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News & ArtsSaturday, February 21, 2009
Homo The Gay Lifestyle
Posted by Dan Savage on Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 7:00 PM
This is how it's done: sit on the couch with your snowboarder ten-year-old and his eleven-year-old skater friend, share a leftover bottle of NYE champagne with your boyfriend, the four of you watch All About Eve on TMC, then you and your boyfriend spend the rest of the night saying, "You're too short for that gesture," to your son and his friend.
Repeat as necessary.
1
Hey, first to comment! yay. I just wanted to say that you always manage to make me smile, Dan, whether it's with your column or just talking about your life. Thanks.
8
Mr. Vel-DuRay and I have gotten to the point in our relationship where he often plays Birdie to my Margo.
And that's an improvement.....
And that's an improvement.....
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I don't own this movie; I should own this movie. I heart Bette.
Our gay lifestyle this evening: frying chicken, making slaw, and baking biscuits for a gathering of friends. I also baked an apple pie. I rendered the lard for the crust yesterday. Made pimento cheese and candied bacon with cashews to have with the martinis beforehand.
The gays ruin everything.
Our gay lifestyle this evening: frying chicken, making slaw, and baking biscuits for a gathering of friends. I also baked an apple pie. I rendered the lard for the crust yesterday. Made pimento cheese and candied bacon with cashews to have with the martinis beforehand.
The gays ruin everything.
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The Straight Lifestyle:
Sit down on a couch by yourself drinking a full bottle of Villa Antinori toscano red, hoping that some day your son will not hate you, and watch The Asphalt Jungle and notice that Marilyn Monroe, back in the early 50s, was stunningly attractive...more so than the blowsy, billowy campy blonde that Elton John cannonized, and think, why does everything have to get messed up...
The Straight Lifestyle:
Sit down on a couch by yourself drinking a full bottle of Villa Antinori toscano red, hoping that some day your son will not hate you, and watch The Asphalt Jungle and notice that Marilyn Monroe, back in the early 50s, was stunningly attractive...more so than the blowsy, billowy campy blonde that Elton John cannonized, and think, why does everything have to get messed up...
14
Hee.
Makes me think of my childhood.
If you can't harrass the kids with the delicious commentary of Addison DeWitt, then what is the point of having children?
Makes me think of my childhood.
If you can't harrass the kids with the delicious commentary of Addison DeWitt, then what is the point of having children?
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I'm upset that Balt-O-Matt is less than an hour from me, we both troll SLOG, and still haven't met up for gay cooking night....
16
Gay Agenda here tonight: A Christmas themed birthday party, a lengthy discussion of the economy, and then a communal viewing of a DVRed reality show about child beauty pageants...
17
Look at the gays working to destroy society again!
I'm with 3, I love the shots into your family life! And your post totally made me smile
I'm with 3, I love the shots into your family life! And your post totally made me smile
20
Have you heard of a babysitter. Or when I was his age I did not need anyone to watch me. Not sure if that is OK nowadays. Watching TMC is a Tuesday night activity not Saturday night. There was way to much going on at the gay bars tonight to be wasting it in front of the TV. I feel sorry for you.
25
Dan I just wrote a bunch of points to my mormon friend who posted one of those facebook notes on what he would do if he were president, and one of them was that he would "keep gay adopting banned" (single/unmarried adoption is legal in all but 4 states, so I don't know where he's getting that?)
but i should've just sent him this.
but i should've just sent him this.
27
Oh c'mon Dan, there's no way those kids enjoyed that movie! To a ten year old, watching an old B&W movie is akin to going to the dentist...
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Unless, of course, Dan and Terry were trying to teach the kids about how we SHOULDN'T treat one another. Can't think of a much better movie to teach that lesson than "Eve"...
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That sounds so darling. =)
Straight agenda last night: Getting drunk at a no pants party, playing no pants twister, and looking at the cake fart video.
You gays with your rough and tumble love of black and white movies! Why don't you settle down already like us breeders? ;p
Straight agenda last night: Getting drunk at a no pants party, playing no pants twister, and looking at the cake fart video.
You gays with your rough and tumble love of black and white movies! Why don't you settle down already like us breeders? ;p
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I want to come over to Balt-o-Matt's house.
It sounds comfortingly like my Grandma's (also in Maryland). :)
It sounds comfortingly like my Grandma's (also in Maryland). :)
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And then teach the kids how to masturbate compulsively, drink vats upon vats of cheap wine, and have lots of homosexually homosexual sex for the rest of their miserable gay lives.
Repeat as necessary.
Repeat as necessary.
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My gay lifestyle today: husband and I finish yesterday's overly ambitious yardwork project, make special dinner for our sons and their friends, crash
My gay lifestyle today: husband and I finish yesterday's overly ambitious yardwork project, make special dinner for our sons and their friends, crash
35
That's your opinion, and in my opinion it is a sad one. Just because their isn't a woman in the room in one moment, doesn't mean there are not female role models in a child's life. Why, do you want to presume the worst?
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35: "The Gay Lifestyle", means a way of living. There are no females on the picture. I'm not presuming anything.
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@34: Why is it so important that there be a female in the picture? What does "femaleness" provide? And can it be any female? Or only a certain kind of female?
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36: You are presuming. You definition of "The Gay Lifestyle" confirms your presumption. This post is just a snap shot in the life of a family, one of many snapshots. Perhaps, you think being gay means that you only have friends and family members that share your same gender? Is is impossible to think that the extended family provides female role models?
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37: Because only females can give to kids things that only a mother can teach. When there's no mother or a child hasn't received adequate substitute mothering it can cause long term damage to the child in the areas of their ability to trust others, self-esteem, feelings of security and their ability to relate to others. Mothers are special and only they can provide these important tools.
I'm not understanding you on these questions: "And can it be any female? Or only a certain kind of female?", If by them you meant non human, then I think they're silly questions.
I'm not understanding you on these questions: "And can it be any female? Or only a certain kind of female?", If by them you meant non human, then I think they're silly questions.
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Mmm, Terry and Dan sound pretty nurturing to me. Kids need parents who provide a stable, nurturing environment and who love them and give them guidelines. D.J. is lucky, and I wish some of the other kids who are now in foster care had the opportunity to be adopted by people who love them (of any gender). And by the way, Dan is a human being, created by a loving God. Attack his politics but not his family.
42
Kids learn most from example.
The ideal family situation is a mom and dad.
Growing up in a home with functional heterosexual parents provides appropriate gender role models for how men and women should behave as spouses and parents.
It is important for children to have role models of both genders, boys need to learn from a good dad how to be a dad and husband but they also need to see a mom to learn how to treat women. The same applies for girls learning from a mom and dad, from their dad they should learn how a man should treat a woman and if they do they won't be as susceptible to hooking up with some abusive creep.
Also men and women are different (equally valuable, but different) and bring different parenting skills to the family. A prissy man still can't be a mom.
This is not to discount the heroic efforts other parents make; and the ideal is not always achievable; and often through circumstances beyond their control parents find themselves raising children in less than ideal situations.
And it certainly does not imply that any heterosexual man or woman will be adequate parents.
But as policy makers craft family law they should be aware of and foster the best possible family format for the nations children.
And Science demands that we recognize that not all family types are equal in the benefit they provide.
The ideal family situation is a mom and dad.
Growing up in a home with functional heterosexual parents provides appropriate gender role models for how men and women should behave as spouses and parents.
It is important for children to have role models of both genders, boys need to learn from a good dad how to be a dad and husband but they also need to see a mom to learn how to treat women. The same applies for girls learning from a mom and dad, from their dad they should learn how a man should treat a woman and if they do they won't be as susceptible to hooking up with some abusive creep.
Also men and women are different (equally valuable, but different) and bring different parenting skills to the family. A prissy man still can't be a mom.
This is not to discount the heroic efforts other parents make; and the ideal is not always achievable; and often through circumstances beyond their control parents find themselves raising children in less than ideal situations.
And it certainly does not imply that any heterosexual man or woman will be adequate parents.
But as policy makers craft family law they should be aware of and foster the best possible family format for the nations children.
And Science demands that we recognize that not all family types are equal in the benefit they provide.
43
Loveschild = families are awesome.
You are the kind of people that produce killers like McKinney and Henderson who murdered Matthew Shepard.
And you're both?(?) so paralyzed by fear that you take a great family moment like the one Dan has offered and piss all over it with your repellent paranoia and ignorance. I wish nothing but the worst for both(?) of you and all those who think like you.
You are the kind of people that produce killers like McKinney and Henderson who murdered Matthew Shepard.
And you're both?(?) so paralyzed by fear that you take a great family moment like the one Dan has offered and piss all over it with your repellent paranoia and ignorance. I wish nothing but the worst for both(?) of you and all those who think like you.
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@42, I guess you're right. Gay men can't possibly be close to any women because they're just so into men that they don't have diverse relationships! They must have abandoned their sisters, aunts, grandmas, mothers, female friends, and female cousins. On the day of their coming out, they're snatched away and forever isolated with their introduction into the gay community. They never see their families again!
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Can you provide the research you are quoting? You think a mom and dad are best because that is what you have always been taught--not because there is proof scientific or otherwise. And by your logic gay men with boys should be fine. They learn how to treat women from how their dads treat women and how to be a man from the dads.
I bought the "logic" you are spouting for a long time. However the majority of children do not live with a mom and dad, and most gay families I know, like most single parent families I know provide their children with access to adult role models of the opposite sex.
I've even been recruited to be the honorary aunt to kids who have a mom and a dad. Children should be surrounded by as many adults who love them as possible.
And take your argument to it's logical conclusion. Are you really saying that if a child loses a parent to death, divorce or abuse that's too bad, but we can't give a child a loving home because the parents are gay??
I bought the "logic" you are spouting for a long time. However the majority of children do not live with a mom and dad, and most gay families I know, like most single parent families I know provide their children with access to adult role models of the opposite sex.
I've even been recruited to be the honorary aunt to kids who have a mom and a dad. Children should be surrounded by as many adults who love them as possible.
And take your argument to it's logical conclusion. Are you really saying that if a child loses a parent to death, divorce or abuse that's too bad, but we can't give a child a loving home because the parents are gay??
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43
McKinney and Henderson were produced by the kind of people that expose their kids to booze and drugs.
McKinney and Henderson were produced by the kind of people that expose their kids to booze and drugs.
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Loveschild @39:
Your arguments are not not backed up by research.
But you seem to care about the welfare of children, so you should know that your unfounded beliefs, and the policies that are based on them, hurt children. If you really do care as much as you seem to, please get informed. Here is a start: a paper published by the American Psychological Association:
http://www.apa.org/monitor/dec05/kids.ht…
Here is its conclusion:
"Having a gay or lesbian parent doesn't affect a child's social adjustment, school success or sexual orientation, say researchers. "Sexual orientation has nothing to do with good parenting," notes Armand Cerbone, PhD, who reviewed research on gay and lesbian parenting as chair of APA's Working Group on Same-Sex Families and Relationships."
Your arguments are not not backed up by research.
But you seem to care about the welfare of children, so you should know that your unfounded beliefs, and the policies that are based on them, hurt children. If you really do care as much as you seem to, please get informed. Here is a start: a paper published by the American Psychological Association:
http://www.apa.org/monitor/dec05/kids.ht…
Here is its conclusion:
"Having a gay or lesbian parent doesn't affect a child's social adjustment, school success or sexual orientation, say researchers. "Sexual orientation has nothing to do with good parenting," notes Armand Cerbone, PhD, who reviewed research on gay and lesbian parenting as chair of APA's Working Group on Same-Sex Families and Relationships."
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@42: It's really too bad that your functional heterosexual Mom and Dad didn't do a better job raising you not to be so judgmental.
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@ lovechild
You are aware that Dan and Terry participated in an open adoption, right? That means that even if they didn't have any female friends or relatives (which is outlandish. Do you know anybody who doesn't have females in their life? Or a women who doesn't have any men in her life?) there would still be a woman in D.J.'s life.
You are aware that Dan and Terry participated in an open adoption, right? That means that even if they didn't have any female friends or relatives (which is outlandish. Do you know anybody who doesn't have females in their life? Or a women who doesn't have any men in her life?) there would still be a woman in D.J.'s life.
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How about this one:
Patterson, C. J. (2000). Family relationships of lesbians and gay men. Journal of Marriage and the Family, 62, 1052- 1069.
Presents an overview of research on the family lives of lesbians and gay men. It is noted that the family lives of lesbian and gay people have been a source of controversy during the past decade. Despite prejudice and discrimination, lesbians and gay men have often succeeded in creating and sustaining family relationships. Research on same-gender couple relationships, parent-child relationships, and other family relationships are reviewed here. In general, the picture of lesbian and gay relationships emerging from this body of work is one of positive adjustment, even in the face of stressful conditions. Research is also beginning to address questions about individual differences among the family relationships of lesbians and gay men. It is concluded that future work in this area has the potential to affect lesbian and gay lives, influence developmental and family theory, and inform public policies. (PsycINFO Database Record. Copyright © 2002 by the American Psychological Association. All rights reserved.)
Patterson, C. J. (2000). Family relationships of lesbians and gay men. Journal of Marriage and the Family, 62, 1052- 1069.
Presents an overview of research on the family lives of lesbians and gay men. It is noted that the family lives of lesbian and gay people have been a source of controversy during the past decade. Despite prejudice and discrimination, lesbians and gay men have often succeeded in creating and sustaining family relationships. Research on same-gender couple relationships, parent-child relationships, and other family relationships are reviewed here. In general, the picture of lesbian and gay relationships emerging from this body of work is one of positive adjustment, even in the face of stressful conditions. Research is also beginning to address questions about individual differences among the family relationships of lesbians and gay men. It is concluded that future work in this area has the potential to affect lesbian and gay lives, influence developmental and family theory, and inform public policies. (PsycINFO Database Record. Copyright © 2002 by the American Psychological Association. All rights reserved.)
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Or this one:
Patterson, C. J. (1992). Children of lesbian and gay parents. Child Development, 63, 1025 -1042.
Reviews research on the personal and social development of children of gay or lesbian parents (CGLP). Beginning with estimates of the numbers of such children, sociocultural, theoretical, and legal reasons for attention to their development are then outlined. In this context, studies on sexual identity, personal development, and social relationships among these children are reviewed. Evidence does not show that the development of CGLP is compromised significantly relative to that among children of heterosexual parents in comparable situations. (PsycINFO Database Record. Copyright © 2002 by the American Psychological Association. All rights reserved.)
Patterson, C. J. (1992). Children of lesbian and gay parents. Child Development, 63, 1025 -1042.
Reviews research on the personal and social development of children of gay or lesbian parents (CGLP). Beginning with estimates of the numbers of such children, sociocultural, theoretical, and legal reasons for attention to their development are then outlined. In this context, studies on sexual identity, personal development, and social relationships among these children are reviewed. Evidence does not show that the development of CGLP is compromised significantly relative to that among children of heterosexual parents in comparable situations. (PsycINFO Database Record. Copyright © 2002 by the American Psychological Association. All rights reserved.)
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Or this one:
Perrin, E. C., & the Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health. (2002). Technical report: Coparent or second-parent adoption by same-sex parents. Pediatrics, 109, 341-344.
A growing body of scientific literature demonstrates that children who grow up with one or two gay and/or lesbian parents fare as well in emotional, cognitive, social, and sexual functioning as do children whose parents are heterosexual. Children's optimal development seems to be influenced more by the nature of the relationships and interactions within the family unit than by the particular structural form it takes. (PsycINFO Database Record. Copyright © 2002 by the American Psychological Association. All rights reserved.)
Perrin, E. C., & the Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health. (2002). Technical report: Coparent or second-parent adoption by same-sex parents. Pediatrics, 109, 341-344.
A growing body of scientific literature demonstrates that children who grow up with one or two gay and/or lesbian parents fare as well in emotional, cognitive, social, and sexual functioning as do children whose parents are heterosexual. Children's optimal development seems to be influenced more by the nature of the relationships and interactions within the family unit than by the particular structural form it takes. (PsycINFO Database Record. Copyright © 2002 by the American Psychological Association. All rights reserved.)
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A review of 21 studies...
Stacey, Judith, and Timothy J. Biblarz. 2001. "(How) Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?" American Sociological Review 66(2): 159-183.
Pdf here: http://www.soc.iastate.edu/soc522a/PDF%2…
Stacey, Judith, and Timothy J. Biblarz. 2001. "(How) Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?" American Sociological Review 66(2): 159-183.
Pdf here: http://www.soc.iastate.edu/soc522a/PDF%2…
57
Remeber when Dan supported his President Bush's decision to go to war on Iraq? Yeah, that's right, Dan was fucking enthusiastic talking shit about kicking their ass and bending them to our will. Now there are 740,000 Iraqi widows because of Dan and Bush's war on the people of Iraq. What's that. You don't give a fuck. I hear ya. Neither does Dan. It was just snarrk. Everytrhing is fair game here at Slog.
Ya hear the one about the obese woman who accidentally killed her baby? Dan tells that story good. i laughed until I shit my pants. Gawd that was one of Dan's better stories.
Ya hear the one about the obese woman who accidentally killed her baby? Dan tells that story good. i laughed until I shit my pants. Gawd that was one of Dan's better stories.
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Thanks for all your links to different studies. It would be great if Stranger had a page for these types of links.
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@51: I would LOVE to see the "unbiased research" you've dug up to support your position. Please, share!
While you're at it, feel free to knowledgeably dispute some of the points made in the articles that have been cited here. If you're really concerned about the welfare of kids and families, one would think you'd want to be informed about the issues, right?
Or is it possible you care more about your own ideology than you do about the well-being of its victims?
While you're at it, feel free to knowledgeably dispute some of the points made in the articles that have been cited here. If you're really concerned about the welfare of kids and families, one would think you'd want to be informed about the issues, right?
Or is it possible you care more about your own ideology than you do about the well-being of its victims?
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Phony Social Science 'research' by homosexual advocates promoting acceptance of homosexuality is a booming business in the far Left ghetto of American universities. You haven't scratched the surface of the garbage studies out there. They are the scripture of the secular humanists who are forcing their religious values on society.
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Family does matter.
On the "daughter turned mom in for pot" post there are testimonials from kids of pot-head hippies about what crummy parents they were and how it affects their kids.
The kind of family a child is raised in makes a big difference in the way they develop.
If you believe that heterosexual marriage is the most important and fulfilling relationship a person can/will have then you believe giving children a strong foundation is important.
If you think anything goes then you don't mind seeing kids raised by homosexuals.
Both sides can find studies out the wazoo to back their point of view. Neither side will place any credence in the studies of the other side.
The research is tainted by point of view, on both sides.
If you want citations visit any religious right 'save the family' site.
How a person feels about homosexual parents is going to track how they feel about homosexuality as a lifestyle choice.
If you believe having 'functional' heterosexuals with healthy gender identities is important to sustaining society (and it is) then you want to see as many children as possible get a foundation that will encourage that.
On the "daughter turned mom in for pot" post there are testimonials from kids of pot-head hippies about what crummy parents they were and how it affects their kids.
The kind of family a child is raised in makes a big difference in the way they develop.
If you believe that heterosexual marriage is the most important and fulfilling relationship a person can/will have then you believe giving children a strong foundation is important.
If you think anything goes then you don't mind seeing kids raised by homosexuals.
Both sides can find studies out the wazoo to back their point of view. Neither side will place any credence in the studies of the other side.
The research is tainted by point of view, on both sides.
If you want citations visit any religious right 'save the family' site.
How a person feels about homosexual parents is going to track how they feel about homosexuality as a lifestyle choice.
If you believe having 'functional' heterosexuals with healthy gender identities is important to sustaining society (and it is) then you want to see as many children as possible get a foundation that will encourage that.
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@34 what do you mean there are no females in the room? What do you call Margo Channing?
Bill's 32. He looks 32. He looked 32 ten years ago; he'll look 32 ten years from now. I. Hate. Men.
Bill's 32. He looks 32. He looked 32 ten years ago; he'll look 32 ten years from now. I. Hate. Men.
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57, I was wondering how long it would take before some mental defect wandered in and posted a non sequiter about Savage and the war. My suggestion is that you get over it.
66
Yes, families do matter, ALL families matter. All families need to be fostered, even when they do not fit a person's personal definition of what a family looks like. Those individuals who are devoted to the idea that a family contain a heterosexual couple with children, need to stop attacking families that don't fit their description and focus on strengthening the families that fit their description. Same-sex parents, single parents, extended family parents are not a threat to the heterosexual couple with children family, divorce is the threat. Divorce (and yes there are real and valid reasons, and it serves a legitimate purpose is our society) is what tears 1 out of 2 families apart.
Here's an idea, let's all stop getting our knickers in a twist about the physical definition of family, and start supporting the actual families that exist in today's society. These families aren't abstract ideas, they are real human beings worthy of equal rights and our support. You have a family in your life, get involved, offer to watch the kids so the parent(s) can take a break. You'll get a reality check on caring for particular child(ren) in your life, and the parent(s) will get to remember why they became a parent(s) in the first place.
Here's an idea, let's all stop getting our knickers in a twist about the physical definition of family, and start supporting the actual families that exist in today's society. These families aren't abstract ideas, they are real human beings worthy of equal rights and our support. You have a family in your life, get involved, offer to watch the kids so the parent(s) can take a break. You'll get a reality check on caring for particular child(ren) in your life, and the parent(s) will get to remember why they became a parent(s) in the first place.
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@62 -"How a person feels about homosexual parents is going to track how they feel about homosexuality as a lifestyle choice."
Not necessarily. How you feel about homosexual rights to parent are actually affected by what you know to be the cause of homosexuality.
Homosexuality is a choice: these people have no right to screw up anyone else’s life just because they’re screwing up their own.
Homosexuality is an inborn trait: since God created some people this way from the womb (Psalms 139:13), perhaps He in all His wisdom knew what He was doing and perhaps we should not treat homosexuals as second-class citizens because of it. (Civil rights, anyone?)
Also, don’t you kinda love how the same Bible verse many people use as a reason against abortion is a great verse in support of the other “great evil” of homosexuality?
@66 - excellent post. Now let's all go do that.
Not necessarily. How you feel about homosexual rights to parent are actually affected by what you know to be the cause of homosexuality.
Homosexuality is a choice: these people have no right to screw up anyone else’s life just because they’re screwing up their own.
Homosexuality is an inborn trait: since God created some people this way from the womb (Psalms 139:13), perhaps He in all His wisdom knew what He was doing and perhaps we should not treat homosexuals as second-class citizens because of it. (Civil rights, anyone?)
Also, don’t you kinda love how the same Bible verse many people use as a reason against abortion is a great verse in support of the other “great evil” of homosexuality?
@66 - excellent post. Now let's all go do that.
68
Not all families are created equal. (see pot-smoking hippies above)
Society has a responsibility to its children to foster the best family type(s).
Hense the debate over homosexual marriage.
Every member of society has a stake in the institution of marriage and how it is defined.
Society has a responsibility to its children to foster the best family type(s).
Hense the debate over homosexual marriage.
Every member of society has a stake in the institution of marriage and how it is defined.
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51, 60
To call "bias" when a study does not support your views is not an argument. Produce evidence of said bias or, better yet, provide rational arguments showing the study was tainted (inadequate sample size, etc.). If scientists just muttered "nuh uh" whenever a disagreeable result came their way, we'd still be in the Stone Age.
Kim in Portland: as always, I appreciate your calm, reasonable approach.
To call "bias" when a study does not support your views is not an argument. Produce evidence of said bias or, better yet, provide rational arguments showing the study was tainted (inadequate sample size, etc.). If scientists just muttered "nuh uh" whenever a disagreeable result came their way, we'd still be in the Stone Age.
Kim in Portland: as always, I appreciate your calm, reasonable approach.
72
71
We shouldn't.
And we shouldn't change laws when a new crowd with a new interpretation comes along.
We shouldn't.
And we shouldn't change laws when a new crowd with a new interpretation comes along.
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@72 Current marriage laws work just fine for you because you get what you want, what you know you deserve. What about other men and women who want those privileges and rights?
What makes you more deserving of those benefits than them?
What makes you more deserving of those benefits than them?
76
Well personally, I think all 2 parent families are just awful. 2-parent families give room for arguments and favortism and such that you just don't get with a single parent family. See? That's just as ludicrous as homos not being good parents.
What makes a good parent is the content of his or her character, not whether or not s/he likes a person of the same gender (character trait, yes, but not one relevant to parenting). What makes a good parent is whether or not he or she is willing to do whatever is in his or her power to create the best life for the child. You put your child's needs above your own. However, you do NOT neglect yourself. That makes for an unhealthy personal welfare for the parent. Happy parent = happy child. You need to find a way to balance both. It's hard, but worth it.
What makes a good parent is the content of his or her character, not whether or not s/he likes a person of the same gender (character trait, yes, but not one relevant to parenting). What makes a good parent is whether or not he or she is willing to do whatever is in his or her power to create the best life for the child. You put your child's needs above your own. However, you do NOT neglect yourself. That makes for an unhealthy personal welfare for the parent. Happy parent = happy child. You need to find a way to balance both. It's hard, but worth it.
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@ 74
Yes, absolutely...chant a slogan and poof, it is reality! If we call discrimination "equality", suddenly it is so. That's a pretty neat trick.
Logic is for losers. Give me a top hat and a bunny. Hell, throw in a scantily clad assistant while you're at it. But please make sure she's heterosexual.
I'd sign off with an appropriate title, something like Dripping w/ Sarcasm, but I'd rather own up to my comments.
Warning: Overexposure to trolls in Slogland can cause impatience, sarcasm, and dangerous levels of eye-rolling. If you experience these symptoms, please get back to work immediately (I'm taking my own advice).
Yes, absolutely...chant a slogan and poof, it is reality! If we call discrimination "equality", suddenly it is so. That's a pretty neat trick.
Logic is for losers. Give me a top hat and a bunny. Hell, throw in a scantily clad assistant while you're at it. But please make sure she's heterosexual.
I'd sign off with an appropriate title, something like Dripping w/ Sarcasm, but I'd rather own up to my comments.
Warning: Overexposure to trolls in Slogland can cause impatience, sarcasm, and dangerous levels of eye-rolling. If you experience these symptoms, please get back to work immediately (I'm taking my own advice).
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77
Come on, TK- don't pout and skulk away...
Slog just won't be the same without you!
How do the current laws not treat everyone equally?
Any man can marry a woman. No one will ask if you are gay or bi or hetero because it doesn't matter, we are all treated the same.
"But Wait!" you wail...
"Homosexuals can't marry the person they LOVE!!!"
(whaaaa)
As Tina said;
What's Love got to do with it?
No one at the courthouse will ask you about 'Love' when you get a license. No one cares if you love your spouse or grow to love them or are sick of them after three months. The government doesn't guarantee hetero's they can marry who they love.
Grow up.
And stop pouting.
Come on, TK- don't pout and skulk away...
Slog just won't be the same without you!
How do the current laws not treat everyone equally?
Any man can marry a woman. No one will ask if you are gay or bi or hetero because it doesn't matter, we are all treated the same.
"But Wait!" you wail...
"Homosexuals can't marry the person they LOVE!!!"
(whaaaa)
As Tina said;
What's Love got to do with it?
No one at the courthouse will ask you about 'Love' when you get a license. No one cares if you love your spouse or grow to love them or are sick of them after three months. The government doesn't guarantee hetero's they can marry who they love.
Grow up.
And stop pouting.
79
@78
Not pouting, bitching. I'll only skulk off if I don't get my bunny.
Yes, lesbians and gays are eligible for the same legal benefits as heterosexual couples so long as they deceive themselves and some unlucky member of the opposite sex. It's a beautiful arrangement and has always produced healthy, long-lived marriages and happy, stress-free offspring.
Or I suppose there's the full disclosure route: "I'm not at all attracted to you but would like a tax break so my real partner and I can breathe easier." My heart blooms with romance...
Not pouting, bitching. I'll only skulk off if I don't get my bunny.
Yes, lesbians and gays are eligible for the same legal benefits as heterosexual couples so long as they deceive themselves and some unlucky member of the opposite sex. It's a beautiful arrangement and has always produced healthy, long-lived marriages and happy, stress-free offspring.
Or I suppose there's the full disclosure route: "I'm not at all attracted to you but would like a tax break so my real partner and I can breathe easier." My heart blooms with romance...
81
All the gays I know are products/progeny of heterosexual couples. So if they grew up in homes with the "right' kind of role models, then why aren't they straight?
Conundrum, much?
PS. I guess I must be a commie, homo loving, son of a gun! : )
Conundrum, much?
PS. I guess I must be a commie, homo loving, son of a gun! : )
82
79
True, the bar isn't set very high (at least statistically).
81
I was a perfectly well-adjusted heterosexual child until one day, while innocently smoking pot with a hippy, I encountered the pernicious homosexual agenda. Since then I've devoted my life to silencing Christians (has anyone seen my duct tape?), promoting interspecies sex, and skewing scientific studies.
Gays are the new Illuminati and I'm a card-carrying member. It gets me great discounts at Best Buy.
For the literal minded: no, pot-smoking hippies didn't contribute to my lesbianism. Blame it on the diabolical dual-influence of Wonder Woman and Princess Leia.
Three cheers for commie, homo loving, son of a guns!
True, the bar isn't set very high (at least statistically).
81
I was a perfectly well-adjusted heterosexual child until one day, while innocently smoking pot with a hippy, I encountered the pernicious homosexual agenda. Since then I've devoted my life to silencing Christians (has anyone seen my duct tape?), promoting interspecies sex, and skewing scientific studies.
Gays are the new Illuminati and I'm a card-carrying member. It gets me great discounts at Best Buy.
For the literal minded: no, pot-smoking hippies didn't contribute to my lesbianism. Blame it on the diabolical dual-influence of Wonder Woman and Princess Leia.
Three cheers for commie, homo loving, son of a guns!
83
Our system is not equal right now. Take out the topic of gay marriage and just look at marriage.
As a married person one gets: tax breaks, immigration rights, death benefits, medical insurance (in all states), power to make medical decisions for your spouse, power to make death decisions for your spouse, rights of inheritance, pre-determined paternity (in fact, you’d have to prove you’re NOT the father), half of everything, etc. I could go on, but I’m supposed to be working…
Anyway, marriage itself is not fair and equal. It’s not constitutional, either. If it’s a religious state that churches can decide who gets to be and who doesn’t, then the legal and monetary privileges given by marriage is a violation of the separation of church and state. If it’s a civil state and managed by our government (hence all the fabulous privileges), then it has to be opened up to any two people who (for any reason whatsoever) want to be hitched together. Otherwise, it’s a violation of equal rights.
So equality: get the government out of marriage, no privileges for anyone. OR, give any two legal-aged adults the right to join this privileged club.
As a married person one gets: tax breaks, immigration rights, death benefits, medical insurance (in all states), power to make medical decisions for your spouse, power to make death decisions for your spouse, rights of inheritance, pre-determined paternity (in fact, you’d have to prove you’re NOT the father), half of everything, etc. I could go on, but I’m supposed to be working…
Anyway, marriage itself is not fair and equal. It’s not constitutional, either. If it’s a religious state that churches can decide who gets to be and who doesn’t, then the legal and monetary privileges given by marriage is a violation of the separation of church and state. If it’s a civil state and managed by our government (hence all the fabulous privileges), then it has to be opened up to any two people who (for any reason whatsoever) want to be hitched together. Otherwise, it’s a violation of equal rights.
So equality: get the government out of marriage, no privileges for anyone. OR, give any two legal-aged adults the right to join this privileged club.
84
i'm surprised that through this whole thread nobody's made the case that homosexuals might actually make better parents in many circumstances because of the lengths that they have to go to to bring children into their lives. a child who is pursued and adopted and raised in the face of all this controversy is TRULY a WANTED child, unlike so many who were unplanned. Read Dan's book, 'The Kid,' and you will see in detail how far he and Terry had to go to prove their worth as parents with the adoption agencies. Any hetero couple can get together and make a baby but that doesn't mean that they're going to love it, nurture it, provide for it, etc. Knowing what I know about the adoption process, I can definitely say that any adopted child is a WANTED child, and with the additional hoops that gays and lesbians must jump through in order to prove themselves, I can only assume that their adopted children are the most wanted of all.
85
84: You make several excellent points. Specifically, that a wanted child is far likely to have good nurturing parents. While, I can't say that the desire that fueled Dan and Terry's pursuit of parenthood was any greater than my friend Lindsey and her husband's 10 year battle with infertility, or even my own desire for my children. I can agree that the hoops same-sex couples must leap through is evidence of their sincere desire to become parents. A very human desire which I support.
87
hi kim!
thank you for pointing out my irresponsible generalization ... what i really meant to say at the end there was something more to the effect of what you said. IVF is another excellent example of the extraordinary lengths people go to to become parents. and as a mom of two i know i couldn't want my children more.
i wanted to say, however clumsily, that i would bet that, as a percentage, children being mistreated by parents who went to such lengths to have them are probably near zero, unlike in situations where the children were more easy to come by. even that doesn't really read right, but you know what i mean!
thank you for pointing out my irresponsible generalization ... what i really meant to say at the end there was something more to the effect of what you said. IVF is another excellent example of the extraordinary lengths people go to to become parents. and as a mom of two i know i couldn't want my children more.
i wanted to say, however clumsily, that i would bet that, as a percentage, children being mistreated by parents who went to such lengths to have them are probably near zero, unlike in situations where the children were more easy to come by. even that doesn't really read right, but you know what i mean!
88
F.Y.I.
I just Googled the word Saddleback and Saddlebacking now appears on the first page as item number 10.
I just Googled the word Saddleback and Saddlebacking now appears on the first page as item number 10.
89
@86 Filing joint returns can be beneficial, depending on your situation. But you're absolutely right: marriage is a dual-edged sword and it certainly doesn't always help your financial status. The health insurance benefits seem more worthwhile to me.
Mostly I'd just like to be able to choose legal marriage, for better or for worse, than have the option withheld from me. It's oddly disconcerting being married in real life and single on paper. I'd rather accept the difficulties than live this false dichotomy.
Mostly I'd just like to be able to choose legal marriage, for better or for worse, than have the option withheld from me. It's oddly disconcerting being married in real life and single on paper. I'd rather accept the difficulties than live this false dichotomy.
90
P.S. Not that being single on paper isn’t fun. My two-dimensional single self will be going to clubs, ingesting inappropriate amounts of alcohol, and having sex all tonight. My three-dimensional married self will be conducting a painting workshop in the gallery I own with my partner. I’m hoping for pics and a postcard from 2-D me.
91
mr. herriman,
Yes, I do get the point your making. I agree that a child being sincerely wanted can reduce the chance of it being abused. It is not 100% fool proof, sadly my own childhood is evident of that. Being a good parent comes down to who we are. Are we kind? Are we nurturing? Can we accept correction? Do we always insist on our own way? Are we faithfull? Are we trustworthy? Are we responsible? Are we willing to strike a balance with our needs and the needs of the child, remembering that the child comes first? Are we mature? Can we face our personal baggage, deal with it responsibly and leave it at the door? Can we love others and ourselves? Can we forgive and seek forgiveness? Those are just some of the qualities needed to be a good parent. And, none of them are dependent upon gender or sexual orientation.
Yes, I do get the point your making. I agree that a child being sincerely wanted can reduce the chance of it being abused. It is not 100% fool proof, sadly my own childhood is evident of that. Being a good parent comes down to who we are. Are we kind? Are we nurturing? Can we accept correction? Do we always insist on our own way? Are we faithfull? Are we trustworthy? Are we responsible? Are we willing to strike a balance with our needs and the needs of the child, remembering that the child comes first? Are we mature? Can we face our personal baggage, deal with it responsibly and leave it at the door? Can we love others and ourselves? Can we forgive and seek forgiveness? Those are just some of the qualities needed to be a good parent. And, none of them are dependent upon gender or sexual orientation.
92
I should also add the following. Can we set boundaries? Can we correct with love? Can we be patient, especially when correcting and teaching? Can we apologize with humility? Can we accept that somedays our best efforts are going to fall short? Can we accept the child for who he or she is, and let our expectations fall? These are things I strive for, sometimes I can meet them and sometimes I fail. Afterall, I am only human. But, I don't stop striving to be a good nurturing parent.
95
Did you fasten their seat belts?
Next you could show them "A Letter to Three Wives", and then "The Women".
Next you could show them "A Letter to Three Wives", and then "The Women".
96
Kids need to be in a stable home headed by a loving adult(s). Kids need the stability of knowing they are part of a love much bigger than themselves.
98
So funny how Loveschild always disappears or re-aliases when his/her facts run out. I get such a guilty little charge every time it happens. tee hee.
99
@89 Estate planning is a big area with advantage to married couples. We face lots of issues if we don't set up our property with trusts, etc. The surviving partner may be taxed on the deceased partner's share of jointly held assets.
100
@99, thank you, I'd forgotten about that. There are so many areas it affects, it's hard to keep track of them all. I think one of the most horrendous consequences is that family can prevent a person's spouse from being present during a hospitalization (when, of course, the spouse can't speak up for himself/herself).
101
I'm with Allyn. A church wedding is a religious ceremony and I think that if churches want to marry people in a certain way and they want to say that they will only marry a man and a woman and they have to be virgins (saddlebacking still okay, of course) or any other set of arbitrary criteria they can, because we have freedom of religion in this country.
But we also have separation of church and state, which is why I think we should give everbody, gay and straight, civil unions, with the partner bennefits of marriage. I think there should be only civil unions under the state and churches can marry who they want.
By the way, Kim in Portland, are you a lapsed Christian? What you said in 91 is straight out of Corinthains.
But we also have separation of church and state, which is why I think we should give everbody, gay and straight, civil unions, with the partner bennefits of marriage. I think there should be only civil unions under the state and churches can marry who they want.
By the way, Kim in Portland, are you a lapsed Christian? What you said in 91 is straight out of Corinthains.
102
Anarfea,
Nope, I'm not lapsed. Attend weekly services and all. I wasn't thinking about Corinthians, but it does read some what like 1 Cor. 13. I was just listing things God has taught me, as I have dealt with my own baggage (as refered to in post 91).
Nope, I'm not lapsed. Attend weekly services and all. I wasn't thinking about Corinthians, but it does read some what like 1 Cor. 13. I was just listing things God has taught me, as I have dealt with my own baggage (as refered to in post 91).
103
I agree with Anarfea, the government needs to get out of the marriage business completely. instead, the states should give out civil union licenses that grant equal legal rights and priviledges regardless of the orientation of the couple. Then, the couple can take the responsibility to find a church, synagogue or mosque to bless their union if they so desire it.
104
All About Eve is literally littered with amazing lines.
--(When Bill offers to buy Margot a drink to calm her down: "I'll admit I've seen better days, but I'm still not to be had for the price of a cocktail...like a salted peanut."
--"Read my column. The minutes will fly by like hours" (Addison DeWitt)
I could go on and on (GAWD I'm SOOO GAY!!) But the most famous: "Fasten your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy night".
--(When Bill offers to buy Margot a drink to calm her down: "I'll admit I've seen better days, but I'm still not to be had for the price of a cocktail...like a salted peanut."
--"Read my column. The minutes will fly by like hours" (Addison DeWitt)
I could go on and on (GAWD I'm SOOO GAY!!) But the most famous: "Fasten your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy night".
105
@ 101 - Way to go! You used "saddlebacking" in a perfectly appropriate, non-gratuitous way, no quotes, just threw it in there. Good job!
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