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News & ArtsMonday, February 16, 2009
News Uh-Oh
Posted by Brendan Kiley on Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 6:35 PM
From the P-I:
A 16-year-old girl died and a second 16-year-old girl was found unconscious early Sunday morning at a Fort Lewis Army barracks.Army officials questioned a soldier involved in the incident and called it a "tragedy," but refused to release details about the investigation.
The second girl was revived and transported to Madigan Army Medical Center at the base south of Tacoma, where she was listed in stable condition on Monday.
Both girls, according to Army officials, were from the south Puget Sound area and were not military dependents.
(And for our friends at NARN, from a few days ago: Ft. Lewis goat mutilations!)
1
I know this wasn't your intention, but the parenthetical message at the end of your posting just serves to reinforce my image of NARN and their ilk as people who will line up to publicly express outrage at the death of a domestic animal and yet remain completely silent at the death of a sixteen year old girl.
2
When I attended Evergreen in my young and stupid days, there were a couple months where the Fort Lewis guys figured out that Evergreen was the nearest college campus to party at. It was hell-- lots of dickhead rednecks jonesing to beat up hippie boys and starting fights, lots of the same dickhead rednecks trying to get girls to go off with them or just trying to drag you into a bathroom. At some point, I assume that Evergreen contacted Fort Lewis and told them to GTFO, because all of a sudden, it went from attempted-date-rape central to the usual pack of vaguely disoriented kids with bongos.
And the goat mutilations thing? A relative was trained as a Ranger medic, and said that they were taught by shooting goats, then running out and treating them for the gunshot wounds in the field. Supposedly after being shot, the goats were taken off to a farm to live out the rest of their goaty lives, but I highly doubt that.
And the goat mutilations thing? A relative was trained as a Ranger medic, and said that they were taught by shooting goats, then running out and treating them for the gunshot wounds in the field. Supposedly after being shot, the goats were taken off to a farm to live out the rest of their goaty lives, but I highly doubt that.
5
@1 no, animal rights activists state over and over again that animal abuse is a precursor towards violence against humans. If anything, they'll use this incident as a way of saying "we told you so."
6
@5: So they'll be out there tomorrow with signs demanding justice for this girl, right? No?
My point. Priorities.
My point. Priorities.
7
@6, so NARN has to protest every injustice that occurs on the face of the Earth just because they are involved in animal rights?
8
@1
I totally agree. In fact, I also wonder why we haven't heard a peep from the NAACP nor the ADL. For shame.
I totally agree. In fact, I also wonder why we haven't heard a peep from the NAACP nor the ADL. For shame.
10
Leave it to the classy Brendan Kiley to turn a tragedy into a flippant, glib post on Slog.
And yes, Brendan, I know you've never said that you're classy. And I know this is just a blog. But you are still a douche, especially on no dick day.
And yes, Brendan, I know you've never said that you're classy. And I know this is just a blog. But you are still a douche, especially on no dick day.
11
yeah, stranger staff gets a fail for no dick day.
the goat quip at the end was extremely peevish, snarky and unnecessary.
the flip side to the "priorities" camp: so by your reasoning, no one should be protesting the shooting of goats because, quite plainly, there will ALWAYS be a bigger priority.
so really, NO ONE should give a damn? great way to make sure that a whole lot of evil and suffering keeps happening.
the goat quip at the end was extremely peevish, snarky and unnecessary.
the flip side to the "priorities" camp: so by your reasoning, no one should be protesting the shooting of goats because, quite plainly, there will ALWAYS be a bigger priority.
so really, NO ONE should give a damn? great way to make sure that a whole lot of evil and suffering keeps happening.
12
Because when ironic self-referential pop culture posts fail, it's time to make fun of dead teenagers and, in the past, babies with Down's Syndrome. Apparently the pre-screening for a job at The Strangler doesn't involve a psych eval. Or maybe it does but the screening in criteria are a bit, shall we say, non-standard?
13
@11: No, I think people absolutely should protest things that they object to. If you object to the treatment of animals, by all means go and protest. It's your right.
However, I reserve the right to think that many of the more strident voices protesting the treatment of animals care conspicuously more about animals than people. And that to me speaks of misplaced priorities.
However, I reserve the right to think that many of the more strident voices protesting the treatment of animals care conspicuously more about animals than people. And that to me speaks of misplaced priorities.
14
Ah, yes. Two girls are dead and the Stranger jumps in with:
- Insightful snark from Brandon Kiley!
- Arguments over what animal rights groups should protest! (talk about priorities, @13)
- Thinly veiled racist remarks (@3, "groids" being the beat-the-spam-software term for blacks)
Never mind the possibility of heartbroken families and friends, as long as you can get a gag out of it.
- Insightful snark from Brandon Kiley!
- Arguments over what animal rights groups should protest! (talk about priorities, @13)
- Thinly veiled racist remarks (@3, "groids" being the beat-the-spam-software term for blacks)
Never mind the possibility of heartbroken families and friends, as long as you can get a gag out of it.
15
@14: If you really had something to say, you'd stand by your opinions by using a consistent name. Since you have no interest in saying anything of any substance, you sign off with a different name every time, assuring that you get to attack others, and nobody is able to respond to you. So who's being a jerk here?
My original point was just that when faced with a murder of a person and the (probably) fatal injury of a goat, only the goat prompts public protest, and I find that disturbing. Do you disagree with this point? Would you care to express an opinion on the matter?
My original point was just that when faced with a murder of a person and the (probably) fatal injury of a goat, only the goat prompts public protest, and I find that disturbing. Do you disagree with this point? Would you care to express an opinion on the matter?
16
flamingbanjo is right! We should rise up and demand that the police investigate when a person is murdered. Murderers should be identified, and perhaps, nay, definietly, murdering a person be made illegal! We need laws passed to address this heinous crime-like killing of people. Did I say crime-like? It IS a crime. Or it should be. It WILL be criminalized! Let's get out there people and march to make murder illegal!!!!
Thanks, flamingbanjo! Needed reforms are possible only if we take to the streets and make our voices heard!
Thanks, flamingbanjo! Needed reforms are possible only if we take to the streets and make our voices heard!
17
@16: Sigh. Well, thanks for using a consistent screen name, anyway, from a half-way decent movie (Office space was better.)
I just remembered why I stopped commenting.
I just remembered why I stopped commenting.
18
@15, apparently you didn't read the article or any of the links.
1) Five days ago (2/11), PETA sent a letter to Fort Lewis demanding an end to the use of goats in military trauma training exercises.
2) The girls were found dead Sunday morning (2/15).
3) PETA is not NARN. I looked at NARN's website and found no mention of PETA's letter or use of goats at Fort Lewis. Brendan just included that last sentence to be a snarky shit, and to egg people into commenting.
4) If you had read through the flamewar last week, you would have seen numerous responses from NARN members clearly stating that they as individuals work on a variety of humanitarian, civil rights and animal rights work.
5) This whole thing of "NARN should have priorities" is so tired. What are they supposed to do, go down to Fort Lewis and meddle in a criminal investigation? NARN had nothing to do with protesting the treatment of goats there, nor should anybody else dictate to them what their "priorities" should be. It's a free country.
6) I used to use a consistent handle on Slog. But about six months ago it became apparent that most of the regular commenters had formed a nasty clique and were just treating everyone like shit, and I thought, what's the point? So I will continue to put whatever I want in the name field until Slog starts comment registration.
7) Those are my opinions. I am not a NARN member. I am not a vegan. I honestly don't really give a shit about them. But the Stranger's childish besmirching of a local activist group is tired and pathetic, as is Brendan's use of a tragedy to make a snarky Slog post.
1) Five days ago (2/11), PETA sent a letter to Fort Lewis demanding an end to the use of goats in military trauma training exercises.
2) The girls were found dead Sunday morning (2/15).
3) PETA is not NARN. I looked at NARN's website and found no mention of PETA's letter or use of goats at Fort Lewis. Brendan just included that last sentence to be a snarky shit, and to egg people into commenting.
4) If you had read through the flamewar last week, you would have seen numerous responses from NARN members clearly stating that they as individuals work on a variety of humanitarian, civil rights and animal rights work.
5) This whole thing of "NARN should have priorities" is so tired. What are they supposed to do, go down to Fort Lewis and meddle in a criminal investigation? NARN had nothing to do with protesting the treatment of goats there, nor should anybody else dictate to them what their "priorities" should be. It's a free country.
6) I used to use a consistent handle on Slog. But about six months ago it became apparent that most of the regular commenters had formed a nasty clique and were just treating everyone like shit, and I thought, what's the point? So I will continue to put whatever I want in the name field until Slog starts comment registration.
7) Those are my opinions. I am not a NARN member. I am not a vegan. I honestly don't really give a shit about them. But the Stranger's childish besmirching of a local activist group is tired and pathetic, as is Brendan's use of a tragedy to make a snarky Slog post.
20
whoa, we need to seriously riot in the streets to force people to use consistent handles and perhaps have a national handle registry where we are forced to wear our handles branded onto our foreheads with much weeping and gnashing of teeth... and then stand by and defend our comments on this junk mail piece of shit blog...
by the way, puget debs aint got no heart... i didn't say it.. Lou Gosset said it...I just got nowhere else to go.
by the way, puget debs aint got no heart... i didn't say it.. Lou Gosset said it...I just got nowhere else to go.
22
um flaminbanjo?
according to the article, the "protest" consisted of a letter sent on Feb 11. That was an entire week ago.
The death happened yesterday, and reports didn't go out until today. Give it time, there will probably be letters sent. send one!
And. I think it isn't just *one* death of a goat that is the issue here; it is systematically corrupt policy of forcing suffering on many goats.
Dude, they were shooting goats and then practicing surgery on them. That's how everyone got trained.
#15 "My original point was just that when faced with a murder of a person and the (probably) fatal injury of a goat, only the goat prompts public protest, and I find that disturbing."
according to the article, the "protest" consisted of a letter sent on Feb 11. That was an entire week ago.
The death happened yesterday, and reports didn't go out until today. Give it time, there will probably be letters sent. send one!
And. I think it isn't just *one* death of a goat that is the issue here; it is systematically corrupt policy of forcing suffering on many goats.
Dude, they were shooting goats and then practicing surgery on them. That's how everyone got trained.
#15 "My original point was just that when faced with a murder of a person and the (probably) fatal injury of a goat, only the goat prompts public protest, and I find that disturbing."
24
Until I actually moved to Seattle, Fort Lewis (which is bigger than you think) was one of the places I'd seen the most of.
Security? Yeah, sure ...
Security? Yeah, sure ...
25
I cannot think of a forum that is more ill-prepared to address this topic.
1. Goats, NARN, etc... There's a dead girl involved here and this is the topic of conversation for the majority of the comments on this board? Clearly the life of a goat carries more weight that the death of a girl for those commenting.
2. As to the girl being on base, etc... Yes, the investigation should be turned over to the local police and more than likely will be. At the very least the autopsy should be performed by a civilian M.E.
I would however, be very surprised if the outcome goes beyond Alcohol poising and/or an overdose.
The politics on this board make it very easy to create some indictment on the Army/Military as a whole. Keep in mind the majority of the Military forces on this base are 18-21 year olds, who are living under the yoke of military discipline. When they get time off they are going to behave like uncoiled springs.
I'd guess this whole situation is nothing more than a coupe 18 or 19 year old enlisted soldiers who binge drank with a couple girls, with little or no drinking experience, and one of them died from Alcohol poisoning.
Military justice in this case is going to be far worse than any civilian court, especially as this happened on base.
3. Keep in mind people, the stuff we are seeing coming out of Ft. Lewis, we've got thousands of troops rotating in and out of Ft. Lewis who are either entering or returning from combat duty. We are going to be seeing A LOT of this fallout for years to come.
In general the military gives one a sense of invincibility while living in a state of lawlessness. While it may not be your reality, it is for those serving... especially in combat situations.
More...
1. Goats, NARN, etc... There's a dead girl involved here and this is the topic of conversation for the majority of the comments on this board? Clearly the life of a goat carries more weight that the death of a girl for those commenting.
2. As to the girl being on base, etc... Yes, the investigation should be turned over to the local police and more than likely will be. At the very least the autopsy should be performed by a civilian M.E.
I would however, be very surprised if the outcome goes beyond Alcohol poising and/or an overdose.
The politics on this board make it very easy to create some indictment on the Army/Military as a whole. Keep in mind the majority of the Military forces on this base are 18-21 year olds, who are living under the yoke of military discipline. When they get time off they are going to behave like uncoiled springs.
I'd guess this whole situation is nothing more than a coupe 18 or 19 year old enlisted soldiers who binge drank with a couple girls, with little or no drinking experience, and one of them died from Alcohol poisoning.
Military justice in this case is going to be far worse than any civilian court, especially as this happened on base.
3. Keep in mind people, the stuff we are seeing coming out of Ft. Lewis, we've got thousands of troops rotating in and out of Ft. Lewis who are either entering or returning from combat duty. We are going to be seeing A LOT of this fallout for years to come.
In general the military gives one a sense of invincibility while living in a state of lawlessness. While it may not be your reality, it is for those serving... especially in combat situations.
26
wow, I'm shocked that no one else has commented that this entire tragic and odd event seems sort of Lynchian/Twin Peaks-ish.
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