Thursday, March 5, 2009
Homo The Chances That the California Supreme Court Will Strike Down Prop 8?
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 2:42 PM
They don't look good.
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1
Are they playing semantics? A sort of all things being equal civil union is "marriage" but we just don't want to call it that. If that is the case then let hetero-couples who don't want to marry have the same civil union "privledge" the law forces on same-sex couples.
3
I think that Therese Stewart summed it up best when she said that (not a direct quote) equal rights that are subjected to the whim of the majority are not equal rights.
I found it also interesting that Ken Starr considers all of us a "minority of 1".
I found it also interesting that Ken Starr considers all of us a "minority of 1".
5
On the one hand, I'd love to believe that the court will recognize its role as a protector of minority rights, and acknowledge that all of our rights are essentially meaningless if they can be repealed by a simple majority vote.
On the other hand, every business and governmental institution in America is bankrupt, so why would the judiciary be any different?
On the other hand, every business and governmental institution in America is bankrupt, so why would the judiciary be any different?
7
Prop 8 has convinced me that democracy is misguided, and that elections are just another tool of oppression. Plato was right.
8
Why is Maggie Gallagher such a complete bitch? She seems to get the most perverse pleasure from the oppression of gay people.
I'm thinking she needs to get laid.
I'm thinking she needs to get laid.
10
I don't know, 6 and 9, why does the smell of baby shit make you want to throw up? I don't know either, but it does. Same thing with you queers.
11
It also sounds like the court is going to uphold the 18,000 gay marriages performed before Prop. 8 passed, which includes mine. So now what do I do? Enjoy all the rights and privileges of marriage (including some pretty significant protections for me, my husband and our kids and as well as hefty financial benefits) knowing my friends and others in the gay community can't get them, too? I was always proud of my straight friends who said they wouldn't get married until gays could get married, too. Should I give up what I have until all gays get what they're entitled to? Would that help advance the cause somehow or just hurt my family? Or would it just give the haters what they want: one less gay married couple?
13
Mason @ 11,
You should stay married and enjoy those protections and benefits. Ultimately, your marriage helps you, your family and your community.
You should stay married and enjoy those protections and benefits. Ultimately, your marriage helps you, your family and your community.
16
By all means stay married 11. Hold on to what you have. You can fight the good fight too, and hold on to what you have. You need those rights.
17
@11
I'm with 13. And yes, it would just thrill pro-Prop 8 thugs to know they managed to dissolve some gay marriages even if they don't manage to do it through the courts. No reason to give the sick bastards that satisfaction. I'm not married under the law, but it gives me hope to know that you are. Don't let them take that away!
I'm with 13. And yes, it would just thrill pro-Prop 8 thugs to know they managed to dissolve some gay marriages even if they don't manage to do it through the courts. No reason to give the sick bastards that satisfaction. I'm not married under the law, but it gives me hope to know that you are. Don't let them take that away!
19
Maggie Gallagher is evidence that support for Prop 8 was just a form of sadism. She's an awful human being, and I hope her married life is miserable, and ends in an ugly divorce.
20
@ 11,
If Prop H8 is NOT overturned enjoy your rights outside of California. Take your queer ass to Massachusetts (or another place where teh geh can get hitched and are equal). Punish California by removing tax-paying-self away. If Prop H(8) is not overturned all LGBT in California should leave...preferably without paying their state taxes. California needs LGBT tax money, and therefore should give in return the same rights and freedoms straight tax-payers receive.
Say "no" to Taxation Without Representation. I'm sure the Mor(m)ons and the Catholics who funded and backed Prop H(8) will be happy to come up with the cash to cover California's budget shortfall from a Queer migration.
If Prop H8 is NOT overturned enjoy your rights outside of California. Take your queer ass to Massachusetts (or another place where teh geh can get hitched and are equal). Punish California by removing tax-paying-self away. If Prop H(8) is not overturned all LGBT in California should leave...preferably without paying their state taxes. California needs LGBT tax money, and therefore should give in return the same rights and freedoms straight tax-payers receive.
Say "no" to Taxation Without Representation. I'm sure the Mor(m)ons and the Catholics who funded and backed Prop H(8) will be happy to come up with the cash to cover California's budget shortfall from a Queer migration.
22
"I will never understand why people hate gays so much."
I suspect it's because they really hate women so much, and perceive "gayness" as having the inferior status of a "women" possibly possibly assigned to them.
I suspect it's because they really hate women so much, and perceive "gayness" as having the inferior status of a "women" possibly possibly assigned to them.
23
If you're in Washington, and believe in Equality, you might consider helping ERW by giving them your tarnished two cents worth of opinion about our fight for Civil Rights. It won't do anyone any good to sit and bitch AFTER the fact (Lose) if it's bad. Now is the time to get involved outside of sitting and typing. I know many many many of you have lots of free time to get involved and get active.
Don't bitch and moan after ward, That's So Gay!
Don't bitch and moan after ward, That's So Gay!
25
Sullivan's a fool, who wants nothing more than to be loved by the gays, catholics, and conservatives, all at the same time.
He was wrong about it the first time. And the legal commentary after oral argument on the marriage cases was almost universally saying that it was unlikely they would strike down Prop 22.
I have hope. I put Moreno and Werdegar definitely in the overturn camp, Kennard def in the uphold, with Baxter and Chin closer to Kennard and Corrigan and George closer to Moreno and Werdegar.
He was wrong about it the first time. And the legal commentary after oral argument on the marriage cases was almost universally saying that it was unlikely they would strike down Prop 22.
I have hope. I put Moreno and Werdegar definitely in the overturn camp, Kennard def in the uphold, with Baxter and Chin closer to Kennard and Corrigan and George closer to Moreno and Werdegar.
26
@20
I used to agree with you that gays should just get the hell out of states that mistreat them (why would any homo stay in Mississippi?) And this may be a good idea when you're young and need to come out. But as I've grown older I've also taken on commitments that keep me from being able to move so easily (i.e. kids settled into their schools and lives, a widowed mother who need help keeping up her house and help not being lonely, nephews who have a crappy dad and need role models so they don't end up in gangs, that kind of thing). As nice as it might be to run off to a place where I was equal and free, sometimes we have to stay where we are and fight. My life is more than just paying taxes.
I used to agree with you that gays should just get the hell out of states that mistreat them (why would any homo stay in Mississippi?) And this may be a good idea when you're young and need to come out. But as I've grown older I've also taken on commitments that keep me from being able to move so easily (i.e. kids settled into their schools and lives, a widowed mother who need help keeping up her house and help not being lonely, nephews who have a crappy dad and need role models so they don't end up in gangs, that kind of thing). As nice as it might be to run off to a place where I was equal and free, sometimes we have to stay where we are and fight. My life is more than just paying taxes.
29
Newsflash--we have a weak (legal) case against Prop 8 now that it (barely) passed.
California easily allows the ammending of their constitution (500 times so far). It might not be fair, but it's the law.
The upside is it's just as easy to overturn Prop 8--just a simple majority via ballot measure. Let's get our shit together, learn our lessons from the lame campaign that resisted Prop 8 before (how about we reach out to "minority" communities and involve queer-friendly churches for religious outreach this time? how about we not make such lame commercials this time?) and get to work righting this wrong legally instead of begging the California Supremes for, in essence, an exception.
Should rights be up for a public vote? No. But that's the reality of the flaw written into California's constitution.
California easily allows the ammending of their constitution (500 times so far). It might not be fair, but it's the law.
The upside is it's just as easy to overturn Prop 8--just a simple majority via ballot measure. Let's get our shit together, learn our lessons from the lame campaign that resisted Prop 8 before (how about we reach out to "minority" communities and involve queer-friendly churches for religious outreach this time? how about we not make such lame commercials this time?) and get to work righting this wrong legally instead of begging the California Supremes for, in essence, an exception.
Should rights be up for a public vote? No. But that's the reality of the flaw written into California's constitution.
30
It has been very tempting to leave CA lately, especially with the yearly budget fiasco. There have been so many initiatives passed that set funding at certain levels. Now there is very little flexibility in setting the budget, so we get these stare-downs over a 1/4 cent tax increase or whether the DMV fee should be cut or raised.
I think that government by the people has been taken to an extreme in CA, and it has become its achilles heel. Prop 8 only adds to the frustration. I could probably get an issue on the ballot that said blondes couldn't marry brunettes.
We are married and I believe the courts will leave it that way. We still have to file separate federal tax returns and carry legal papers when we leave the state. We will keep fighting for rights for our fellow men and women.
I think that government by the people has been taken to an extreme in CA, and it has become its achilles heel. Prop 8 only adds to the frustration. I could probably get an issue on the ballot that said blondes couldn't marry brunettes.
We are married and I believe the courts will leave it that way. We still have to file separate federal tax returns and carry legal papers when we leave the state. We will keep fighting for rights for our fellow men and women.
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