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News & ArtsMonday, January 12, 2009
Media / ??!! Stay Classy, Gainesville
Posted by David Schmader on Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:30 AM
As the AP reports: Last year a gender-identity provision was added to Gainesville, Florida's anti-discrimination ordinance, allowing the city's transgender residents to use whichever restroom they're most comfortable using.
In response, a group hoping to repeal the new protection via ballot measure has released this amazing TV ad.
"The debate is expected to become noisier as the ballot nears with opponents resorting to more TV ads and campaigns pegged to such slogans as 'Keep Men out of Women's Restrooms and vice versa,'" reports the AP. "Since the ordinance took effect, police have reported no problems in public restrooms stemming from the law."
Thanks for the heads-up, Towleroad.
1
Oh, for chrissake. "Transsexual" means "child molester in a baseball cap". SURE it does. What this really means is "we are terrified by any issue more complex than a pickup truck, durrrrrr, especially imaginary ones."
How many of the people signing this petition have paid for sex from a tranny hooker without realizing it?
How many of the people signing this petition have paid for sex from a tranny hooker without realizing it?
2
Fun Fact: The city of Seattle was the first major city in the country to allow people to go into whatever restroom they're most comfortable in since 1986. Over 100 other jurisdictions now protect these civil rights as well, including the State of Washington, Portland, San Francisco, LA, NYC, Chicago, New Jersey, etc.
PDF: http://www.thetaskforce.org/downloads/re…
We should just go to 100% unisex restrooms, though. I still don't understand why courts ruled to end colored/white segregated restrooms but not women/men segregated restrooms, at least at the state level with our Equal Rights Amendment.
PDF: http://www.thetaskforce.org/downloads/re…
We should just go to 100% unisex restrooms, though. I still don't understand why courts ruled to end colored/white segregated restrooms but not women/men segregated restrooms, at least at the state level with our Equal Rights Amendment.
3
because men's restrooms are a whole lot grosser than women's, so women don't want it.
because men don't want to be watched when they are peeing and the women are waiting in line, so men don't want it.
because men don't want to be watched when they are peeing and the women are waiting in line, so men don't want it.
4
Having been enlisted to "assist" a friend from manually removing the contents of her gin-soaked stomach more than once ("hurk, hold my, hurk, hair, hurk, I, hurk, I hate this"), I can assure you what we call the women's room is often a soul-rending hellscape with a tasteful flower arrangement.
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@ 3, from what I've heard and from living with three women housemates, women's restroom's are way more disgusting than men's.
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@3, I'm sure many people made the same arguments about whites and blacks using the same restrooms in the 1950's.
Lots of college campuses (which are usually the first to implement social change) are starting unisex multiple-person restrooms. Most just change the signs to say something like "restroom" and "restroom with urinals."
http://www.boston.com/news/local/article…
When I lived in the dorms at UW there were men's and women's restrooms with showers in alternating floors, and most people just ignored the signs and used whatever restroom was closest. I remember there was one vocal Christian girl who complained, but the RA's and dorm manager basically ignored her -- the law is on everyone else's side.
Many many businesses have single-person restrooms that are still gender segregated. That makes no sense at all and should be the first to change. I'm pretty sure scientists have found that you won't get cooties by using a restroom that a boy once used.
Also: http://www.safe2pee.org/beta/mapit.php?c…
Lots of college campuses (which are usually the first to implement social change) are starting unisex multiple-person restrooms. Most just change the signs to say something like "restroom" and "restroom with urinals."
http://www.boston.com/news/local/article…
When I lived in the dorms at UW there were men's and women's restrooms with showers in alternating floors, and most people just ignored the signs and used whatever restroom was closest. I remember there was one vocal Christian girl who complained, but the RA's and dorm manager basically ignored her -- the law is on everyone else's side.
Many many businesses have single-person restrooms that are still gender segregated. That makes no sense at all and should be the first to change. I'm pretty sure scientists have found that you won't get cooties by using a restroom that a boy once used.
Also: http://www.safe2pee.org/beta/mapit.php?c…
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@6, yes, having separate men's and women's restrooms (one with primarily urinals and the other with only stalls) is EXACTLY like racism. thanks for pointing that out.
@5, the restroom at your house isn't a "women's restroom," it's your bathroom. i thought it was obvious enough that we were talking about public restrooms that i didn't need to specify. the difference is that women's restroom stalls are primarily used for peeing, whereas since men mostly pee at urinals, their stalls are mostly used for shitting. some people think that's gross and would rather not share. i'd guess that a lot of men still don't want to have to worry about women seeing their dicks while they pee at a urinal, too, but that's speculation, since my pair of X's indicate that i sit to pee.
somebody said why doesn't everything go to unisex. just pointing out a few reasons why people might not want to.
@5, the restroom at your house isn't a "women's restroom," it's your bathroom. i thought it was obvious enough that we were talking about public restrooms that i didn't need to specify. the difference is that women's restroom stalls are primarily used for peeing, whereas since men mostly pee at urinals, their stalls are mostly used for shitting. some people think that's gross and would rather not share. i'd guess that a lot of men still don't want to have to worry about women seeing their dicks while they pee at a urinal, too, but that's speculation, since my pair of X's indicate that i sit to pee.
somebody said why doesn't everything go to unisex. just pointing out a few reasons why people might not want to.
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I've only ever had to clean shit off the walls in a women's restroom, not a men's. Men are more likely to smash their empty glasses in the urinal, though. But you're much more likely to find a pile of several dozen candy wrappers around a women's toilet.
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i think that an important point is that the actual realities of whose restrooms are grosser probably don't matter, since there probably aren't *that* many people with real comparative experience. as long as enough people THINK that the alternative (unisex) would be worse than what they have now, they'd rather not, and the situation will only be changed by fiat, not by vote. (no in highway rest stops, yes in places like colleges in new england, who like to try things for shits and giggles.)
11
The important thing to remember is the non-discrimination law ISN'T about bathrooms.
It's about protecting everyone from being fired or kicked out of their house because of their gender expression OR sexual orientation. By continuing to focus on "the bathroom issue," we're really just playing into the fears and confusion of the easily-swayed Christian populace. We've seen this before... it's completely serious and totally successful.
Now that marriage has become less of a rallying point for the Religious Right, they are turning to trans fear to get their money and their political power. And the problem for progressive folks is we aren't sure how we feel about transgender people. Make up your mind while you still can.
If we don't help places like Gainesville... they'll learn which tactics work and take their dog-and-pony show on the road.
http://www.notmyshower.net
It's about protecting everyone from being fired or kicked out of their house because of their gender expression OR sexual orientation. By continuing to focus on "the bathroom issue," we're really just playing into the fears and confusion of the easily-swayed Christian populace. We've seen this before... it's completely serious and totally successful.
Now that marriage has become less of a rallying point for the Religious Right, they are turning to trans fear to get their money and their political power. And the problem for progressive folks is we aren't sure how we feel about transgender people. Make up your mind while you still can.
If we don't help places like Gainesville... they'll learn which tactics work and take their dog-and-pony show on the road.
http://www.notmyshower.net
12
I'll be damned if I have to put up with a straight Larry Craig's wide stance while I'm minding my own business in the restroom. If we ever do have unisex bathrooms, those stalls better be replace with floor to ceiling stalls, with no cracks between the doors.
13
@7, Airplanes and many other spaces have unisex single person restrooms and I have never heard complaints, so there isn't an issue with sharing a restroom that a boy has pooped in. Is there any argument for maintaining segregated single-person restrooms elsewhere?
For urinals, I doubt many men glance at each other's penises. For men who are worried about this, I'm sure having a gay man look at their dick is worse than having a woman steal a glance at their dick -- should we have segregated gay restrooms?
I wasn't saying you are racist, I am just saying "boys are gross, they should have separate bathrooms" is essentially the same argument as "blacks are gross, they should have separate bathrooms."
I understand why people don't want unisex restrooms -- tradition. Like other traditions that are harmful and make no sense, this one will change too; the only question is when.
For urinals, I doubt many men glance at each other's penises. For men who are worried about this, I'm sure having a gay man look at their dick is worse than having a woman steal a glance at their dick -- should we have segregated gay restrooms?
I wasn't saying you are racist, I am just saying "boys are gross, they should have separate bathrooms" is essentially the same argument as "blacks are gross, they should have separate bathrooms."
I understand why people don't want unisex restrooms -- tradition. Like other traditions that are harmful and make no sense, this one will change too; the only question is when.
14
Because being enlightened at a minimum means allowing pervert adult males to choose to go potty with young girls, if the choose.
15
We should absolutely make support for unisex bathrooms a litmus test for Obama cabinet members and Court appointments. And fight to the death for our rights. That would be the smart thing to do. Sure, it would be nice to marry my fellow someday but is life really worth living if I can't shit in the ladies room?
exactly.
exactly.
16
To be honest, I don't even want to be in the room with myself when I'm pinching a loaf, let alone a bunch of ladies.
17
Will the 1960's and 1970's arguments ever die?
The conservatives used the same arguments all over the South to scare ignorant people about the prospects of all genders and ages using the same restrooms when the Equal Rights Amendment was first defeated. The South's xenophobia knows no bounds.
Where fear and ignorance abound radical religions prosper.
Unisex restrooms with lockable, private individual stalls and a common, shared lavatory space would work pretty well for most people and most venues. If you want to segregate bathrooms, it makes more sense to do so based on age, adults and children, than it does to segregate genders.
As to the previous comments that claimed men's restrooms were worse than women's restrooms, you really should manage or maintain a sports or entertainment venue before you make such poorly informed assumptions about all restrooms. And, in regards to men not wanting to share their restrooms, again, you must be speaking for a group of easily frightened men that I don't know. Having managed the facilities for several Lilith Fair concerts, I can tell you that men generally took it in stride when women marched past the urinals to use the stalls. In fact, the only complaints we ever received at those concerts was from women about having to share the MEN's restrooms with the MEN.
The conservatives used the same arguments all over the South to scare ignorant people about the prospects of all genders and ages using the same restrooms when the Equal Rights Amendment was first defeated. The South's xenophobia knows no bounds.
Where fear and ignorance abound radical religions prosper.
Unisex restrooms with lockable, private individual stalls and a common, shared lavatory space would work pretty well for most people and most venues. If you want to segregate bathrooms, it makes more sense to do so based on age, adults and children, than it does to segregate genders.
As to the previous comments that claimed men's restrooms were worse than women's restrooms, you really should manage or maintain a sports or entertainment venue before you make such poorly informed assumptions about all restrooms. And, in regards to men not wanting to share their restrooms, again, you must be speaking for a group of easily frightened men that I don't know. Having managed the facilities for several Lilith Fair concerts, I can tell you that men generally took it in stride when women marched past the urinals to use the stalls. In fact, the only complaints we ever received at those concerts was from women about having to share the MEN's restrooms with the MEN.
18
14: Sorry to feed a troll, but what "pervert adult males" are you referring to? If it's a blanket summation of any and all transgendered folk, as I fear it is, go fuck yourself.
(Everyone else: I'm swamped with work, but if some intrepid Slog citizen wanted to Google the statistics regarding the number of sex crimes against children perpetrated by transgendered people versus those perpetrated by set-gendered people, then cram them down #14's throat, I'd love you forever....)
(Everyone else: I'm swamped with work, but if some intrepid Slog citizen wanted to Google the statistics regarding the number of sex crimes against children perpetrated by transgendered people versus those perpetrated by set-gendered people, then cram them down #14's throat, I'd love you forever....)
19
@14, Kind of like adult pervert males who prefer young boys get to potty with young boys? Or, adult pervert males can legally potty with young girls anywhere in our state right now? Do you seriously think this is a major problem?
@15, Like I said at #2, men's and ladies room signs have been legally ornamental in Seattle for the past 22+ years. Marriage and restrooms are the two major legal areas where there is legal gender segregation -- both have the same solution (ending gender discrimination).
@11, This is about workplace discrimination but it's about restroom discrimination as well. It may sound like a trivial issue to people who have never had to deal with it (kind of like gay marriage may sound like a trivial issue to some), but it is a VERY major problem for people who are affected. MOST trans people have been harassed or assaulted for using public restrooms, at least early in transition, and many can't use public restrooms at all. Imagine if restrooms had signs that say "no gays" and it would be similar to the problem many trans people face.
Remember the story about the trans men illegally being harassed and kicked out of Pacific Place by security just for wanting to pee?
http://www.livevideo.com/video/35F4C29B3…
http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/peei…
@15, Like I said at #2, men's and ladies room signs have been legally ornamental in Seattle for the past 22+ years. Marriage and restrooms are the two major legal areas where there is legal gender segregation -- both have the same solution (ending gender discrimination).
@11, This is about workplace discrimination but it's about restroom discrimination as well. It may sound like a trivial issue to people who have never had to deal with it (kind of like gay marriage may sound like a trivial issue to some), but it is a VERY major problem for people who are affected. MOST trans people have been harassed or assaulted for using public restrooms, at least early in transition, and many can't use public restrooms at all. Imagine if restrooms had signs that say "no gays" and it would be similar to the problem many trans people face.
Remember the story about the trans men illegally being harassed and kicked out of Pacific Place by security just for wanting to pee?
http://www.livevideo.com/video/35F4C29B3…
http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/peei…
20
Sex crimes committed by the transgendered? Has that EVER happened? I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Sex crimes are of course almost without exception committed by trusted people close to their victims -- priests, scout leaders, or most likely close family members. The bathroom your daughter is most likely to get molested in is the one in your own home.
Sex crimes are of course almost without exception committed by trusted people close to their victims -- priests, scout leaders, or most likely close family members. The bathroom your daughter is most likely to get molested in is the one in your own home.
23
This is the kind of issue that puts Republicans in office so we all have to suffer.
Thanks guys...sorry, 'ladies'.
Twig and berries....
Thanks guys...sorry, 'ladies'.
Twig and berries....
24
I wonder, is actually possible to legally prosecute someone for entering the "wrong" restroom anywhere in the United States right now? Isn't all of that informational labeling instead of enforceable rules?
(Yes, yes, it's not just possible but prevalent to have heckling, serious interpersonal problems, police hassling and hate crimes associated with entering the "wrong" restroom, but I'm curious about the current state of actual prosecutable crimes and misdemeanors.)
(Yes, yes, it's not just possible but prevalent to have heckling, serious interpersonal problems, police hassling and hate crimes associated with entering the "wrong" restroom, but I'm curious about the current state of actual prosecutable crimes and misdemeanors.)
25
@13: "I doubt many men glance at each other's penises."
Seriously?
I'm guessing you haven't spent much quality urinal time...Copping a look is what boys do.
Seriously?
I'm guessing you haven't spent much quality urinal time...Copping a look is what boys do.
26
Ok, so given that in places like washington state (and now florida), transgendered individuals can now use whatever restroom they want, how would multi-stall unisex restrooms help them?
This is not a rhetorical question, I'd like to hear the logic explicitly traced. Because I've never personally known any transgendered people. And I'm not coming up with a problem in my head with a person using the restroom designated for the gender they are living as.
This is not a rhetorical question, I'd like to hear the logic explicitly traced. Because I've never personally known any transgendered people. And I'm not coming up with a problem in my head with a person using the restroom designated for the gender they are living as.
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@25, that's why I like to sneak a big handful of ground beef into my hand when I step up to the urinals. Scares the crap out of 'em.
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@26 Transgender and otherwise gender non-conforming people often have to deal with people staring at them, asking them to leave, etc., if their gender presentation is at all different from the norm. There was a woman kicked out of the bathroom in a lesbian bar in NY if I remember right because people thought she was a man. Transgender women who do not "pass" 100% are often given a hard time in restrooms. Transgender men often feel unsafe in men's rooms. Unisex bathrooms would solve some of these problems. There can also be single sex AND unisex bathrooms, like the family/handicapped restrooms available in some places, so people can do whatever they are most comfortable with.
29
Let me spell it out for you,
David Dickwad Schmader.
so you need not fear any longer:
I refer to ANY adult pervert male who wishes to go to the little girls room, as Washington State now allows. I said nothing about transgendered.
How about we google for statistics about any and all assuming know-it-all shit-for-brains assmonkey douchnozzel pricks and you could shove them up your ass?
David Dickwad Schmader.
so you need not fear any longer:
I refer to ANY adult pervert male who wishes to go to the little girls room, as Washington State now allows. I said nothing about transgendered.
How about we google for statistics about any and all assuming know-it-all shit-for-brains assmonkey douchnozzel pricks and you could shove them up your ass?
30
We had unisex bathrooms at college 15 years ago. (why yes it was New England liberal school). That said while it was totally normal there when I go to work I don't want to have to exchange awkward words with my boss as we go in to pee, crap or whatever. The idea that he'd be giving me tasks while I'm...um...busy is horrifying, not least because the bathroom is the place I escape to when I need a moment away from all that.
I don't care which bathroom a Transperson uses. They should have the right to pee in safety just like the rest of us. Those folks in Florida are (totally unsuprisingly) morons.
I don't care which bathroom a Transperson uses. They should have the right to pee in safety just like the rest of us. Those folks in Florida are (totally unsuprisingly) morons.
31
Oh hum, and the Gay activists will create a PSA that asks, "can't we all just get along?" Or "WE love you why don't you love us?" One hopes the GLBT activists would get bold and hard hitting, but when you have a limp wrist, swinging and hitting is just not an option.
32
I make my living as a janitor.
while women's restrooms are cleaner than men's 90% of the time, the remaining 10% more than makes up the difference.
while women's restrooms are cleaner than men's 90% of the time, the remaining 10% more than makes up the difference.
33
Don't let the conservatives get away with presenting this issue as if it were only about bathrooms.
These laws concern employment, housing, access to credit, and any other sort of public accommodations such as stores, restaurants, movie theatres, whatever. I hope it applies to health care, also.
Furthermore, it protects everyone, not just trans people, e.g., natal women who are hassled for using the women's room if someone doesn't like their appearance. This sort of legislation protects anyone from harassment or abuse because they don't fit someone else's idea of how masculine or feminine they should be.
[And by the way, the first city to have this sort of protection was Minneapolis in 1975, followed by Champaign and then Urbana IL. See: http://www.transgenderlaw.org/ndlaws/ind…]
These laws concern employment, housing, access to credit, and any other sort of public accommodations such as stores, restaurants, movie theatres, whatever. I hope it applies to health care, also.
Furthermore, it protects everyone, not just trans people, e.g., natal women who are hassled for using the women's room if someone doesn't like their appearance. This sort of legislation protects anyone from harassment or abuse because they don't fit someone else's idea of how masculine or feminine they should be.
[And by the way, the first city to have this sort of protection was Minneapolis in 1975, followed by Champaign and then Urbana IL. See: http://www.transgenderlaw.org/ndlaws/ind…]
34
The organization that's pushing for re-legalized discrimination based on gender identity and expression in Gainesville FL is http://citizensforgoodpublicpolicy.org
You can let them know what you think at
contact@citizensforgoodpublicpolicy.org
Please be polite. I think that rudeness and obscenities would be counterproductive. And yes, I recognize that there's nothing polite about what they're doing. But as a trans person, I'm interested in what works, not in what provides momentary catharsis.
You can let them know what you think at
contact@citizensforgoodpublicpolicy.org
Please be polite. I think that rudeness and obscenities would be counterproductive. And yes, I recognize that there's nothing polite about what they're doing. But as a trans person, I'm interested in what works, not in what provides momentary catharsis.
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