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News & ArtsThursday, January 22, 2009
Politics Adams: An Addendum
Posted by Erica C. Barnett on Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:39 PM
I should add, apropos of my post below, that I think lying to the media is reprehensible. If a city council member here lied to the local media, repeatedly, about something similarly sensational in order to get elected, I would have no problem demanding that they resign—and, admit it, Dan, neither would you. The issue isn't sex between consenting adults—it's the fact that he lied over and over and over again, until he couldn't. In short: I do not support Sam Adams, and I will not be attending a rally for him tomorrow or ever.
2
Bullshit.
Lying to the media about public matters is reprehensible.
Lying to the media about your personal life is perfectly fine and expected. If the media asked me where I've put my dick I'd tell them "It's about to go in your fucking mouth."
Lying to the media about public matters is reprehensible.
Lying to the media about your personal life is perfectly fine and expected. If the media asked me where I've put my dick I'd tell them "It's about to go in your fucking mouth."
5
I'm also ok with lying to the media about private matters. If he said "no comment" they would take it as a "yes" and he'd be history.
6
If you asked me about my sex life, I'd tell you to fuck off.
Which you'd print as evidence of my guilt.
I can't blame him for lying about something like this.
Which you'd print as evidence of my guilt.
I can't blame him for lying about something like this.
7
The media can ask some very inappropriate questions.
If I asked you to describe in vivid detail your sex life, every act in which you've ever engaged, would you do it? If it's not appropriate for me to ask, why is it okay for the media to do it?
If I asked you to describe in vivid detail your sex life, every act in which you've ever engaged, would you do it? If it's not appropriate for me to ask, why is it okay for the media to do it?
8
yeah lying to the media is bad, yadda yadda. but what you lie about is also important. and moreover, what's most important is adams' results as mayor. who cares if he boinked an 18 year old? seems no different to me than clinton and lewinsky.
9
As usual in politics, it's not the crime, it's the cover up that ends up causing all the ruckus. Scooter Libby went to prison for lying about what he did, not for what he did.
11
It is OK for leaders in the cult to lie to protect themselves, it is also OK for big dogs in the cult to sexually exploit little dogs in the cult, it is also frowned upon for peons in the cult (that is you, loyal slog readers) to question the actions or opinions of big dogs in the cult. So don't question Dan when he says it is OK for Adams to do whatever and lie about it. Or you could find yourself in trouble. That's how cults work.
12
9, Scooter Libby didn't go to prison, (his sentence was commuted) but he was convicted for lying in and obstructing a federal investigation, not for lying to the media. Get the difference?
14
7
You're just hinting around hoping someone will ask you, aren't you Rob. Go ahead, tell us; you're going to no matter if we ask or not...
You're just hinting around hoping someone will ask you, aren't you Rob. Go ahead, tell us; you're going to no matter if we ask or not...
15
@7: Jesus, Rob, please don't ask ECB about her sex life. Some of us have just eaten lunch and would rather not hear about that.
16
Yes, lying is wrong, but I'd say it is excusable when you are lying about what is nobody's business. I'd say Portland has good reason to have lost some trust in the Mayor, but resignation seems to go overboard.
19
@10, Obama promised he would quit smoking before he ran for president, to his wife, to his kids, to the media. If you're saying he didn't really lie because he did quit and then picked it up again, that's about as ingenuous as saying Clinton didn't really lie because he didn't really have "sexual relations."
Obviously Obama shouldn't quit for his lie, but if you think Adams should resign, you should think Obama should resign too. Unless you just have an issue with the icky gay sex.
Obviously Obama shouldn't quit for his lie, but if you think Adams should resign, you should think Obama should resign too. Unless you just have an issue with the icky gay sex.
20
I seem to recall a certain cloud of mendacity surrounding Senator Hillary Clinton about her "Bosnia Under Fire" story, ECB. Did you ask her to end her campaign for that?
21
I'm with 2, 5, 6, and 7. If journalists can't have the sense to stick to appropriate questions, then they deserve to get lied to. This Ball guy started a whisper campaign against Adams that the media should have ignored. It doesn't matter that it was true. It had nothing to do with being mayor, and there was no sexual harassment angle, so it should have been out of bounds.
23
@16 - "I'd say Portland has good reason to have lost some trust in the Mayor, but resignation seems to go overboard."
I agree completely. The lying should not be dismissed outright, but it's certainly not resignation-worthy.
I agree completely. The lying should not be dismissed outright, but it's certainly not resignation-worthy.
24
Lying to the media about your sex life is ... well, not exactly reprehensible. In fact, it's kind of shut the fuck up already.
25
"Bullshit.
Lying to the media about public matters is reprehensible.
Lying to the media about your personal life is perfectly fine and expected. If the media asked me where I've put my dick I'd tell them "It's about to go in your fucking mouth."
Yep. It's a bigger "deal" with gay due to novelty, but the media is a terrible gossip when it comes to straights too, destroying the country to appeal to the trashiest (subjectively) moralizing assholes.
Lying to the media about public matters is reprehensible.
Lying to the media about your personal life is perfectly fine and expected. If the media asked me where I've put my dick I'd tell them "It's about to go in your fucking mouth."
Yep. It's a bigger "deal" with gay due to novelty, but the media is a terrible gossip when it comes to straights too, destroying the country to appeal to the trashiest (subjectively) moralizing assholes.
26
Since he lied about his personal life - which was none of the media's damn business anyway - I fail to see what the problem is. It's not like he lied about public policy or something relevant to voters. He was even open about his sexual orientation so all the bigot homo-haters could refuse to vote for him!
27
I would lie my pants off if someone asked me about this. It's my business and "no comment" won't cut it. Also, get the fuck over it.
28
Wow, an issue that drives a wedge between Dan and ECB. This is getting interesting.
Adams didn't say "no comment" or "i never slept with a minor, and anything else is none of your business". He explicitly lied to get re-elected. And he did it because he knew his constituants wouldn't like the truth.
Dan might believe Adams' constituants shouldn't be bothered by the truth, but that's a different issue entirely. Even that is a pretty weak argument. If Dan believe that everying even a hairsbreath within this side of the law is perfectly fine and unremarkable, then I presume he won't be complaining anymore about Bush's just-barely-almost-not-technically-torture policies.
Adams didn't say "no comment" or "i never slept with a minor, and anything else is none of your business". He explicitly lied to get re-elected. And he did it because he knew his constituants wouldn't like the truth.
Dan might believe Adams' constituants shouldn't be bothered by the truth, but that's a different issue entirely. Even that is a pretty weak argument. If Dan believe that everying even a hairsbreath within this side of the law is perfectly fine and unremarkable, then I presume he won't be complaining anymore about Bush's just-barely-almost-not-technically-torture policies.
29
Oh please. Everyone has shit in their personal life that other people wouldn't like. Do you want to take a polygraph about whether you got an erection during the donkey show scene in "Bachelor Party"?
How about we talk to all your past sexual partners and see what they have to say?
It's your personal fucking business and nobody has a right to know about it.
How about we talk to all your past sexual partners and see what they have to say?
It's your personal fucking business and nobody has a right to know about it.
31
I personally think he might not have been EXACTLY 18 years old when it all went down. And what kind of porno name is beau breedlove?
32
I notice that generally (There's a few exceptions) media folks don't like revealing the details about their sex lives, yet they are going to fault the public for wanting to protect their privacy as well.
33
@22, "Erica is cute" is a terrible rebuttal to "bestiality is illegal". Talking inane shit about Erica's personal life is ridiculous and juvenile and yes, sexist. It is intended to dismiss her without addressing her position here.
I agree, however, that lying to the media about your sex life is absolutely mandatory. One of the many reasons I will never be elected to anything is because my answer to such questions would be "I get off from shitting in your mouth, fuckface, so open wide. Anything else you'd like to know, motherfucker?"
I agree, however, that lying to the media about your sex life is absolutely mandatory. One of the many reasons I will never be elected to anything is because my answer to such questions would be "I get off from shitting in your mouth, fuckface, so open wide. Anything else you'd like to know, motherfucker?"
34
Look, most people even lie about their sex life on anonymous questionnaires.
Don't you at The Stranger have something else to talk about?
This is getting boring.
Don't you at The Stranger have something else to talk about?
This is getting boring.
35
Openly showing support for a liar does not seem smart. It's one thing to excuse his actions, its another to become an advocate for him. It's especially odd that a member of the media would show such support.
Additionally, this was not a private sexual issue. This was about a violation of the law, specifically, sex with a minor. If the kid was under 18 when he had sex, that is criminal. The public has a right to know, and the media has an obligation to investigate this behavior. He lied and covered up the investigation.
Moreover, If he lied once about having sex with a consenting adult, then it is reasonable to assume that he has extra motivation to lie to avoid criminal prosecution.
Until all the facts are out, one would be wise to avoid showing support. I'd hate risk my reputation based on his word.
Additionally, this was not a private sexual issue. This was about a violation of the law, specifically, sex with a minor. If the kid was under 18 when he had sex, that is criminal. The public has a right to know, and the media has an obligation to investigate this behavior. He lied and covered up the investigation.
Moreover, If he lied once about having sex with a consenting adult, then it is reasonable to assume that he has extra motivation to lie to avoid criminal prosecution.
Until all the facts are out, one would be wise to avoid showing support. I'd hate risk my reputation based on his word.
36
Why is lying to the media about your private life a bad thing?
If all parties involved are of a legal age why does a person have to admit to such things?
Erica in the end you are an absolute priss.
If all parties involved are of a legal age why does a person have to admit to such things?
Erica in the end you are an absolute priss.
37
But we hold people in public office to a higher standard, and we should - we are giving them the job of making decisions for us - the way he handled this whole thing shows really poor judgment.
38
Sam Adams makes a poor poster boy for the broader equal rights movement. Get him off the front page pronto. Focuing attention on him is not strategic if the message is gays are like you, mainstream America, we just want equal rights to have responsible marriages, families, kids, etc.
If the message is we are hedonistic singles who love to screw around, and we like 'em barely legal, and that's our privacy rights and we should have a right to lie to the press about it -- IOW fuck you mainstream America -- well, good luck with that.
If the message is we are hedonistic singles who love to screw around, and we like 'em barely legal, and that's our privacy rights and we should have a right to lie to the press about it -- IOW fuck you mainstream America -- well, good luck with that.
39
He lied repeatedly and in the process tried to smear a potential political adversary. Now that the truth is out it is clear that Adams is a slimeball. Being a slimeball is not reason enough to resign. However, the fact that everyone in the world now has proof that he's a slimeball will greatly impact his ability to effectively lead the City of Portland. As we've seen on the national level, an ineffectual executive isn't worth having around. He should resign.
40
I don't think Dan should be trying so hard to defend Adams and I don't think Erica should be trying so hard to defend Ruiz but I do think Dan is right that Adam's doesn't (necessarily) have to resign although Erica is right that they would be calling for the resignation of a Seattle pol who had similarly woven a wicked, wicked web of lies.
Hug?
Hug?
41
I'll never quite get the idea that because certain information shouldn't need to be revealed to the public, it's absolutely hunky-dory to a) flat-out lie about it, b) insult the people who brought up the topic and c) encourage/insist other people lie about it as well. Seriously, this is supposed to be an appropriate way to behave? Come on.
Personally, I would have found it a little MORE repellent if this were a forty-something guy sleeping with an 18-year-old girl, so I really don't think my hidden homophobia can be at play here.
Personally, I would have found it a little MORE repellent if this were a forty-something guy sleeping with an 18-year-old girl, so I really don't think my hidden homophobia can be at play here.
42
I've been told that the Alaskan Way surface option would make Seattle a paradise on Earth for a couple of years now.
It's refreshing to see the media lied to, for a change.
It's refreshing to see the media lied to, for a change.
43
Well put, 35. It does seem to me that there's more to this story than we know at this point, and, given that, it seems uber-risky to put yourself out there supporting this guy, Dan. Please consider all you'll have at stake if you 'go public' and show up at the Adams rally tomorrow. Remember, you're our national SpokesGay!!
44
What @38 said.
And to those blaming the media? That's right out of The Rush Limbaugh Playbook. Scary.
And to those blaming the media? That's right out of The Rush Limbaugh Playbook. Scary.
49
Sometimes the questions the media asks are reprehensible. Why was this affair an issue in the first place?
I would put lying to the media about your sex life in the same category as squirting spray foam insulation all over a voyeur's face and head and hair when you see one looking in your bedroom window. Yeah...that's probably not the best, most civilized way of handling it. But on the other hand, who cares what a damn voyeur thinks anyway?
I would put lying to the media about your sex life in the same category as squirting spray foam insulation all over a voyeur's face and head and hair when you see one looking in your bedroom window. Yeah...that's probably not the best, most civilized way of handling it. But on the other hand, who cares what a damn voyeur thinks anyway?
50
While I agree it's none of the media's business about Adam's sex life, the whole point was that he may have been sleeping with a minor. He lied about his relationship, albeit supposedly legal, who's to say that he isn't lying about how old the kid really was? The whole situation just looks bad, I don't think he will be fully trusted but then again he's a politician.
53
how many under 18 are there? that is why he better quit and git... criminal stuff looming
you who could believe for a miunute "they waited" - for you, I have a list of good bridges cheap, cheap, cheap ...
Some of you are stupid to the max, age of consent and stat. rape are the real issues
he is toast and will be lucky to stay out of jail
and toast that squawks lies ... All of the good friends of Buea will spill all, and others will show up ... mark this post
you who could believe for a miunute "they waited" - for you, I have a list of good bridges cheap, cheap, cheap ...
Some of you are stupid to the max, age of consent and stat. rape are the real issues
he is toast and will be lucky to stay out of jail
and toast that squawks lies ... All of the good friends of Buea will spill all, and others will show up ... mark this post
55
What is reprehensible is the you, Erica, think you have any right to know about a public official's sex life.
56
@50 FTW -- what everyone's missing is that with one shoe already fallen and an admission of repeated lying and then an attempt to assure everyone that said "lover" was 18 at the time the relationship happened, the second shoe awaits hovering predictably in every Oregonian's mind. The issue isn't homosexuality, it's the dread of soon-to-be-confirmed pederasty.
Bill Clinton's bold-faced lying to the Nation after sternly scolding us for prying into things none of us could have otherwise given a shit about (never mind lying in a court deposition about) led to the rise of Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, Matt Drudge and GWB. It took another decade for the GOP to pile up enough failure and scandal to overcome Clinton's lying. Can the GLBT civil rights movement afford to be saddled (heh) with a similar albatross?
Bill Clinton's bold-faced lying to the Nation after sternly scolding us for prying into things none of us could have otherwise given a shit about (never mind lying in a court deposition about) led to the rise of Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, Matt Drudge and GWB. It took another decade for the GOP to pile up enough failure and scandal to overcome Clinton's lying. Can the GLBT civil rights movement afford to be saddled (heh) with a similar albatross?
58
This post cracked me up...you can read the "harumph" between the lines, and the unwritten, "I said, Good Day, Suh!"
59
@50,56: While it is a concern, there are far too many cooks in the kitchen. It's increasingly unlikely given that it's been 3.5 years and we have quite a few media-types buzzing around the case who have been with it for coming-on two years. I have my concern, as most do, but I don't want to be "that guy" who immediately screams "pedo" whenever Adams walks by.
Scott and Amy would be stupid to withhold information of illegal activity, even lacking anything more than hearsay, as would Breedlove and Breedlove's former boyfriend who seriously dislikes Adams. We also have Breedlove's friends, who, with the exception of one person on Blogtown seem to be mum on the topic and various associates who certainly would have stumbled upon the info at some point. Of course, that person would be stupid to withhold information as well.
I think Sam should do his job and wait for the inquiry to finish. Putting him back to work is a surefire way to see if he's guilty, too, because then we'd have such a sharp focus on him that he'd crack at some point.
Beyond that, however, is the hilarious schism forming among Stranger/Mercury staff. Who will quit? Who will be fired? What happened to Matt Davis' scathing post making accusations of cover-up and collusion between Dan and Amy? Will Humpy ever find a perfect pair of shoes? Let's watch and find out.
Scott and Amy would be stupid to withhold information of illegal activity, even lacking anything more than hearsay, as would Breedlove and Breedlove's former boyfriend who seriously dislikes Adams. We also have Breedlove's friends, who, with the exception of one person on Blogtown seem to be mum on the topic and various associates who certainly would have stumbled upon the info at some point. Of course, that person would be stupid to withhold information as well.
I think Sam should do his job and wait for the inquiry to finish. Putting him back to work is a surefire way to see if he's guilty, too, because then we'd have such a sharp focus on him that he'd crack at some point.
Beyond that, however, is the hilarious schism forming among Stranger/Mercury staff. Who will quit? Who will be fired? What happened to Matt Davis' scathing post making accusations of cover-up and collusion between Dan and Amy? Will Humpy ever find a perfect pair of shoes? Let's watch and find out.
60
I agree. It's about the lying. He should have said that it was none of their business, like Bush did about his cocaine habit. Everyone knew he was gay so what is he hiding and what makes you so sure he isn't still lying?
From Dan's column on July 17, 2008:
I'm a 19-year-old gay boy, and while I have tried dating guys my own age, I realized a long time ago that I am far more interested (romantically and sexually) in older men. I understand, though, that many older men out there looking for a guy my age may not have the best of intentions. Do you have any tips for someone in my situation?
Timid Whelp In Needa Knowledge
Gay men in their 30s and 40s who will date teenage boys are almost always scum, TWINK, as you've surmised. But gay guys in their 30s and 40s who will date 23-year-olds? Some are scum, of course, because some of everyone is scum, but the scum makes up a far smaller percentage of the total. And these nonscummy older men are much more likely to be interested in a 23-year-old who has his shit together.
So I would advise you to skip the older guys who'll date you now and go and get your shit together. Get your ass into a decent college, fuck the odd TA (and they're all odd) to earn a little dating-and-mating wisdom, and then, after you graduate, take your gathered figurative shit to a big city where you'll meet plenty of attractive, older men.
Oh, and all the angry middle-aged gay men out there who "date" teenage boys and don't regard themselves as scum: Spare me the angry e-mails, fellas. I didn't say that you're all scum, guys, I wrote that you're "almost always scum." Unfortunately, scum never thinks it's scum, which can make it difficult to tell the scummy ones and nonscummy ones apart, particularly for young and inexperienced guys.
end column
And now Dan wants to go march for him? Fucking insane.
More...
From Dan's column on July 17, 2008:
I'm a 19-year-old gay boy, and while I have tried dating guys my own age, I realized a long time ago that I am far more interested (romantically and sexually) in older men. I understand, though, that many older men out there looking for a guy my age may not have the best of intentions. Do you have any tips for someone in my situation?
Timid Whelp In Needa Knowledge
Gay men in their 30s and 40s who will date teenage boys are almost always scum, TWINK, as you've surmised. But gay guys in their 30s and 40s who will date 23-year-olds? Some are scum, of course, because some of everyone is scum, but the scum makes up a far smaller percentage of the total. And these nonscummy older men are much more likely to be interested in a 23-year-old who has his shit together.
So I would advise you to skip the older guys who'll date you now and go and get your shit together. Get your ass into a decent college, fuck the odd TA (and they're all odd) to earn a little dating-and-mating wisdom, and then, after you graduate, take your gathered figurative shit to a big city where you'll meet plenty of attractive, older men.
Oh, and all the angry middle-aged gay men out there who "date" teenage boys and don't regard themselves as scum: Spare me the angry e-mails, fellas. I didn't say that you're all scum, guys, I wrote that you're "almost always scum." Unfortunately, scum never thinks it's scum, which can make it difficult to tell the scummy ones and nonscummy ones apart, particularly for young and inexperienced guys.
end column
And now Dan wants to go march for him? Fucking insane.
62
I think that the media have no right to know about someone's (private, consensual) sex life, and telling them the truth about it is "reprehensible." Some things should remain private. Journalists perform an important function in our society, but scum suckers who want to know who slept with whom deserve to be lied to.
63
@ 62 - Even if the lying person is sleeping (or slept with) a minor? And even if that lying person holds public office?
64
Seriously ~ he DID have an affair with an 18-year-old who was 17 when their relationship (whether yet consummated or not) began. And he's running for mayor in the town where Neil Goldschmidt--former mayor--was disgraced for sexual abuse of a minor. And those who kept Neil's affair silent were later lambasted.
So why should Adams, heading for the highest public office in the city, not have been questioned about whether or not he had an affair with a minor? At least so he could say no, so that we don't find out about it 20 years later like we did with Goldschmidt?
And his lie was not a mere denial. He exaggerated an entire alter-scenario wherein he mentored Breedlove as he'd happily do with any confused gay youth as an upstanding citizen who was also a gay man. Just read his Open Letter to Portlanders from fall '07. It's a shameful exploitation of the allegations to not merely deflect a "smear," but use it for further political gain. Don't take my word for it:
http://www.commissionersam.com/node/2801
I'm with Erica. I no longer support the mayor I voted for, and politically will not again. He should resign.
So why should Adams, heading for the highest public office in the city, not have been questioned about whether or not he had an affair with a minor? At least so he could say no, so that we don't find out about it 20 years later like we did with Goldschmidt?
And his lie was not a mere denial. He exaggerated an entire alter-scenario wherein he mentored Breedlove as he'd happily do with any confused gay youth as an upstanding citizen who was also a gay man. Just read his Open Letter to Portlanders from fall '07. It's a shameful exploitation of the allegations to not merely deflect a "smear," but use it for further political gain. Don't take my word for it:
http://www.commissionersam.com/node/2801
I'm with Erica. I no longer support the mayor I voted for, and politically will not again. He should resign.
66
I did. And his lie was far more basic and less embellished & exploited for personal gain than Sam's.
67
i already said this but:
Seriously, this would normally be on Dan's youth pastor watch. I understand the desire to make this LOOK okay because we want the gay community to succeed and move forward into mainstream politics but in this case what we have is a blatant abuse of power...Change the players and and we have that mug shot blank stare of the youth pastor.
Seriously, this would normally be on Dan's youth pastor watch. I understand the desire to make this LOOK okay because we want the gay community to succeed and move forward into mainstream politics but in this case what we have is a blatant abuse of power...Change the players and and we have that mug shot blank stare of the youth pastor.
68
Look, I don't have access to the news databases that you guys do. Erica, show me some data on how you responded to the Bill Clinton thing. Please.
70
Because I will. Hypocrites (and I don't exclude myself from that group) are the one thing that drive me nuts. Not liars. And not necessarily hypocrites if they become that way because it''s the only way to attain political office ... but real hypocrites.
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