Slog
News & ArtsMonday, March 2, 2009
Crime "So I killed someone—that makes me a bad guy?"
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 9:00 AM
The guy who jumped out of an SUV and beat an Ecuadorian immigrant to death with a baseball bat because he thought the man was gay—the immigrant, a straight man, was walking arm-and-arm with his brother—tells the New York Daily News that he has "nothing against" gay people. He was acting in self-defense: he thought the guy had a gun so what other choice did he have but to stop his car, grab a bat, jump out, and charge at the guy—the guy with a gun—and beat him to death while screaming "faggot" at the top of his lungs?
2
"I don't have a problem with gay people as long as they don't act gay." I've heard this before, even within the gay community...ridiculous. On a semi-related note, saw "Shirts & Skins" for the first time last night which included one guy telling another, "Just because you don't have sex with men doesn't mean you aren't gay. It just means you're celibate." Indeed, all you ex-gays...
4
He gets a +2 for audacity.
Personally, I think folks like this winner should be rendered down to fertilizer, but that's just me and my liberal hatespeech.
Personally, I think folks like this winner should be rendered down to fertilizer, but that's just me and my liberal hatespeech.
7
Meh. He's just saying what he has to to try to get out of a murder conviction. He's obviously lying, I would guess he know's he's lying but doesn't want to admit it so he can try to get a not guilty verdict.
8
By the way, this is National No Cussing Week. No shit. So in honor of that, I'd like to suggest that this motherfucking pile of pig shit be hung upside down by his balls until his fucking brains leak out of his ear holes.
9
I'm at a loss for words. And not because it's National No Cussing Week either, I already screwed that up. It's just so f**king sick and sad.
10
He should've claimed he was unfamiliar with the fact that "faggot" could be an anti-gay slur. And that smashing someone with a bat could harm them.
13
@12 - life in prison? That's it?
I'm rather liberal about a lot of things, but it seems that since there's no doubt as to his guilt, (we know he did the act, we know what he said, we know how he did it…) seems to me, the punishment should fit the crime. He should be bludgeoned to death by a big bat, listening to someone calling him some choice names. And I am totally, completely serious about this. Life in prison? What’s that? This guy didn’t get into a drunken fist-fight and get carried away. He didn’t rob a convenience store.
His punishment should fit the crime. Hit him with a baseball bat.
I'm rather liberal about a lot of things, but it seems that since there's no doubt as to his guilt, (we know he did the act, we know what he said, we know how he did it…) seems to me, the punishment should fit the crime. He should be bludgeoned to death by a big bat, listening to someone calling him some choice names. And I am totally, completely serious about this. Life in prison? What’s that? This guy didn’t get into a drunken fist-fight and get carried away. He didn’t rob a convenience store.
His punishment should fit the crime. Hit him with a baseball bat.
14
This not to put blame on anyone but shouldn't the Ecuadorian brothers been more careful and avoided walking hand in hand so as not to raise suspicions and bring undesired attention onto them. I think they should have know they could be mistaken for gays and that some sensitivities would have been ticked by what they wrongly thought was an open display of gay behavior.
That's not to excuse their murder but that point needs to be looked at more.
That's not to excuse their murder but that point needs to be looked at more.
16
The NAACP said the NY Post cartoon which they thought (wrongly) showed Obama was being depicted as an ape said that it was an "incitment to assasinate". Isn't it possible for them to connect the dots between homophobic music and hate crimes against gays? Why isn't there the same demand for censorship?
17
@14 - are you ever serious? I'm familiar with your comments and I wonder if you like to be the humorous, wry, obnoxious foil to everyone’s serious and thoughtful comments. Maybe you’re playing devils advocate to keep the conversation going. If that’s the case, hahaha, how funny, how absurd, what a suggestion!! You got us, we’re laughing at something that we didn’t think we could find humor in. Good for you.
If that’s not the case, then I’m afraid I’ll have to point out that you’re a sick fuck and I wouldn’t put it past you to beat up a young teenager or kill a guy for holding someone’s hand in public.
But no one would really feel that way, I’m sure. So I’ll believe you’re just the foil. Haha, you got us!!
If that’s not the case, then I’m afraid I’ll have to point out that you’re a sick fuck and I wouldn’t put it past you to beat up a young teenager or kill a guy for holding someone’s hand in public.
But no one would really feel that way, I’m sure. So I’ll believe you’re just the foil. Haha, you got us!!
18
walking arm-and-arm is cultural. It was a common site in the different countries I visited and studied in. Since, it isn't sexual in other cultures it wouldn't naturally be something to consider being sensitive about, especially between two brothers leaving mass.
20
Allyn @ 17,
I could be wrong, but I think he/she is serious. I believe I pissed him/her off last Friday on "House Proud", and I have no idea if my response was read. I think he/she does care about the topic. But, I've been wrong before.
I could be wrong, but I think he/she is serious. I believe I pissed him/her off last Friday on "House Proud", and I have no idea if my response was read. I think he/she does care about the topic. But, I've been wrong before.
21
@14 When I was in school, we all had to take a class about date rape. We had to watch these stupid videos and discuss. One segment showed a woman dressed trampy, going to a party by herself, getting obscenely drunk and staying outside after the party had gone in. She got raped. Discuss. After everyone was agreed that all men are evil rapists, I dared to suggest that the woman could have made some smarter decisions (like bringing a friend or going inside with everyone else). I was roundly scolded for suggesting it was her fault, which I hadn’t. I was trying to point out that perhaps she could have reduced her risks a little.
So, I can kinda see what you’re saying about the two men not holding hands and I would support your sentiment, except for the fact that these men were not in Basra, Utah, or Iran. They were in New York. So your suggestion that these men should have expected such outrage over their platonic PDA is bogus, wrong, and does indeed blame the victim. Shame on you.
So, I can kinda see what you’re saying about the two men not holding hands and I would support your sentiment, except for the fact that these men were not in Basra, Utah, or Iran. They were in New York. So your suggestion that these men should have expected such outrage over their platonic PDA is bogus, wrong, and does indeed blame the victim. Shame on you.
22
Kim @20 I know you're right. This guy is serious and sometimes disturbingly so. We could treat him like the mormons and just laugh until he goes away...
23
@15,17: Why do you consider me a "troll" or "humorous" or "sick"?
Is it because my views are different than yours? If so putting aside your condescending remarks let me remind you that yours are on the minority and mine are more in tune with the rest of the country. I still wouldn't consider your views as trollish or sick but maybe that's just a reflexion of the different way we view the world.
As for this subject if you read my comment I don't think we are in any disagreement, this was a murder of an innocent man and I repeat their is no excuse for someone who takes away another person's life. I was simply pointing to the dangers that public displays of what might be construed as gay behavior between men can bring to innocent persons as was the case with this Ecuadorian man. I think that perhaps this was just a case of lack of cultural differences on the part of the victim that sadly ended up costing him his life. All I was trying to comment on was on how careful people need to be when they are not fully aware of certain cultural differences.
Is it because my views are different than yours? If so putting aside your condescending remarks let me remind you that yours are on the minority and mine are more in tune with the rest of the country. I still wouldn't consider your views as trollish or sick but maybe that's just a reflexion of the different way we view the world.
As for this subject if you read my comment I don't think we are in any disagreement, this was a murder of an innocent man and I repeat their is no excuse for someone who takes away another person's life. I was simply pointing to the dangers that public displays of what might be construed as gay behavior between men can bring to innocent persons as was the case with this Ecuadorian man. I think that perhaps this was just a case of lack of cultural differences on the part of the victim that sadly ended up costing him his life. All I was trying to comment on was on how careful people need to be when they are not fully aware of certain cultural differences.
24
@23 - in our culture, it is illegal to beat someone to death. or to beat someone at all. or to beat someone because of sexual orientation.
So, I suppose your comments are found to be outlandish because you seem to be saying that walking arm-in-arm is a homosexual action and one should expect to be beaten for it. But our culture says otherwise. Anyone can walk arm-in-arm and expect to NOT be beaten. This is not about cultural differences.
So, I suppose your comments are found to be outlandish because you seem to be saying that walking arm-in-arm is a homosexual action and one should expect to be beaten for it. But our culture says otherwise. Anyone can walk arm-in-arm and expect to NOT be beaten. This is not about cultural differences.
25
What if it was just cultural differences, but what if it was a health issue? Does it really matter? Physical affection and contact between same-sex individuals should not automatically be viewed as sexual contact.
What if it was just cultural differences, but what if it was a health issue? Does it really matter? Physical affection and contact between same-sex individuals should not automatically be viewed as sexual contact.
28
@ 21: I just read this, I get what your saying. One thing that I think you should know though is that the area were the victim sadly lost his life is populated by people whose cultural sensibilities are different from that of places like in Manhattan and such. And people need to take this into mind when going to those areas so as not to gratuitously offend the people who live there. This was not the case with this Ecuadorian man though since his was a case of mistaken behavior but care needs to be taken in order to live harmoniously. I repeat no excuse for murdering someone. It goes both ways.
30
@29: Why is he a bigot? By putting "Christian" in quotation marks, Vince indicated that the man is not truly a Christian at all, but likely claims to be one. So Vince is bigoted against people who claim to be Christian but behave in an un-Christianlike manner?
32
@28 I doubt they knew NYC very well. I wouldn't know what Compton looks like (I just know it's somewhere in California and white people probably shouldn't use their cell phones in public there).
33
Everybody knows that when you're afraid somebody has a gun, the thing to do is to bludgeon them to death with a bat.
Just like, when you are afraid of black men, it is best to offer them money to suck their cock.
Just like, when you are afraid of black men, it is best to offer them money to suck their cock.
34
Blacks hate latinos and gays. If this is news to you, then you are terribly naive. Should the dead Ecuadorian have offered to suck the black murderer's cock? Oh wait, he can't. What's funny is most of you naive Seattleites probably think the murderer is white.
He's not. Celebrate divershitty!
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime…
http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/200…
He's not. Celebrate divershitty!
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime…
http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/200…
35
So when Bush walked hand in had with that Saudi prince he should have been beaten to death with a baseball bat. Give me a fucking break you ignorant piece of shit.
36
It offends me when people swear, cut in front of me in line, or shout at their children in public. I consider it inconsiderate, immoral, and all the other ins I can think of. Let's throw them in jail, haul them in front of the church...or smack them with a bat. Come on, Loveschild, I don't have the responsibility to not offend you so I don't get beat to death, nor do I have the right to smack you with a baseball bat if you offend me.
38
This thread seems to have gone stale, but I couldn't let this one pass.
@28: You are a fool whose bigotry (however mildly phrased) is only exceeded by your ignorance.
The Sucuzhañay brothers were attacked walking through their own (Brooklyn) neighborhood by men from miles away (the Bronx) who happened to be driving through. Prosecutors haven't ruled out the possibility that they were there trolling for victims. The brothers did not "gratuitously offend the people who live there," they were "the people who live there."
As for your larger point about "the area were the victim sadly lost his life" being "populated by people whose cultural sensibilities are different from that of places like in Manhattan and such" and the care people should take when going to such places, I wonder: what are the rules of engagement? There are so many different groups that may take offense at so many different things. Perhaps for everyone's safety we need to map the who, what, and where of 'unacceptable behaviors' that could invite violence.
No gays here. Or here.
No immodest women here.
No blacks here. Or here.
No Jews here. Or here.
No (not actually) Ay-rabs here. Or here.
The justifications for bias attacks only exist in the head of the attacker. As the links above should demonstrate, the degree to which their assumptions about who they're attacking square with reality is merely coincidental. There is no rational way to assign a portion of the responsibility for the attack to the Sucuzhañay brothers. It's absurd to even try, but this is precisely what you're doing with your 'they shouldn't have riled the natives' argument.
More...
@28: You are a fool whose bigotry (however mildly phrased) is only exceeded by your ignorance.
The Sucuzhañay brothers were attacked walking through their own (Brooklyn) neighborhood by men from miles away (the Bronx) who happened to be driving through. Prosecutors haven't ruled out the possibility that they were there trolling for victims. The brothers did not "gratuitously offend the people who live there," they were "the people who live there."
As for your larger point about "the area were the victim sadly lost his life" being "populated by people whose cultural sensibilities are different from that of places like in Manhattan and such" and the care people should take when going to such places, I wonder: what are the rules of engagement? There are so many different groups that may take offense at so many different things. Perhaps for everyone's safety we need to map the who, what, and where of 'unacceptable behaviors' that could invite violence.
No gays here. Or here.
No immodest women here.
No blacks here. Or here.
No Jews here. Or here.
No (not actually) Ay-rabs here. Or here.
The justifications for bias attacks only exist in the head of the attacker. As the links above should demonstrate, the degree to which their assumptions about who they're attacking square with reality is merely coincidental. There is no rational way to assign a portion of the responsibility for the attack to the Sucuzhañay brothers. It's absurd to even try, but this is precisely what you're doing with your 'they shouldn't have riled the natives' argument.
39
A) Fuck Loveschild. It's pretty clear he's just a stupid troll, so just skip over the posts. They don't typically enflame me as much, but that guy's a dipshit.
B) Has no one mentioned how fucked up that video is? I watched it at first and assumed it was a random video before the crime (partly because it's poorly labeled).
But after reading the full article, I realized the video of that motherfucker laughing occurred immediately after he killed someone with a baseball bat.
Put him in jail for life and charge his passengers with something as well.
C) Fuck Loveschild.
B) Has no one mentioned how fucked up that video is? I watched it at first and assumed it was a random video before the crime (partly because it's poorly labeled).
But after reading the full article, I realized the video of that motherfucker laughing occurred immediately after he killed someone with a baseball bat.
Put him in jail for life and charge his passengers with something as well.
C) Fuck Loveschild.
41
"I feel like they're closing the casket on me ... because of something I had no control over..."
Hmm, was this one of Dan's "How'd that happen?" moments?
Hmm, was this one of Dan's "How'd that happen?" moments?
42
These immigrants should have never been insulted, assaulted or murdered because they were walking arm in arm with each other. Before my grandfather died of natural causes on March 10, 2003, he was blind and he had to be guided by my dad, my brother, my male cousins and even my former brother-in-law. Did anyone have the right to attack my relatives for doing this? NOT AT ALL! Unfortunately, Willie Houston was murdered for guiding a blind male friend and holding his female fiance's purse in Nashville, TN on July 29, 2001. Lewis Maynard Davidson III is in prison for committing this horrible crime and I have never understood why he wanted to murder anyone because they were being kind to their friends. This crime still baffles me and it will always do this for as long as I'm alive.
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