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News & ArtsFriday, January 30, 2009
City Who's the Fairest City of Them All
Posted by Bethany Jean Clement on Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 4:10 PM
My friend who's visiting from San Francisco says she's seen more black people here in Seattle in two days than she does in a week there. She also says someone she knows in S.F. (a white person) rejected the idea of moving to Portland because "It's too white."
Per the 2000 census:
Seattle:
9.9 percent black
15 percent Asian
5.3 percent Hispanic/Latino
73.4 percent white
San Francisco:
7.8 percent black
30.8 percent Asian
14.1 percent Hispanic/Latino
49.7 percent white
Portland, OR:
6.6 percent black
6.3 percent Asian
6.8 percent Hispanic/Latino
77.9 percent white
1
REALLY?!?
Seattle seems whiter than that...are they sure that the Black Irish and Black Norwegians weren't checking the yes, I'm black box on the survey?
Seattle seems whiter than that...are they sure that the Black Irish and Black Norwegians weren't checking the yes, I'm black box on the survey?
2
Thats because the person from S.F. obviously doesn't go to, or live near Hunters Point nor the tenderloin. And obviously if they were merely visiting Seattle, they would presumably come across the vast amount of black youth that hang around the downtown area during the afternoon.
You should reconsider your friendship.
You should reconsider your friendship.
3
The infuriating thing about San Francisco from this perspective is that the wider bay area has a huge middle-class-and-above black population: in Oakland. But the entire transit system here -- roads, busses, trains and ferries -- seems to be designed to keep the two cities as separate as possible: basically the only way to get from SF to Oakland or vice versa after midnight is to drive across the Bay Bridge, for which you will pay $4 (in addition to the insane hassle of parking) and will encounter half-hour delays at the toll plazas even in the wee hours of the morning.
4
Anything later than the 2000 census? I bet Seattle is less white 9 years later due to different birth rates for different groups.
In my experience, there are two Seattles. One that is for kids growing up here and going to public schools (it's not uncommon to go to "minority-majority" pubic school in this city). That Seattle isn't especially white. The second Seattle is for adults that moved here for the outdoor sports/music and work in professional jobs/the service industry. The second Seattle is much whiter and lives mostly in the North End.
Also, I'm guessing that if you included White Center, North of 125th on Aurora and Skyway, Seattle would have way more Latinos that Portland.
In my experience, there are two Seattles. One that is for kids growing up here and going to public schools (it's not uncommon to go to "minority-majority" pubic school in this city). That Seattle isn't especially white. The second Seattle is for adults that moved here for the outdoor sports/music and work in professional jobs/the service industry. The second Seattle is much whiter and lives mostly in the North End.
Also, I'm guessing that if you included White Center, North of 125th on Aurora and Skyway, Seattle would have way more Latinos that Portland.
5
Lived in Seattle and live in SF now. My feelings match the numbers, SF is more racially diverse, Seattle and Portland are very white. Both SF and Seattle are segregated. As a black person who values diversity, SF is the best of the 3. The East Bay (oakland and berkeley) are close if i need to be around more black people,
6
Doctor, it's not the "roads, busses, trains and ferries that seem designed to keep the two cities as separate as possible". It's called
San Francisco Bay, all those aforementioned things bridge that gap (pun intended).
San Francisco Bay, all those aforementioned things bridge that gap (pun intended).
9
BJC, good one you posted here. Total populations of each city? Well, who really cares, right? Just let your fingers do the typing. Your pal must live in an isolated part of SF.
10
Seattle? Try Kent East Hill !
We're home of all continents!
FOURTEEN PERCENT B-L-A-C-K
Ukranian
Vietnamese
Mexican
Somalian
Yeah, and we have white folk too...
We're home of all continents!
FOURTEEN PERCENT B-L-A-C-K
Ukranian
Vietnamese
Mexican
Somalian
Yeah, and we have white folk too...
12
2006 numbers for SF:
White persons not Hispanic = 44.6%
Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin = 14.1%
Asian persons = 32.1%
Black persons = 7.2%
And an interesting piece of data, especially for those that might equate white with a lack of diversity:
Foreign born persons = 36.8%
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/…
The other major different is, in contrast to cities in the NW's metro areas, the entire Bay Area boasts an incredibly diverse population (of about 7 million).
Seattle and Portland are both great cities though, and a white person who complains a city is "too white" is just annoying.
White persons not Hispanic = 44.6%
Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin = 14.1%
Asian persons = 32.1%
Black persons = 7.2%
And an interesting piece of data, especially for those that might equate white with a lack of diversity:
Foreign born persons = 36.8%
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/…
The other major different is, in contrast to cities in the NW's metro areas, the entire Bay Area boasts an incredibly diverse population (of about 7 million).
Seattle and Portland are both great cities though, and a white person who complains a city is "too white" is just annoying.
13
Nurse@6: No.
The bay is, obviously, a geological fact. But the design of the means of crossing it is no such thing. Consider the available methods:
Bus: MUNI (the San Francisco bus/trolley system) and ACTransit (the Oakland/Berkeley bus system) are separate systems, with incompatible fare cards and unmeshed schedules. MUNI has no cross-bay busses. ACTransit runs a handful of cross-bay routes; it does not run all night.
Subway: BART stops running around midnight.
Ferries: there are no all-night ferry services.
Cars: see above.
None of these things are writ in stone: they are merely the result of a series of short-sighted decisions made by various un-coordinated transit agencies. Indeed, the fact that there are over 20 different independent transit agencies in the bay area is one of the primary problems. There's no technical reason why BART could not run overnight, or why MUNI and ACTrans couldn't use the same farecards, or any number of other ways that SF and Oakland could be made easier to traverse. It's just that politicians here would rather pour the money into other projects.
The bay is, obviously, a geological fact. But the design of the means of crossing it is no such thing. Consider the available methods:
Bus: MUNI (the San Francisco bus/trolley system) and ACTransit (the Oakland/Berkeley bus system) are separate systems, with incompatible fare cards and unmeshed schedules. MUNI has no cross-bay busses. ACTransit runs a handful of cross-bay routes; it does not run all night.
Subway: BART stops running around midnight.
Ferries: there are no all-night ferry services.
Cars: see above.
None of these things are writ in stone: they are merely the result of a series of short-sighted decisions made by various un-coordinated transit agencies. Indeed, the fact that there are over 20 different independent transit agencies in the bay area is one of the primary problems. There's no technical reason why BART could not run overnight, or why MUNI and ACTrans couldn't use the same farecards, or any number of other ways that SF and Oakland could be made easier to traverse. It's just that politicians here would rather pour the money into other projects.
14
She was probably at the Gucci party last night.
All the beautiful people are into multi-ethnic parties, natch.
All the beautiful people are into multi-ethnic parties, natch.
15
There used to be a time when the Central District was the most black neighborhood on the west coast, but obviously that's not true any longer.
16
San Francisco is way more diverse than Seattle or Portland. Anyone who disagrees should walk down Market street or ride the Muni. You will not only see all sorts of people you will hear all sorts of languages. It's not exactly NY, but its not the five flavors-of-white-with-the- little-sprinkling-of-ethnic you get in the NW. And this isn't just in the street. The firm I worked for in Seattle had zero black attorneys, zero asian attorneys, zero hispanic/latino attorneys, maybe one lesbian. The firm I work for in San Francisco is a Benetton ad by comparison.
17
@8: So they do. I got those numbers from here, which is all official. The 5.3 percent Hispanic/Latino comes from the top of the second column, where it also says "Not Hispanic or Latino: 94.7." Other numbers come from the bottom of the first column. I'm no numerologist—I can't make heads or tails of it. Anyone?
18
Seattle is ethnically diverse, but culturally very, very white. Remember Norm Rice? Seattle's first "black" mayor?
19
Seattle and Portland engaging in a contest about who is blacker seems pretty funny, if you have ever been to NY LA Chi Atlanta Detroit Cleveland Baltimore New Orleans Miami Dallas Houston Cincin DC or Philly.
Seattle and Portland don't have any Latino population to speak of, compared to Miami, SD LA Sacramento El Paso Denver Phoenix etc.
What's most striking about Seattle and Portland in terms of diversity are two things.
First, the utter lack of diversity in Seattle and Portland, compared to toher big cities in the USA.
Second, that on the scale of "how proud we are about our diversity"/actual diversity, Seattle and Portland are waaaaay ahead of everyone else, nationwide.
Mazeltov.
Seattle and Portland don't have any Latino population to speak of, compared to Miami, SD LA Sacramento El Paso Denver Phoenix etc.
What's most striking about Seattle and Portland in terms of diversity are two things.
First, the utter lack of diversity in Seattle and Portland, compared to toher big cities in the USA.
Second, that on the scale of "how proud we are about our diversity"/actual diversity, Seattle and Portland are waaaaay ahead of everyone else, nationwide.
Mazeltov.
20
Look, when you're from out of town, you go to neighborhoods that people from in town don't go to.
Hence, you get to see how diverse we are.
Not how some of us never leave their "safe" places.
At some levels we're really diverse - at other levels we still have that whole cultural neighborhood invisible line divide.
Hence, you get to see how diverse we are.
Not how some of us never leave their "safe" places.
At some levels we're really diverse - at other levels we still have that whole cultural neighborhood invisible line divide.
21
@19,
The fact that so many people, media, etc. champion the whole "We're proud of our diversity here in the Northwest" makes it seem really fucking phony when you look at the numbers. It's almost like some form of compensation to hide how non diverse the area truly is.
P.S. I grew up in the Bay Area and I was shocked by how many white people live in Seattle.
The fact that so many people, media, etc. champion the whole "We're proud of our diversity here in the Northwest" makes it seem really fucking phony when you look at the numbers. It's almost like some form of compensation to hide how non diverse the area truly is.
P.S. I grew up in the Bay Area and I was shocked by how many white people live in Seattle.
23
Seattle and Portland are actually very narrow 'white bread' places despite their pretensions to racial and cultural diversity.
24
@16, I'm glad I can walk down the street in Seattle and not hear a multitude of languages. It'd be like Babel, give me a headache.
26
Diversity is more than skin color or ethnicity. I would say Seattle has more people who move among cultural groups than most cities I've been in but fewer "visible" minorities than SF or LA. The only city that has Seattle beat for mobility between groups is Vancouver, BC. People complaining about the lack of diversity are just lazy and/or prejudiced - I know, I used to be one!
But Portland is the WASPiest city on the West Coast, no doubt about it.
But Portland is the WASPiest city on the West Coast, no doubt about it.
32
@8 and 17,
The source data include people of mixed race. So, for example, any Latinos who are partly, or mostly, of African descent would be counted twice. 4.5 percent of Seattlites are of two or more races.
The source data include people of mixed race. So, for example, any Latinos who are partly, or mostly, of African descent would be counted twice. 4.5 percent of Seattlites are of two or more races.
33
According to Wiki the racial makeup of the city in 2004 is 67.1% white, 16.6% Asian, 10.0% African American, 1.0% Native American, 0.9% Pacific Islander, 6.3% of the population is Hispanic or Latino of any race, 2.3% from other races, and 3.4% that are two or more races.
36
What is wrong with a city being white? I'm all for diversity but its not like Portland or Seattle are actively trying to keep minorities out. It's just the reality of the country and how the demographics are developed. Now if either city was going out of its way to make sure that only whites lived there I would have a problem. Until then all this bitching sounds like ignorant liberal bullshit.
37
If you love divershitty and think that Seattle and Portland are "too white", then I suggest you move somewhere like Detroit, Washington DC, Gary Indiana, New Orleans, Orlando, Oakland, Cleveland, etc. etc... Perhaps living in those diverse paradises will assuage your politically-correct wimpy white liberal guilt, if you don't get killed and raped first.
What? What's that? Crime is too high in those cities? Why oh why could that possibly be? Seattle-style white liberals LOVE the "thought" of "people of color" because they think that "people of color" are cooler than they are, but at the same time most Seattle-style white liberals will never ever move into a majority-black neighborhood or city. I wonder why?
According to the FBI and the US Department of Justice, black teen and adult males (less than 3% of the USA) commit over 52% of all murders and over 34% of all rapes in our country. Also, at least 93% of the approximately 8,000 blacks murdered in the USA in 2005 were murdered by other blacks. Then consider that black men raped or sexually assaulted at least 37,460 (thirty-seven thousand, four-hundred and sixty) white women that year alone, while in that same year white men raped between zero and ten black women - but that didn't stop the media from bombarding us for months with the story of a non-rape of a black woman by white men, the Duke Lacrosse fraud.
"Diversity" is just NewSpeak for "less whites". Look around the country at any city that has more than 12% blacks in it (all blacks in the USA make up 12% of the population) and/or is run by mostly black "city government". Look at any country around the world that has a black majority and a black government. What do those places have in common? They are all shitholes of incompetence and horrific violence of the most savage kind.
Celebrate Divershitty indeed.
More...
What? What's that? Crime is too high in those cities? Why oh why could that possibly be? Seattle-style white liberals LOVE the "thought" of "people of color" because they think that "people of color" are cooler than they are, but at the same time most Seattle-style white liberals will never ever move into a majority-black neighborhood or city. I wonder why?
According to the FBI and the US Department of Justice, black teen and adult males (less than 3% of the USA) commit over 52% of all murders and over 34% of all rapes in our country. Also, at least 93% of the approximately 8,000 blacks murdered in the USA in 2005 were murdered by other blacks. Then consider that black men raped or sexually assaulted at least 37,460 (thirty-seven thousand, four-hundred and sixty) white women that year alone, while in that same year white men raped between zero and ten black women - but that didn't stop the media from bombarding us for months with the story of a non-rape of a black woman by white men, the Duke Lacrosse fraud.
"Diversity" is just NewSpeak for "less whites". Look around the country at any city that has more than 12% blacks in it (all blacks in the USA make up 12% of the population) and/or is run by mostly black "city government". Look at any country around the world that has a black majority and a black government. What do those places have in common? They are all shitholes of incompetence and horrific violence of the most savage kind.
Celebrate Divershitty indeed.
38
Reading the comments section, all I'm imagining is a bunch of white people writing to other white people about how there are too many white people everywhere.
I feel like these numbers mean little in terms of actual "diversity." How significant is any population of minority when 90% of that population lives in one particular neighborhood in the city and rarely leaves it?
And the notion that you don't hear languages other than English EVERYWHERE in Seattle is ridiculous. I hear at least 10 different languages every day.
I feel like these numbers mean little in terms of actual "diversity." How significant is any population of minority when 90% of that population lives in one particular neighborhood in the city and rarely leaves it?
And the notion that you don't hear languages other than English EVERYWHERE in Seattle is ridiculous. I hear at least 10 different languages every day.
39
35
Seattle liberals are OK with the idea of Negroes as long as they don't actually have to live with them.
Seattle liberals are OK with the idea of Negroes as long as they don't actually have to live with them.
41
DC may be considered one of the most diverse cities but it also the most horribly segregated city you will ever go to. The class and economic lines are drawn entirely based on color. It's very sad but I guess a lot of the people commenting here would feel a lot better about themselves because at least there would be fewer white people. Never mind the intense institutional discrimination and poverty that they would be surrounded by.
42
born and raised in oakland. love that goddamn city. lived in the nw (vancouver, not seattle) for four years and went batshit crazy at the lack of cultural, racial, and whatever else kinds of diversity. can't speak for seattle but i loved getting to move back to the bay. it's not just a liberal white guilt thing, seriously. it's music and food and crazy interactions with different kinds of people on the street every day, taco trucks and and parades from countries you've never even heard of and old guys playing blues on the corner. I visited seattle a few times (yep, just the downtown/pikes area) and found it surprisingly diverse compared to vancouver or portland, but i'll still take the east bay any day.
43
san francisco is hella segregated. your friend must have a lot of money if she lives in a white neighborhood in the city and can afford a car to keep from interacting with non-whites.
or she lives in marin, in which case, god help her.
or she lives in marin, in which case, god help her.
44
YOU WANT TO SEE A WHITE CITY? TRY BRATTLEBORO,VT.YES THIS IS A SMALL POPULATION OF 12000 BUT WITH THE NON WHITE POPULATION AT AROUND 100 PERSONS
I'D SAY WE ARE THE WHITEST TOWN WHO THINKS THAT WE ARE THE MOST LIBERAL IN THE COUNTRY SO LONG AS IT'S NOT IN OUR BACKYARD !!
"LOCAL LIBERAL WHITE GUY'
I'D SAY WE ARE THE WHITEST TOWN WHO THINKS THAT WE ARE THE MOST LIBERAL IN THE COUNTRY SO LONG AS IT'S NOT IN OUR BACKYARD !!
"LOCAL LIBERAL WHITE GUY'
46
@8 17 32 skiddoo, "Hispanic" people can be white or black or Asian, it is an ethnicity, not a race. Compare Edgar Martinez to Adrian Beltre, say.
47
I can't believe this is how people spend their time. I can't believe how many omniscient people there are who spend their time this way. I'm thoroughly impressed with the assumptions about my lifestyle, income, party habits, and method of getting around town. With love, BJC's SF friend who made the casual comment while visiting Seattle (for the, oh, thirtieth time).
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