Slog
News & ArtsMonday, February 2, 2009
Hetero Every Child Deserves a Mother and a Father
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 3:03 PM
Ohio:
The Caesarscreek Twp. man who used a shock collar and water torture to discipline three of his four children was sentenced to 16 years in prison by Greene County Common Pleas Court Judge J. Timothy Campbell Monday. David O. Liskany, 39, of Hussey Road, was sentenced to six years each for two counts of second-degree felonious assault and to four years for one count of third-degree attempted felonious assault.“The only thing you didn’t do was wrap their faces in cheesecloth. They basically were waterboarded,” Campbell said before handing down his sentence, which was far harsher than the 4 years in prison recommended by state probation authorities.
According to Campbell, Liskany abused three of his four children—who were 13, 11 and four at the time of the abuse—by using a dog’s shock collar on them, holding them underwater, subjecting them to cold showers and spraying water up their noses.... Liskany’s ex-wife Wendy Liskany addressed the court on his behalf before sentencing. “My children did not wish for David to be prosecuted,” said Wendy Liskany. “I don’t feel that incarcerating him will help.” ... On his own behalf, Liskany told Campbell, “I just want the opportunity to try and be a father. That’s what I was trying to do, be a loving father.”
2
Right, in "trying to be a loving" girlfriend/sister/daughter, etc., I often WATERBOARD PEOPLE.
WHAT!?
WHAT!?
4
Well, maybe in prison he can be on the receiving end (so to speak) of the kind of "love" he deserves.
9
Dan, I appreciate what you are trying to do with these stories, but showing that heteros can be awful parents does nothing to prove that homos are good parents.
It's like saying, "apples are delicious because oranges taste bad".
It's like saying, "apples are delicious because oranges taste bad".
10
@6, sometimes I wonder if I'd be less fucked up if I was raised by two gay dads rather than my awesome dad and absolutely batshit mother.
12
Why do people constantly point out the supposed flawed logic of these posts, especially when the same response is touted in every single one of them?
It is not like saying "apples are delicious because oranges taste bad". It is more like saying "Why do people think apples are dangerous enough to be illegal, when several people die from orange poisoning each month?"
It's not meant to hold up in court, people. It might be an ineffective argument, but if you think a perfectly logical argument is all that we need to convince the idiots that they're idiots, then you might want to brush up on history.
It is not like saying "apples are delicious because oranges taste bad". It is more like saying "Why do people think apples are dangerous enough to be illegal, when several people die from orange poisoning each month?"
It's not meant to hold up in court, people. It might be an ineffective argument, but if you think a perfectly logical argument is all that we need to convince the idiots that they're idiots, then you might want to brush up on history.
13
@12 - Maybe some "good apple" stories would be more effective than "bad orange" stories in "legalizing apples".
How about some testimonials from the children of gay parents? You know, something positive and directly related to your argument?
How about some testimonials from the children of gay parents? You know, something positive and directly related to your argument?
14
12
Hey, the Nazis tortured and killed MILLIONS! Could we do a series about them? Oh wait, the top Nazis were homosexuals.
Hey, the Nazis tortured and killed MILLIONS! Could we do a series about them? Oh wait, the top Nazis were homosexuals.
17
@ 10,
Wouldn't that be your awesome dad and his absolutely fabulous boyfriend?
(Yes, I realize he is probably straight since he married your bat-shit mother.)
Wouldn't that be your awesome dad and his absolutely fabulous boyfriend?
(Yes, I realize he is probably straight since he married your bat-shit mother.)
18
Summer Phelps, 4 years old - burned with cigarettes, shocked with a dog collar, denied food, hair pulled out, forced to wash urine-soaked clothing for hours in a bathtub. Died Spokane, WA, 3-10-07. Death by torture. Dad Jonathan Lytle sentenced to 75 years in prison. Stepmom Adriana Lytle sentenced to 62 1/2 years. "Loving parents".
19
You people really don't fucking get it!
The point is that the fundie wingnuts have been telling us for years that ONLY the hetero/mom-dad/"traditional" family structure is sufficient and healthy for children. NO OTHER FAMILY STRUCTURE IS GOOD FOR KIDS.
Hold this family up to 2 loving gay dads with well-adjusted, happy, healthy children, and the fundie argument falls apart.
In your vernacular - Your preacher says only apples are good for your kids and he'd rather your kids ate rotten, stinking, maggot-infested, poisonous apples and eat a sweet, delicious, beautiful orange.
Dan's just asking you to compare the two.
The point is that the fundie wingnuts have been telling us for years that ONLY the hetero/mom-dad/"traditional" family structure is sufficient and healthy for children. NO OTHER FAMILY STRUCTURE IS GOOD FOR KIDS.
Hold this family up to 2 loving gay dads with well-adjusted, happy, healthy children, and the fundie argument falls apart.
In your vernacular - Your preacher says only apples are good for your kids and he'd rather your kids ate rotten, stinking, maggot-infested, poisonous apples and eat a sweet, delicious, beautiful orange.
Dan's just asking you to compare the two.
20
Oops - meant "In your vernacular - Your preacher says only apples are good for your kids and he'd rather your kids ate rotten, stinking, maggot-infested, poisonous apples THAN eat a sweet, delicious, beautiful orange."
21
@7,8 etc,
I know you're trying to be funny, but rape is not a joke. Read some of the portraits of courage @ http://www.justdetention.org/ and see if you still find your don't-drop-the-soap humour witty.
I know you're trying to be funny, but rape is not a joke. Read some of the portraits of courage @ http://www.justdetention.org/ and see if you still find your don't-drop-the-soap humour witty.
22
"Hold this family up to 2 loving gay dads with well-adjusted, happy, healthy children, and the fundie argument falls apart."
So why doesn't Dan ever do that?
Everyone knows there are dysfunctional hetero parents.
Highlighting it daily comes across as gloating and taking delight in the failings and suffering of others.
Why isn't there a "Gays are great parents" series?
In Dan's world there are only rotten apples and no oranges.
and the comparison in 19 20 is not true-
No one advocates children staying with abusive parents, the preacher would advocate that the apples all "be" ripe and if they were not then another ripe apple be found.
So why doesn't Dan ever do that?
Everyone knows there are dysfunctional hetero parents.
Highlighting it daily comes across as gloating and taking delight in the failings and suffering of others.
Why isn't there a "Gays are great parents" series?
In Dan's world there are only rotten apples and no oranges.
and the comparison in 19 20 is not true-
No one advocates children staying with abusive parents, the preacher would advocate that the apples all "be" ripe and if they were not then another ripe apple be found.
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@22 - acutally, the fundies would prefer that children get a different apple of any kind, or no apple at all. Any apple is really ok. A different apple every month is ok. Just don't give them a fucking orange!! That's the whole problem. These "good Christians" (there's a classic oxymoron) would rather kids suffer terribly than ever accept gay parents.
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23
I think you are being a little harsh.
In my experience these people ernestly want good homes for the children but don't feel homosexuals will provide that. They are aware of and sickened by and work to eliminate the kind of abuse Dan features.
The helpful step would be to educate them to the positive qualities of Gay parents.
Wouldn't a "Gays are great parents" series be a positive step?
I think you are being a little harsh.
In my experience these people ernestly want good homes for the children but don't feel homosexuals will provide that. They are aware of and sickened by and work to eliminate the kind of abuse Dan features.
The helpful step would be to educate them to the positive qualities of Gay parents.
Wouldn't a "Gays are great parents" series be a positive step?
25
There is a story about the sun and wind making a bet on which one of them can make a guy take his coat off.
The wind goes first; he blows and blows but the guy just pulls his coat tighter around himself. Finally the exausted wind concedes the sun his turn.
The sun beams warm and bright on the man. Shortly the man becomes hot and removes his coat.
This series is like a blustery wind that will only inspire others to hunker down and redouble their resistance.
Showing that Gays can be good parents would be bright illuminating warmth that would melt opposition.
It may seem satisfying to crush your enemies into the dust. (although you may get crushed yourself if you are not wise in your choise of enemies)
A better course, however, is to convert your enemies and make them allies.
All that I'm sayin
is give peace a chance.
The wind goes first; he blows and blows but the guy just pulls his coat tighter around himself. Finally the exausted wind concedes the sun his turn.
The sun beams warm and bright on the man. Shortly the man becomes hot and removes his coat.
This series is like a blustery wind that will only inspire others to hunker down and redouble their resistance.
Showing that Gays can be good parents would be bright illuminating warmth that would melt opposition.
It may seem satisfying to crush your enemies into the dust. (although you may get crushed yourself if you are not wise in your choise of enemies)
A better course, however, is to convert your enemies and make them allies.
All that I'm sayin
is give peace a chance.
26
ECDaMaaF stories are consistently the least interesting things on SLOG. Arguing *ANYTHING* by anecdote is boring and fails High School Journalism 101. But hey, if it makes you feel a warm fuzzy after being confronted by fundie breeders, follow your bliss.
27
@6 - I don't think that's the reaction Dan is going for, after all, his parents were breeders, and he seems to have nothing but nice things to say about them. By saying this, you're doing the same thing that those who say gay people shouldn't be allowed to adopt.
You can't rule out an entire race or culture or sexual orientation as parents based on the actions of the few. All prospective parents must be looked at as individuals, and not held accountable for the actions of others.
This guy is a freak, and was probably abused by his father in a similar way. Too bad the state didn't come along and remove him from his home and place him with a nice gay couple.
You can't rule out an entire race or culture or sexual orientation as parents based on the actions of the few. All prospective parents must be looked at as individuals, and not held accountable for the actions of others.
This guy is a freak, and was probably abused by his father in a similar way. Too bad the state didn't come along and remove him from his home and place him with a nice gay couple.
28
My question is, where was the mother in all this? Did she permit this abuse to go on? Then lock her up as well.
29
The people that believe that children raised by a same sex couple will teach their child/ren to be gay is ridiculous. If only same sex couples raise gay children please explain to me why so many gays are raised by heteros. I myself am a "breeder" with 3 children and I would prefer my kids to be around my gay friends than my straight ones. My gay friends are more respectful and loving than my straight friends. I have never had a gay man stab me in the back. I will gladly go to bat for any of my gay friends if they wanted to be a parent. Hell if it came down to it I would proudly marry a gay man just to help him adopt a child and give him and his real life partner custody of the child they so badly deserve. So all the people that are so strong about apples and dislike oranges you can choke on the apples. I love my friends the ORANGES and love my apples too. If 2009 has proven anything it is that this country has become more open minded. I am for loving happy families don't care if it is dad/dad, mom/mom or mom/dad as long as the FAMILY is HAPPY and SAFE!!!!!
30
You make your comments without ever considering that this individual may have gotten screwed by our wonderful legal system. I happen to know firsthand that this man is honest, forthright and one of the most giving individuals you could ever meet. It's a shame what children's services and "therapists" do to these innocent kids. Don't make judgements against people without knowing all the facts because someday you may spend 16 years in prison for something you didn't do!
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