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News & ArtsWednesday, January 14, 2009
Tech Egg on MyFace
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:44 PM
NYT:
The Internet may not be such a dangerous place for children after all.A task force created by 49 state attorneys general to look into the problem of sexual solicitation of children online has concluded that there really is not a significant problem.
The findings ran counter to popular perceptions of online dangers as reinforced by depictions in the news media like NBC’s “To Catch a Predator” series. One attorney general was quick to criticize the group’s report.
The panel, the Internet Safety Technical Task Force, was charged with examining the extent of the threats children face on social networks like MySpace and Facebook, amid widespread fears that adults were using these popular Web sites to deceive and prey on children.
But the report concluded that the problem of bullying among children, both online and offline, poses a far more serious challenge than the sexual solicitation of minors by adults.
I've been arguing with my kid for months about whether or not he should be allowed to have a page on MyFace or SpaceBook—because I totally fell for the hype and hysteria.
1
YOUR KID IS OLD ENOUGH TO WANT TO BE ON FACEBOOK OR MYSPACE???
Oh, my God, do I feel old...
I probably should delete my Facebook and MySpace accounts.
Oh, my God, do I feel old...
I probably should delete my Facebook and MySpace accounts.
2
Right, but for the wrong reasons. Kids *shouldn't* have MySpace or Facebook accounts. Neither should adults.
3
If your kid gets a MySpace, I think you're legally obligated to lapidate him or something. It's in the Bible.
4
I still wouldn't Dan. There is mucho drama that goes on between teh kiddies on MySpace/FaceBook, as if there wasn't enough to deal with as a kid in real life.
7
If you've done your job and raised an intelligent kid you should try and trust his judgment. He ought to know what types of red flags there are for online communications, chat and email included not just websites.
I can't imagine that your kid couldn't handle that type of common sense.
I can't imagine that your kid couldn't handle that type of common sense.
8
There is a good chance your kid already has a myspace or facebook page. They can eaisly set one up on a library computer or at a friends house. It is less complicated than obtaining books or magazines that our own parents thought we could not possibly obtain a generation ago.
9
Does that mean someone will finally take down that "ZOMG! One-in-four childrenz iz sexually solicited on teh Internets!"billboard at 40th & Stone Way N. that's been up for, like, three year now?
10
So, are they going to take down that giant "1 in 4 children has been solicited for sex on the internet" billboard, then?
Let him have his Facebook (not MySpace). Just monitor it. Kids will get into all kinds of drama, but smart ones will make good use of it. Did you refuse to let him learn to swim because people sometimes drown?
Let him have his Facebook (not MySpace). Just monitor it. Kids will get into all kinds of drama, but smart ones will make good use of it. Did you refuse to let him learn to swim because people sometimes drown?
11
that statistic about minors getting sexually solicited online- it doesn't specify who from. my minor friends and i solicited the FUCK out of one another online, all the time. and this was nearly 10 years ago.
in other news, to be stalked, you must be stalk-able. if you do give in and let the progeny have an individual internet presence, have a nice, serious talk with him about how smart kids don't put their real names, their friends real names (esp last name), the name of their town or school, their school mascot, any part of their address, or essays about their local geography on searchable web pages. and make sure the profile is set to private.
in other news, to be stalked, you must be stalk-able. if you do give in and let the progeny have an individual internet presence, have a nice, serious talk with him about how smart kids don't put their real names, their friends real names (esp last name), the name of their town or school, their school mascot, any part of their address, or essays about their local geography on searchable web pages. and make sure the profile is set to private.
12
Ah, yes, "To Catch A Predator", where journalism = "For a good time call Sally" and a phone number on a wall of the men's room and seeing who calls....
13
There are good reasons your kid shouldn't have a Facebook or MySpace page, chief among them being the airing & permanent preservation of all their personal shit that should stay personal.
14
i had a great quality time conversation with my 11 year old about how to identify the whorebots on myspace who try friending you
15
DJ is too young for myface or spacebook. i believe you have to be 16, so he needs to wait five years.
16
technically speaking, isn't it required that one certify that they are over 18 to set up a myspace or facebook account? I know or at least think i made mine at 17 but I do believe I recall the pang of concern over comitting fraud. Now I know these newer generations have less and less concer with fraud but I think that may be a good thing to sit down and talk to kids about. So that they are at least informed of the crimes they commit when they falsely certify that they are over 18 for the variety of reasons that come up besides social networks... namely porn. That was also a decision I weighed very carefully as a minor. Ultimately I went ahead and did it anyway, but with the clear knowledge of the legal and social ramifications should I be caught.
17
I definitely know more than one person my parents' age (50s - 60s) who don't know anything about MySpace or Facebook BESIDES that predators prowl them. As my ex's completely computer illiterate mother put it: "MySpace? Isn't that a website for sexual predators?"
18
Number 2 has it. Keep your kid out of social networking sites because they to socializing what TMZ is to art.
19
I always thought that 1 in 4 children billboard on Stone Way seemed a bit outlandish...that and it's been up there f-o-r-e-v-e-r. And references?
Bullying, on the other hand, is an obvious problem in today's schools, particularly for lgbt youth. (See Lawrence King et al.)
Bullying, on the other hand, is an obvious problem in today's schools, particularly for lgbt youth. (See Lawrence King et al.)
20
Since one of his fathers earns part of his living by defacing the World Wide Web, why shouldn't DJ?
with supervision, of course...
for Dan, not DJ.
with supervision, of course...
for Dan, not DJ.
21
Setting side the fact that your kid is most likely not old enough to have an account on most social-networking sites let's be realistic.
If have done your job as a parent and talked about personal safety, intelligent decisions, consequences of one's actions and how to read certain situations -he will be okay. He might do some stupid things and be a bit of an idiot, but that is part of the learning process. It can also be a good lesson for him in trust/maturity. You could set down very specific rules about having an account and if he breaks them -you take away the account for awhile. And make it a constant conversation about choices/personal responsibility. I think the internet wouldn't be so scary for some parents if they talked honestly with their kids. (like sex, drugs or the voting process)
If have done your job as a parent and talked about personal safety, intelligent decisions, consequences of one's actions and how to read certain situations -he will be okay. He might do some stupid things and be a bit of an idiot, but that is part of the learning process. It can also be a good lesson for him in trust/maturity. You could set down very specific rules about having an account and if he breaks them -you take away the account for awhile. And make it a constant conversation about choices/personal responsibility. I think the internet wouldn't be so scary for some parents if they talked honestly with their kids. (like sex, drugs or the voting process)
22
Make it a condition that you have his password & approve all his "friends" on the sites. It's the same thing as any other parent-supervised "big kid" activities.
23
Just put the computer the kids use in the living room, where you can easily see it.
That works a lot better.
That works a lot better.
24
MySpace requires you to be 14; Facebook requires you to be 13, and if you are between 13 and 18 you must be a student in high school or college.
25
My 15 year old nephew has a Facebook page (probably MySpace too). Nearly every kid in his school is on both. His parents have the computer in the kitchen alcove in plain site, and they monitor their kid's internet activities, and have passwords to their pages. All in all, that seems like a reasonably prudent approach.
I'm not sure how old DJ is right now, maybe a bit too young for Myspace. But if not now, it is probably something to deal with in the next couple of years.
Deal.
I'm not sure how old DJ is right now, maybe a bit too young for Myspace. But if not now, it is probably something to deal with in the next couple of years.
Deal.
26
Facebook: Are you 13 or older?
Kid: No
Facebook: Then you cannot join.
Kid: (clicks back key)
Facebook: Are you 13 or older?
Kid: Yes
Kid: No
Facebook: Then you cannot join.
Kid: (clicks back key)
Facebook: Are you 13 or older?
Kid: Yes
27
I make it a general rule that if there's been a sensational news story about some Terrible Thing on tee-vee, then I don't believe it.
28
I wish my parents kept me off the Internet until I was older. Thankfully, Internet archivists weren't as hardcore then as they are now, and even as an adult, I haven't been careful enough. But boy, if my pre-teen self was permanently burnt into the Internet... I don't want to think about it.
29
Get on facebook yourself, even if you have to do it under a pseudonym because your so effin famous! Your kid should have learned proper online etiquette by now, something the parents of GenY didn't have the opportunity to teach. I'm 24, and have aunts, uncles, cousins, parents and brothers on facebook. That sure keeps me from posting every bad, out of focus, drunk-in-a-bar party pic that I take.
Maybe the old fogies don't think so, but facebook is a really great tool for organizing events and keeping involved in your community. Let him start one already.
Maybe the old fogies don't think so, but facebook is a really great tool for organizing events and keeping involved in your community. Let him start one already.
30
24 - not true. Facebook is now open to anyone. It was just college students at Harvard initially.
31
Last year, when our kids were ( 10 & 7) the Computer Savant (aka Mr. Amazonmidwife) set up a chat room/message board for both kids and their friends. The rules are the kids can give invites to their friends, but a parent must contact us before their child will be added. We told them this was 'practice' for other social networking sites that they'd be eligible for when they're older. We do monitor the site sporadically (less so as time goes on and we see that they're not bullying or contemplating imminent harm to each other or themselves.) CS is a big open source guy, so there aren't a lot of flashy apps, but the kids seem to like it. Maybe you could enlist the aid of some geek friend and do something like that as a compromise?
32
@30, no. See http://www.facebook.com/terms.php
Over 18, anyone can join. 13-17, must be in high school or college. 0-12, must lie about your age.
Over 18, anyone can join. 13-17, must be in high school or college. 0-12, must lie about your age.
33
I would second what people are saying here - make sure he understands about personal safety. Feel free to change your status to reflect what you're doing, just don't say where. Don't give out personal information - and make sure you define what that means. And then just keep an eye on it. My one concern would be making sure he has the account locked down well and keeping an eye out for the same sort of wackos who send you nasty threatening letters - because unless he uses an alternate name and all that, he'll get those on Facebook as well.
34
Protecting kids from sexual predators online is easy, seeing as it is not, in fact, possible to rape someone over the Internet. As long as a kid doesn't give out their address or meet someone in the real world, they are not going to be molested by someone they met online.
Protecting kids from having their feelings hurt online, however, is not possible; it's just too easy for any fuckwad to say whatever mean thing they want to anybody else. Nursing those hurt feelings and teaching kids how to cope with the fact that the world contains assholes is a billion times more difficult than avoiding molestation.
Protecting kids from having their feelings hurt online, however, is not possible; it's just too easy for any fuckwad to say whatever mean thing they want to anybody else. Nursing those hurt feelings and teaching kids how to cope with the fact that the world contains assholes is a billion times more difficult than avoiding molestation.
35
@33, I don't think so. Personal safety isn't really an issue; that's what the article is about. What he needs to be aware of is more how online social interaction works, like "be slow to give offense, and slow to take it" and "don't talk shit about people behind their backs" and "don't take it personally when some boob who doesn't even know you starts being mean". He needs to learn how to participate in online conversation, to watch some flamewars progress and peter out, and to learn how to deal with people who are really cool and fun, people who are dull and not too bright, people who are argumentative but potentially interesting (or not), and, yes, people with evil intent.
Realistically, that's much more likely to be learning how not to get ripped off on Craigslist (hint: do not buy a car using Western Union) than it is how not to get on a plane and meet a pedophile in a distant airport or something.
Like @34 says, learning how to survive getting your feelings hurt, and learning what it's like to hurt someone else's feelings, is a basic life skill that long predates the internet, but which the internet can make startlingly immediate sometimes.
Realistically, that's much more likely to be learning how not to get ripped off on Craigslist (hint: do not buy a car using Western Union) than it is how not to get on a plane and meet a pedophile in a distant airport or something.
Like @34 says, learning how to survive getting your feelings hurt, and learning what it's like to hurt someone else's feelings, is a basic life skill that long predates the internet, but which the internet can make startlingly immediate sometimes.
36
don't beat yourself up too much dan. i actually met a woman once who wouldn't let her 15 yr. old son upload his budding filmmaker videos to youtube because she was convinced that he would somehow make himself vulnerable to predators by doing so.
37
If you want to protect DJ, let him have a Facebook account. That will keep him busy on Sunday mornings, so he doesn't get curious about church, where the sexual predators really are.
38
Dan, I have a son that is now 17. We started with computer in a public space, with lots of monitoring. and mentoring. He finally has worked up to a computer in his bedroom, and has a My Space and Facebook. I just stopped with monitoring My Space (I have never monitored personal messages.) It has been a graduated trust issue, along with signing a personal statement about not viewing pornography, after we had a bout of that on his grandparent's computer and was found by myself. It led to a long and important discussion about the Internet, porn, it's addictive nature and other discussions that all have contributed to his knowledge of people and social skills. BTW, my son is gay, out, happy and a young leader and we live in a small town. The bottom line is communication, education, trust, responsibility and the knowledge it is a privilege, like driving and can be taken away anytime. Grades have always had to be kept up.
39
I'd start him out on something civil, clean-cut and convivial, like commenting on Slog posts. Let him learn how to operate in the social milieu of the Web, and then move him up. Myspace is pretty cut-throat.
40
@2
Get over it, Cranky Old Man. You sound like those people who refuse to get cell phones. ;)
Dan, not allowing a school-age child to participate in social networking sites is child abuse. They're gonna take your kid away and give him to a youth pastor if you don't knock it off.
Get over it, Cranky Old Man. You sound like those people who refuse to get cell phones. ;)
Dan, not allowing a school-age child to participate in social networking sites is child abuse. They're gonna take your kid away and give him to a youth pastor if you don't knock it off.
41
On Facebook, it's pretty easy to tell who the predators are... If they have no friends, then be wary, if they have lots of friends, but no photos, be wary. MySpace is harder, and far doucheier.
My little sister's 10, and badly wants a bebo page, but my Mom's forbidden it til she's in middle school, at least.
My little sister's 10, and badly wants a bebo page, but my Mom's forbidden it til she's in middle school, at least.
42
Having read all the comments, I'm not sure what to say. I'm of two minds. Yes, a child should be computer savvy, but on the other hand, I am opposed to 'social' websites. I joined up with Facebook after much prodding from friends. The result, I have a page full of invitations to sign up for all the stupid applications they have on their accounts. I don't have, or rather I don't want to give up the time to open all these stupid applications. We never talk on the phone, or meet for coffee anymore. The social website has made us anti social.
Does an 11-year-old need to have access to the Internet, sure. Like everyone else has said, have guidelines and restrictions, make sure he doesn't put out ANY personal information, keep grades up. Does he need a Facebook account? I think not. Set up some playdates instead, and let him be social in person.
Does an 11-year-old need to have access to the Internet, sure. Like everyone else has said, have guidelines and restrictions, make sure he doesn't put out ANY personal information, keep grades up. Does he need a Facebook account? I think not. Set up some playdates instead, and let him be social in person.
43
#42--If all you get from your friends on Facebook are endless dumb application requests...consider the possibility that the problem isn't entirely with Facebook.
Facebook is just a tool. It has or lacks value based on how you use it. (Or who you use it with.)
And let's face a larger truth: a lot of our talking on the phone and our meeting for coffee can be more efficiently handled by a quick glance at a series of status updates as listed on our news feed.
That efficiency gives us time to actually, you know, DO STUFF...
...including make new friends!
Facebook is just a tool. It has or lacks value based on how you use it. (Or who you use it with.)
And let's face a larger truth: a lot of our talking on the phone and our meeting for coffee can be more efficiently handled by a quick glance at a series of status updates as listed on our news feed.
That efficiency gives us time to actually, you know, DO STUFF...
...including make new friends!
44
I've recently gotten a Facebook account, and already found it useful for getting invitations to real-life events that I enjoy. I also enjoy the low-key updates on friend's lives. It's sort of like the chatty Christmas card, only I hear about the job when it actually happens, not months later.
My teenage son who has a thick skin has a Facebook account under a fake name with no real info about him on it. He is "friends" with most of his highschool class. I don't think he uses it much, but it seems pretty harmless, really. My daughter who is easily hurt does not, and I think that was a good choice on her part. (Adults are much less cruel than teenage girls, and I'm sure she'll be able to handle it in college when it might be more important.)
I've never really understood the fear of on-line sexual predators as it's impossible to rape someone over the internet. Kids shouldn't be going off to spend time with anyone their parents don't know.
I think the real risk of Facebook and the ilk is the danger of posting something stupid that might come back to haunt you. Like the Palin kid's boyfriend who (reportedly) posted that he never wanted kids.
My teenage son who has a thick skin has a Facebook account under a fake name with no real info about him on it. He is "friends" with most of his highschool class. I don't think he uses it much, but it seems pretty harmless, really. My daughter who is easily hurt does not, and I think that was a good choice on her part. (Adults are much less cruel than teenage girls, and I'm sure she'll be able to handle it in college when it might be more important.)
I've never really understood the fear of on-line sexual predators as it's impossible to rape someone over the internet. Kids shouldn't be going off to spend time with anyone their parents don't know.
I think the real risk of Facebook and the ilk is the danger of posting something stupid that might come back to haunt you. Like the Palin kid's boyfriend who (reportedly) posted that he never wanted kids.
45
Penn & Teller did a great & highly entertaining episode of their "Bullshit!" showtime series this year called "Stranger Danger" and talked about how overhyped it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpvlHjFIC…
Facebook is probably safe for kids, but letting them have a profile on Sitonmyfacebook is probably not advised.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpvlHjFIC…
Facebook is probably safe for kids, but letting them have a profile on Sitonmyfacebook is probably not advised.
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