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News & ArtsTuesday, February 10, 2009
Religion I Beg Your Indulgence
Posted by Paul Constant on Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 12:03 PM
The Catholic Church is seriously considering bringing back indulgences.
You can get one for yourself, or for someone who is dead. You cannot buy one — the church outlawed the sale of indulgences in 1567 — but charitable contributions, combined with other acts, can help you earn one. There is a limit of one plenary indulgence per sinner per day.
I wonder which charities will reap the benefits of these indulgences? It's like a whole economy built on sin.
2
They're not exactly considering it - they actually have brought them back. It's made a serious dent in any respect I had for catholics being rational people on any level. Heck, I thought they'd abolished the entire concept of purgatory years ago - which was the only point to indulgences in the first place.
4
I thought I had something pithy to say about raising funds for paying off clerical sex abuse cases, but I guess I don't. These guys are just making shit up, like they have been for a couple thousand years. Salvation for sale, and a discount on purgatory if you cough up the cash. Something tells me Jesus would not be amused.
5
@2-ack, I should learn to read the articles first-these started up again in 2000 with Pope John Paul
6
I think it would be awesome if indulgences were bought for dead Mormons and notices were sent to their families.
Sort of like how Mormons posthumously baptize Jews.
Sort of like how Mormons posthumously baptize Jews.
7
Do they accept donations in kind - like letting Father McFeely rub his genitals on your kid? (Saddly English lacks Greek's distinction between a present and aorist infinitive needed to really express that properly.)
8
Since the original story is in the New York Times and since the blog you linked to pretty much just copied large chunks of the story, why not link directly to the Times?
You know, help save newspapers and reward those who provide original content. I'm sure The Stranger would appreciate the same.
You know, help save newspapers and reward those who provide original content. I'm sure The Stranger would appreciate the same.
11
Indulgences never actually went away - how you obtained them changed. Instead of paying for them, you are expected to do certain practices, like praying a particular novena druing a particular time of year, or saying so many rosaries, or something else like that.
And purgatory is still very much a real concept in the Catholic church. They got rid of Limbo, which basically was a "place" where unbaptized babies would go where they wouldn't suffer, but they wouldn't be in the presence of God, either. Now the catechism says that the unbaptized are entrusted to the mercy of God.
All of this stuff is a big part of why I don't count myself among the Catholics any more.
And purgatory is still very much a real concept in the Catholic church. They got rid of Limbo, which basically was a "place" where unbaptized babies would go where they wouldn't suffer, but they wouldn't be in the presence of God, either. Now the catechism says that the unbaptized are entrusted to the mercy of God.
All of this stuff is a big part of why I don't count myself among the Catholics any more.
12
@11 -- well at least you know what you are talking about.
I can't believe how many people spout off about Catholcism yet have no grounding in its hisotry or theology.
I can't believe how many people spout off about Catholcism yet have no grounding in its hisotry or theology.
13
This is almost as ludicrous as rock stars paying Al Gore atonement money for flying their jets around the globe.
15
Do they give money back to those who paid for indulgences for souls who ate meat on Fridays before it was okay to do so?
I wonder if one of the charities will be the bail fund for those child molesting Jesuits in Alaska. or as the locals call them the Papist Rapists.
I wonder if one of the charities will be the bail fund for those child molesting Jesuits in Alaska. or as the locals call them the Papist Rapists.
16
NYT forgot to mention: Two plenary indulgences per sinner per day if you present your Safeway Club Card.
17
Child rape is proving expensive. Imaginary hell is a good way to frighten stupid people into giving you cash. And money is what that filthy religion is all about. That and murder. And after all, what would you expect from a pope that thinks Galileo got what he deserved.
19
You know, my whole family is Catholic (except for my Jewish grandfather, but he's like BARELY Jewish). I went to Catholic school for twelve years, was confirmed (solely for the purpose of placating my non-Jewish grandparents), and have been bitching about Catholics for YEARS.
That said, I always got upset when people who weren't raised Catholics bitched about Catholics. I felt like it wasn't their place. I also felt, in my heart of hearts, that Catholics were not as bad as all those other Christians going around bombing abortion clinics and hatin' on the gays and shit...
But this is fucking ridiculous. This pope has got to go. What a tool. He's making the rest of us Catholics (ex- or otherwise) look really bad. We should get my cousin Jack the priest (who once told my dad that whether or not Jesus actually existed was irrelevant) to be pope. He was super stoked that the Obama referred to gay rights as "civil rights." Said it was what Jesus would have done.
So seriously, Pope "Adolf" Benedict the Douche, wtf? Go fuck yourself.
And also, if you bring back indulgences, I'm super converting from "Recovering Catholic" to "Lapsed Jew." Amen.
That said, I always got upset when people who weren't raised Catholics bitched about Catholics. I felt like it wasn't their place. I also felt, in my heart of hearts, that Catholics were not as bad as all those other Christians going around bombing abortion clinics and hatin' on the gays and shit...
But this is fucking ridiculous. This pope has got to go. What a tool. He's making the rest of us Catholics (ex- or otherwise) look really bad. We should get my cousin Jack the priest (who once told my dad that whether or not Jesus actually existed was irrelevant) to be pope. He was super stoked that the Obama referred to gay rights as "civil rights." Said it was what Jesus would have done.
So seriously, Pope "Adolf" Benedict the Douche, wtf? Go fuck yourself.
And also, if you bring back indulgences, I'm super converting from "Recovering Catholic" to "Lapsed Jew." Amen.
20
Can someone explain the Catholic Voodoo to me?
I was at the St. James Christmas Eve carol service, and all of a sudden the bishop & his entourage come sashaying up the aisle, weasring their finest dresses & party hats. One of them is swinging a smoking incense ball ...I kid you not! It was smoking up the entire huge church.
A few minutes later they started chanting in Latin, and my friend & I were able to escape just before we fell under their spell.
What's up with this smoking ball??? Is it tannis root, meant to purge satanic thoughts & deeds? I thought tannis root was only for witches (whose parties are *much* more fun).
I was at the St. James Christmas Eve carol service, and all of a sudden the bishop & his entourage come sashaying up the aisle, weasring their finest dresses & party hats. One of them is swinging a smoking incense ball ...I kid you not! It was smoking up the entire huge church.
A few minutes later they started chanting in Latin, and my friend & I were able to escape just before we fell under their spell.
What's up with this smoking ball??? Is it tannis root, meant to purge satanic thoughts & deeds? I thought tannis root was only for witches (whose parties are *much* more fun).
21
@20 - It is incense. Different churches use different types (scents), but it usually contains at least frankincense, cedar, and often jasmine notes.
The purpose of it (and it generally is only used on feast days like Christmas, Easter, Good Friday, etc.) is two fold. First, it is intended to be a purifying agent. Second, it is symbolic of the prayes of the faithful rising to heaven (see Psalm 114 if you are curious).
You'll also see that when an object or a person in incensed, the person doing the incensing will generally swing the censer in groups of three. This is symbolic of the trinity.
Yeah, that minor in theology I'm not using comes in handy for things like this, Trivial Pursuit, and Jeopardy.
The purpose of it (and it generally is only used on feast days like Christmas, Easter, Good Friday, etc.) is two fold. First, it is intended to be a purifying agent. Second, it is symbolic of the prayes of the faithful rising to heaven (see Psalm 114 if you are curious).
You'll also see that when an object or a person in incensed, the person doing the incensing will generally swing the censer in groups of three. This is symbolic of the trinity.
Yeah, that minor in theology I'm not using comes in handy for things like this, Trivial Pursuit, and Jeopardy.
24
@23 - Thurible is the fancy, official, church word. Censer is used pretty commonly in contemporary times, though.
25
Episcopalians use incense censers too; it's not exclusively Catholic. And I agree with Jocelyn, Ratzinger has got to go. He's trying not just to single-handedly undo Vatican II, he's trying to set the church back 200 years. I can't stand Brownshirt Bennie.
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