Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, January 28, 2009
City SDOT Plans "Bike Corrals"
Posted by Erica C. Barnett on Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:55 AM
Updated to include photo, courtesy of SDOT.
The Seattle Department of Transportation is creating three new on-street bike parking facilities—two on Capitol Hill and one near Green Lake. What's unique about the spaces, which will consist of bike racks surrounded by an enclosed curb, is that each will require the elimination of between one and two spots of parking for cars. The spaces, known as "bike corrals," will accommodate about eight bikes apiece; according to SDOT, the agency plans to roll out more this year, with the goal of having at least one per neighborhood. Portland launched a similar program in 2006.
1
Yay, even living on Capitol Hill there are times when they'd come in handy, like when I've ridden somewhere with a few friends and we want to stop and eat back up here. Let's hope that they get used and that we see more of them in places like Ballard, Fremont, Columbia City, Georgetown and the U District.
2
I'm far more worried with added bike racks to bus lines, quite frankly. You can make a bike rack in about 10 minutes by buying two industrial strength rubber-coated hooks and screwing them into a load bearing 2x4 on a wall, actually - did that for my brother back when we were both in college. Not that hard.
6
Corral? Really, they are calling them corrals? Is that supposed to be some kind of joke about Capitol Hill? Because SDOT can't stop snickering at the gays? Because SDOT is like, all fourteen year old boys. Har de har har, SDOT. S'pose you're going to put those "cowboy up" stickers all over too, in case your "corrals" don't scream gaylord mcgayperson loud enough. Giddy up!
8
Want more bike racks - add em to the walls.
Want more people to use bikes - add bike racks to the bus itself, so they don't wait 45 minutes to cross 520.
Want to obfuscate and distract from the real bottleneck? Talk about how many bike racks you're building in parking spaces.
Want more people to use bikes - add bike racks to the bus itself, so they don't wait 45 minutes to cross 520.
Want to obfuscate and distract from the real bottleneck? Talk about how many bike racks you're building in parking spaces.
9
What a completely dumbfucking stupid idea.
There already isn't enough places to park downtown for those of us who have to occasionally drive in to Seattle.
I'm sure this fucking idea sounds all utopia like and shit, but this fucking liberal urbanism bicycle fetish has gotten out of control!
Put the damn racks strategically positioned areas that make sense up on the sidewalks, and in front of parking lot bumpers for cars. But using up that amount of valuable space is FUCKING PATHETIC!
Teh bicycle cabal in this town has gotten out of control!
The only way I would accept this kind of hijacking of a vehicle parking spot, is if they charged every single bicycle to park there. But we know that will never happen.
Un.Fucking.Believalbe.
Pathetic really...
I'm thinking that I will organize a new sport of using trashed up older vehicles to randomly periodically back into, over and thru those racks. I'll devise a game to start assigning points based on # of bicycles destroyed, bonus points for launching them airborne upon impact, and even more if you manange to drag one away in your bumper or vehicle undercarriage.
You bicycle fools have no idea how much of a hornet's nest you are stirring up. I've been passive and taken your shit before, but this is going too far.
It's on.
There already isn't enough places to park downtown for those of us who have to occasionally drive in to Seattle.
I'm sure this fucking idea sounds all utopia like and shit, but this fucking liberal urbanism bicycle fetish has gotten out of control!
Put the damn racks strategically positioned areas that make sense up on the sidewalks, and in front of parking lot bumpers for cars. But using up that amount of valuable space is FUCKING PATHETIC!
Teh bicycle cabal in this town has gotten out of control!
The only way I would accept this kind of hijacking of a vehicle parking spot, is if they charged every single bicycle to park there. But we know that will never happen.
Un.Fucking.Believalbe.
Pathetic really...
I'm thinking that I will organize a new sport of using trashed up older vehicles to randomly periodically back into, over and thru those racks. I'll devise a game to start assigning points based on # of bicycles destroyed, bonus points for launching them airborne upon impact, and even more if you manange to drag one away in your bumper or vehicle undercarriage.
You bicycle fools have no idea how much of a hornet's nest you are stirring up. I've been passive and taken your shit before, but this is going too far.
It's on.
11
@9
You seem lost. I think you've mistaken this for the PI Soundoff. You'll find that crowd much more receptive to your troglodytic rantings and ravings about how bikes make you SOOOOOO angry!
You seem lost. I think you've mistaken this for the PI Soundoff. You'll find that crowd much more receptive to your troglodytic rantings and ravings about how bikes make you SOOOOOO angry!
12
@8-Crack pipe, put it down. We're talking about bike racks you can lock a bike to and that can't be destroyed with a prybar in under a minute.
@9- hhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Please run over my parked bike, because your car insurance will buy me a new one. And guess what, any city worth visiting is really hard to park in.
@9- hhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Please run over my parked bike, because your car insurance will buy me a new one. And guess what, any city worth visiting is really hard to park in.
13
@9 My bike lock can do far more monetary damage to your driveable phallus, car fetishist. And with your attitude, high blood pressure's likely to kill you afterwards.
14
Removing on-street parking is dumb. Only getting eight bike spots out of two parking spots is SDOT dumb.
16
If the corrals were sheltered (and possibly secured by padlock in a fenced-in area) I would be much more interested. Using a bike when living not on the ground floor in a Capitol Hill apartment building is a pain; I'd even pay a fee to use it.
17
This works very well with the concept of Daylighting.
You know the little signs that say "no parking within 30 feet" that everyone ignores? Well it turns out it makes it a much safer intersection to fill that space with about anything that lets you see people trying to cross the street. A bike rack in this spot doesn't really take up a parking space, is short enough to see people walking behind, and there's one on most blocks throughout the city.
Oh, and regarding replacing parking spots with bike parking, New York got there first.
You know the little signs that say "no parking within 30 feet" that everyone ignores? Well it turns out it makes it a much safer intersection to fill that space with about anything that lets you see people trying to cross the street. A bike rack in this spot doesn't really take up a parking space, is short enough to see people walking behind, and there's one on most blocks throughout the city.
Oh, and regarding replacing parking spots with bike parking, New York got there first.
18
Has anyone thought about how absurd the logic behind this is? "I would bike downtown but it's too hard to find a place to lock it. I'll drive instead because it's so easy to find parking!" Um, hello?
I applaud the loss of below market rate parking, by the way. The cheap parking the city offers only adds to traffic as people circle the block looking for a spot. So whatever.
My question is, as always: when will bike activists finally admit that people in Seattle don't fucking want to bike? How much do we have to waste on bike infrastructure before we realize the reason people here don't bike has nothing to do with bike lanes and bike racks, or even owning a bike? It's too far, too hilly, too cold, and too wet. And it always will be.
Bike infrastructure is just a canard to let cowardly politicians avoid building a real rapid transit system, and it lets drivers off the hook because they think they've made this big sacrifice.
And what I said about "corrals" being an obvious slight on people of gayness? Fact. Simple fact and I dare you to prove me wrong.
I applaud the loss of below market rate parking, by the way. The cheap parking the city offers only adds to traffic as people circle the block looking for a spot. So whatever.
My question is, as always: when will bike activists finally admit that people in Seattle don't fucking want to bike? How much do we have to waste on bike infrastructure before we realize the reason people here don't bike has nothing to do with bike lanes and bike racks, or even owning a bike? It's too far, too hilly, too cold, and too wet. And it always will be.
Bike infrastructure is just a canard to let cowardly politicians avoid building a real rapid transit system, and it lets drivers off the hook because they think they've made this big sacrifice.
And what I said about "corrals" being an obvious slight on people of gayness? Fact. Simple fact and I dare you to prove me wrong.
20
@19,
Only to the 2% of people who actually use a bike for their work commute. The other 98% of us are right there with Elenchos.
Only to the 2% of people who actually use a bike for their work commute. The other 98% of us are right there with Elenchos.
21
#9 Do you already have a plan for your total family murder/suicide, or has that hornet's nest yet to be stirred, because frankly, you sound a little too tightly wrapped for daily life. Do motorcycle parking spots also drive you into a frothing frenzy, or what?
22
@18 "when will bike activists finally admit that people in Seattle don't fucking want to bike? "
Maybe when you admit that you're only ascribing your own opinions to other people, elenchos. More people DO want to ride, and solvable safety issues are their primary reason for not doing so.
Maybe when you admit that you're only ascribing your own opinions to other people, elenchos. More people DO want to ride, and solvable safety issues are their primary reason for not doing so.
23
There would be plenty of street parking for cars if they upped the price by, say, 50 cents an hour, maybe a buck.
Will, you are a total moron. God, how I wish you would start going to city council meetings so we could see footage of you demanding that the city nail up 2x4s with rubber-coated hooks all over town just like you used to do with your poor brother.
Will, you are a total moron. God, how I wish you would start going to city council meetings so we could see footage of you demanding that the city nail up 2x4s with rubber-coated hooks all over town just like you used to do with your poor brother.
24
I applaid the city for doing this. However when they did it in Portland I have no doubt they actually worked with the bike community and neighborhood to determine the locations of these bike parking areas. In Seattle it's a bunch of planners hunched over a computer simulation that decides where they go, so probably they'll sit vacant or half used because they aren't in the right place for users, then all the car and business people will whine that these bike parking spaces are hurting small businesses and that there's no demand for those bike spaces because no one ever uses them, then the city will take them out after 5 years. Rinse, lather, repeat - it' the (dysfunctional) Seattle process.
25
@22
Safety issues are the reason they don't bike? Is that a fact? How do you know that?
The way I know that they don't want to ride is that they aren't doing it. I know they have bikes, I know there are routes, and I know they have an easier time locking their bike than finding parking. Yet they don't ride. Ergo: they don't want to.
I also know a lot of these people bike 10 days a year and drive the rest, and then vote against rapid transit because they think of themselves as "bike commuters." This whole bike thing is built on delusion.
(Mr. X is slightly incorrect about me: members of my class don't need jobs and so don't need to commute to anywhere unless we feel like it. That doesn't mean I'm incapable of empathizing with working people but I don't want to dishonestly pretend I'm one of them.)
Safety issues are the reason they don't bike? Is that a fact? How do you know that?
The way I know that they don't want to ride is that they aren't doing it. I know they have bikes, I know there are routes, and I know they have an easier time locking their bike than finding parking. Yet they don't ride. Ergo: they don't want to.
I also know a lot of these people bike 10 days a year and drive the rest, and then vote against rapid transit because they think of themselves as "bike commuters." This whole bike thing is built on delusion.
(Mr. X is slightly incorrect about me: members of my class don't need jobs and so don't need to commute to anywhere unless we feel like it. That doesn't mean I'm incapable of empathizing with working people but I don't want to dishonestly pretend I'm one of them.)
26
...I was referring to your (entirely accurate) statement that weather, topography, and distance make regular bicycle usage unattractive to most Seattleites - whether for work or other reasons, you indolent so and so :)
27
Gas will be $4 plus a gallon once again. Residential construction in the city's urban core no longer provides auto parking for all tenants but puts people closer to where they need to go so they don't need to own a car anyway. Bikes will fill the gap for short distance commutes. The winds of change are blowing in the parts of the city these racks are going up in.
I used to use parking meter stands to lock my bike, but those are now gone for the most part. Check out the bike parking scene in Tokyo for an example of where we might possibly be going:
http://gizmodo.com/5046854/tokyos-roboti…
I used to use parking meter stands to lock my bike, but those are now gone for the most part. Check out the bike parking scene in Tokyo for an example of where we might possibly be going:
http://gizmodo.com/5046854/tokyos-roboti…
28
Why??? Why do you guys do this? These are easily verifiable facts, and you act like you're fooling somebody here. You're not. Just tell the truth and we could all get along so much better.
I used to use parking meter stands to lock my bike, but those are now gone for the most part.Gone? Really? They went and removed them all when they put in the electronic parking gizmos? Is that another factual assertion from our bicycle friends?
Why??? Why do you guys do this? These are easily verifiable facts, and you act like you're fooling somebody here. You're not. Just tell the truth and we could all get along so much better.
29
Let's see. Denmark. Happiest country in the world. Snows. Rains. Over a third of trips in Copenhagen are by bike. Bern Switzerland - hilly as heck - 10% of trips by bike. Seattle is 2%? Maybe that's something that ought to change? Ya think?
We're getting poor, fat, angry (see @9 for a helpful guide to the road ahead) with business as usual - getting wealthy, healthy and happy is such a bad idea?
Want to be healthier? Bike. Want to be wealthier? Bike and encourage everyone you know to skip their car-subsidies and bike (it costs you 50 cents/mile when someone else drives their car during commute time in the city). Want to be happier? Bike - bikers are the happiest of all commuters by a large margin.
It's not really complicated. It just requires letting go of the whole right-wing lets-make-America-loserland plan that we've been on for the last twenty years.
We're getting poor, fat, angry (see @9 for a helpful guide to the road ahead) with business as usual - getting wealthy, healthy and happy is such a bad idea?
Want to be healthier? Bike. Want to be wealthier? Bike and encourage everyone you know to skip their car-subsidies and bike (it costs you 50 cents/mile when someone else drives their car during commute time in the city). Want to be happier? Bike - bikers are the happiest of all commuters by a large margin.
It's not really complicated. It just requires letting go of the whole right-wing lets-make-America-loserland plan that we've been on for the last twenty years.
30
@29
I was blown away by those European "number of trips" statistics until I realized it's a comparison of apples and oranges.
A "trip" is not equivalent to a "commute". It's easy to drive to work and back, then hop on your bike to run to the corner store three blocks away. That right there is 3 trips, one third of them by bike, but it's bullshit. So 2% of Satellites who commute can't be compared with your 10% or one third of of all trips in some idealized European bicycle Never Never Land.
Bicyclists: Please cut out the bullshit. If this bullshit worked, wouldn't we all be biking by now?
I was blown away by those European "number of trips" statistics until I realized it's a comparison of apples and oranges.
A "trip" is not equivalent to a "commute". It's easy to drive to work and back, then hop on your bike to run to the corner store three blocks away. That right there is 3 trips, one third of them by bike, but it's bullshit. So 2% of Satellites who commute can't be compared with your 10% or one third of of all trips in some idealized European bicycle Never Never Land.
Bicyclists: Please cut out the bullshit. If this bullshit worked, wouldn't we all be biking by now?
32
Life imitates Art:
Park(ing) Day Greenwood: Bike Park/Speaker's Corner
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Greenwood_…
Photos of that event (by Didi Anstett) here:
http://didia.smugmug.com/gallery/6006081…
John C. Todd, Jr.
Greater Greenwood Bi/Ped Safety Coalition
http://www.bipedsafety.org
Park(ing) Day Greenwood: Bike Park/Speaker's Corner
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Greenwood_…
Photos of that event (by Didi Anstett) here:
http://didia.smugmug.com/gallery/6006081…
John C. Todd, Jr.
Greater Greenwood Bi/Ped Safety Coalition
http://www.bipedsafety.org
33
Elenchos: I see cyclists all the time, in every type of inclement weather. In the dark, in the rain, in the snow and ice. When walking downtown with my friend's four-year-old, we constantly point cyclists out to one another. Yesterday I saw a gray-haired woman biking in shorts. Seattle is full of tough, fun cyclists.
34
@33,
There are certainly some cyclists out under those conditions, and they may well be visible, but they still represent a tiny fragment of the overall population. You could double the current number of cyclists, and that would still be 4-5% of commute trips, tops.
Good on ya if you can pull it off, but most folks can't.
There are certainly some cyclists out under those conditions, and they may well be visible, but they still represent a tiny fragment of the overall population. You could double the current number of cyclists, and that would still be 4-5% of commute trips, tops.
Good on ya if you can pull it off, but most folks can't.
35
@34 Yes, because in N. Europe they clearly have a different kind of human living there.
@30 So that's it. It's those pesky socialists out there making all those extra small trips - gaming the system. Bet that has something to do with why we can't get national healthcare here, too.
@30 So that's it. It's those pesky socialists out there making all those extra small trips - gaming the system. Bet that has something to do with why we can't get national healthcare here, too.
36
This is a bad idea. It's not efficient. Add more bike racks on the sidewalks. I am a bike commuter. Not a 10 day out of the year bike commuter, I mean a real-14 miles-a day-no-car-bike-commuter. This design is just a catalyst for the bicycles vs. cars debate that is so pointless. Put more racks on buses, complete the bicycle master plan trails, and for fucks sake, put the bike racks in a logical location.
37
elenchos,
Why the overwhelming focus on commute trips? According to the 2006 PSRC Household Activity Survey, over half of trips in the region are taken for reasons other than going to work or school. The majority of trips are exactly the kind you described @30-- the kind most suited to bicycling.
By the way, the 2000 census puts the percentage of journey-to-work trips by walk or bike in "Central Seattle" at 15.6%.
Why the overwhelming focus on commute trips? According to the 2006 PSRC Household Activity Survey, over half of trips in the region are taken for reasons other than going to work or school. The majority of trips are exactly the kind you described @30-- the kind most suited to bicycling.
By the way, the 2000 census puts the percentage of journey-to-work trips by walk or bike in "Central Seattle" at 15.6%.
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