Wednesday, January 21, 2009
Religion Let Me See If I Follow You...
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 9:02 AM
Barack Obama attends church regularly for more than 20 years (unlike that unchurched heathen Ronald Reagan), constantly talks up this Jesus person we've heard so little about for two thousands years now, leans heavily on the Christian bible during his inaugural address, and crawls into bed with your fat fucking bigoted preachers... and you still can't quite accept that he's actually a Christian. You can only bring yourself to say that Obama "professes to follow Christ."
But if after more than twenty years of regularly sucking cock, after more than twenty years of enjoying the hell out of anal sex (a practice recently adopted by your "virgin" daughters), after crawling into bed with the same man every night for nearly 15 years now... if I were to suddenly announce that I had accepted Jesus Christ as my personal savior and "left the homosexual lifestyle" you people—the same people who refuse to believe that Barack Obama is actually a Christian—would not only accept that I was a fully functional heterosexual now, praise Jesus, but denounce anyone who questioned my heterosexuality for their "bigotry" and "intolerance."
Funny how that works.
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1
Next time Dan, explain that the link provided is from Focus on the Family or whatever, so I don't mistakenly click on their link. Now I have to take a shower.
2
But his name is so scary!!!! People with dark skin, and frightening names can't possibly be real Christians. This investigation sounds like a job for Betty Bowers, The World's Best Christian, (TM)
4
From the "bigotry" link: "Transgenders and cross-dressers are affirmed for changing their gender but former homosexuals are ridiculed for making the decision to change their sexual orientation."
Interesting. It would be even more interesting if it turned out that PFOX was supportive of gender reassignment surgery and crossdressing.
Interesting. It would be even more interesting if it turned out that PFOX was supportive of gender reassignment surgery and crossdressing.
5
Well, these are mostly the same people who believe Jeebuz was a blonde-haired, blue-eyed, English-speaking Goyim - just like themselves - so, it's not really surprising they'd question Obama's religious credentials.
Besides, if God had meant for black people to be true Christians, he wouldn't have made them slaves first, now would he?
Besides, if God had meant for black people to be true Christians, he wouldn't have made them slaves first, now would he?
6
Well, the obvious answer can be found in the article you linked: many Christians (including just about all conservative Christians) believe that a person can't be a Christian if they support a woman's right to choose. Simple as that. There's no "pro-choice" in their worldview, just "anti-abortion" or "pro-abortion".
The other part of it probably does have to do with the color of his skin and his name. Remember, these are the same fundies who spent the campaign passing around chain emails about Barack Obama being a socialist Muslim terrorist.
The other part of it probably does have to do with the color of his skin and his name. Remember, these are the same fundies who spent the campaign passing around chain emails about Barack Obama being a socialist Muslim terrorist.
7
Yes, thats how I make sense of it.
I actually signed up for his (Ron Jones) blog, because I wanted to ask him (and I mean respectfully ask him) about his open letter. He makes a plea for the hope lost in aborted children. A plea for their rights under the constitution. So I'm wondering about those 5 -10% of aborted children who are gay, does he also support their rights to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness? If he only supports their right to life, than perhaps (and this is truly revolting and depressing thought for me)it is a mercy to not subject them to a life of condemnation and second class citizenry?
I actually signed up for his (Ron Jones) blog, because I wanted to ask him (and I mean respectfully ask him) about his open letter. He makes a plea for the hope lost in aborted children. A plea for their rights under the constitution. So I'm wondering about those 5 -10% of aborted children who are gay, does he also support their rights to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness? If he only supports their right to life, than perhaps (and this is truly revolting and depressing thought for me)it is a mercy to not subject them to a life of condemnation and second class citizenry?
9
As long as you didn't assent to the proposition that women be required to allow unwanted foetuses to gestate in their uteri, you still wouldn't be a Christian. So you might as well stick to sucking cock.
10
Well, Dan, here's the thing of it: You're white. And while your name is kind of funny, it's not scary. And your brother Michael does such nice work on his radio show.
11
from my fundamentalist upbringing, this is what i recall:
1. pro-choice means non-christian (in almost all cases)
2. democrat means likely not-christian
two other factors that challenge the sincerity of obama's faith in the fundamentalist evangelical mind are his view on homosexuals, and his view on other religions (and non-believers).
another quirk to note is that this sort of christian may say they do not "judge" a persons salvation one way or the other, as that is the lord's job. in other words, in that christian subset many play around with the idea that a person can never really know about spiritual state of another person. practically, this works out just as dan mentions above: they believe the cases they want to, and "doubt" the cases they don't. in those latter cases, they will say things to the effect they have "cause to question his salvation", or "he cannot be a believer and do or believe X."
just for the record, though, i never heard that black people could not be christians. so, that argument is a likely a digression. there may, however, be some who think obama is a muslim (partly because of his name, appearance and upbringing), and he is only professing to be a christian until he can... i don't know.... enslave all of america or something.
1. pro-choice means non-christian (in almost all cases)
2. democrat means likely not-christian
two other factors that challenge the sincerity of obama's faith in the fundamentalist evangelical mind are his view on homosexuals, and his view on other religions (and non-believers).
another quirk to note is that this sort of christian may say they do not "judge" a persons salvation one way or the other, as that is the lord's job. in other words, in that christian subset many play around with the idea that a person can never really know about spiritual state of another person. practically, this works out just as dan mentions above: they believe the cases they want to, and "doubt" the cases they don't. in those latter cases, they will say things to the effect they have "cause to question his salvation", or "he cannot be a believer and do or believe X."
just for the record, though, i never heard that black people could not be christians. so, that argument is a likely a digression. there may, however, be some who think obama is a muslim (partly because of his name, appearance and upbringing), and he is only professing to be a christian until he can... i don't know.... enslave all of america or something.
12
Are you actually proposing that Focus on the Family and the people who believe them should use deductive reasoning? Because if you are you're just pissing in the wind my friend. They simply are not capable of rational thought.
14
It's almost like these idiots have some underlying fear of their own shortcomings, and are compensating in some way.
15
I think anyone who tells a gay man that he should just "choose" to be straight should also offer up their daughter to marry the guy.
16
Newsflash: people who talk to invisible voices and believe in "miracles" and disparage rational science have... illogical arguments.
Whodathunk it?
Guess one just has to take it on faith, eh, Dan?
Whodathunk it?
Guess one just has to take it on faith, eh, Dan?
17
i'm curious, dan, as to if you think some of the ex-gays are really bi, and could thus be actually happy married to a woman (or man, as the case may be.)
19
"(unlike that unchurched heathen Ronald Reagan)"
"HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE HIS FAITH, IT IS A PERSONAL MATTER!"
Oh fundie hypocrites, when will you stop being horrible.
"HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE HIS FAITH, IT IS A PERSONAL MATTER!"
Oh fundie hypocrites, when will you stop being horrible.
20
just maybe until it is acceptable to be a non-believer people like Obama and most of the blue state electeds fake being christians like men used to get married and even have kids even though they were gay in order to succeed
21
just maybe, until it is acceptable to be a non-believer, people like Obama (and most of the blue state electeds) [will] fake being christians. like men used to get married and even have kids, even though they were gay, in order to succeed.
punctuation, omgz.
punctuation, omgz.
22
TOO many people are ignorant and lame.
I am from the South - where negative Obama comments are persistantly being shouted into my ear....
So, one day I decided to read about Obama and was saddened to discover that I am surrounded by narrow-minded idiots who wobble on the line between being racist and not. (Though they claim that they are NOT racist - - Yeah, riiight.)
I think he - OBAMA - is awesome and I hope that the narrow-minded fools out there can bend a little and quit sounding like a bunch of backwoods MFers!
I am from the South - where negative Obama comments are persistantly being shouted into my ear....
So, one day I decided to read about Obama and was saddened to discover that I am surrounded by narrow-minded idiots who wobble on the line between being racist and not. (Though they claim that they are NOT racist - - Yeah, riiight.)
I think he - OBAMA - is awesome and I hope that the narrow-minded fools out there can bend a little and quit sounding like a bunch of backwoods MFers!
23
I have been persistently questioning those who either assume or purport to "know" that Obama is a Muslim how they reconcile that with Reverend Wright (indisputably Christian) being "his" pastor. The explanation I finally got is that he's "culturally Muslim."
Wow.
OK, so even though I haven't gone to Mass in more than 30 years, haven't taken Communion or gone to confession, I remain Catholic, because I'm, what, "culturally Catholic"?
Wow.
OK, so even though I haven't gone to Mass in more than 30 years, haven't taken Communion or gone to confession, I remain Catholic, because I'm, what, "culturally Catholic"?
24
Yes, but they still wouldn't sit beside you in church. Just ask the "Ex-Gays", not what Wayne Besen calls the "Ex-Gay for Pay" but the poor souls who have put themselves through all that how they're treated.
The bigotry P-FOX In The Henhouse is against is bigotry toward P-FOX and the Ex-Gay Industry. Once a poor kid has been run though the ex-gay laundromat and become a statistic they can toss around they don't give a damn about them. Ever see P-FOX criticize churches over how they treat ex-gays? Me either. But their stories aren't hard to find at all.
The bigotry P-FOX In The Henhouse is against is bigotry toward P-FOX and the Ex-Gay Industry. Once a poor kid has been run though the ex-gay laundromat and become a statistic they can toss around they don't give a damn about them. Ever see P-FOX criticize churches over how they treat ex-gays? Me either. But their stories aren't hard to find at all.
25
It was funny, I read your post without clicking the link or reading the comments and thought, "Why Dan, every good Christian knows you can't both be a Christian and be Pro-Choice." Then I clicked on the link, and lo and behold...
I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian family as others here, and while I escaped (I guess I asked too many questions and was too instinctually feminist?), my sibling and a vast majority of his friends are followers, attending a certain infamous local church. Many of them would vote for the antichrist if he "professed" to be pro-life. In fact, I'm pretty certain that if the antichrist someday shows up, he will do just that, just to fuck with people.
I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian family as others here, and while I escaped (I guess I asked too many questions and was too instinctually feminist?), my sibling and a vast majority of his friends are followers, attending a certain infamous local church. Many of them would vote for the antichrist if he "professed" to be pro-life. In fact, I'm pretty certain that if the antichrist someday shows up, he will do just that, just to fuck with people.
26
I want to know how they allow you to 'choose' to be straight, yet not allow any other choices? ::sigh::
27
"Is" a Christian isn't a label. It's about walking the walk.
And about 99 percent of all the self-professed Xtians I've ever met didn't know where the walk was.
It's not about what label you wear. It's about the fit.
And about 99 percent of all the self-professed Xtians I've ever met didn't know where the walk was.
It's not about what label you wear. It's about the fit.
29
As you put it, if you continued to suck cock and love anal sex with other men, noone would celebrate your professed heterosexuality. Just as Obama preaches abortion and LGBT relationships, why would Christians celebrate his professed Christianity?
You are what you do, not what you say.
You are what you do, not what you say.
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