Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, March 4, 2009
Economy What He Said
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:57 AM
There really is a growing disconnect between the world portrayed on the teevee and reality. For most people getting booted out of their homes and losing their jobs, or just being underemployed, is a far bigger deal than a crashing stock market.
1
A stock market number can be quoted in 5 seconds.
A story about real people with real losses and tragedy takes far longer than the typical 2 minute news story in order to communicate the breadth of the problem.
It's a matter of simplistic laziness and greed--they must squeeze in those commercials, ya know.
The problem is the medium.
A story about real people with real losses and tragedy takes far longer than the typical 2 minute news story in order to communicate the breadth of the problem.
It's a matter of simplistic laziness and greed--they must squeeze in those commercials, ya know.
The problem is the medium.
2
It gets more disconnected than that even.
There is a developing anger by the wealthier towards the unemployed and foreclosed as being a major contributing factor to the decline in the stock market simply by becoming unemployed, through no fault of their own.
For example, in newspaper online comments there is a lot of ferocious anger and hostility directed at ALL WaMu ex-employees as having caused what may represent a decent chunk of their portfolio that was invested in WaMu stock, to be worth virtually nothing.
Ironically, the unemployed are no longer seen as the victims of this economy but as actually contributing to its decline.
There is a developing anger by the wealthier towards the unemployed and foreclosed as being a major contributing factor to the decline in the stock market simply by becoming unemployed, through no fault of their own.
For example, in newspaper online comments there is a lot of ferocious anger and hostility directed at ALL WaMu ex-employees as having caused what may represent a decent chunk of their portfolio that was invested in WaMu stock, to be worth virtually nothing.
Ironically, the unemployed are no longer seen as the victims of this economy but as actually contributing to its decline.
3
Plus, whenever they show people losing their homes and going broke or whatnot, those STUPID FUCKERS ALWAYS HAVE CABLE TV AND DESERVE WHAT THEY GET!!!!!!!!!! Or something.
So, easier to stick with that much more abstracted stock market number.
So, easier to stick with that much more abstracted stock market number.
4
my parent's retirement is/was partially funded on cashing in their 401k's. now they're hurting. and they are typical. so the crash is a big fucking deal.
at least i can wait 20 more years & hope for a recovery of the value i've lost.
at least i can wait 20 more years & hope for a recovery of the value i've lost.
5
Most people are not unemployed or getting kicked out.
If you assume an unemployment rate of 10% now (and that's high) less than half of those became unemployed as a result of the current downturn so that 5% is one of 20 people.
People getting kicked out by and large did something to cause it to happen. Bought too much house and/or lied on the loan application and/or cut it too close when deciding how much mortgage they could afford. Sad but true. Life stinks but when you're greedy and stupid it stinks more.
The stock market, on the other hand, affects way more than half of all Americans directly thru pension savings and the rest because as companies are tanking they are, guess what, laying people off.
The Obama Crash is screwing America over.
The productive class gets it and is pissed.
Slog doesn't get it.
btw Dan, stick to perversion and the freakshow, it is embarrassing when you try to post real news...
If you assume an unemployment rate of 10% now (and that's high) less than half of those became unemployed as a result of the current downturn so that 5% is one of 20 people.
People getting kicked out by and large did something to cause it to happen. Bought too much house and/or lied on the loan application and/or cut it too close when deciding how much mortgage they could afford. Sad but true. Life stinks but when you're greedy and stupid it stinks more.
The stock market, on the other hand, affects way more than half of all Americans directly thru pension savings and the rest because as companies are tanking they are, guess what, laying people off.
The Obama Crash is screwing America over.
The productive class gets it and is pissed.
Slog doesn't get it.
btw Dan, stick to perversion and the freakshow, it is embarrassing when you try to post real news...
6
@5,
It's embarrassing that conservatives are still trying to frame this downturn as Obama's fault. But, please, keep it up. I greatly enjoy watching you fuckers flail around.
It's embarrassing that conservatives are still trying to frame this downturn as Obama's fault. But, please, keep it up. I greatly enjoy watching you fuckers flail around.
7
The Obama Crash is screwing America over.
I love that asshole conservatives that whine about "Obama as messiah" apparently really think that he has magical powers.
(Or a time machine that he could use to go back and keep the Fed from lowering interest rates to obscene levels.)
I love that asshole conservatives that whine about "Obama as messiah" apparently really think that he has magical powers.
(Or a time machine that he could use to go back and keep the Fed from lowering interest rates to obscene levels.)
8
@5 - Loan applicants don't approve their own loans. The real estate bubble lies at the feet of the banks for pursuing the subprime market, their stockholders for demanding higher and higher returns, and the federal government for allowing deregulation.
This is the latest result of the Boomer Economy - squeeze the profits out while you can, and don't worry about the consequences, because you need a Roomba.
This is the latest result of the Boomer Economy - squeeze the profits out while you can, and don't worry about the consequences, because you need a Roomba.
9
@4: Indeed. 401K, mutual funds, company stock. All nearly 50% wiped totally out. All rich man's woes? Hardly.
10
@2: You bring up a really interesting point. I suppose it's the logical conclusion of a culture that is so freakishly devoted to individualism that we deny the effect deliberate policy choices have on us. See #5 for another point on the continuum.
@8: I really want a Roomba.
@8: I really want a Roomba.
11
Even if you don't own stock (directly) you are very much affected by the falling stock market: retirement accounts, tight credit, lack of college scholarships and/or financial aid, falling home values -- and of course, lost jobs.
If you're unable to see that connection Dan you're really out of touch.
If you're unable to see that connection Dan you're really out of touch.
12
O RLY?
There really is a growing disconnect between the world portrayed on the teevee and reality.
O RLY?
14
6
7
Obama won fair and square, we congratulate him.
Stocks are down 30% since the election in November. (Down more than 50% since the Democrats took over Congress)
Obama has thus far not inspired the nation that he has a clue what to do. FDR he ain't.
For 8 years the Left blamed Bush for everything from the weather to their hemmoroids.
Karma has a way of bitting your ass.
7
Obama won fair and square, we congratulate him.
Stocks are down 30% since the election in November. (Down more than 50% since the Democrats took over Congress)
Obama has thus far not inspired the nation that he has a clue what to do. FDR he ain't.
For 8 years the Left blamed Bush for everything from the weather to their hemmoroids.
Karma has a way of bitting your ass.
15
@14 - you are an idiot, with idiot opinions written on your idiot computer while you are probably wanking at your idiot penis.
16
So TV news does not reflect reality? Wow, what a shock.
HI-SPEED NUDE SHARK ATTACK!!! FILM AT 11!!!
HI-SPEED NUDE SHARK ATTACK!!! FILM AT 11!!!
17
@14: when did FDR take over? THREE YEARS INTO THE DEPRESSION.
laying this shit at the feet of Obama after 1.5 months in office? that dog won't hunt.
laying this shit at the feet of Obama after 1.5 months in office? that dog won't hunt.
18
i've noticed a lot more online whining from the mental defectives on the right since the election. they have invaded forums they larely left alone during the bush years, like slog and reddit. sigh. i guess it's just the price we pay for winning the election. oh, and can we PLEASE PLEASE PRETTY PLEASE HAVE COMMENTER REGISTRATION HERE? it's become necessary, for the reasons stated above.
19
They're all connected. The stock market drops, people get laid off, retirement savings are destroyed > Consumer confidence drops, spending drops > the sock market falls, etc. etc. etc.
I think a more interesting question is "How do we break this cycle?" Is it better to find ways to keep people employed or to prop up failing banks? How do we deal with the fact that the prosperity of the last few years was built on lies. If this is an economic correction, can we stop it and if so should be?
What do we do?
I think a more interesting question is "How do we break this cycle?" Is it better to find ways to keep people employed or to prop up failing banks? How do we deal with the fact that the prosperity of the last few years was built on lies. If this is an economic correction, can we stop it and if so should be?
What do we do?
20
ellarosa@18-
No.
You want it, I want it, everyone who's a regular wants it. At one point it was "less than a month away," according to a now-former Stranger employee. That was a year ago. I'm convinced the Stranger staff doesn't want it because they would see a smaller number of hits, and that would threaten their viability.
Which is fine- they're not a volunteer organization, and they have to pay the bills. I just wish they would tell us to fuck off and that we're never getting registration, rather than ignoring the subject or pretending that it might someday happen.
No.
You want it, I want it, everyone who's a regular wants it. At one point it was "less than a month away," according to a now-former Stranger employee. That was a year ago. I'm convinced the Stranger staff doesn't want it because they would see a smaller number of hits, and that would threaten their viability.
Which is fine- they're not a volunteer organization, and they have to pay the bills. I just wish they would tell us to fuck off and that we're never getting registration, rather than ignoring the subject or pretending that it might someday happen.
27
Here's why we hate you, @5 & @14 & @21 & @23- because you're not trying to win any hearts and minds, you're just taking a huge shit and walking away. If you wanted to convince anyone, you'd be respectful and quote things like, oh, the Economist- which, as it happens, is pretty down on the stimulus package. So you're not here to talk to anybody, YOU'RE... JUST... TROLLING!
Pardon us for not welcoming you with open arms.
Pardon us for not welcoming you with open arms.
28
19
The core problem is that housing was priced too high.
Until housing prices drop to their actual value the economy will not get on track.
Obama's stimulus did not address the core problem and wasted a lot of borrowed money.
He is prolonging the pain and multiplying the cost of a fix.
The core problem is that housing was priced too high.
Until housing prices drop to their actual value the economy will not get on track.
Obama's stimulus did not address the core problem and wasted a lot of borrowed money.
He is prolonging the pain and multiplying the cost of a fix.
30
@23: did you just wake up from an 8 year nap? your logic seems logey.
next you'll tell me the best way to address the slide in the dow is to cut taxes on the wealthiest 1% because "no poor person ever gave me a job".
the party is over, and the right split before cleanup time. don't you have some "hard work" to do?
next you'll tell me the best way to address the slide in the dow is to cut taxes on the wealthiest 1% because "no poor person ever gave me a job".
the party is over, and the right split before cleanup time. don't you have some "hard work" to do?
32
Our current "economic system" is untenable. This collapse was inevitable, either due to environmental collapse from pollution and overuse of natural resources, or from the giant Ponzi speculation scheme called The Stock Market. All is built on shifting sand. There are too many people, not enough resources, and the expectation of a standard of living too high to be provided to all those people--who are understandably pissed off they aren't getting what they were promised (and who have been raised in a culture of instant gratification and overconsumption). We had a century of industrialization and war-based economies in "peacetime" and got used to it because our lifespans didn't stretch to the Before Time.
We can try try try to prop up the current system, or we can start to realize this cannot continue and are only forestalling the inevitable, and must transistion to a more realistic use of resources and a more tenable standard of living.
The center cannot hold.
We can try try try to prop up the current system, or we can start to realize this cannot continue and are only forestalling the inevitable, and must transistion to a more realistic use of resources and a more tenable standard of living.
The center cannot hold.
33
The problem is the Nattering Nabobs of National Socialism are the ones who show up on TV, and they all make more than $250,000 a year.
And they're scared of having to settle for the top tax rate that their god President Reagan had, which is what it is under President Obama.
To them, their own personal greed and tax deductions are all that matters.
Didn't you realize that?
And they're scared of having to settle for the top tax rate that their god President Reagan had, which is what it is under President Obama.
To them, their own personal greed and tax deductions are all that matters.
Didn't you realize that?
34
@31: it is "you're", as in "you are missing a few spots".
what is it with conservatives and poor grammar? it isn't rocket science.
what is it with conservatives and poor grammar? it isn't rocket science.
36
Which is why I like getting MY national news through the patented SLOG filter. Thank you for publishing stories from people who have been affected by the layoffs -- it reminds me to be grateful I still have my job and that I was dumb enough to never bother reinvesting my 401(k) into anything other than Bonds.
oh and @13, no, I'm right there with you. Fuck them and their self-important measuring stick.
oh and @13, no, I'm right there with you. Fuck them and their self-important measuring stick.
37
Well, I was born in Texas and spent a year there in 5th grade playing with Fire Ants and reading three grades worth of readers in the "open classrooms" of Arlington.
Spiro is more the Rush of his time.
Spiro is more the Rush of his time.
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