Sunday, January 11, 2009
Politics Bush Admits to Personally Authorizing Torture
Posted by Anthony Hecht on Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 12:37 PM
Think Progress watches Brit Hume interview George Bush on Fox New Sunday so you don't have to.
Watch as Bush casually smirks his way through an explanation of how he authorized the use of torture on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
Having no morals whatsoever, Bush figures the legal questions are the end of the debate. If you can get a couple of pro-torture lawyers to come up with a legal argument for doing it, it's good and right altogether. That's exactly how Jesus decided moral issues, right ? Bush isn't interested in whether these techniques are moral, or even if they work.
... according to a former senior C.I.A. official, who read all the interrogation reports on K.S.M., "90 percent of it was total fucking bullshit." A former Pentagon analyst adds: "K.S.M. produced no actionable intelligence. He was trying to tell us how stupid we were."
That smirk alone should be enough to convict the fucker of war crimes.
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1
And you forgot that Obama just wants to look forward and not focus on the past crimes of the Bush years.
Now THAT'S change we can believe in!!
Now THAT'S change we can believe in!!
3
What intelligence did we gain? What lives? When will the blanket-statements no longer be enough to excuse ANY behavior whatsoever?
Who told him it was legal? Why did they claim it was legal? Was it legal?
These are such basic lines of questioning, yet nothing follows. Nothing.
Our "forefathers" would be tying themselves up into pretzels while rolling in their graves.
Who told him it was legal? Why did they claim it was legal? Was it legal?
These are such basic lines of questioning, yet nothing follows. Nothing.
Our "forefathers" would be tying themselves up into pretzels while rolling in their graves.
5
Usually when I see or, particularly, hear W. it kind of makes my stomach churn. But watching that, yeah, a bit stomach churning toward the end, but mostly I just felt incredibly sad for him. Here's a man who was obviously in way over his head. I don't know that he ever really enjoyed being President and I wonder if he would choose to do it, if he had the choice all over again.
6
MG you have that backwards. The rule has always been that it's OK to torture someone if you can't, or don't care to, properly pronounce his or her name.
8
Anthony,
You're not actually a writer,
are you...
Just some asshole blowing his brain and spewing whatever falls out. Right?
At least no trees were harmed putting this drivel out...
You're not actually a writer,
are you...
Just some asshole blowing his brain and spewing whatever falls out. Right?
At least no trees were harmed putting this drivel out...
9
All DOJ attorneys should prosecute criminals when they have a good case. Torture is no different, except for universal jurisdiction, perhaps (which would allow a US prosecutor in say, Houston, Texas, to prosecute a torturer who lives there, even if the torture was ordered and committed somewhere else).
Some say let the torturers get a pass, let's not rile up the right wing, we have to save Obama's "political capital" for legislative fights. But it's legally wrong to make prosecutorial decisions for political reasons. And it's politically an error to empower the pro-torture party to be able to say the Democrats think the torture was okay, since they're okay with not prosecuting the torturers.
Some say let the torturers get a pass, let's not rile up the right wing, we have to save Obama's "political capital" for legislative fights. But it's legally wrong to make prosecutorial decisions for political reasons. And it's politically an error to empower the pro-torture party to be able to say the Democrats think the torture was okay, since they're okay with not prosecuting the torturers.
10
Doesn't anyone remember this same guy mocking Karla Faye Tucker for pleading for his clemency as Governor of Texas, a decade ago, in a way that even shocked conservative interviewer Tucker Carlson (Bush later tried to deny he'd done it or that Carlson had 'misinterpreted' him)?
[quote]In the weeks before the execution, Bush says, "A number of protesters came to Austin to demand clemency for Karla Faye Tucker." "Did you meet with any of them?" I ask. Bush whips around and stares at me. "No, I didn't meet with any of them", he snaps, as though I've just asked the dumbest, most offensive question ever posed. "I didn't meet with Larry King either when he came down for it. I watched his interview with Tucker, though. He asked her real difficult questions like, 'What would you say to Governor Bush?'" "What was her answer?" I wonder. "'Please,'" Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, "'don't kill me.'" I must have looked shocked — ridiculing the pleas of a condemned prisoner who has since been executed seems odd and cruel — because he immediately stops smirking.[/quote]
http://www.slate.com/id/2131451/
BTW, the exchange between Larry King and Karla Faye Tucker that then-Governor Bush was fuming about for a year after he'd denied her mercy never actually happened, so Bush was doing an impression of a TV moment he apparently also "misremembered".
Also worth mentioning is that Bush's advisor on clemency/death penalty legal issues was none other than Alberto Gonzales.
[quote]In the weeks before the execution, Bush says, "A number of protesters came to Austin to demand clemency for Karla Faye Tucker." "Did you meet with any of them?" I ask. Bush whips around and stares at me. "No, I didn't meet with any of them", he snaps, as though I've just asked the dumbest, most offensive question ever posed. "I didn't meet with Larry King either when he came down for it. I watched his interview with Tucker, though. He asked her real difficult questions like, 'What would you say to Governor Bush?'" "What was her answer?" I wonder. "'Please,'" Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, "'don't kill me.'" I must have looked shocked — ridiculing the pleas of a condemned prisoner who has since been executed seems odd and cruel — because he immediately stops smirking.[/quote]
http://www.slate.com/id/2131451/
BTW, the exchange between Larry King and Karla Faye Tucker that then-Governor Bush was fuming about for a year after he'd denied her mercy never actually happened, so Bush was doing an impression of a TV moment he apparently also "misremembered".
Also worth mentioning is that Bush's advisor on clemency/death penalty legal issues was none other than Alberto Gonzales.
13
Just nine more days.
In a way I'm going to miss seeing the little number on the cover of the paper Stranger counting the days until the motherfucker leaves office...
In a way I'm going to miss seeing the little number on the cover of the paper Stranger counting the days until the motherfucker leaves office...
14
Has it been established that President Bush is not the most eloquent of blokes?
#3, to answer some of your follow-ups: DOJ attorney John Yoo penned the infamous torture memo that set forth the legal arguments upon which the administration relied. Enjoy:
http://news.findlaw.com/nytimes/docs/doj…
#3, to answer some of your follow-ups: DOJ attorney John Yoo penned the infamous torture memo that set forth the legal arguments upon which the administration relied. Enjoy:
http://news.findlaw.com/nytimes/docs/doj…
15
Torture does not produce useful information, but it does produce useful terror in the population subjected to random interrogations. If your goal is to govern by intimidation (i.e. state sponsored terrorism) then torture is essential.
Asking them questions between electric shocks is just to keep the inquisitors amused. It gets to be too much like assembly line work if you don't get to ask them stupid questions each time they cough out all the water in their lungs.
Asking them questions between electric shocks is just to keep the inquisitors amused. It gets to be too much like assembly line work if you don't get to ask them stupid questions each time they cough out all the water in their lungs.
16
Shouldn't torture be defined by the culture of the POW? In the middle East, you get your arms cut off if your elbow accidently grazes the veil of a virgin (or something). The stuff we did at Guantamano is stuff they must laugh at when they get out of the hokey.
Here's what an Al Qaeda ex-con would sound like on the phone: "Yeah, and then they pushed me underwater for a few minutes...yeah...I was like laughing and bubbles came out my nose and shit...they thought it was torture...shit, I've done worst crap than that to my baby sister...yeah..."
Here's what an Al Qaeda ex-con would sound like on the phone: "Yeah, and then they pushed me underwater for a few minutes...yeah...I was like laughing and bubbles came out my nose and shit...they thought it was torture...shit, I've done worst crap than that to my baby sister...yeah..."
17
I'm against torture and want to believe it's useless. "90% of it is bullshit" sounds good, but what about the other 10%? If even get one tenth or one thousandth of one percent was useful they're going torture.
18
Somewhat naively, I can't believe it's 2009 and the United States openly tortures people.
United States = epic FAIL.
United States = epic FAIL.
19
#16: That's why we have extraordinary rendition. The U.S. can maintain the moral high ground (arguable, I know), yet subject suspects to torture of a magnitude that more likely will command the suspects' full attention (thanks, Egypt!).
21
Why is this man not in prison? Why? Oh, yeah, except for Dennis Kucinich, Democrats in office are too f--king cowardly to impeach Bush. That's why.
22
@17: "what about the other 10%?"
The problem is that you usually can't tell the wheat from the chaff...When they do a massive information dump, you don't know what's real and what's fake and you have to expend all sorts of intelligence resources to figure it out.
The problem is that you usually can't tell the wheat from the chaff...When they do a massive information dump, you don't know what's real and what's fake and you have to expend all sorts of intelligence resources to figure it out.
23
Luckily for us, any US citizen can petition the Hague to indict the war criminals for war crimes.
Keep that in mind when you decide to go In Bruges and then head over to the Hague later.
Keep that in mind when you decide to go In Bruges and then head over to the Hague later.
24
So either Bush is lying or that CIA official is lying about whether KSM provided info that lead to averting an attack. I tend to believe presidents over disgruntled CIA officials, since they're the ones that know that historians will be evaluating them in every detail.
27
How can this interview be the subject of a discussion? The failed President can wiggle around the facts all he wants, but in the hearts of many he is a war criminal and should face judgment. The GOP simps who posted defensives above have been eating too much shit for too long Anyone watching the chimp in his repetitive farewell addresses must supress the urge to vomit. His explanations on Katrina and Iraq and the Surge are wierder and wierder.
28
I say let the World Court indict him. Then we can argue about whether we will actually really turn him over for trial.
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