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News & ArtsSunday, January 25, 2009
News Tax Cuts, Tax Cuts, Tax Cuts
Posted by Dan Savage on Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 5:09 PM
It's all GOP whining, all the time, on NPR this afternoon. They're upset about Obama's stimulus package. Apparently there aren't enough tax cuts in it. They keep telling me, courtesy of NPR, that if we want to get serious about the economy, and if Obama wants their support, Republican elected officials want to see more tax cuts. Because tax cuts create new jobs and economic growth—remember the massive Bush tax cuts? Remember all the jobs and economic growth they created?
Me neither.
Why does anyone take these douchebags seriously?
2
Some of their criticisms are legit and Obama should live up to his promise to work in a bipartisan manner.
Massive government spending - which is in fact just more government borrowing at a time when our debt is approaching 10% of our economy - is not necessarily the answer.
Let the GOP weed out the worst offending projects. Certainly there are some. DC is still DC - it hasn't changed that much.
Give parties a chance to work together instead of just resorting to name calling.
Obama takes the "douchebags" seriously and that is what gives him 70% approval and that is what will help him save this country.
You, Dan, are the one being a real douche at the moment. Maybe it's time to go rally for mayors who make out with high school boys in city hall bathrooms?
Leave governance to Obama. He's having lunch with the "douchebags" tomorrow and let's hope they find a way to work together!!
Massive government spending - which is in fact just more government borrowing at a time when our debt is approaching 10% of our economy - is not necessarily the answer.
Let the GOP weed out the worst offending projects. Certainly there are some. DC is still DC - it hasn't changed that much.
Give parties a chance to work together instead of just resorting to name calling.
Obama takes the "douchebags" seriously and that is what gives him 70% approval and that is what will help him save this country.
You, Dan, are the one being a real douche at the moment. Maybe it's time to go rally for mayors who make out with high school boys in city hall bathrooms?
Leave governance to Obama. He's having lunch with the "douchebags" tomorrow and let's hope they find a way to work together!!
4
No idea. I was raised by Republicans, some of my closest friends are Rebpublicans. I can't figure out their extreme dislike of taxes, or why they think tax cuts are the answer. I do know that, I know longer want to keep bashing my head up a break wall discussing it. I'm saving my head bashing for civil rights issues.
5
@3, try reading the entire article next time.
"At the meeting, Rep. Eric Cantor of Virginia, the No. 2 House Republican, passed out copies of the Republicans’ five-point stimulus plan. At first blush, Obama said, “Nothing on here looks outlandish or crazy to me,” Obama said, according to a source familiar with the conversation. He seemed particularly receptive to some Republican ideas about increasing benefits to small businesses."
THAT is the same meeting where Obama said "I won"
"At the meeting, Rep. Eric Cantor of Virginia, the No. 2 House Republican, passed out copies of the Republicans’ five-point stimulus plan. At first blush, Obama said, “Nothing on here looks outlandish or crazy to me,” Obama said, according to a source familiar with the conversation. He seemed particularly receptive to some Republican ideas about increasing benefits to small businesses."
THAT is the same meeting where Obama said "I won"
6
the economy needs money flowing again, fast.
two ways to do that:
spend, and since nobody will, make the government spend and spend lots
cut taxes, which has the same effect if that money ends up getting spent not saved
neither approach is sustainable. but Obama is going to pursue a strategy with both.
OBAMA - not the GOP - opened up the stimulus debate with a 300 BILLION tax cut included.
OBAMA - not the GOP - campaigned for two years on the promise of "tax cuts" for working class Americans.
Tax cuts are GOOD, especially if they go to working class and small business, not the wealthy. GOP advocating tax cuts is a reasonable position for them to take.
Instead of the automatic insults why can't we take a cue from Obama and at least TRY to change the tone and work together?
two ways to do that:
spend, and since nobody will, make the government spend and spend lots
cut taxes, which has the same effect if that money ends up getting spent not saved
neither approach is sustainable. but Obama is going to pursue a strategy with both.
OBAMA - not the GOP - opened up the stimulus debate with a 300 BILLION tax cut included.
OBAMA - not the GOP - campaigned for two years on the promise of "tax cuts" for working class Americans.
Tax cuts are GOOD, especially if they go to working class and small business, not the wealthy. GOP advocating tax cuts is a reasonable position for them to take.
Instead of the automatic insults why can't we take a cue from Obama and at least TRY to change the tone and work together?
7
It depends who the tax cuts are for, douchebag.
Obama spent two years campaigning for tax cuts, remember?
Bush's tax cuts were for the wealthy. Nobody is arguing for more of those.
The GOP wants more tax cuts for small business. And Obama is on the record saying that's a good idea.
Let them work it out.
Give Obama a chance.
Is the whole bipartisan thing just a big joke to you? Why is it necessary to call the GOP douchebags five days into a Democratically led White House and Congress??
Obama spent two years campaigning for tax cuts, remember?
Bush's tax cuts were for the wealthy. Nobody is arguing for more of those.
The GOP wants more tax cuts for small business. And Obama is on the record saying that's a good idea.
Let them work it out.
Give Obama a chance.
Is the whole bipartisan thing just a big joke to you? Why is it necessary to call the GOP douchebags five days into a Democratically led White House and Congress??
8
Dan,
Obama campaigned on a promise to cut the taxes of 95% of Americans.
Is he the douchebag we should not take seriously?
Obama campaigned on a promise to cut the taxes of 95% of Americans.
Is he the douchebag we should not take seriously?
9
Hey, Mr. One person posting anonymously as several people,
Republicans are douchebags because they want more tax cuts, when Obama is already giving tax cuts. Obama campaigned on giving tax cuts, and he is now giving tax cuts. Republicans are responding with, "You know what would be great with those tax cuts that you promised and are now delivering upon? More tax cuts that are not going to necessarily build constructively upon your stimulus package!"
Jesus Christ, Dan, does this guy follow you to work yelling stupid bullshit, too?
Republicans are douchebags because they want more tax cuts, when Obama is already giving tax cuts. Obama campaigned on giving tax cuts, and he is now giving tax cuts. Republicans are responding with, "You know what would be great with those tax cuts that you promised and are now delivering upon? More tax cuts that are not going to necessarily build constructively upon your stimulus package!"
Jesus Christ, Dan, does this guy follow you to work yelling stupid bullshit, too?
10
Somehow in the shortest of terms we need to figure how to get working capital to small, micro and tiny businesses. It is unfortunate that our business model has devolved into using other people's money but it has. Lines of credit to keep "healthy" businesses open should be first priority.
12
Jesus Christ, I have had enough of this bullshit, YES, Tampa Kansas!! There is more than one Tampa, ASSHOLIO!! We're in Wikipedia look it up before you spray more crap outta your ass
14
Andrew Mellon gave the U.S. Tax Cuts, Tax Cuts, Tax Cuts along with Republican Deregulation and it gave us the Great Depression. The Republicans and their right wing moron supporters gave us deregulation and Tax Cuts, Tax Cuts, Tax Cuts and they've driven us AGAIN into the ditch. GLOBAL FINANCIAL MELTDOWN!!!! Wake up people... THEY ARE DOING IT AGAIN!!!!!!
15
Republican troll: McCain still wants to make the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans permanent. I seem to recall that idea making no sense during the campaign, either.
And, Boehner is still a major douche. His (temporarily) kinder, gentler tone notwithstanding.
And, Boehner is still a major douche. His (temporarily) kinder, gentler tone notwithstanding.
16
Are you kidding?
I voted for Obama and hated Bush, but there's no doubt that tax cuts are good for an economy.
Are you kidding?
I voted for Obama and hated Bush, but there's no doubt that tax cuts are good for an economy.
17
Wake up people, OBAMA campaigned for tax cuts for 95% of Americans and HIS PROPOSAL FOR THE STIMULUS INCLUDED $300 BILLION IN TAX CUTS BEFORE THE REPUBLICANS EVEN SAW IT!
18
Of course the GOP's "trickle-down"-style tax cuts work. They accomplish exactly what the Republicans want them to do: Make the rich richer.
Gosh, Dan, it's not that hard to figure out why they love them so much.
Gosh, Dan, it's not that hard to figure out why they love them so much.
21
"Bush's tax cuts were for the wealthy. Nobody is arguing for more of those."
Bullshit! McCain was on Fox News this morning demanding that the Bush tax cuts be made permentant.
Bullshit! McCain was on Fox News this morning demanding that the Bush tax cuts be made permentant.
22
My favorite forgotten memory of the Bush era: The vaunted "economic recovery" from the 2000-era tech-bubble-burst (remember that?) was largely due to (waaait for it...) New Home Sales! That's right, the economic recovery supposedly brought about by Bush's tax cuts for the rich was in fact merely the mortgage bubble inflating.
You gotta admire the Republicans' brazenness proposing the same solution to every problem. Inflation? Tax cuts for the wealthy. Deflation? Tax cuts for the wealthy. Terrorism? Tax cuts for the wealthy. Banks going under? Mortgage default by the thousands? Across-the-board credit meltdown? Tax cuts for the wealthy!
I'm not sure which part of "crushing electoral defeat" they don't understand.
You gotta admire the Republicans' brazenness proposing the same solution to every problem. Inflation? Tax cuts for the wealthy. Deflation? Tax cuts for the wealthy. Terrorism? Tax cuts for the wealthy. Banks going under? Mortgage default by the thousands? Across-the-board credit meltdown? Tax cuts for the wealthy!
I'm not sure which part of "crushing electoral defeat" they don't understand.
23
Fuck the Republicans. They lost. If they want to hold up the stimulus - don't let 'em off the hook. Force them to _actually_ filibuster; force them to stand in the Senate Chambers reading a phone book as the fires created by their ignorant policies sweep the country. Let the average American see them extort their "permanent Bush tax cuts" from a country in collapse.
They are fools.
They are fools.
24
Whoa. Even John Galt is criticizing Republicans.
One thing I love about Obama is his willingness to reach out to the other side and, in so doing, giving them just enough rope to hang themselves. This country needs economic stimulus. If the Republicans hold it up over some bullshit, they will look like petty whiners, which is, of course, what they've been all along.
One thing I love about Obama is his willingness to reach out to the other side and, in so doing, giving them just enough rope to hang themselves. This country needs economic stimulus. If the Republicans hold it up over some bullshit, they will look like petty whiners, which is, of course, what they've been all along.
26
One thing I love about Obama is his willingness to reach out to the other side and, in so doing, giving them just enough rope to hang themselves.
He knows what he's doing guys... just watch. Just sit back and watch. You don't have to be angry anymore, remember? This guy's pulling for YOU!
He knows what he's doing guys... just watch. Just sit back and watch. You don't have to be angry anymore, remember? This guy's pulling for YOU!
27
i like the idea of being the bigger person and working with both sides to get the job done...
but i like "Fuck you, I won, We're gonna do things MY WAY NOW!" even better...
but i like "Fuck you, I won, We're gonna do things MY WAY NOW!" even better...
28
Taxes or tax cuts aren't good or bad, it's what they're for and how they're structured.
Taxes to build transportation infrastructure, energy infrastructure, law and order so little kids aren't afraid to go to school, education, health care etc. provide an economic return IN ADDITION to the multiplier coming from the recipients spending the dollars.
Tax cuts that can just go to profit, dividend, loan repayment etc. don't provide that return. And they have a low multiplier.
Tax cuts that are just social transfer payments, though I think they should be included, don't provide that return. They do have a higher multiplier.
So:
1. investments in r and d infra. energy etc.
2. reform of health care and other things, good god we need money how can we afford to spend 16% of GDP on health care instead of the 9% that they have in the social democratic nations?
3. Social transfer payments; food stamps; unemployment; food stamps; bus vouchers, etc.
4. a bit of payroll tax cuts to keep that campaign promise.
5. no other tax cuts. Because they don't grow the economy as much as 1-4 above.
Proof? You want proof?
let's just cut all the taxes down to zero there's your proof. a war of all against all, like in remote Pakistan, or Guatemala under the death squads. Super low tax nations, that's what the GOP wants, brilliant, those are our models.
And Obama: stop giving in. We did win. Now use the power dude.
Taxes to build transportation infrastructure, energy infrastructure, law and order so little kids aren't afraid to go to school, education, health care etc. provide an economic return IN ADDITION to the multiplier coming from the recipients spending the dollars.
Tax cuts that can just go to profit, dividend, loan repayment etc. don't provide that return. And they have a low multiplier.
Tax cuts that are just social transfer payments, though I think they should be included, don't provide that return. They do have a higher multiplier.
So:
1. investments in r and d infra. energy etc.
2. reform of health care and other things, good god we need money how can we afford to spend 16% of GDP on health care instead of the 9% that they have in the social democratic nations?
3. Social transfer payments; food stamps; unemployment; food stamps; bus vouchers, etc.
4. a bit of payroll tax cuts to keep that campaign promise.
5. no other tax cuts. Because they don't grow the economy as much as 1-4 above.
Proof? You want proof?
let's just cut all the taxes down to zero there's your proof. a war of all against all, like in remote Pakistan, or Guatemala under the death squads. Super low tax nations, that's what the GOP wants, brilliant, those are our models.
And Obama: stop giving in. We did win. Now use the power dude.
29
@27
Thankfully Obama is a bit more magnanimous than you.
It's better to be the bigger person. Do we want revenge, or results.
Me say let's have results. Let's work TOGETHER.
Thankfully Obama is a bit more magnanimous than you.
It's better to be the bigger person. Do we want revenge, or results.
Me say let's have results. Let's work TOGETHER.
30
Somebody needs to bitch slap these Republicans and remind then that they lost the last two elections. If they keep acting like spoilers, there won't be any Republicans left.
All Republicans are interested in is filling their pockets and fuck everyone else.
All Republicans are interested in is filling their pockets and fuck everyone else.
32
Not really sure what the difference is between tax cuts for the wealthy and taking TARP and giving it directly to Wall Street robber barons is!
I would direct all TARP money into unemployment resources for hard hit states.
Barista, Union Worker or Wall Street Broker all get the same paycheck then when unemployed. It's called fairness.
I would direct all TARP money into unemployment resources for hard hit states.
Barista, Union Worker or Wall Street Broker all get the same paycheck then when unemployed. It's called fairness.
33
It is funny watching this idiot babble on using multiple screen names and having a fairly moronic circular conversation with himself. This is proof that Obama becoming President has made some republicans schizophrenic.
34
I always wonder, when do Republicans ever think it's not a good idea to cut taxes? Is the concept of taxation ever valid in their world?
35
#33, 34:
Let's face it, Seattle loungers are sucking of the tit of taxpayer money in the form of grants and city "jobs". The Mayor, Governor and Executive all depend on higher and higher taxation rates and dispense their largesse on SLOG posters who in turn spend their lives defending their sinecure.
Let's face it, Seattle loungers are sucking of the tit of taxpayer money in the form of grants and city "jobs". The Mayor, Governor and Executive all depend on higher and higher taxation rates and dispense their largesse on SLOG posters who in turn spend their lives defending their sinecure.
36
My tax refund is less than half of what it was last year. And I only made 15% less this year. As far as I know I'm still in the same po' tax bracket.
37
#10:
I agree wholeheartedly.
I have called upon Congress to transform the SBA from a stodgy agency making loans to dry cleaning businesses to a microfinancing venture capital outlet.
Americans should be able to go to SBA, present a short, 1 page business plan, and get one year of funding for $100K, 1M or even $10M (depending on number of people they need to hire and capital spending).
It should be simple, easy and fast.
We should be funding individual Americans to remake our economy. We should not be propping up 19th and 20th century behemoths and their overpriced executive salaries.
I agree wholeheartedly.
I have called upon Congress to transform the SBA from a stodgy agency making loans to dry cleaning businesses to a microfinancing venture capital outlet.
Americans should be able to go to SBA, present a short, 1 page business plan, and get one year of funding for $100K, 1M or even $10M (depending on number of people they need to hire and capital spending).
It should be simple, easy and fast.
We should be funding individual Americans to remake our economy. We should not be propping up 19th and 20th century behemoths and their overpriced executive salaries.
38
Part of the fun of winning the POTUS Game is watching the other side squirm through another day of not getting what they want. But then that's what turns some people off from politics and keeps them from voting or even registering.
http://www.novofem.com/FAQ/mendouche.asp
"Love Your Douche Like Your Douche Loves You."tm
http://www.novofem.com/FAQ/mendouche.asp
"Love Your Douche Like Your Douche Loves You."tm
41
Tax cuts is how the rich got richer and the working class got poorer. Bush's tax cut of one and a half percent for 98% of us allowed people like me that made 60,000 dollars able to keep $900 but with less taxes payed in the funding for schools and state dropped. States and local taxes went up,then the big CON, the money we kept went to the Big Four Oil co.s I had to work 7 days a week to pay for the $80 a day I spent on gasoline to get to work. Now the rich sets home and don't have the long drives to work. And the ones that made a billion a year got a 1% tax cut so they kept 10 million, and the ones that just a million, made out like bandets,remember, all the loop holes were put in place to save the rich. Look up the graft for the national debt, and you can see who was in office at the time. When a demo was in it was small incline but when the Rep was in, it shoot up like a rocket. In 1967, when I was 18 years old I was making about $5.00 an hr., now I make 4 over 4 times as much, $22.00 an hour,but a new Buick Electra 225 cost $2300.00, now it is $38,000.00. I would say our wages with all the republicans in, did not keep up with the cost of living. Back then I could by a weeks food for 10 dollars, gasoline was 23cents a gallon,you could get 2 hamburgers, fies, coke, and change back from a dollar. A nice house to live in, in a lot of the USA could be bought for as little as $2000.00. Yepper, this country is broke and the republicans broke it. Now they will give Obama a hard time hoping they can keep Bush's tax cuts for the rich and with a little luck get more for the super rich. But Obama can't be bullyed, and in the next mid-term elections WE THE PEOPLE might put them in the unemployment line. This is the first time since Kennedy we have had a person in office that cared about the working class, Clinton did better than most, but I think Obama will do better. Just what my eyes see. THE VIPER
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