway and don't care for your anti-automobile agenda.
9
while Bothell is not an exurb, general purpose road expansion in the suburbs will lead to more exurban access and sprawling development.
10
"while Bothell is not an exurb, general purpose road expansion in the suburbs will lead to more exurban access and sprawling development."
I hope that is not considered a bad thing with a troubled economy.
I hope that is not considered a bad thing with a troubled economy.
11
@1, 5, 6, 8 and the millions of cookie-cutter people exactly like you: OK, so most people drive cars and live in suburbs. Does that make it ideal, preferable, or the slightest bit sustainable? No. It just means that most Americans value relative convenience over forming a thriving cultural center with a sense of community. This is at the root of a whole host of cultural problems, not just transportation costs.
14
@11 Look, my husband and I live in Seattle and don't drive unless we have to, but it's beyond urban elitism to think that people are just selfish if they live otherwise. How many families could afford a house in Seattle proper over the last few years? Suburbs aren't exactly "convenient", and people don't always move there for the reasons you think.
15
For once Government makes the right choice. Seattle is an overpriced too dense hell hole. Get out...GET OUT NOW!!!
17
I agree that we generally should avoid building exurban megafreeways to encourage sprawl, but sprawl has ALREADY arrived in that area, and the stretch of 405 between 195th & 527 is badly choked. Frankly it could use another lane. And there ALREADY is an hov lane there.
Yeah I'm pissed that Seattle isn't getting any help, but I would encourage Stranger staff to get out in the region once in a while instead of making pronouncements from the confines of the Pike/Pine neighborhood.
Yeah I'm pissed that Seattle isn't getting any help, but I would encourage Stranger staff to get out in the region once in a while instead of making pronouncements from the confines of the Pike/Pine neighborhood.
18
@11, is that a joke?
We have a sense of community and you can keep your "thriving culture" in Seattle, unless that was meant as an ironic joke.
We have a sense of community and you can keep your "thriving culture" in Seattle, unless that was meant as an ironic joke.
19
Actually, Hernandez et al are right.
Seriously, do you guys EVER GET OFF THE HILL?
Bet you think Ballard is still filled with old Swedes and Danes ...
Seriously, do you guys EVER GET OFF THE HILL?
Bet you think Ballard is still filled with old Swedes and Danes ...
20
I live in Bothell, but I don't usually drive that stretch of road because my exit is just south of there and I usually commute by bicycle anyway.
Still, I think this is a waste of money. Yeah, traffic sucks, but building more highway lanes will just make traffic worse. I'd much prefer a circulator bus or streetcar connecting the transit center at UW Bothell, the park and ride near Bothell's downtown, the park and ride at Canyon Park, and the North Creek area (including a stop at Staples where the Microsoft shuttle is). The biggest problem in getting around this area is access to the main transit nodes. A series of circulators or branch lines feeding into a beefed up transit corridor on 522 (Bothell Way/Lake City Way) would be a great way to get people out of cars in an area that just doesn't have the density to support a light rail spur, and it would encourage that density along the transit corridors in the long run.
But really, the problem is that the overall pie of infrastructure projects, particularly transit projects, is way too small. So city is pitted against suburb and each suburb against the others and we end up with too few projects too concentrated on more of what already doesn't work.
Still, I think this is a waste of money. Yeah, traffic sucks, but building more highway lanes will just make traffic worse. I'd much prefer a circulator bus or streetcar connecting the transit center at UW Bothell, the park and ride near Bothell's downtown, the park and ride at Canyon Park, and the North Creek area (including a stop at Staples where the Microsoft shuttle is). The biggest problem in getting around this area is access to the main transit nodes. A series of circulators or branch lines feeding into a beefed up transit corridor on 522 (Bothell Way/Lake City Way) would be a great way to get people out of cars in an area that just doesn't have the density to support a light rail spur, and it would encourage that density along the transit corridors in the long run.
But really, the problem is that the overall pie of infrastructure projects, particularly transit projects, is way too small. So city is pitted against suburb and each suburb against the others and we end up with too few projects too concentrated on more of what already doesn't work.
21
uh, that part of 405 NEEDS widening and it's not the exurbs....tons of people live in that area and even more importantly, tons of people WORK in that area; there are many call centers with hundreds if not thousands of employees. (yes, I used to live and work in that area). Ideally, they would improve mass transit/rail to that area, but that's several billion dollars and 20 years away.
22
@11: I can't think of anything more cookie cutter than urban dwelling cultural snobs like yourself Emily. Suggesting that avoiding a cookie cutter lifestyle would be to live in a dense urban center just like yourself is the height of hypocrisy. Personally, I much prefer the culture and identity of Seattle to the suburbs, but I'd never even begin to suggest that there is anything even remotely unique about the residents of the city. Seattle is about as homogenized of a culture as I can imagine.
The folks across the lake from you are your neighbors, and they spend far too much time idling on the freeway waiting for traffic to clear up while burning gasoline than they should be. While a train, or more buses might also be viable options to ease this pain, the article is highlighting the idea that our governor is committing some sort of betrayal by spending money outside of the city limits. How selfish. How self-important. Disgusting.
The folks across the lake from you are your neighbors, and they spend far too much time idling on the freeway waiting for traffic to clear up while burning gasoline than they should be. While a train, or more buses might also be viable options to ease this pain, the article is highlighting the idea that our governor is committing some sort of betrayal by spending money outside of the city limits. How selfish. How self-important. Disgusting.
23
"If you add an HOV lane it isn't going to help traffic on the 405 at all"
Your Californian is showing.
Your Californian is showing.
25
@11 I'm just pointing out Erica's semantic error. She seems to have a tendency to call anything outside the Seattle city limits an "exurb".
26
It's the transportation version of the chicken and the egg.
Expanding freeways vs. sprawling suburbs.
Why are we still building to cater to single-occupant cars? I forget.
Expanding freeways vs. sprawling suburbs.
Why are we still building to cater to single-occupant cars? I forget.
27
I partly take back what I just wrote...Cascadian has the best solution to the traffic mess in that area.
It would also help if the goddamned developers of those huge office parks had encouraged/designed some diversity into those areas. There's very, very few food options and if you work in those parks, you're foreced to either bring your lunch, or get on the highway to drive someplace to find food...
It would also help if the goddamned developers of those huge office parks had encouraged/designed some diversity into those areas. There's very, very few food options and if you work in those parks, you're foreced to either bring your lunch, or get on the highway to drive someplace to find food...
28
Suburbs can be exurbs. An exurb is a "bedroom community" -- people live there, and work, shop, and recreate somewhere else. Bothell is kind of a mix but still mostly exurb.
Wow, all those black, latino, and southeast asian people living in south Seattle are filthy rich now? Or are you counting "white flight" as one of the reasons we're not thinking of?
How many families could afford a house in Seattle proper over the last few years? Suburbs aren't exactly "convenient", and people don't always move there for the reasons you think.
Wow, all those black, latino, and southeast asian people living in south Seattle are filthy rich now? Or are you counting "white flight" as one of the reasons we're not thinking of?
29
Cascadian and @27, thanks for bringing the conversation back to earth.
What makes things such a mess throughout the region is that even if you wanted to live within walking distance of your eastside office-park job, there's no housing there. Nope. No markets, no daycare, etc. Euclidian zoning meant not building location efficiency or transportation choice into any of these growing communities. The result - you need a car just to cross the street in some places.
What makes things such a mess throughout the region is that even if you wanted to live within walking distance of your eastside office-park job, there's no housing there. Nope. No markets, no daycare, etc. Euclidian zoning meant not building location efficiency or transportation choice into any of these growing communities. The result - you need a car just to cross the street in some places.
30
Stop carping about how people who live in the 'burbs and drive everywhere should get special privileges; cars are not a human right. Until people start sucking it up a little and stop blithely accepting sprawl as "just the way it is," cities are just going to keep sprawling and that morning commute you always gripe about is just going to get longer and more expensive.
No, not everyone can afford to live close in in Seattle. You know why? Because development doesn't support it. Instead, we're throwing money away on shit like freeways that are in direct opposition to everything we need to achieve in transforming our urban centers in the coming years.
And by the way, take a walk through West Seattle or Shoreline sometime and tell me if you still think that only the pampered rich can live west of the lake. I live near Green Lake and I make twelve bucks an hour. I use public transit. I don't eat out. What an elitist fucker I must be, huh?
No, not everyone can afford to live close in in Seattle. You know why? Because development doesn't support it. Instead, we're throwing money away on shit like freeways that are in direct opposition to everything we need to achieve in transforming our urban centers in the coming years.
And by the way, take a walk through West Seattle or Shoreline sometime and tell me if you still think that only the pampered rich can live west of the lake. I live near Green Lake and I make twelve bucks an hour. I use public transit. I don't eat out. What an elitist fucker I must be, huh?
33
I should've been clear - it's at the northern end of I-405, north of Bothell, and it feeds the exurbs.
34
It's not a waste of money to fix a bottleneck. There's a ton of traffic that comes onto I-405 from the 195th st exit from UW Cascadia and the Office parks and than gets off again onto Hwy 527 going north on the next exit up the fwy.
A lot of congestion is caused by this and also from the people in the HOV Lane having to cut across two lanes of traffic to get onto Hwy 527 to go north.
Seriously, take a drive sometime and actually see what goes on outside of Seattle at somepoint. In fact, you should purposefully drive out to a suburb and do the commute(in a car) some morning so that you can see what the other 3/4 of the region gets up and does every day.
And really, its uninformed posts like this that color the perceptions of everyone who lives outside of the city as to what Seattlelites are like and thier attitudes. And than you turn around in the next post and muse on why people are so anti Seattle and anti-urban in general.
A lot of congestion is caused by this and also from the people in the HOV Lane having to cut across two lanes of traffic to get onto Hwy 527 to go north.
Seriously, take a drive sometime and actually see what goes on outside of Seattle at somepoint. In fact, you should purposefully drive out to a suburb and do the commute(in a car) some morning so that you can see what the other 3/4 of the region gets up and does every day.
And really, its uninformed posts like this that color the perceptions of everyone who lives outside of the city as to what Seattlelites are like and thier attitudes. And than you turn around in the next post and muse on why people are so anti Seattle and anti-urban in general.
37
"The result - you need a car just to cross the street in some places."
Ah, this must be that "sense of community" they're so proud of.
You know, the best fix for four lanes of gridlock is...six lanes of gridlock!
Ah, this must be that "sense of community" they're so proud of.
You know, the best fix for four lanes of gridlock is...six lanes of gridlock!
38
why don't they just wait for light rail or move to where they can take light rail and then drive from the light rail station? the exurbs supported by light rail will be way better.
39
Good point, but the light rail expansion won't be in the stimulus package and won't be before 2020 anyway.
The stimulus is for building things NOW, @38.
The stimulus is for building things NOW, @38.
40
hi everybody, the only thing building bigger freeways does is build bigger traffic. no shit, right? guess not.
i am a dreaded Californian transplant who grew up in a LA suburb, by the way. sowwy for moving to your town.
re: seattle elitism: i make $1300 a month and live in seattle. i do, however, have to make sacrifices. but anything is better than living in a shithole suburb that reminds me of the shithole suburb i grew up in. i will take seattle, which, contrary to the limited perceptions of bacon (#22), is a way more diverse and interesting place than any suburb i have ever been, ever. but if all you can see is what you hate, i guess it's easy to be mistaken.
i am a dreaded Californian transplant who grew up in a LA suburb, by the way. sowwy for moving to your town.
re: seattle elitism: i make $1300 a month and live in seattle. i do, however, have to make sacrifices. but anything is better than living in a shithole suburb that reminds me of the shithole suburb i grew up in. i will take seattle, which, contrary to the limited perceptions of bacon (#22), is a way more diverse and interesting place than any suburb i have ever been, ever. but if all you can see is what you hate, i guess it's easy to be mistaken.
41
I should say that most of the suburban cities in Northshore are doing a good job of planning denser and more walkable communities. Bothell is too sprawling for it all to be improved, but much of that sprawl is in Snohomish County and the King County core of the city is developing a downtown plan that is zoning 6-8 story mixed-use buildings along Bothell-Everett Way to replace current single-story strip malls, and a conversion of a five lane state highway that carries half as many people at peak (44,000) as the Alaskan Way Viaduct into a multi-way boulevard on the model of Octavia Street in San Francisco.
I think the recession is going to delay the implementation of those plans simply because there's a collapse in demand for commercial real estate, but as soon as things pick up the zoning will be in place and it's really going to make a huge difference.
Kenmore, Lake Forest Park, and Woodinville all have similar plans, though Bothell's seems the best of the lot. And just to the north, Lynnwood is planning to become the next Bellevue with blocks of 30-story zoning.
I think the recession is going to delay the implementation of those plans simply because there's a collapse in demand for commercial real estate, but as soon as things pick up the zoning will be in place and it's really going to make a huge difference.
Kenmore, Lake Forest Park, and Woodinville all have similar plans, though Bothell's seems the best of the lot. And just to the north, Lynnwood is planning to become the next Bellevue with blocks of 30-story zoning.
42
How about through traffic? Freeways are not the exclusive domain of commuters. I've been stuck there many times on weekends going too & from the mountains - is it better just to sit & idle? Or is it evil that I like to hike in the mountains instead of skulking around an urban wasteland?
43
@40 The "elitist" Seattlite label has less to do with income brackets or socioeconomic status (obviously -- no rich, important and/or powerful person is either writing Slog posts or commenting here) than with the laughable hypocrisy of pretending that Seattle dwellers know what's best for the rest of the state/Nation based on some utopian science fiction version of themselves that's never made it out of blue ribbon panel studies.
People in Bothell or the awful, awful exurbs may not have the high culture of a Wild Rose or a Neighbors booming loud bass into their sleepy bedroom communities, but this is where our jobs are, and where there are halfway decent schools for our kids. I would love a high speed rail system out here to make up for the shitty Eastside bus service, but for the foreseeable few decades I'm stuck in my damn car every night on I-405.
People in Bothell or the awful, awful exurbs may not have the high culture of a Wild Rose or a Neighbors booming loud bass into their sleepy bedroom communities, but this is where our jobs are, and where there are halfway decent schools for our kids. I would love a high speed rail system out here to make up for the shitty Eastside bus service, but for the foreseeable few decades I'm stuck in my damn car every night on I-405.
45
Ah Will, the point was that the people of Bothell won't have any option for a long, long time because light rail won't be there so they need something. ECB supports LR that goes to suburbs from which the riders will go even further out to the exurbs and beyond.
46
@40, exactly. I find it interesting that people will get so riled up defending suburbs as if something other than their own bourgeois life choices made them end up there.
47
And I should clarify: it's not that you don't choose to live in an urban center (Bacon Bothell resident, et al.) Different strokes for different folks. I grew up in a town with 800 residents where everyone knew each other. It's respectable, but not for me.
No, the problem is that you CHOOSE to live driving distance away from where you work, which no one in the world even had the luxury of doing until the last century. Pretending it's not a lifestyle choice is just plain bullshit. I'm an elitist? That's fine. But who the fuck gave you the right to spew pollution all over the place just so you can have a bigger space to put your HDTV?
Disgusting.
No, the problem is that you CHOOSE to live driving distance away from where you work, which no one in the world even had the luxury of doing until the last century. Pretending it's not a lifestyle choice is just plain bullshit. I'm an elitist? That's fine. But who the fuck gave you the right to spew pollution all over the place just so you can have a bigger space to put your HDTV?
Disgusting.
48
Emily, I think I've read some good stuff from you in the past, but fuck you. As if you don't produce a carbon footprint. And as if your life wouldn't suck if all 3.4m Puget Sound residents lived in the city limits.
The founding fathers gave me the right to do what I want. Of course it's a "lifestyle choice." My life, my choice. I choose to live where my kids have safe schools and I don't have to worry about home invasions. If you don't like it, try to get laws passed to stop me. Until then, fuck off with your self-righteous blather.
But who the fuck gave you the right to spew pollution all over the place just so you can have a bigger space to put your HDTV?
Emily, I think I've read some good stuff from you in the past, but fuck you. As if you don't produce a carbon footprint. And as if your life wouldn't suck if all 3.4m Puget Sound residents lived in the city limits.
The founding fathers gave me the right to do what I want. Of course it's a "lifestyle choice." My life, my choice. I choose to live where my kids have safe schools and I don't have to worry about home invasions. If you don't like it, try to get laws passed to stop me. Until then, fuck off with your self-righteous blather.
49
I used to live a couple blocks from where I worked - then my work moved. I live in a townhouse in a suburb because that's all I could afford. Places closer to downtown are double the price &I have two kids. It's not realistic to rent forever in some box in the sky.
Another thing to consider if you happen to live in an ivory tower downtown. Where do you think all that 'stuff' around you came from? Outside the city. I don't see how a downtown core is any more sustainable than a suburb.
Another thing to consider if you happen to live in an ivory tower downtown. Where do you think all that 'stuff' around you came from? Outside the city. I don't see how a downtown core is any more sustainable than a suburb.
50
I think every time a Stranger writer gratuitously uses the term "exurb" he or she should receive a strong electric shock.
52
God you guys are stupid. you ask "How do we keep electing these officials?" It's because a lot of Seattleites are hung on voting STRAIGHT Democrat. You REFUSE to do otherwise. Because, oh my gosh, what would your peers think? You have to keep up that fake pretentious overeducated act, don't you? When will Seattle learn....
This is almost as funny as a Republicanator (THE GOVERNATOR) being governor of a well-known liberal state. How the hell did that happen?
Are we all really that stupid?
This is almost as funny as a Republicanator (THE GOVERNATOR) being governor of a well-known liberal state. How the hell did that happen?
Are we all really that stupid?
53
Please, stop sprawl! I want everyone to be forced to live in close to Seattle and drive up my home's value!
54
Hey fucking idiot:
if you SHARE THE STIMULUS DOLLARS so that SOME OF IT GOES TO URBAN TRANSIT AND SOME TO SUBURBAN HIGHWAYS then no one is forcing anything on anyone.
But if you DON'T SHARE AND HOG ALL THE MONEY FOR SPRAWL PROJECTS you are the fucking greedy asshole "forcing" your choices on the rest of us.
no one is saying ALL the dollars should go to seattle butyou guys are saying NONE of them should.
You fucking idiotic greedy lying asshole.
if you SHARE THE STIMULUS DOLLARS so that SOME OF IT GOES TO URBAN TRANSIT AND SOME TO SUBURBAN HIGHWAYS then no one is forcing anything on anyone.
But if you DON'T SHARE AND HOG ALL THE MONEY FOR SPRAWL PROJECTS you are the fucking greedy asshole "forcing" your choices on the rest of us.
no one is saying ALL the dollars should go to seattle butyou guys are saying NONE of them should.
You fucking idiotic greedy lying asshole.
56
@54: in case you forgot, you already got an urban transit stimulus bill. In November. Perhaps if so many of you city folks hadn't pooped all over RTID, the Legislature and we suburbanites (who outnumber you 4:1) would feel more generous.
57
@47: Emily, you assume that because I dislike bashing on the governor for addressing issues outside of Seattle that I must be a beneficiary of the work she is doing in Bothell. You are wrong. I don't live in Bothell, and I rarely if ever drive on that stretch of road. I also walk to work everyday and rarely drive at all. Making that choice required me to live in the suburbs despite the fact that I prefer Seattle. Many of my co-workers choose to live in Seattle and commute every day because they value the community there. More power to them. They have that right.
Even though it has little impact on me because of my personal choices, I realize that efficient transportation is vital for our community. I'd don't disparage our Governor for doing work that benefits people in her state just because one particular project doesn't benefit me.
Grow up Emily. You are a child.
Even though it has little impact on me because of my personal choices, I realize that efficient transportation is vital for our community. I'd don't disparage our Governor for doing work that benefits people in her state just because one particular project doesn't benefit me.
Grow up Emily. You are a child.
58
Seriously... unless we're farming all our food within city limits, I think we need to examine the true sustainability of this lifestyle.
Fun article here: http://nymag.com/restaurants/features/37…
Fun article here: http://nymag.com/restaurants/features/37…
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