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News & ArtsSaturday, February 7, 2009
Politics / Media Et Tu, Peter Sagal?
Posted by Dan Savage on Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 12:26 PM
This morning I was listening to Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me on KUOW—yeah yeah... don't ream me—and host Peter Sagal trotted out the GOP's latest UNTP (that's "Uppity Nigger" Talking Point"): Barack Obama was photographed in the Oval Office during his first full day on the job without a jacket. George W. Bush—who worked so hard to restore honor and dignity to the office—had a very strict rule about that: no one was allowed in the Oval Office without a jacket and tie. Even on weekends! And Bush enforced this dress code because he believed that lolling about the Oval Office in informal attire showed a lack of respect for the office of the presidency, the American people, past and future presidents, blah de blah blah. Former Bush Chief of Staff Andrew Card has been the point person for the latest UNTP. And Sagal—a card-carrying member of the liberal media—regurgitated Card's UNTP this morning: Unlike George W. Bush—who had some respect for the presidency—this Barack Obama person doesn't wear a jacket in the Oval Office.
Ahem:
That's George W. Bush sitting in the Oval Office WITHOUT A JACKET ON. And guess who else Huffington Post caught in the Oval Office without a jacket?
That's St. Ronald of California, of course, and not only isn't St. Ronald wearing a jacket, he's also not wearing a tie—and are those JEANS?!? Huffington Post also has pictures of JFK, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton at work in the Oval Office without jackets on. The media needs to stop peddling this UNTP and fact check future UNTPs before helping to disseminate them. Remember: they lie. About big things, about little things, about pretty much everything.
2
I'm glad that there are pictures showing all those past presidents not a jacket and tie... but being upset that he's not wearing a suit jacket is, on its face, ridiculous enough without the proof that other Presidents did it as well. Or, at least, it should be.
I truly do not understand what the problem here is. Business casual on weekends, suits during the workweek (with jackets removed and replaced as necessary). Few workplaces still require formal business attire, but even folks I know who work at formal offices still take their jackets off to do actual work and them put them back on when they need to.
I'm sure there are people other than Baby Boomers who are getting their knickers in a twist about this, but every time I hear this UNTP, I think, shut the fuck up Boomers. You are no longer in charge. Get with the new program.
I truly do not understand what the problem here is. Business casual on weekends, suits during the workweek (with jackets removed and replaced as necessary). Few workplaces still require formal business attire, but even folks I know who work at formal offices still take their jackets off to do actual work and them put them back on when they need to.
I'm sure there are people other than Baby Boomers who are getting their knickers in a twist about this, but every time I hear this UNTP, I think, shut the fuck up Boomers. You are no longer in charge. Get with the new program.
3
It's sort of sad that the responses to these bits of republican idiocy are, "But you're doing it, too!" and not a simple rejection of the idea that such rank conformism has any value.
This is why we should move the White House to the west coast. The east coast is obviously too fucking snobby.
This is why we should move the White House to the west coast. The east coast is obviously too fucking snobby.
4
I don't actually think anyone cared much about Card's retarded statements.
Why would anyone ream you for listening to "Wait, Wait Don't Tell Me?"
Why would anyone ream you for listening to "Wait, Wait Don't Tell Me?"
5
I say this in the spirit of unity, but here's what I don't get about Republicans: Aside from their fiscal policies, they've touted some pretty oppressive policies about - well - everybody who isn't a white power broker, women, GLBTs, blacks, browns, non-believers, you name it.
I know there are thoughtful, compassionate Republicans out there, but how can they be Republicans seeing what the Republican Party has been edging toward since Reagan? Basically, it's OK for thousands and thousands to go hungry if any program that might cure that problem would interfere with my right to own four Hummers. When anyone brings up more economic justice in the US, they scream, "Class warfare!" And all that talk about family values? You know that's code for intolerance, right?
So how can decent, intelligent, compassionate people associate themselves with a party that is in many ways so opposite all that?
I know there are thoughtful, compassionate Republicans out there, but how can they be Republicans seeing what the Republican Party has been edging toward since Reagan? Basically, it's OK for thousands and thousands to go hungry if any program that might cure that problem would interfere with my right to own four Hummers. When anyone brings up more economic justice in the US, they scream, "Class warfare!" And all that talk about family values? You know that's code for intolerance, right?
So how can decent, intelligent, compassionate people associate themselves with a party that is in many ways so opposite all that?
6
Congratulations Dan.
You've busted this sinister GOP lie WIDE OPEN!
Start clearing space on your mantle for a Pulitzer Prize.
You've busted this sinister GOP lie WIDE OPEN!
Start clearing space on your mantle for a Pulitzer Prize.
7
Sagal makes me uncomfortable. He's so ready to compromise his intelligence, always trying to sell himself out and finding no one's buying. I think Luke Burbank really scared him for a while, too. Are all playwrights that unhappy? Lewis Black seems to have found a happier place.
8
this stuff from the Bush camp is hilarious. have they forgotten that Bush spent 1/7th of his presidency on a ranch clearing brush?
9
The Bush picture was circulated the first day that this all came out. Sorry you didn't see it, Dan.
10
i didn't get the impression that peter sagal was actually buying into that crap. just quizzing about stuff that happened. nothing to see here.
12
@8 Totally agree with you, just think "clearing brush" belongs in quotes. Same stupid play-acting Reagan did on his California "ranch." If you have an actual working ranch there might be some argument for it, but brush per se is not like trash blown in by the wind. It's wildlife habitat and soil stabilizer. Enlightened ranchers throughout the West often have reason to RESTORE native shrubs removed through overgrazing or killed by channelizing / redirecting creeks and streams in decades past.
14
Also, @raindrop - You've send a number of toolish comments, but this one... wow, that one is screaming "I'm such a tool!" to the streets.
Also, I completely agree with everyone about the ridiculous nature of this entire coat and tie thing. Should we start blaming Obama for not having a powdered wig too?
Also, I completely agree with everyone about the ridiculous nature of this entire coat and tie thing. Should we start blaming Obama for not having a powdered wig too?
17
I'm glad we now have confirmation that the appearance of doing work is more important, than, you know, actually doing any work. I'll keep that in mind when recollecting the last 8 years.
18
You take off your jacket because you are working hard. Hence the idiom "shirt sleeves" to describe hard work. GWB never needed to remove his jacket, and, like a typical Ivy League legacy type, would find the idea of hard work objectionable, something other people do. Reagan was from California, where these rules are null and void. Plus he sucked.
19
julie - boomers changed the formality of life. pre-boomers short hair, coat and tie, etc. - check out movies from pre mid sixties - look at the performers in the 50s and early 60s, they wore suits and ties.
boomers changed the world and
boomers changed the world and
20
By all means, Dan, let's take the bait and focus on meaningless-controversy-chum the GOP and/or WingNuts are steadily going to throw out, especially when the economy is excellent and we aren't at war. Oh, wait....
If anyone was paying anything close to attention for the last eight (or thirty) years, he or she is already quite aware of the steady stream of lies, very big and small.
If anyone was paying anything close to attention for the last eight (or thirty) years, he or she is already quite aware of the steady stream of lies, very big and small.
21
I believe that this is yet another case of someone mistaking a COMEDY SHOW for JOURNALISM. (TDS, anyone?) Let's focus on something that actually matters, OK?
23
I'd be willing to bet that Reagan did a "Risky Business" underwear dance in the Oval Office for Nancy. And W did one for what's-her-name.
27
If the "Obama doesn't wear a jacket in the oval office" is a UNTP its an awfully subtle one. I mean it doesn't strike me as negative.
30
I'm still waiting for the explanation regarding what's wrong with Wait Wait.
Did Dan do a Not My Job segment on there and it went poorly, or something?
Did Dan do a Not My Job segment on there and it went poorly, or something?
31
I thought the Bush Policy, what with all of the deceit, war crimes, waterboarding, suspension of habeas corpus, secret prisons in Poland and elsewhere was a slightly bigger affront to the Constitution that DRESS CODE.
Fuck off, GOP. Sore losers.
Fuck off, GOP. Sore losers.
33
Dan, it's my fault if I didn't make this clear, but I thought we were making fun of the whole idea that any of this mattered.
However, I do want to say that Amelia (@7) is correct about one thing: I am absolutely terrified of Luke Burbank.
Peter Sagal
However, I do want to say that Amelia (@7) is correct about one thing: I am absolutely terrified of Luke Burbank.
Peter Sagal
36
For Bauhaus @5:
This is why my sister, a die-hard Republican, who lives off of previous income and loathes the word tax with utter passion, voted Democrat last year. And her ex-husband, who believe Rush Limbaugh is a liberal stooge, bragged to me that he voted agains Bush in the previous election cycle. [He probably voted for McCain, though - haven't heard.]
The base is diminishing and the Republicans don't seem to notice - or care. That is why they still act like they matter.
This is why my sister, a die-hard Republican, who lives off of previous income and loathes the word tax with utter passion, voted Democrat last year. And her ex-husband, who believe Rush Limbaugh is a liberal stooge, bragged to me that he voted agains Bush in the previous election cycle. [He probably voted for McCain, though - haven't heard.]
The base is diminishing and the Republicans don't seem to notice - or care. That is why they still act like they matter.
37
I don't see what the big deal is, there were times when Clinton didn't wear pants in the Oval Office.
38
One, who would ream you for listening to Wait wait? It's my favorite show!
Two, wasn't Peter Sagal making fun Andrew Card for making that ridiculous "locker room" statement?
Two, wasn't Peter Sagal making fun Andrew Card for making that ridiculous "locker room" statement?
39
George Washington thought presidents should parade around like kings, and Thomas Jefferson greeted visitors in his pajamas. Seeing as they both had quite a bit invested in this whole "United States of America" thing, I think we can safely assume that neither one had any disrespect for the presidency.
41
Okay, the media should be taken to task for repeating such BS (come on, Card first said it in an interview to "Inside Edition", the tabloid TV show!!!--a show, curiously where Bill O'Reilly get his start, neh?) and is repeating it where ever he can get a sympathetic ear (eg Medved).
But blaming Peter and WWDTM for making fun of it? Will Jon Stewart get the same scorn and derision?
--Peter Sagal fanboy
But blaming Peter and WWDTM for making fun of it? Will Jon Stewart get the same scorn and derision?
--Peter Sagal fanboy
42
Oh for heaven's sake, who cares! They can come to work in the oval office in footie pajamas for all I care as long as they make good decisions while they are there!
To me, the whole Bush dress code is a lesson in "image over substance" rather than "respecting the dignity of the office".
Sheesh.
Oh for heaven's sake, who cares! They can come to work in the oval office in footie pajamas for all I care as long as they make good decisions while they are there!
To me, the whole Bush dress code is a lesson in "image over substance" rather than "respecting the dignity of the office".
Sheesh.
43
@38/MT
You are quite correct. As with most things on Wait Wait they were going for satire/sarcasm and some how the wires got crossed. Please check out Mr. Sagal's response - http://petersagal.com/wordpress/?p=209
You are quite correct. As with most things on Wait Wait they were going for satire/sarcasm and some how the wires got crossed. Please check out Mr. Sagal's response - http://petersagal.com/wordpress/?p=209
45
@movealong, that's pretty much how I saw it. Sagal was mentioning it, not criticizing Obama or buying into the "omg no suit" worriers.
46
It's all about overcompensation: it may seem like a bad thing to shred the Bill of Rights, but if you do it wearing a suit & tie, it's OK. It may seem like a bad thing to deal with a sleazeball like Jack Abramoff, but if you're both wearing a suit & tie, it's just "bidness."
The Republicans are very much like our grandparents, in that one's appearence counts for more than one's actions. No surprise there, though; they've already said that they want America to go back to the Leave It To Beaver World of the 50's. I put up some nice wallpaper in my fallout shelter this past weekend.
The Republicans are very much like our grandparents, in that one's appearence counts for more than one's actions. No surprise there, though; they've already said that they want America to go back to the Leave It To Beaver World of the 50's. I put up some nice wallpaper in my fallout shelter this past weekend.
48
Does it matter what they wear if they get the job done? Seems to me that casual dress would be appropriate at certain times.
50
The mentions I've seen in the media of the 'no jacket' thing were complimentary to Obama and his administration, I thought. As in, they are too busy fixing the country to worry about stupid formalities and posturing.
For instance, this quote from the New York Times article, White House Unbuttons Formal Dress Code, makes Bush look like a self-important prick:
"Workers from the Bush White House are shocked. 'I’ll never forget going to work on a Saturday morning, getting called down to the Oval Office because there was something he was mad about,” said Dan Bartlett, who was counselor to Mr. Bush. “I had on khakis and a buttoned-down shirt, and I had to stand by the door and get chewed out for about 15 minutes. He wouldn’t even let me cross the threshold.' "
While the rest of the article, portrays Obama as "a man who 'seems easy going, not so full of himself.' "
For instance, this quote from the New York Times article, White House Unbuttons Formal Dress Code, makes Bush look like a self-important prick:
"Workers from the Bush White House are shocked. 'I’ll never forget going to work on a Saturday morning, getting called down to the Oval Office because there was something he was mad about,” said Dan Bartlett, who was counselor to Mr. Bush. “I had on khakis and a buttoned-down shirt, and I had to stand by the door and get chewed out for about 15 minutes. He wouldn’t even let me cross the threshold.' "
While the rest of the article, portrays Obama as "a man who 'seems easy going, not so full of himself.' "
51
Shame on you, Dan, for making it sound like Peter Sagal was supporting the idiot Andy Card. That's not what he did. Unfair. Reviewing the week's news is a staple of WWDTM -- not an indicator that the host support the idiocy spewed by Card and his ilk.
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