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News & ArtsFriday, February 27, 2009
City City to Spend $14,000 to Send Two Retiring Council Members to Dubai
Posted by Erica C. Barnett on Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 2:34 PM
This post has been updated.
City council members Jan Drago and Richard McIver—both of whom are assumed to be retiring this year (McIver has confirmed; Drago is making her announcement soon)—are headed for Dubai and Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates, as part of an 85-person trade mission that starts next Wednesday. McIver's flight, hotel, and other expenses will cost the city $7,595; Drago's will cost somewhat less, $6,286, because she found a ticket herself and will share a room. Both of the council members' trips were planned last year and paid for out of the council members' office budgets for 2008.
Drago's office says such missions are worthwhile because they enable participants to build relationships with officials in other cities and can create financial benefits for Northwest companies. For example, her office says, the most recent trip Drago took—to Chongqing, China—resulted in a $30 million contract for the Robbins Co., a Kent-based firm that builds construction machines. Boeing does business with two huge UAE-based airlines, Emirates Airlines and Etihad Airways. Other Northwest companies, such as Microsoft, Starbucks, and NBBJ Architects, do big business in Dubai.
Spending thousands of dollars to send two council members to one of the most expensive cities in the world during a severe recession may be a judgment call. However, choosing two council members who won't be around to implement any policy ideas they may learn about in Dubai, or to actually capitalize on any relationships they may form there, is a highly questionable use of public dollars. (Not to mention: What exactly is the purpose of a trade mission to a country whose economy is in freefall, with workers fleeing to their home countries to avoid being thrown into debtors' prisons?)
At a time when council president Richard Conlin is freezing the council's travel budget for the rest of the year, and perhaps permanently, the image of council members jet-setting off to Dubai just months before they retire is a bit unseemly.
4
They are learning how to implement debtors' prisons, and when they come back they will be hired by the debtors' prison agency. Are you scared yet, Erica?
5
please note: the COLUMBUS OHIO office of NBBJ does business in Dubai. the home office in Seattle is not enthused.
fuck Dubai & the UAE.
fuck Dubai & the UAE.
6
We could liteerally restock the food banks with the money the council has wasted on perks for itself.
I find it telling that council members spend more days oversesas than in any particular Seattle neighborhood.
Lastly, if they are going to promote deals I expect them to come back with news that made the trip worthwhile. I want a verifiable number of how many jobs this creates.
I find it telling that council members spend more days oversesas than in any particular Seattle neighborhood.
Lastly, if they are going to promote deals I expect them to come back with news that made the trip worthwhile. I want a verifiable number of how many jobs this creates.
8
They could crash at my friend Jean's place for a lot less and learn a lot more.
She has satin sheets and I'm sure she could put them up and place hostess ...
She has satin sheets and I'm sure she could put them up and place hostess ...
9
it's not just about the relationships they forge, but the impressions they make. hold on a minute. Drago? McIver? Shit, someone call Expedia to cancel those flights.
10
are you people forgetting we are still at war? the enemy thanks you for your criticism of our leaders
12
I've got no problem with this. $14K isn't much money and has the potential to reap a lot more than that. Having a working relationship with a rich-ass country never hurts.
13
@12 - these two overpaid council members will soon not be working for Seattle so it's a useless trip. It's not a defensible use of City funds. It's a wasteful perk.
And I tend to agree that $14k ain't much in the greater budget, but it's spending like this that sets a tone for useless spending creep and it violates the public trust. In other words, don't buy the argument that we should worry about bigger budget issues - these little things add up to an attitude that we shouldn't tolerate.
Cancel the trip, guys. It's bullshit.
And I tend to agree that $14k ain't much in the greater budget, but it's spending like this that sets a tone for useless spending creep and it violates the public trust. In other words, don't buy the argument that we should worry about bigger budget issues - these little things add up to an attitude that we shouldn't tolerate.
Cancel the trip, guys. It's bullshit.
14
I've always puzzled, and a bit pissed (jealous?) of the travel perks of local electeds. Even during times of prosperity, most of these "hey, France has a cool new bridge, WE want a cool new bridge - let's go look at theirs for a while!" trips seem superfluous, at best.
15
Snohomish County Council is trying to send two of their council members to the same place, with the same lame excuse.
Personally, I think France has lots of cool new bridges - and transit system ....
Personally, I think France has lots of cool new bridges - and transit system ....
16
Since Erica didn't include it:
The trip is coordinated by the Trade Development Alliance. They organize, on average, one Business/Trade Mission and one International Study Mission per year.
http://seattletradealliance.com/blog/?p=…
Being the largest city in the most trade-dependent state in the U.S., it's not a stretch that city council members take part in a trade mission to represent the city. It's not a matter of whether or not they will be here next year; they are representing the city and region, not themselves.
These missions aren't thrown together at the last minute. They take a year and more of planning to coordinate and recruit participants. It's entirely possible that funds were committed to this long ago.
ECB, did you try to talk to Drago or Conlin's people about this to get an explanation?
The trip is coordinated by the Trade Development Alliance. They organize, on average, one Business/Trade Mission and one International Study Mission per year.
http://seattletradealliance.com/blog/?p=…
Being the largest city in the most trade-dependent state in the U.S., it's not a stretch that city council members take part in a trade mission to represent the city. It's not a matter of whether or not they will be here next year; they are representing the city and region, not themselves.
These missions aren't thrown together at the last minute. They take a year and more of planning to coordinate and recruit participants. It's entirely possible that funds were committed to this long ago.
ECB, did you try to talk to Drago or Conlin's people about this to get an explanation?
17
@16 - the Seattle Times didn't either.
It's the image - and are you surprised that at a time when tens of thousands of local people are out of jobs this might not go over well?
Really?
Are you sure?
Think again.
It's the image - and are you surprised that at a time when tens of thousands of local people are out of jobs this might not go over well?
Really?
Are you sure?
Think again.
18
@13, How long they'll be working for the city doesn't matter. Part of having a working relationship is sending people who are in charge, regardless of their tenure. This is because it's about establishing a relationship between cities not between specific people.
19
Both of them personally could afford the $8k and pay for it themselves. Gee, wouldn't that be nice of them, instead of using tax payer's money? What happened to selflessness and the greater good?
20
#19 you are loon-loon.
Neither is rich. Yes, city business... not whore houses and dope, and aside from nice buildings, Dubai is scum.
#19 you are loon-loon.
Neither is rich. Yes, city business... not whore houses and dope, and aside from nice buildings, Dubai is scum.
21
This little junket at a time when city employees have been told there will be NO TRAVEL whatsoever - even to Portland. Even when that travel would be paid for by federal grants, and would actually accomplish something.
22
@21, what we don't know from Erica's post is *when* these trips were approved and when the funds were allocated - or when the tickets were actually paid for.
ECB did a *BIG* populist "journalism" no-no. She took a few facts, made some dubious conclusions (without questioning the public figures involved), and then ended her post with a moralistic "I told you so". Which basically makes her Fox News.
The fact is, ECB did not:
-Interview the City Council members or her staff to find out more information (if she did,, that is not evident in her post).
-Inquire or share information about when the tickets for this trip were purchased, and if it was possible to cancel the trip.
-Provide *any* information in her post about who was organizing the trip, or why. In fact, she made it sound like a luxury tour of Dubai, when in fact that is not the aim of the tour at all.
-Give any background information about the City Council members in question having taken part in such trips in the past (Drago has, on several occasions).
-Objectively look at reasons for the trip to take place, beyond the (probably temporary) financial crisis.
-Interview and share with the reading public the thoughts of any of the people organizing or taking part in the study tour (like the City Council members, TDA, or other study tour participants).
ECB *did*, however, pull together several facts and draw a conclusion without further investigation and then issue a moralistic decision, which, to my mind, makes her a (drumroll, please) (c'mon, Dom and Dan...)
STUPID FUCKING CREDULOUS HACK.
Good work, Erica.
ECB did a *BIG* populist "journalism" no-no. She took a few facts, made some dubious conclusions (without questioning the public figures involved), and then ended her post with a moralistic "I told you so". Which basically makes her Fox News.
The fact is, ECB did not:
-Interview the City Council members or her staff to find out more information (if she did,, that is not evident in her post).
-Inquire or share information about when the tickets for this trip were purchased, and if it was possible to cancel the trip.
-Provide *any* information in her post about who was organizing the trip, or why. In fact, she made it sound like a luxury tour of Dubai, when in fact that is not the aim of the tour at all.
-Give any background information about the City Council members in question having taken part in such trips in the past (Drago has, on several occasions).
-Objectively look at reasons for the trip to take place, beyond the (probably temporary) financial crisis.
-Interview and share with the reading public the thoughts of any of the people organizing or taking part in the study tour (like the City Council members, TDA, or other study tour participants).
ECB *did*, however, pull together several facts and draw a conclusion without further investigation and then issue a moralistic decision, which, to my mind, makes her a (drumroll, please) (c'mon, Dom and Dan...)
STUPID FUCKING CREDULOUS HACK.
Good work, Erica.
23
So whose staff are you on there, Darrin? Are they taking their LA's along too?
In case you hadn't noticed, there's a worldwide economic crisis going on. If our two lame duck incumbent Councilmembers had decided to cancel, I'm sure Dubai would understand.
In case you hadn't noticed, there's a worldwide economic crisis going on. If our two lame duck incumbent Councilmembers had decided to cancel, I'm sure Dubai would understand.
24
Without commenting on the merits, it should be noted that it was not a Council decision to send these Councilmembers. The Council normally does send one or two Councilmembers on the annual Chamber international trip, but is not doing so this year. The two paid for the trips out of their 2008 individual office budgets, not the Council's general travel budget. Councilmembers control their own office budgets, and the Council as a whole does not make decisions about them. You could also note that canceling the trips at this point might feel good symbolically, but most of the air fares and other expenses have already been paid, and not much would be refunded. So, that would mean spending a large chunk of that money on a trip -- without actually going on the trip.
25
@23, I'm not associated with the City Council or council members. In my previous career in international development I had some contact with TDA (none of it financial), and they are an extremely reputable organization. I know first-hand what it takes to organize and have people commit to a business/educational delegation, having organized them for an international nonprofit for almost a decade.
My issue is not even really sticking up for TDA or the council, but ECB's shrill tone and dubious reporting. She could have chosen to dig deeper, get some facts, talk to the various sides, and then draw a conclusion. But she didn't. Instead, she took a few facts, made her conclusion ("unseemly"), and posted it to cause a ruckus. It's tacky and hacky, and exactly the type of thing that she makes a federal case of when other local reporters do the same thing.
My issue is not even really sticking up for TDA or the council, but ECB's shrill tone and dubious reporting. She could have chosen to dig deeper, get some facts, talk to the various sides, and then draw a conclusion. But she didn't. Instead, she took a few facts, made her conclusion ("unseemly"), and posted it to cause a ruckus. It's tacky and hacky, and exactly the type of thing that she makes a federal case of when other local reporters do the same thing.
26
Hey First Darrin:
shut the fuck up. She has plenty of facts. Two members who aren't going to be around (that is WE CAN'T VOTE AGAINST THEM FOR THIS BOONDOGGLE YOU DIMWIT) are going to WASTE OUR MONEY for dubious purposes.
And all your sniffing and prudishly harrumphing about "tacky and hacky" is just so much ass licking of those in power who are wasting our money.
No on to the other credulous dimwit"
"Councilmembers control their own office budgets,"
SO YOU THE PUBLIC MAY NOT QUESTION THEM AND MUST BOW DOWN AND TAKE IT.
" and the Council as a whole does not make decisions about them." SO SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU PIASSANT PEASANTS QUESTIONING YOUR BETTERS.
"You could also note" ooooh the ever dreading pussyish "smart man talking down tone, we're soooo hurt "that canceling the trips at this point might feel good symbolically," YOU ARE CHILDREN YOU ARE GUIDED BY YOUR FEELINGS WHILE I AND THE POWER ELITE ARE SMART AND RATIONAL " but most of the air fares and other expenses have already been paid," IN OTHER WORDS WE'RE GETTING AWAY WITH IT SO FUCK YOU "and not much would be refunded." SO TO THE PUBLIC WE SAY HA HA HA HA HA FUCK YOU.
"So, that would mean spending a large chunk of that money on a trip -- without actually going on the trip." AHA PUBLIC YOU SEE HOW DUMB YOU ARE SHUT UP AND GO AWAY WE'RE PISSING AWAY YOUR DOLLARS AND HOW DARE YOU QUESTION IT.
This is not too different than the $30,000 for a bike rack that should cost $345 or millions for toilets. They're just not on the job. And it's very clear council members who are going to run again no way would do this cuz voters would be pissed. so they're fucking cowards, to boot.
And as to office budgets you toady -- that's OUR money too. It's not THEIRS. and get this: IT'S FOR THEIR OFFICE WHICH DOESN'T INCLUDE FLYING TO DUBAI.
More...
shut the fuck up. She has plenty of facts. Two members who aren't going to be around (that is WE CAN'T VOTE AGAINST THEM FOR THIS BOONDOGGLE YOU DIMWIT) are going to WASTE OUR MONEY for dubious purposes.
And all your sniffing and prudishly harrumphing about "tacky and hacky" is just so much ass licking of those in power who are wasting our money.
No on to the other credulous dimwit"
"Councilmembers control their own office budgets,"
SO YOU THE PUBLIC MAY NOT QUESTION THEM AND MUST BOW DOWN AND TAKE IT.
" and the Council as a whole does not make decisions about them." SO SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU PIASSANT PEASANTS QUESTIONING YOUR BETTERS.
"You could also note" ooooh the ever dreading pussyish "smart man talking down tone, we're soooo hurt "that canceling the trips at this point might feel good symbolically," YOU ARE CHILDREN YOU ARE GUIDED BY YOUR FEELINGS WHILE I AND THE POWER ELITE ARE SMART AND RATIONAL " but most of the air fares and other expenses have already been paid," IN OTHER WORDS WE'RE GETTING AWAY WITH IT SO FUCK YOU "and not much would be refunded." SO TO THE PUBLIC WE SAY HA HA HA HA HA FUCK YOU.
"So, that would mean spending a large chunk of that money on a trip -- without actually going on the trip." AHA PUBLIC YOU SEE HOW DUMB YOU ARE SHUT UP AND GO AWAY WE'RE PISSING AWAY YOUR DOLLARS AND HOW DARE YOU QUESTION IT.
This is not too different than the $30,000 for a bike rack that should cost $345 or millions for toilets. They're just not on the job. And it's very clear council members who are going to run again no way would do this cuz voters would be pissed. so they're fucking cowards, to boot.
And as to office budgets you toady -- that's OUR money too. It's not THEIRS. and get this: IT'S FOR THEIR OFFICE WHICH DOESN'T INCLUDE FLYING TO DUBAI.
27
@22 and 25 for the win; @26 for being loudest.
Without more reporting, it's hard to know what to make of this. The fact that it's coming out of their office budgets is interesting and would have been useful to put ECB's post in context. How much is a council person's office budget? 200K? And the total city discretionary budget - 600M? Total budget - 1bn?
We are a trade dependent city so this was an appropriate use of funds when the decision was made to go on this trip; whether it's the best use of funds now, given our economic meltdown, is doubtful.
Without more reporting, it's hard to know what to make of this. The fact that it's coming out of their office budgets is interesting and would have been useful to put ECB's post in context. How much is a council person's office budget? 200K? And the total city discretionary budget - 600M? Total budget - 1bn?
We are a trade dependent city so this was an appropriate use of funds when the decision was made to go on this trip; whether it's the best use of funds now, given our economic meltdown, is doubtful.
28
@26, why don't you run for city council and make everything all better?
Oh, that's right. It's because you're a nutjob.
Oh, that's right. It's because you're a nutjob.
29
I re-read Erica's post very carefully for tone, and I just don't see any part of it that could be construed to be "shrill". To the contrary, I find her use of the word "unseemly" to be a polite description of this idiotic and incredibly ill-timed wastefulness.
In fact, "shrill" is a loaded word, and when it is used to describe a woman's writing or voice, often it is an attempt to silence her, or to invalidate her points by derision rather than by logic.
I would also like to read a more in-depth article about this story, but given that this was a blog posting of facts at hand, I think that it does the job of alerting the public to possible tax-dollar wastery. The details brought out in the discussion don't really make it seem any more seemly to me-- it doesn't really matter if the money comes from "their" office budgets, it's still our money.
The role that The Stranger has long played journalistically for Seattle in bringing issues like this to light is the role that the dailies should have been playing all along.
In fact, "shrill" is a loaded word, and when it is used to describe a woman's writing or voice, often it is an attempt to silence her, or to invalidate her points by derision rather than by logic.
I would also like to read a more in-depth article about this story, but given that this was a blog posting of facts at hand, I think that it does the job of alerting the public to possible tax-dollar wastery. The details brought out in the discussion don't really make it seem any more seemly to me-- it doesn't really matter if the money comes from "their" office budgets, it's still our money.
The role that The Stranger has long played journalistically for Seattle in bringing issues like this to light is the role that the dailies should have been playing all along.
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