Tuesday, January 13, 2009
Homo Gay Logic
Posted by Dominic Holden on Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:22 AM
This pretty poster at 15th Avenue and East Madison Street chronicles the ramifications of new buildings:
And here's the text:
Capitol Hill 2009: The saga continues....First came the condos and expensive boutiques.
Then our LGBT Center and gay bars had to close their doors. Since 2006, we’ve seen an upsurge in violent attacks on queers. We feel less safe than ever.
News flash!! A threat against queer bars was sent on January 7th that 55 of us will die. It is being ignored by our media….
The question for queer Seattleites and our allies remains…
How will we protect queer space? How will we act?
Share via
6
Yeah all those suburban folks that vote GOP that moved to the hill to be closer to work just adopted the values of those around them. This poster is completely ridiculous. Those dumb gays and their posters!
8
They could probably recruit a bunch of buff guys to protect these spaces. Maybe decked out in tough-guy leather outfits to look more menacing or something.
9
Uh, if "our" media are ignoring the ricin threats, how the heck do we know about it? Oh, yeah, The Stranger--so the Stranger is "their" media. Gotcha.
11
The poster is dumb! Most straight people who move to the Hill are gay-friendly and support gay rights. Do you think some homophobic jock would want to live here and be surrounded by gay people? Their whole insult repertory would be useless! they'd have nothing to scream in sports bars.
12
I think this poster says it all. And I think the police and queer community should look at the BIAW and the people affiliated with it more closely than ever for some possible answers.
13
Change is constant. For all we know, in 100 years the biggest gay neighborhood in Seattle will be Bellevue.
15
uh, no, this poster is making some valid points...the yuppifacation/blandification of the Hill go hand in hand with the loss of gay space, culural identity and personal freedom and safety. It's also bad city planning. If neighborhoods all lose their individual identities, we'll end up with a city comprised of cookie cutter neighborhoods inhabited by chain stores and rich white people that has all the interest and appeal of Topeka Kansas...
20
I hope more GLBT folks continue to respond as a "we" because that is how we along with our allies will get anywhere. Apart from the issue raised by the poster maybe The Stranger should do some reporting instead of the losing proposition of trying to control the vibe in and about the community.
21
hey 17:
no, really 18 will, all will be forgiven, and then some; like for instance he'll then wow you with his taste in superior housewares cause those are the things we're good @, blowjobs and accoutrements.
no, really 18 will, all will be forgiven, and then some; like for instance he'll then wow you with his taste in superior housewares cause those are the things we're good @, blowjobs and accoutrements.
22
Nothing can undermine one's best intentions quicker than ComicLife and a Comic Sans font, that's for sure.
25
When Capital Hill was, er... "more gay" - which honestly it probably never was, but in the 80's it was perceived that way 'cause gay was like, scary, to most folks - it was also considerably more dangerous. Now that it's relatively safe, it's also relatively bland - and expensive. What are you gonna do? Cities are living things, neighborhoods change.
The service industry is going to suffer big time through this economy, but most gay bars are better positioned to survive the downturn.
And, what #1 said.
The service industry is going to suffer big time through this economy, but most gay bars are better positioned to survive the downturn.
And, what #1 said.
26
I know! let's build a BIG wall around the neighborhood, and then only let people wearing the "special gay star" on their clothes live and work there! And never let anyone wearing a "special gay star" move out and live in any other neighborhood because it might dilute the purity of the area. But at least the gays will be able to have their special stores and bars and streetlife without any fear that any non-gay person will see them or interact with them or even realize that they're part of the whole city.
After all, it worked so well the first time....
After all, it worked so well the first time....
28
This sort of campaign supports the anti-gay prejudice that gays want special, as opposed to equal, rights. If this group were to propose reviving the Q-squad to help decrease gay-bashing, or something positive I could get behind them but they just come off as a bunch of odd-balls who can't accept economic realities.
I thought that the LGBT Center closed because they couldn't pay their rent due to financial mismanagement, bad decisions and a lack of donations and grants. Who's to blame for that?
Are these folks suggesting that Capitol Hill be designated a reservation or protected zone with a moratorium on construction and rent increases?
Will there be gates staffed with radical faeries and trannies mandated (persondated?) to screen visitors? Who will decide which businesses are allowed to open? Who will compensate property owners who are denied the right to develop their assets?
I thought that the LGBT Center closed because they couldn't pay their rent due to financial mismanagement, bad decisions and a lack of donations and grants. Who's to blame for that?
Are these folks suggesting that Capitol Hill be designated a reservation or protected zone with a moratorium on construction and rent increases?
Will there be gates staffed with radical faeries and trannies mandated (persondated?) to screen visitors? Who will decide which businesses are allowed to open? Who will compensate property owners who are denied the right to develop their assets?
29
The poster's right.
Whenever I see an expensive boutique filled with homophobes, I instinctively cross the street nowadays.
I never used to do that before.
Whenever I see an expensive boutique filled with homophobes, I instinctively cross the street nowadays.
I never used to do that before.
30
yeah @ 28:
"Who will compensate property owners who are denied the right to develop their assets?
i feelz bad for them too.
but may i suggest one more thing?
perhaps the poor just need to move to renton or monroe and stop hurting our image. we have it bad enough without the stinky people mucking about.
"Who will compensate property owners who are denied the right to develop their assets?
i feelz bad for them too.
but may i suggest one more thing?
perhaps the poor just need to move to renton or monroe and stop hurting our image. we have it bad enough without the stinky people mucking about.
31
@7:
Queer Neighborhood??
Where are the borders of this queer neighborhood and why would you want to designate a QN.
Queer friendliness everywhere is the true goal not just a designated area. What next bus tours so people can see the queers in their area.
No one group should be thinking they need a specific area to live in. It just sounds wrong to say you live in the Queer neighborhood.
I am gay and do not live in a queer designated/identified area. I do not think in those terms ever. I do not wake up each day thinking about queerness, being gay, or how my neighborhood is not queer enough to be designated a queer neighborhood.
Saving outreach programs are important but bars, not so much. Bars come and go. Were I live there are less bars now than there were in the late 70's but it is not something I get bent out of shape over that is just progress but there are far more outreach organizations. The problem is they are all mostly centered in queer areas and that is the problem because the majority prefers it that way. Does that mean secretly the majority is saying "stay in your own area"
If there were more outreach services for gay people in other areas and more acceptance then that would be something to be prod of. But designating queers into an area is not a great accomplishment. It is just creating a small area you feel safe in and others feel safe knowing you are there and not in their neighborhood. Yes it is a start but should not be the end. If bars go under then open another, lots of bars go under because of development, they originally opened for the same reason. If a particular bar is worthy of saving for some historical designation then lucky you. But being queer is not something amazingly special to the point of saving compared to any other group. You are not under attack. Things change and it is not always a happy change for a particular group. It does not mean all queer people will dissolve away it just means a shift. Playing victim never gets the results that move you ahead it just gets you a small amount of special treatment to appease you while everything else moves on.
Right now you are treating yourselves as part of the problem not part of the solution.
If a massive amount of queers with lots of money moved into Capitol Hill to live in the new condos there would still be a big change, the bars would go under and new ones would open the development would happen anyway.
More...
Queer Neighborhood??
Where are the borders of this queer neighborhood and why would you want to designate a QN.
Queer friendliness everywhere is the true goal not just a designated area. What next bus tours so people can see the queers in their area.
No one group should be thinking they need a specific area to live in. It just sounds wrong to say you live in the Queer neighborhood.
I am gay and do not live in a queer designated/identified area. I do not think in those terms ever. I do not wake up each day thinking about queerness, being gay, or how my neighborhood is not queer enough to be designated a queer neighborhood.
Saving outreach programs are important but bars, not so much. Bars come and go. Were I live there are less bars now than there were in the late 70's but it is not something I get bent out of shape over that is just progress but there are far more outreach organizations. The problem is they are all mostly centered in queer areas and that is the problem because the majority prefers it that way. Does that mean secretly the majority is saying "stay in your own area"
If there were more outreach services for gay people in other areas and more acceptance then that would be something to be prod of. But designating queers into an area is not a great accomplishment. It is just creating a small area you feel safe in and others feel safe knowing you are there and not in their neighborhood. Yes it is a start but should not be the end. If bars go under then open another, lots of bars go under because of development, they originally opened for the same reason. If a particular bar is worthy of saving for some historical designation then lucky you. But being queer is not something amazingly special to the point of saving compared to any other group. You are not under attack. Things change and it is not always a happy change for a particular group. It does not mean all queer people will dissolve away it just means a shift. Playing victim never gets the results that move you ahead it just gets you a small amount of special treatment to appease you while everything else moves on.
Right now you are treating yourselves as part of the problem not part of the solution.
If a massive amount of queers with lots of money moved into Capitol Hill to live in the new condos there would still be a big change, the bars would go under and new ones would open the development would happen anyway.
32
I actually don't give a shit about the Gay Ghetto. It was lost years ago in Seattle and frankly I have been able to get along without it.
So I am perfectly fine with the way Cap Hill is today. But then I moved to Wedgewood and spend about a third of my time in Chicago...
So I am perfectly fine with the way Cap Hill is today. But then I moved to Wedgewood and spend about a third of my time in Chicago...
33
I don't think anyone wants a gay ghetto or to exclude the straight, (unless they're poorly dressed and stupid), but there IS a problem when ANY neighborhood starts to lose it's cultural identity and becomes bland and over-priced.
And if the queer community can't feel safe walking in the neighborhood they helped create and define, then it's a serious problem.
And if the queer community can't feel safe walking in the neighborhood they helped create and define, then it's a serious problem.
34
@30, you don't answer the question. Why should people lose the right to develop their own property or have to provide subsidized housing for LGBT people, poor or otherwise?
35
I was in WaMu on Broadway yesterday, and it certainly seemed that gay space is doing fine. And the boy cashing my check was cute with his neatly trimmed beard!
36
This is a stupid, stupid, stupid non-issue.
Thirty years ago, Capitol Hill was known for restaurants, apartment houses and furniture stores. All of those things, have a gay element, of course, but are not exclusively gay. The gay bars were all down in Pioneer Square, and had been since the first gay bar opened in Seattle in God only knows what year. That's also where the first gay community center was located. All of that gradually moved up to the hill in the late 70's and early 80's, with no hand wringing and no outrage.
Jesus, people - learn your gay history.
Thirty years ago, Capitol Hill was known for restaurants, apartment houses and furniture stores. All of those things, have a gay element, of course, but are not exclusively gay. The gay bars were all down in Pioneer Square, and had been since the first gay bar opened in Seattle in God only knows what year. That's also where the first gay community center was located. All of that gradually moved up to the hill in the late 70's and early 80's, with no hand wringing and no outrage.
Jesus, people - learn your gay history.
37
Gay Ghettos are changing and disappearing across the country. It's a mix of gentrification, growing queer acceptance and the advent of Manhunt making hooking up infinitely easier. Gay bars are closing because there's less of a perceived need for them.
It's bittersweet overall -- the loss of queer community is sad but the growth of queer tolerance and integration is what we need if we're ever going to move forward.
It's bittersweet overall -- the loss of queer community is sad but the growth of queer tolerance and integration is what we need if we're ever going to move forward.
38
Change or die, bitches, that's the way of all things. Capitol Hill is changing, Seattle is changing, and that's what happens to neighborhoods and cities. God willing, we can end up with queers feeling comfortable enough in every Seattle neighborhood that we won't need a gay ghetto.
39
Typically, as formerly slum or downtrodden neighborhoods become more accessible (e.g. ST LINK light rail service appears), gays move from the previously affordable but now overpriced neighborhoods to the newly available and still cheap neighborhoods, and are eventually followed to the now-hip mixed neighborhood by the straights who want to be hip but mostly aren't.
It's a natural thing in cities.
Want to get with the curve? Move to Rainier Valley.
It's a natural thing in cities.
Want to get with the curve? Move to Rainier Valley.
40
I'm not sure why there's this misapprehension that gays can't afford the condos. I lived in SF for a long time and the residents of the Castro had some of the most disposable income in the city. Great job, no kids = lots of income. The Castro had all the great shops and restaurants.
Maybe Capitol Hill is losing some of its seedy glamour but to imply that gentrification pushes out homos is a little misguided. The Castro in SF is totally gentrified. Gay-gentrified.
And BTW - if I'm not mistaken -- because I don't spend a ton of time in SF anymore -- there's still a lot of Queer culture/community in the Castro, even though it's gentrified. So I think the whole argument that gentrification kills community or gayness is just so much fairydust. IMHO.
Maybe Capitol Hill is losing some of its seedy glamour but to imply that gentrification pushes out homos is a little misguided. The Castro in SF is totally gentrified. Gay-gentrified.
And BTW - if I'm not mistaken -- because I don't spend a ton of time in SF anymore -- there's still a lot of Queer culture/community in the Castro, even though it's gentrified. So I think the whole argument that gentrification kills community or gayness is just so much fairydust. IMHO.
41
"queer spaces" happen. They aren't zoned. Trying to preserve a "gay neighborhood" gets you the equivalent of Little Italy in Manhattan, or Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco: Good for tourists, and that's about it.
I'd much rather see where we bubble up the next time. Georgetown? South Park? White Center?
I'd much rather see where we bubble up the next time. Georgetown? South Park? White Center?
42
You can keep your property cheap, right or wrong, mine is my only asset for retirement down the road so I want it to appreciate as much as possible.
43
@40;
The Castro is still gay mostly because its The Castro... the original motherland for us homos... when I have been there it seems more like a display of gay or a monument to gay rather than a vibrant gay neighborhood.
so, Rainier Valley? taht is the next gayborhood? I thought it was going to be West Seattle?
The Castro is still gay mostly because its The Castro... the original motherland for us homos... when I have been there it seems more like a display of gay or a monument to gay rather than a vibrant gay neighborhood.
so, Rainier Valley? taht is the next gayborhood? I thought it was going to be West Seattle?
45
If he people living on Capitol Hill stop going to all of the new corporate offerings and concentrate on owner/operated businesses and residences all will be well. Complaining about all of the Bellevue or belltown invaders while sipping a $12. cocktail at a chain bar/restaurant doesnt ring true
Most Commented on Slog
-
Your Daily Douchebag by Dominic Holden
-
The Procession for Officer Brenton by Dominic Holden
-
What She Said by Dan Savage
-
SL Letter of the Day: She Needs Oral by Dan Savage
-
Rules for Waitstaff by Bethany Jean Clement
-
What He Said by Dan Savage
-
Titties and Beer by Dan Savage
-
This "Pledge of Allegiance" Drives Me Crazy, Teabaggers! by Paul Constant
-
That's It: R-71 Wins! by Dominic Holden
-
Two Announcements: Dominic Holden to Become News Editor, Eli Sanders to Become Associate Editor by Christopher Frizzelle
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (45) RSS