Saturday, January 10, 2009
City / Homo All Protests Are Valuable Except for the Ones That Aren’t
Posted by Dominic Holden on Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 3:10 PM
Just before noon, about 100 people chanting gay-rights slogans began marching from Capitol Hill to a rally at Westlake Center. At the front of the procession, two men carried a sign—fashioned from a sheet and adhered to two sticks with black tape—spray painted with the sponsor organization’s name: “Queer Ally Coalition.” Another banner for the International Socialist Organization followed in the rear.
It was part of a national day of action in 100 cities, organized by Jointheimpact.com, to protest the Defense of Marriage Act, which prevents the federal government from recognizing same-sex marriages. The goal, according to a mass email, was to gather 1,000,000 petition signatures asking Barack Obama to repeal DOMA and show him "how vast our numbers actually are." Here's a picture of the entire march:
Eli Steffen, a member of QAC, said he was “excited for the turnout” and thinks 200 people at the event signed the petition.
“It is fewer people than I would have anticipated,” said Travis McBurney, who runs a wedding-planning company with his with his partner, Jesse Brix.
If the anti-Prop 8 protests in November marked the gay-rights movement’s resurgence—drawing roughly 10,000 people into the streets of Seattle—the march today looked like the movement’s rapid fall. What happened to the other 9,900 supporters? And where were the folks behind November’s successful march, such as Kyler Powell, and Equal Rights Washington?
“Equal Rights Washington didn’t play much of a role,” says Powell, currently an event consultant for ERW, who was at the rally to speak. And he believes the march coordinated by QAC wasn’t beneficial. “The last thing we need are more organizations,” he says. “It shows division within the community.”
But considering this is a national day of action, some group is bound to organize a march. If ERW wants the event to be a success—or even avoid a spectacular embarrassment—then ERW needs to plan it, or provide the resources to make sure it’s not a flop. Likewise, the national organizer, Jointheimpact.com, needs to make sure the groups that volunteer to produce a protest know how to make the event a success. The function of a march and rally is to demonstrate the movement’s gravity in numbers. That requires excellent promotion, credible speakers, banners with a clear message—and the wisdom to not hold an event if you can't draw a big crowd.
“We decided to let every organization have a voice,” says Amy Balliett, founder of Jointheimpact.com. “Queer Ally Coalition wanted to plan this.” While allowing upstart activists to try their hand at organizing is valuable—it’s how movements get new leaders—those new organizations need guidance. ERW, Jointheimpact.com, and other leaders in Seattle’s gay-rights community need to direct this movement. Ragtag events, where the greatest presence is the International Socialist Organization (a parasitic group that shows up at every damn event to sell sanctimonious books), will cause the resurging gay-rights movement to atrophy and die—at least in the public eye.
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2
People quickly figure out that chanting slogans in city streets does little to affect politics once their initial rage has worn off.
5
i think everyone was hung-over from protesting ricin poisoning. anyways, everyone knows the only true form of protest is the pub crawl.
7
I probably would have gone if there had been more notice and any cheerleading in Slog posts, honestly.
8
The Campus Socialists had a big presence at the SF protests in November, and they definitely expected to leech up new supporters. It was creepy.
But I think these lame protests are, in a way, productive -- they keep the worst of the organizers busy, so that the grownups can focus on actions that actually matter.
But I think these lame protests are, in a way, productive -- they keep the worst of the organizers busy, so that the grownups can focus on actions that actually matter.
9
@7, totally.
I didn't hear about this. I might have gone if it'd been better publicized. I'm glad the people who turned took the time to show up.
I didn't hear about this. I might have gone if it'd been better publicized. I'm glad the people who turned took the time to show up.
11
I'm glad The Stranger is back to being willing to criticize gay rights groups again. I sympathize with the desire to be cheerleaders at the last big hoo ha, but that's not what is really needed.
Might I suggest looking to PETA for tactical lessons? No? Okie dokie. I understand.
Might I suggest looking to PETA for tactical lessons? No? Okie dokie. I understand.
12
Wait, I'm confused. The Stranger offers nonexistent coverage, the big groups (ERW, HRC) do next to nothing to organize (yet are allowed to speak from the stage), and the blame and ridicule falls on the people actually trying to start a grassroots movement (and the ones, like the ISO, who show up in solidarity)?
There are lots of reasons this march wasn't bigger, but what it actually did was encourage people to get involved - something the bigger groups don't do in any way more significant than giving money.
What we need is exactly a group like Queer Ally Coalition, not dismissive blog posts.
There are lots of reasons this march wasn't bigger, but what it actually did was encourage people to get involved - something the bigger groups don't do in any way more significant than giving money.
What we need is exactly a group like Queer Ally Coalition, not dismissive blog posts.
13
Thank god the International Socialist Organization was there. Otherwise this group would have looked really pathetic.
14
Gosh golly, where's all that anti-Warren queer-mobilizing rage I keep hearing about? Or was there a sale at Nordstroms today?
(And I was actually one of those sad folks there marching today out of sheer respect for the issue. Appreciate all the sympathy.)
Anyone wanna paw through the Slog archives and compare the number of mentions about the Nov 15 march to the number of mentions about today's?
Frankly, how about we pick an issue that would really resonate right now? Like, say, federal job discrimination via ENDA--polling already shows it with majority support in all parts of the country (even the red parts), and with the economy in the toilet, folks can understand the terror of losing one's job over any reason. The other upside? We get ENDA, and we finally establish a protected status class for sexual orientation on the Federal level for the first time, from which can flow all other sorts of rights and "privileges."
Here's an assignment. Everyone ask 10 people: Is it against federal law to fire someone for being gay? I bet you more than half answer, "Of course." Then explain that, no, it isn't illegal, but should be.
How about we pick a battle we can win, right now, and then build on the victory and move forward on Don't Ask/Tell/Pursue, and Marriage Equality.
(And I was actually one of those sad folks there marching today out of sheer respect for the issue. Appreciate all the sympathy.)
Anyone wanna paw through the Slog archives and compare the number of mentions about the Nov 15 march to the number of mentions about today's?
Frankly, how about we pick an issue that would really resonate right now? Like, say, federal job discrimination via ENDA--polling already shows it with majority support in all parts of the country (even the red parts), and with the economy in the toilet, folks can understand the terror of losing one's job over any reason. The other upside? We get ENDA, and we finally establish a protected status class for sexual orientation on the Federal level for the first time, from which can flow all other sorts of rights and "privileges."
Here's an assignment. Everyone ask 10 people: Is it against federal law to fire someone for being gay? I bet you more than half answer, "Of course." Then explain that, no, it isn't illegal, but should be.
How about we pick a battle we can win, right now, and then build on the victory and move forward on Don't Ask/Tell/Pursue, and Marriage Equality.
16
7 and 9
Were you waiting for the Stranger to give you a wake up call? Hold your hand? Brush your teeth for you?
Here's your announcement. So NOW what's your excuse for not going????????
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
Were you waiting for the Stranger to give you a wake up call? Hold your hand? Brush your teeth for you?
Here's your announcement. So NOW what's your excuse for not going????????
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
17
Protesting is the most patriotic thing you can do in America. And thinking your protest will cause any change is the dumbest thing you can do in America. If a gay tree falls in the forest and no one is around, The Stranger will still hear it.
18
The challenge for Gay folk is taking marching orders from other Gay folk. Small GLBTQ groups don't always want to march when ERW says March. So we have what we saw today, weak and ineffective marches.
GLBT folk are still in that big learning curve of social activism because it's a whole new generation of Gay folk that know nothing of what has taken place as recently as 5 years ago. The new Gay folk are re-inventing the wheel and they'll be dammed if they're gunna let some 40-50 yr old Gay person tell them what's already been done.
GLBT folk are still in that big learning curve of social activism because it's a whole new generation of Gay folk that know nothing of what has taken place as recently as 5 years ago. The new Gay folk are re-inventing the wheel and they'll be dammed if they're gunna let some 40-50 yr old Gay person tell them what's already been done.
22
@17 I'd agree with you if there weren't a practical political action taking place today at the rally and march--the collection of signatures (real ones, not those superfluous online ones) to deliver to our new president. This petition is being circulated at all of the marches taking place today, with the goal of a million signatures.
Obama has already agree to accept the petition signatures personally on Jan 21.
I know it's a purely symbolic act and I await the wrath of the pooh-pooh Slog Snark-squad--fire away. But it might have been nice to have added 8,000 from Seattle instead of 200 today.
Obama has already agree to accept the petition signatures personally on Jan 21.
I know it's a purely symbolic act and I await the wrath of the pooh-pooh Slog Snark-squad--fire away. But it might have been nice to have added 8,000 from Seattle instead of 200 today.
23
San Diego's march today was much bigger, around 800, though not as big as the Nov. 15 march, which drew 25,000. Here's a story I did on today's demo.
http://wocknerwire.com/2009/01/todays-an…
http://wocknerwire.com/2009/01/todays-an…
24
@ 18, I think there is another powerful factor at work: young gays and lesbians are not seeing the change they expect through the tactics of groups like HRC, who are willing to drop less mainstream elements of the LGBTQ community to get legislation passed - legislation which then doesn't even get passed anyway? And DOMA was written into law by many of the same people these groups want us to lobby!
So great, the big groups have lots of money and big mailing lists. They also have lots of paid staff. That staff needs to get paid, and the rest of the money gets dumped solely into lobbying efforts.
How can these groups focus on getting more people involved in a substantive way, when they are worried about generating money to sustain themselves? A fat load of good an enormous mailing list does you, when you never involve people in a way that lets them participate in a meaningful, democratic way.
So great, the big groups have lots of money and big mailing lists. They also have lots of paid staff. That staff needs to get paid, and the rest of the money gets dumped solely into lobbying efforts.
How can these groups focus on getting more people involved in a substantive way, when they are worried about generating money to sustain themselves? A fat load of good an enormous mailing list does you, when you never involve people in a way that lets them participate in a meaningful, democratic way.
25
#14 for the win. He has a valid point. As a gay man, I care more about the economy which not only my job, but everyone's, who gay, bi, and straight (especially, you retail queens, in particular those in your late 20, 30s, 40s who are worrying about your jobs) depends on, than about gay marriage at this point in time.
While the economy's tanking, we're (us gays) acting like a bunch of little kids pulling on the shirts of those putting out a huge kitchen fire before it consumes the whole house (the US) and the neighborhood (the world). Let's stop acting like a bunch of little kids, grow up and help try to fix the economy by pressing on issues like where and how the bail-out money's being used and press on issues like equal treatment in the workplace so the only ones left working are not str8 WASPs.
So for the point, I do care about the rights of being fairly treated and having the same rights as str8, but the right that i'm concerned with the most is equal treatment in the workplace rather than equal treatment at the wedding alter. If I can be fired for being gay, then how am I going to afford that wedding I want. Also, has anyone done their math yet to show to the government that a gay married double income no kids (DINK) couple are taxed more than 2 single people who are in the same household. If we do the math and show that the federal, state, and municipal governments can make more money taxing more married couples, if the GLBT community's allowed to have a federally recognized marriage when you count the # of gay and lesbians in married or in domestic partnerships, then I'm sure those that are against gay marriage will shut up when they see the tax incentives for communities around the country that are having budget crises. Also most DINK gay and lesbian couples make more than most DINK str8 couples.
So again #14 for the win. Let's focus on job protections for gays and show how much in tax revenue the government has to gain from gay marriage.
More...
While the economy's tanking, we're (us gays) acting like a bunch of little kids pulling on the shirts of those putting out a huge kitchen fire before it consumes the whole house (the US) and the neighborhood (the world). Let's stop acting like a bunch of little kids, grow up and help try to fix the economy by pressing on issues like where and how the bail-out money's being used and press on issues like equal treatment in the workplace so the only ones left working are not str8 WASPs.
So for the point, I do care about the rights of being fairly treated and having the same rights as str8, but the right that i'm concerned with the most is equal treatment in the workplace rather than equal treatment at the wedding alter. If I can be fired for being gay, then how am I going to afford that wedding I want. Also, has anyone done their math yet to show to the government that a gay married double income no kids (DINK) couple are taxed more than 2 single people who are in the same household. If we do the math and show that the federal, state, and municipal governments can make more money taxing more married couples, if the GLBT community's allowed to have a federally recognized marriage when you count the # of gay and lesbians in married or in domestic partnerships, then I'm sure those that are against gay marriage will shut up when they see the tax incentives for communities around the country that are having budget crises. Also most DINK gay and lesbian couples make more than most DINK str8 couples.
So again #14 for the win. Let's focus on job protections for gays and show how much in tax revenue the government has to gain from gay marriage.
26
@20, congratulations. Now go find out how incredibly out of touch most folks--gay and straight--actually are about the civil rights they think they already have.
Not everyone serves in the military. Not everyone's gonna get married. Nearly everyone needs a job.
How about activism for something that will protect the most people--and help create the legal foundation for future legislative protections?
Not everyone serves in the military. Not everyone's gonna get married. Nearly everyone needs a job.
How about activism for something that will protect the most people--and help create the legal foundation for future legislative protections?
27
Domenick and Sargon, you are both spot on.
And those Socialist Worker drones are the dreariest mofos on the planet.
And those Socialist Worker drones are the dreariest mofos on the planet.
28
@26 and @25: This is exactly the type of conversation we should be having! Thanks for your comments.
The Queer Ally Coalition is unique in that it invites everyone - straight or gay - to participate not just in events but in planning the direction of future activity. Every Friday at 7pm they meet at Vivace on Broadway (near the Deluxe), and all are welcome.
Marriage Equality is just one component of the second-class status handed to GLBTQ people in this country. We should fight that in whatever way makes sense, and whoever wants to lend their voice and work is welcome.
The Queer Ally Coalition is unique in that it invites everyone - straight or gay - to participate not just in events but in planning the direction of future activity. Every Friday at 7pm they meet at Vivace on Broadway (near the Deluxe), and all are welcome.
Marriage Equality is just one component of the second-class status handed to GLBTQ people in this country. We should fight that in whatever way makes sense, and whoever wants to lend their voice and work is welcome.
29
@27-- The Queer Socialistas might be bore you, but they reliably show up. Always. They even showed up at the November 15 rally, but there were so many other "less dreary" folks, I guess you didn't notice or choose to complain back then.
Are you really linking today's low-turnout to their dreariness, or just picking fly shit out of pepper on this one? Are we really gonna bitch and moan about the "dreariness" of the folks who DID show up? Sargon is right about the learning curve--that's a bit too-cool-for-school junior-high.
Are you really linking today's low-turnout to their dreariness, or just picking fly shit out of pepper on this one? Are we really gonna bitch and moan about the "dreariness" of the folks who DID show up? Sargon is right about the learning curve--that's a bit too-cool-for-school junior-high.
30
As a Californian, I think the low turnout in this state can be attributed to the battle being waged in the courts here at the moment. I think people are waiting to see what will be the outcome to the challenges against Prop 8.
I also think people were initially very angry and that anger has worn off. People in California were angry that marriage rights were taken away from them. We've never had federal marriage rights so maybe people aren't as pissed about DOMA. Also, it was signed into law quite a few years ago.
I also think people were initially very angry and that anger has worn off. People in California were angry that marriage rights were taken away from them. We've never had federal marriage rights so maybe people aren't as pissed about DOMA. Also, it was signed into law quite a few years ago.
31
@28 agreed--and if ERW wants to focus on large-group organization, while QuAC wants to focus on outreach on the grass-roots level, it's win-win. There's room for both--if we can cooperate here, kids.
I have to disagree with the ERW-payrolled Powell on this--more organizations doesn't necessarily create division, as we all know there's much work to be done. We can use all the different approaches we can get, especially ones building valuable coalitions that cross gender and sexual orientation lines. And please be careful about bad-mouthing other organizations about an event that you admit your own organization "didn't play much of a role" in organizing. THAT sort of talk is what sows division.
With all due respect, please learn the Worth-With model in your job training for ERW, Kyler.
I have to disagree with the ERW-payrolled Powell on this--more organizations doesn't necessarily create division, as we all know there's much work to be done. We can use all the different approaches we can get, especially ones building valuable coalitions that cross gender and sexual orientation lines. And please be careful about bad-mouthing other organizations about an event that you admit your own organization "didn't play much of a role" in organizing. THAT sort of talk is what sows division.
With all due respect, please learn the Worth-With model in your job training for ERW, Kyler.
33
25
>"a gay married double income no kids (DINK) couple are taxed more than 2 single people who are in the same household"<
wow
this gives me an idea about how to pay for tax cuts for my new BFs, middle class Republicans...
>"a gay married double income no kids (DINK) couple are taxed more than 2 single people who are in the same household"<
wow
this gives me an idea about how to pay for tax cuts for my new BFs, middle class Republicans...
35
@30
Because Gays would rather sit on their asses and have some left wing closet homo judge give them what they want.
Or sit on their asses and whine and bitch if he doesn't.
Lots of sitting on asses.
No wonder everyone is buttsore over Prop 8.
Because Gays would rather sit on their asses and have some left wing closet homo judge give them what they want.
Or sit on their asses and whine and bitch if he doesn't.
Lots of sitting on asses.
No wonder everyone is buttsore over Prop 8.
36
Keep in mind today's goal was to work towards 1 million signatures for the open letter to Obama. That is a goal I think Join the Impact will achieve.
39
The only thing more embarrassing than small failed gay protest rallies is when other gay rights groups criticize them for protesting.
40
The only thing more embarrassing than small failed gay protest rallies is when other gays criticize your small weenie.
41
The International Socialist Organization does a good job i promoting and building these types of events. I think the Stranger is way off.
42
I was wondering when the stranger would start armchair quarterbacking this stuff. You know, how it mocks anti-war protesters and tells them how to be effective organizers without actually making any kind of positive contribution to the cause. As if the Stranger's patronizing lectures on Organizing 101 have every helped anyone.
43
We interrupt this long winded thread to bring you a King County Retardation Watch Update.
As I was walking towards my car from Top Food, two dimwits decided to cut diagonally across all the parking spaces running nearly directly into me. As with the traditional Puget Sound dimwit response, as I yelled at them, they laughed thinking it was funny.
Then the two (female Asian, I think) fools continued onward, diagonally, until they found the parking space of their dreams (apparently) though there were over 500 hundred to choose from.
Not content with ramming people, they plowed into a shopping cart which propelled forward and another guy who was loading his trunk had to jump out of the way.
As is typical with retard behavior, the car was an old model honda prelude, some trace of gold on the body, and tricked out aluminum hubs.
Please report all Pugetarders to KCRWU.
As I was walking towards my car from Top Food, two dimwits decided to cut diagonally across all the parking spaces running nearly directly into me. As with the traditional Puget Sound dimwit response, as I yelled at them, they laughed thinking it was funny.
Then the two (female Asian, I think) fools continued onward, diagonally, until they found the parking space of their dreams (apparently) though there were over 500 hundred to choose from.
Not content with ramming people, they plowed into a shopping cart which propelled forward and another guy who was loading his trunk had to jump out of the way.
As is typical with retard behavior, the car was an old model honda prelude, some trace of gold on the body, and tricked out aluminum hubs.
Please report all Pugetarders to KCRWU.
45
You know who I respect as a model gay person? No, not any of you Seattle Whiners.
Barney Frank.
Why? Because he's a People's Gay Man. He is fighting not just for his rights, but he has made the rights of the oppressed part of his battle.
Let's face it, the protesters today were just Butt Pirates in search of new booty "treasure" to plunder.
Barney Frank is fighting day in and day out for men, women and children to survive in a world of shrinking economic possibilities, arrogant robber barons and over bearing elites.
Can Seattle Gays say the same?
Nope.
You know who I respect as a model gay person? No, not any of you Seattle Whiners.
Barney Frank.
Why? Because he's a People's Gay Man. He is fighting not just for his rights, but he has made the rights of the oppressed part of his battle.
Let's face it, the protesters today were just Butt Pirates in search of new booty "treasure" to plunder.
Barney Frank is fighting day in and day out for men, women and children to survive in a world of shrinking economic possibilities, arrogant robber barons and over bearing elites.
Can Seattle Gays say the same?
Nope.
46
The only thing more embarrassing than small failed gay protest rallies is Blaire constantly being on Manhunt with his tiny little dick and his tiny little body
BLAHTEQUAHHHHHH
BLAHTEQUAHHHHHH
47
@45 - A Big Thank You. As I mentioned in #25, I'm not overly concerned about gay marriage right now as I'm more concerned about the economy right now.
I honestly think that those in the GLBT community that bitch about the whole Warren thing right now than the economy are the ones who have government jobs with the state or county, or those who work at companies or orgs (and I'll remain silent on those names) that are financially sound no matter what happens.
I honestly think that those in the GLBT community that bitch about the whole Warren thing right now than the economy are the ones who have government jobs with the state or county, or those who work at companies or orgs (and I'll remain silent on those names) that are financially sound no matter what happens.
50
Do we think that maybe the people at these organizations might know something about what works and what doesn't when it comes to social advocacy? Look at the progress we've made in Washington in the last couple of years. We're not done yet, no, but how many other states have domestic partnership laws, for example?
What I'd propose is that maybe ERW's decision not to participate was intentional. Are we, as a community, just going to spend all our time and resources taking to the streets and griping? We had an ultra-successful rally in November thanks to Mr. Powell and all the folks at ERW... but now our community has to get back to the day-in-day-out work that goes along with this fight. As fun as it is to march through the streets, rallying once every other month seems like overkill and is probably not that effectual (think: law of diminishing returns). I kinda wonder if that's not the same thing they're thinking at ERW. I know it's why I didn't attend.
Go volunteer, go talk to your family and friends about why same-sex marriage is important... there are many more ways to participate than attending/starting yet another rally.
What I'd propose is that maybe ERW's decision not to participate was intentional. Are we, as a community, just going to spend all our time and resources taking to the streets and griping? We had an ultra-successful rally in November thanks to Mr. Powell and all the folks at ERW... but now our community has to get back to the day-in-day-out work that goes along with this fight. As fun as it is to march through the streets, rallying once every other month seems like overkill and is probably not that effectual (think: law of diminishing returns). I kinda wonder if that's not the same thing they're thinking at ERW. I know it's why I didn't attend.
Go volunteer, go talk to your family and friends about why same-sex marriage is important... there are many more ways to participate than attending/starting yet another rally.
51
@50
Thank you for spreading some light on advocacy. People need to remember that it is nearly impossible for ERW to spend resources on every tiny or large event that takes place. Just like everyone else is worried about the economy I'm sure ERW feels the constraints as a direct result of our financial constraints.
Thank you for spreading some light on advocacy. People need to remember that it is nearly impossible for ERW to spend resources on every tiny or large event that takes place. Just like everyone else is worried about the economy I'm sure ERW feels the constraints as a direct result of our financial constraints.
55
This probably falls in the category of too little too late but I just noticed this facebook group
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=38…
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=38…
56
Perhaps the big turnouts in Nov. were helped along by the election fever? Now it's months later, the economy is even worse and it's cold and snowy out (even in Seattle). Slog DID do much more to publicize the Nov. marches that they did for this one. And were any of the Stranger's angry queers even there? If Dan was up on the stage making a speech more people would have shown up-even if they did bring their own vegetables to throw.
57
as someone involved in local lgbt politics for some time, I can virtually assure you that ERW has chosen not to expend energy on an inevitably smaller and smaller set of protest marches (I'm guessing, I don't have direct knowledge). it's evident to everyone that we (as a community) are not yet at the point where 10k people are going to turn out for a march every month...so spending what time and energy on a series of every shrinking marches (which just make us look ineffective, if they get reported at all) makes zero sense. Without a doubt, ERW is making the right choice, which is to be friendly to groups who want to march, but not expend their own time on it. The legislative session starts on Monday....don't you think ERW maybe should be spending some time on that?
The least the stranger could do is assign someone to write these stories/posts who has some inkling about how organizing happens. It's embarrassing for you.
You know what else is embarrassing? At least 60K gays and lesbians live in the city of seattle? What % of them actually contribute (real time or $) to ERW (or even HRC which does almost nothing locally) or any of the politically oriented groups? Less than 5%. If 95% of gays and lesbians in Seattle can't be bothered to step up, maybe we all deserve to stay where we are.
Of the commenters here, who gives more than $100/year or spends more than 4 hours/month with any local LBGT political organization? Exactly.
The least the stranger could do is assign someone to write these stories/posts who has some inkling about how organizing happens. It's embarrassing for you.
You know what else is embarrassing? At least 60K gays and lesbians live in the city of seattle? What % of them actually contribute (real time or $) to ERW (or even HRC which does almost nothing locally) or any of the politically oriented groups? Less than 5%. If 95% of gays and lesbians in Seattle can't be bothered to step up, maybe we all deserve to stay where we are.
Of the commenters here, who gives more than $100/year or spends more than 4 hours/month with any local LBGT political organization? Exactly.
58
I don't think its constructive to claim that unless a march rounds up 10,000 people it isn't worth having. Movement usually start among a brave few.
Also, I dont know what Kyler is talking about by saying that more organizations just demonstrate divisions in the community. Statements like that are what cause division.
Dont expect anything like the November march any time soon. We are back to bar crawls and causing friction between organizations instead of constructive activism.
Also, I dont know what Kyler is talking about by saying that more organizations just demonstrate divisions in the community. Statements like that are what cause division.
Dont expect anything like the November march any time soon. We are back to bar crawls and causing friction between organizations instead of constructive activism.
59
@57 and others: I'm sure there are limited ways to get involved with ERW and HRC, but not everyone wants to do those things, and not everyone has money to donate. Shouldn't there be an organization for these people too? Perhaps we would see more of the "95% of gays and lesbians in Seattle" getting involved if they had more options to choose from?
The types of activity members of Queer Ally Coaltion want to engage in, and the tone of resistance to oppression of the GLBTQ community, make it an entirely different group.
This sort of thing takes time to build, it won't happen in a single march - which is exactly why dismissive posts like Mr. Holden's are so damaging - because it fails to focus on the positive. Is it great that 100 showed up instead of 1,000? Of course not. But is it great that the organization signed up dozens of new people, many of whom were excited to get involved in a variety of different ways? Yes, absolutely.
There are different measures of success. Some people finding endless patience with the approach of "educating" and lobbying and waiting for legislation that sometimes seems to never get closer. I think those same people should cut some slack for an organization's FIRST major event, esp. when they are trying to do something new and exciting - get the other 95% into action.
The types of activity members of Queer Ally Coaltion want to engage in, and the tone of resistance to oppression of the GLBTQ community, make it an entirely different group.
This sort of thing takes time to build, it won't happen in a single march - which is exactly why dismissive posts like Mr. Holden's are so damaging - because it fails to focus on the positive. Is it great that 100 showed up instead of 1,000? Of course not. But is it great that the organization signed up dozens of new people, many of whom were excited to get involved in a variety of different ways? Yes, absolutely.
There are different measures of success. Some people finding endless patience with the approach of "educating" and lobbying and waiting for legislation that sometimes seems to never get closer. I think those same people should cut some slack for an organization's FIRST major event, esp. when they are trying to do something new and exciting - get the other 95% into action.
60
I didn't go because the purpose of the event was to urge Obama to repeal DOMA....which is something he has already promised to do. How about we give the man a chance to keep his promises. If he's been in office for two years and nothing has happened then sure let's have a petition signing protest.
61
Too hung over to go to the protest Saturday? It's not too late to help gather signatures from Seattle. Download the petition at www.jointheimpact.com and start getting signatures. Please mail them Jan 12. I went out Friday night with friends and got a ton of signatures. I also met a lot of cute guys who I've always wanted to talk to, but was too shy before.... so here you go:
10 Ways to get 1 Million Signatures on the Open Letter to Obama:
1. Gather signatures at your place of work (make sure it doesn't hinder your HR policy)
2. Go out to the bars on Friday and Saturday nights and get signatures
3. Go to your local screening of MILK and get signatures from individuals in line or as they are leaving
4. Go to local stores and ask that they put the signature pages at the counter
5. Grab a friend and canvas your neighborhood asking for signatures
6. Go to a local event to gain signatures (Art Walks, Concerts, etc)
7. Take a copy to class and ask your teacher if you can announce that you're gathering signatures.
8. Attend one of the National Rallies on January 10th to gain signatures (find your rally here)
9. Go to church on Sunday and ask for signatures
10. Use the power of the internet: Email these tips with links to the letter, Blog about it, ping all your friends on Facebook/MySpace, send this message to EVERYONE
10 Ways to get 1 Million Signatures on the Open Letter to Obama:
1. Gather signatures at your place of work (make sure it doesn't hinder your HR policy)
2. Go out to the bars on Friday and Saturday nights and get signatures
3. Go to your local screening of MILK and get signatures from individuals in line or as they are leaving
4. Go to local stores and ask that they put the signature pages at the counter
5. Grab a friend and canvas your neighborhood asking for signatures
6. Go to a local event to gain signatures (Art Walks, Concerts, etc)
7. Take a copy to class and ask your teacher if you can announce that you're gathering signatures.
8. Attend one of the National Rallies on January 10th to gain signatures (find your rally here)
9. Go to church on Sunday and ask for signatures
10. Use the power of the internet: Email these tips with links to the letter, Blog about it, ping all your friends on Facebook/MySpace, send this message to EVERYONE
63
I think what everyone needs to consider here is visibility. Having a monthly (or bi-monthly) call to action to our community gives us consistent visibility. For too long our community has been fired up over one issue, we get out and march, and then we all go back to our day to day activities putting the nation in a state of complacency. When Matthew Shepard was murdered in 1998, our community held national candlelight vigils. We took to the streets in outrage and showed this nation that "hate is not a family value." Now, ten years later, we STILL haven't passed the Matthew Shepard act. Ask any average Joe/Jane (gay or straight) about Matthew Shepard today, and they wouldn't know who he is. Worse yet, those who do know who he is think that he was the LAST member of the LGBT community to be murdered for being gay. The majority of this country doesn't even realize that over 1000 members of the LGBTQ community are murdered/beaten each year because or their sexual orientation. They don't know because we don't make any noise about it. The country can sleep at night thinking that ignorance does not lead to violence. People like Rick Warren can rest their eyes thinking that they are spreading love and not aware that their words are a catalyst that gives those willing to harm another a sense of entitlement.
A commenter said that we should be taking advice from those who are 40-50 who have been fighting this fight rather than reinventing the wheel. That's what we are doing. Members of Act Up, Chicago Gay Liberation, and even friends of Harvey Milk have told us to keep calling for visibility and action. Many have said that even if 5 people show up, it's still another way to shed visibility on our movement and affect the hundreds of passers by in the viewing audience.
We can all take daily actions toward equality. That's why Join The Impact issued the 10 months 10 lives changed challenge, where we ask each and every member of the LGBTQ community to have 10 conversations of equality with someone who is not like-minded. But we need to do more than that. We need to reach the people who refuse to listen. We need to generate national attention and let the media put us in everyone's living room after work. If we do not continue to unite loudly and visibly, then they have every right to continue ignoring us, just like they ignore all of the hate crimes since Matthew. Sitting back in silence won't win us any rights. Giving the nation a reason to continue the conversation of equality is something that we as a community have not done for many years. We have to put ourselves in situations where we aren't just preaching to the choir, and protests are ONE way to do this.
Join the Impact gave organizers around the country 4 ways to get 1 million signatures on the Open Letter to Obama. While organizing a protest was one of these ways, canvasing the city in a signature drive was another. In Seattle, we did both. The QAC stepped up and said that they wanted to have a rally and march. Prior to that, our plan was to have about 20 volunteers getting signatures in Westlake Center. We knew that the November 15th turnout couldn't be repeated for a number of reasons, but the QAC was willing to put their name out there and try, and that is something extremely commendable. They understood the need to keep our presence out there. 100 people left with signature sheets for the Open Letter, which gives us 2000 more signatures if they each fill out the entire sheet. While that was happening, 80 volunteers canvased around the city, getting another 2000 signatures.
I think that we learned some valuable lessons yesterday, and I agree with the assessment that ERW cannot and should not have to be a part of every event. For this movement to work, we need to attack it from all angles. ERW has some amazing plans ahead to gain more rights in Washington, JTI will continue to call for national visibility with national actions, and QAC fired up a base of people willing to come out on a cold day and fight for what they believe in.
In the end, we all continue to discuss how we are going to gain rights and that conversation is now seeping into the movable middle. I stood at the corner of Westlake Center gathering signatures as we waited for QAC's march to join us in Westlake Center. I had about 100 conversations with people who had no clue what DOMA was. In the end, they all signed the Open Letter to Obama. If yesterday did nothing else, it fired up 100 protesters to go out and have these same conversations with a clear action item for each person: to sign the letter. It's a slow road to equality, but for me it begins with changing hearts and minds. The only way I can do this is if I put myself out there and have those conversations. Protests are 1 way to do this and they achieve the necessary visibility that our movement needs if we want people to pay attention to us. Now we all need to work together to learn how we can raise the bar. We need to figure out how to have more than 100 people next time, we don't need to argue about how there shouldn't be a next time.
More...
A commenter said that we should be taking advice from those who are 40-50 who have been fighting this fight rather than reinventing the wheel. That's what we are doing. Members of Act Up, Chicago Gay Liberation, and even friends of Harvey Milk have told us to keep calling for visibility and action. Many have said that even if 5 people show up, it's still another way to shed visibility on our movement and affect the hundreds of passers by in the viewing audience.
We can all take daily actions toward equality. That's why Join The Impact issued the 10 months 10 lives changed challenge, where we ask each and every member of the LGBTQ community to have 10 conversations of equality with someone who is not like-minded. But we need to do more than that. We need to reach the people who refuse to listen. We need to generate national attention and let the media put us in everyone's living room after work. If we do not continue to unite loudly and visibly, then they have every right to continue ignoring us, just like they ignore all of the hate crimes since Matthew. Sitting back in silence won't win us any rights. Giving the nation a reason to continue the conversation of equality is something that we as a community have not done for many years. We have to put ourselves in situations where we aren't just preaching to the choir, and protests are ONE way to do this.
Join the Impact gave organizers around the country 4 ways to get 1 million signatures on the Open Letter to Obama. While organizing a protest was one of these ways, canvasing the city in a signature drive was another. In Seattle, we did both. The QAC stepped up and said that they wanted to have a rally and march. Prior to that, our plan was to have about 20 volunteers getting signatures in Westlake Center. We knew that the November 15th turnout couldn't be repeated for a number of reasons, but the QAC was willing to put their name out there and try, and that is something extremely commendable. They understood the need to keep our presence out there. 100 people left with signature sheets for the Open Letter, which gives us 2000 more signatures if they each fill out the entire sheet. While that was happening, 80 volunteers canvased around the city, getting another 2000 signatures.
I think that we learned some valuable lessons yesterday, and I agree with the assessment that ERW cannot and should not have to be a part of every event. For this movement to work, we need to attack it from all angles. ERW has some amazing plans ahead to gain more rights in Washington, JTI will continue to call for national visibility with national actions, and QAC fired up a base of people willing to come out on a cold day and fight for what they believe in.
In the end, we all continue to discuss how we are going to gain rights and that conversation is now seeping into the movable middle. I stood at the corner of Westlake Center gathering signatures as we waited for QAC's march to join us in Westlake Center. I had about 100 conversations with people who had no clue what DOMA was. In the end, they all signed the Open Letter to Obama. If yesterday did nothing else, it fired up 100 protesters to go out and have these same conversations with a clear action item for each person: to sign the letter. It's a slow road to equality, but for me it begins with changing hearts and minds. The only way I can do this is if I put myself out there and have those conversations. Protests are 1 way to do this and they achieve the necessary visibility that our movement needs if we want people to pay attention to us. Now we all need to work together to learn how we can raise the bar. We need to figure out how to have more than 100 people next time, we don't need to argue about how there shouldn't be a next time.
64
@60 - Have you read the Open Letter to Obama: http://jointheimpact.wetpaint.com/page/O…. It asks him to stick to the promises he made. He has already stated that he may not repeal Don't Ask Don't Tell and that he's not sure about DOMA either. Even Bob Barr (the author of DOMA) has requested it be repealed, yet Obama is still uncertain. That said, it's definitely important to remind him of his words and show him that over 1 million people pledge to help him stick to his promises. Gathering 1 million real signatures is not easy... an online petition would have had 1 million signatures in a day, but this shows just how committed we are to repealing DOMA and him following through with the many other promises. I encourage you to sign the Open Letter and get friends and family to sign it as well.
65
@60
Get with the program!!
We want to constantly remind Obama what massive pains in the ass we are; and how self-centered, short-sighted and politically immature we are.
I feel the urge to get on his website to bitch and whine coming on even as I type....
Get with the program!!
We want to constantly remind Obama what massive pains in the ass we are; and how self-centered, short-sighted and politically immature we are.
I feel the urge to get on his website to bitch and whine coming on even as I type....
66
I for one welcome the participation of groups like The International Socialist Organization. Organized left groups are as much a part of the movement for queer rights as any other groups. If you don't like what they say just don't read their literature. Out movement needs support from any group that supports our agenda.
67
p.s instead of critizing those who did march Saturday why not ask why larger and more important groups did not? I think some may be of the opinion that we should wait and see what Obama does wiith the issue os same sex marriage. That is a fair position to take. But if he fails to deliver as promised then we should proceed with protests and let the chips fall where they may. We need to keep rocking the boat no matter who the current captain is. The fight for our rights is much more important than any concern about putting Obama on the spot.
69
How about folks stop just throwing together events on their own and actually get involved with the groups doing the real political work to make changes?
And if you don't like what HRC, ERW, and other groups are doing then get all your like-minded friends involved to CHANGE those groups.
Unfortunately, we instead have people who haven't taken the time to educate themselves on what's really going on and where volunteer time and resources might best be put to work.
Someone above said it's important to talk to folks in their 40's and 50's who've been in it for the long haul. That's some good advice. I'm not discounting the need for new ideas, new voices, and new leadership, but I also wish people would be more willing to realize that they may not be the FIRST people with an idea or a voice and a willingness to ACT-UP.
And if you don't like what HRC, ERW, and other groups are doing then get all your like-minded friends involved to CHANGE those groups.
Unfortunately, we instead have people who haven't taken the time to educate themselves on what's really going on and where volunteer time and resources might best be put to work.
Someone above said it's important to talk to folks in their 40's and 50's who've been in it for the long haul. That's some good advice. I'm not discounting the need for new ideas, new voices, and new leadership, but I also wish people would be more willing to realize that they may not be the FIRST people with an idea or a voice and a willingness to ACT-UP.
70
Heather @ 67) I did exactly what you suggested: criticized the established groups for failing to take ownership of the march and give the new group guidance.
I didn't criticize the people who marched. But I do think the march was worse than ineffective--it looks like the movement is dying when only 100 people show up and the biggest presence is a parasitic group like the ISO.
I didn't criticize the people who marched. But I do think the march was worse than ineffective--it looks like the movement is dying when only 100 people show up and the biggest presence is a parasitic group like the ISO.
71
@70
100?
"looks like the movement is dying"?
NEWS FLASH>>>
The 'movement' is DEAD
you read it on SLOG first
100?
"looks like the movement is dying"?
NEWS FLASH>>>
The 'movement' is DEAD
you read it on SLOG first
72
Why is Amy so focused on large crowds and claims of one million this or one million that? She seems to think every JTI action has to involved the magic number of 1,00,000. One million people were supposed impacted by the silent Xmas actions. One million signatures will be gathered supposedly and present to the new Prez.
My point is that size queens are not always men.
My point is that size queens are not always men.
73
Dominic @ 70) I would suggest that the parasites that you should worry about are the major pary politicans who ask for our votes and then then around and pick a Rick Warren as a major speaker. It seems that like other writers at The Stranger you go out of your way to take gratuitous swipes at left organizations. I am not part of the ISO, but I respect their participation in the gay community. At least they were out there promoting the march and bringing people to the event.
74
@73 - RIGHT ON.
Dominic (@70), you chimed in after 69 comments to defend yourself by repeating the same lame arguments people are taking you to task for. Being so dismissive of a single action - without providing any sort of context explaining it - is worse than ineffective. It discourages everyone, both those that are working hard and others that are considering doing something.
And re: the International Socialist Organization, get off it. Taking cheap shots at organizations you don't seem interested in understanding doesn't lend great credibility to the rest of your work.
There have been a lot of really great comments so far, talking about the need for a variety of voices, directions for GLBTQ rights movements to take, and more. I would hope you could engage with the readers on that level.
Dominic (@70), you chimed in after 69 comments to defend yourself by repeating the same lame arguments people are taking you to task for. Being so dismissive of a single action - without providing any sort of context explaining it - is worse than ineffective. It discourages everyone, both those that are working hard and others that are considering doing something.
And re: the International Socialist Organization, get off it. Taking cheap shots at organizations you don't seem interested in understanding doesn't lend great credibility to the rest of your work.
There have been a lot of really great comments so far, talking about the need for a variety of voices, directions for GLBTQ rights movements to take, and more. I would hope you could engage with the readers on that level.
75
Pick your battles.
This is not going to happen in the first 100 days of the Obama administration, and you know it.
Now, gays in the military or non-discrimination for gays on housing, renting, hiring, etc might ...
This is not going to happen in the first 100 days of the Obama administration, and you know it.
Now, gays in the military or non-discrimination for gays on housing, renting, hiring, etc might ...
76
I wonder if Dominic Holden suggests that we let ERW take control of the movement for our rights because that's all his lazy ass is willing to do. My question is who gets to decide the way forward for all lgbt people? Currently, that's ERW, whether we agree with them or not, whether we think marriage is the only issue we should be fighting for or not. They're not the enemy in this, though, they're simply wrong in their approach. There are several much less visible, but much more politicized queer groups in this community who actively disagree with ERW's "elect equality-minded politicians and pray they do us good" approach. I've yet to see Mr. Holden comment on them. I think it's hugely successful if, for the first time in at least somewhat of a public forum, queers are actually discussing and debating the way forward. If we were all to take Mr. Holden's advice, sit on our asses, pass a joint, and let ERW make the movement, this dialogue would not be happening. Thanks, Mr. Holden, for accomplishing the opposite of what you've set out to do!
By the way, in terms of being "out of touch with the community and reality", you were apparently the only person in the crowd of 10,000 on 11/15 who interpreted Ron Sims's comment that "everyone should be able to marry anyone they want" as an endorsement for NAMBLA and polygamy. In that sense, you sound like a right wing self-hating queer. I wonder if the UW Daily's John Fay sees you as his mentor.
By the way, in terms of being "out of touch with the community and reality", you were apparently the only person in the crowd of 10,000 on 11/15 who interpreted Ron Sims's comment that "everyone should be able to marry anyone they want" as an endorsement for NAMBLA and polygamy. In that sense, you sound like a right wing self-hating queer. I wonder if the UW Daily's John Fay sees you as his mentor.
77
#69 - The problem is that the already established groups like HRC and ERW have a different focus. They want to collect signatures and lobby to politicians, while QAC would rather build a visible grassroots movement, where individuals have the ability to have their voices heard - and not just through donations. In my opinion, a lot has been done in the last century by groups that involved the community directly, and didn't just claim to speak for them because they got money out of them. I've ran into many people that are dismayed by established groups because they want to get involved, only to find out that these groups often just want their donations, and not their actual opinions or involvement.
I think that there is room in this community for both types of groups. Fundraising organizations have their role to fill, but let's not forget that the Civil Rights, Womens' Rights, and Gay Rights movements of the 60s and 70s were successful because they built consciousness and solidarity with the community. I don't seem to remember them just collecting donations and then pleading to politicians for equal rights. They made DEMANDS, why shouldn't we follow suit?
I think that there is room in this community for both types of groups. Fundraising organizations have their role to fill, but let's not forget that the Civil Rights, Womens' Rights, and Gay Rights movements of the 60s and 70s were successful because they built consciousness and solidarity with the community. I don't seem to remember them just collecting donations and then pleading to politicians for equal rights. They made DEMANDS, why shouldn't we follow suit?
78
Just to remind folks... the 11/15 rally got 10,000 but it actually DID NOT repeal Prop 8. How exactly are you defining "success"? We all know queers can throw a party, but that's not the same thing as winning rights. I think if ERW was able to pull 10,000 to a protest, that's awesome. But did it tap into the energy and bring those people into the movement? Not one bit. They sent everyone home with a fundraising pitch to talk to their moms and dads and show up in Olympia four months later. Saturday's event may only have had about a 100 people, but at least half of those people signed up to get involved in organizing and coming up with more ideas for how to win equality. That's how we need to be defining success.
For too many years, queers and lefties in general have had this really pessimistic definition of success based on numbers of phone calls made or door bells knocked or signatures gathered. Success in a political movement is not determined by the money you raise (No on 8 raised more money and failed) or on how many people you can get to come to your party, but on how many people you can raise to the level of self-conscious organizers.
As for Barney Frank... He's a fucking sell out. Just goes to show you that the Democratic Party loves to kill social movement by letting a few into their private clubs and screwing the rest of us. What has Barney Frank done in the last 25 years to help gay people? Why did he take George Bush's position and call SF mayor Gavin Newsom "divisive" when Newsom started marrying gay couples? A real equal rights supporter would have cheered him on and challenged other mayors (like Greg Nickles) The guy was forced out of the closet for having sex with a male prostitute and instrumental in getting Congress to hand over our tax dollars to Wall Street. That's your hero? Shit, there are plenty of great queers out there to look up to. Raise your standards.
And just to set the record straight: those thousands of people DID NOT come out on 11/15 because ERW or Kyler told them to. Thousands around the country who have never heard of ERW or Kyler came out. People came out because they were angry. We were attacked and people were pissed. A poodle could have called that demonstration and people would have showed up because that's what you do when you are outraged at an injustice.
More...
For too many years, queers and lefties in general have had this really pessimistic definition of success based on numbers of phone calls made or door bells knocked or signatures gathered. Success in a political movement is not determined by the money you raise (No on 8 raised more money and failed) or on how many people you can get to come to your party, but on how many people you can raise to the level of self-conscious organizers.
As for Barney Frank... He's a fucking sell out. Just goes to show you that the Democratic Party loves to kill social movement by letting a few into their private clubs and screwing the rest of us. What has Barney Frank done in the last 25 years to help gay people? Why did he take George Bush's position and call SF mayor Gavin Newsom "divisive" when Newsom started marrying gay couples? A real equal rights supporter would have cheered him on and challenged other mayors (like Greg Nickles) The guy was forced out of the closet for having sex with a male prostitute and instrumental in getting Congress to hand over our tax dollars to Wall Street. That's your hero? Shit, there are plenty of great queers out there to look up to. Raise your standards.
And just to set the record straight: those thousands of people DID NOT come out on 11/15 because ERW or Kyler told them to. Thousands around the country who have never heard of ERW or Kyler came out. People came out because they were angry. We were attacked and people were pissed. A poodle could have called that demonstration and people would have showed up because that's what you do when you are outraged at an injustice.
79
If we're asked to donate money to ERW (armchair activism), shouldn't we be allowed to know where that money goes to? If they're calling on us to be "investers" in their work, shouldn't we be able to judge for ourselves what we're getting for our money?
Domestic partnerships are a great advance, but what would we have if we actually had a vibrant, energetic, grassroots, democratically organized political movement involving the thousands of people who clearly were moved to action on 11/15? What if people came to rallies and weren't bored off their asses by talks of love and harmony and peace and reaching out? Who in the hell wants to make friends with people who are trying to kill us? Marriage equality bills have been introduced every year since 2005. Why doesn't Frank Chopp call a party line vote and pass marriage equality tomorrow? Why does the Democratic Party allow people in its ranks that don't support equal rights or even its own platform?
Last month, a gay Ecuadorian immigrant was murdered in New York by four men shouting anti-Latino and anti-gay slurs. Last summer, Duwanna Johnson was beaten on camera by cops in a police station. Last month, a 28 year old lesbian in Richmond, CA, was beaten and gangraped by four men for 45 minutes and then left naked outside an abandoned building. What response does ERW have to these violent attacks on our community? And what strategies do we have to make sure these things don't happen here? If we don't have a strategy, shouldn't we devise one? By the way, has anyone publicly pointed out the fact that ERW's strategy of winning rights through the judicial process FAILED.
Why is there so much internalized homophobia in some of these comments? Why do we follow the tone set by our leaders and insist that this is NOT a civil rights struggle, that we should NOT be angry at attack on us and our community, that we should NOT step up and create new forms of political expression and protest beyond simply writing a check or casting a ballot? I guess I am a radical. I believe equal rights are worth fighting for. Damn me.
More...
Domestic partnerships are a great advance, but what would we have if we actually had a vibrant, energetic, grassroots, democratically organized political movement involving the thousands of people who clearly were moved to action on 11/15? What if people came to rallies and weren't bored off their asses by talks of love and harmony and peace and reaching out? Who in the hell wants to make friends with people who are trying to kill us? Marriage equality bills have been introduced every year since 2005. Why doesn't Frank Chopp call a party line vote and pass marriage equality tomorrow? Why does the Democratic Party allow people in its ranks that don't support equal rights or even its own platform?
Last month, a gay Ecuadorian immigrant was murdered in New York by four men shouting anti-Latino and anti-gay slurs. Last summer, Duwanna Johnson was beaten on camera by cops in a police station. Last month, a 28 year old lesbian in Richmond, CA, was beaten and gangraped by four men for 45 minutes and then left naked outside an abandoned building. What response does ERW have to these violent attacks on our community? And what strategies do we have to make sure these things don't happen here? If we don't have a strategy, shouldn't we devise one? By the way, has anyone publicly pointed out the fact that ERW's strategy of winning rights through the judicial process FAILED.
Why is there so much internalized homophobia in some of these comments? Why do we follow the tone set by our leaders and insist that this is NOT a civil rights struggle, that we should NOT be angry at attack on us and our community, that we should NOT step up and create new forms of political expression and protest beyond simply writing a check or casting a ballot? I guess I am a radical. I believe equal rights are worth fighting for. Damn me.
80
How did oppressed people win any of the rights we have? EVERY right we have came from mass movements.---from riots, demonstrations, strikes etc. I really doubt LGBT people would be in as good a position today if there had been a "Stonewall Lobbying/Elect a nicer politician Day" in 1969. It took a rebellion to put LGBT liberation in the center of public consciousness. Did those dismissive of demonstrations not see "Milk"? Every demonstration won't be a raging numerical success---but the point is to keep building actual movements that involve as many people as possible.
As far as the role of the International Socialist Organization, there are two main issues--1) People can and have won reforms that lessen oppression even under capitalism. We actively support the fight for reforms under capitalism even if they don't get at the root of the problem. However, we don't believe full liberation can come until capitalism is overthrown. Therefore,as people who want to see the liberation of all oppressed groups, we have to work for the overthrow of capitalism. That takes organization. Building the socialist movement is a very important, concrete part of building support for LGBT liberation as well as the liberation of all oppressed groups. Having our banner, selling our newspaper etc. is a contribution to winning socialism and hence winning the only firm basis of LGBT liberation.
2) We believe that the fight for progressive reforms under capitalism and the fight to overthrow it are intimately connected. Every step forward in winning reforms builds the confidence , organization etc. that will be needed to finally overthrow capitalism. That is why socialists are the most consistent fighters for reforms. The I.S.O. does not just show up at rallies with our banner and newsppaper----which would be a contribution to the struggle for liberation in and of itself. We also build and are often in the forefront of organizing rallies, demonstrations and struggles in general. The list of the coalitions we've been involved in , struggles we've organized etc. would take up too many pages , but here are just a few in Seattle alone:
*In 1978, we organized with many other groups to defeat an anti-gay initiative that would have taken away employment and housing rights. We were instrumental in getting local 174 of the Teamsters Union to sign on to that fight.
*In the late 90's we organized with other groups to win same sex couples' rights at the UW---rights still in existence today.
* In the 90's,We organized a protest against lesbian-bashing outside the Wild Rose--initiating a protest that several other groups joined in .
* We were instrumental in organizing Marriage Equality Now ( MENOW) , a few years ago.
* We were involved in the formation of the Queer Allies group recently
* We organized the only public open discussion on the victory of Prop 8 ,and how we could win Gay Marriage during " Day without a Gay", Dec. 10
The list of our activity in opposition to racism, sexism, war and exploitation just here in Seattle, much less across the U.S. would take too much space----but anyone who wants more information is invited to contact us or attend our meetings on Wed. evenings at Seattle Central Community College. Contact us at 206-931-2922 or info@seattleiso.org
Far from being "parasites" , we BUILD movements against oppression and exploitation. The real parasites are the politicians who seek LGBT votes and money but give little in return.
Steve Leigh, proud supporter of LGBT liberation AND proud member of the International Socialist Organization
More...
As far as the role of the International Socialist Organization, there are two main issues--1) People can and have won reforms that lessen oppression even under capitalism. We actively support the fight for reforms under capitalism even if they don't get at the root of the problem. However, we don't believe full liberation can come until capitalism is overthrown. Therefore,as people who want to see the liberation of all oppressed groups, we have to work for the overthrow of capitalism. That takes organization. Building the socialist movement is a very important, concrete part of building support for LGBT liberation as well as the liberation of all oppressed groups. Having our banner, selling our newspaper etc. is a contribution to winning socialism and hence winning the only firm basis of LGBT liberation.
2) We believe that the fight for progressive reforms under capitalism and the fight to overthrow it are intimately connected. Every step forward in winning reforms builds the confidence , organization etc. that will be needed to finally overthrow capitalism. That is why socialists are the most consistent fighters for reforms. The I.S.O. does not just show up at rallies with our banner and newsppaper----which would be a contribution to the struggle for liberation in and of itself. We also build and are often in the forefront of organizing rallies, demonstrations and struggles in general. The list of the coalitions we've been involved in , struggles we've organized etc. would take up too many pages , but here are just a few in Seattle alone:
*In 1978, we organized with many other groups to defeat an anti-gay initiative that would have taken away employment and housing rights. We were instrumental in getting local 174 of the Teamsters Union to sign on to that fight.
*In the late 90's we organized with other groups to win same sex couples' rights at the UW---rights still in existence today.
* In the 90's,We organized a protest against lesbian-bashing outside the Wild Rose--initiating a protest that several other groups joined in .
* We were instrumental in organizing Marriage Equality Now ( MENOW) , a few years ago.
* We were involved in the formation of the Queer Allies group recently
* We organized the only public open discussion on the victory of Prop 8 ,and how we could win Gay Marriage during " Day without a Gay", Dec. 10
The list of our activity in opposition to racism, sexism, war and exploitation just here in Seattle, much less across the U.S. would take too much space----but anyone who wants more information is invited to contact us or attend our meetings on Wed. evenings at Seattle Central Community College. Contact us at 206-931-2922 or info@seattleiso.org
Far from being "parasites" , we BUILD movements against oppression and exploitation. The real parasites are the politicians who seek LGBT votes and money but give little in return.
Steve Leigh, proud supporter of LGBT liberation AND proud member of the International Socialist Organization
82
@80: I think the world has changed. Most protest now benefit the protesters with a sense of solidarity but little real change has been accomplished by it in the last few years.
I'm not saying we should "shut up" but time spent in the street protesting might be more productively used somewhere else.
I'm not saying we should "shut up" but time spent in the street protesting might be more productively used somewhere else.
83
@82, The point of protesting at this point is not just to protest and get our message heard (and in this case collect signatures to repeal DOMA), but also to organize -- to meet new people who are interested, to talk about political ideas and to get them involved in work around these issues. How else will the movement grow? Large social movements as we have seen in past decade don't just appear out of no where, they are preceded by years of patient organizing and smaller actions that generally may fly under the radar, but lay the organizational groundwork for larger moments and successes.
@ 14 and other comments about the economy and discrimination in the workplace, you are right, marriage equality is only one of many struggles that need to be won and that idea was put forward brilliantly by the speakers that QuAC invited to speak at the event.
Below is an expert from a forthcoming Socialist Worker article by Ethan Boyles that highlights some of the topics that speakers covered from the front:
"This theme of unity was expressed by many speakers who argued that the fight for gay rights does not stand apart from other struggles. Mike Andrew, of Pride at Work, held that organizing for marriage equality is good, but not enough. The struggle needs to be taken into work places as well. “[LGBT workers] need union representation like any other worker,” he said."
"Chanan Suarezdiaz of QuAC called for the repeal of the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policies used in the military and pointed out the hypocrisy of the U.S. government, which claims to be spreading democracy around the world and yet treats members of the LGBT community as second-class citizens."
"A member of Students for a Hate Free Daily (a University of Washington group formed to protest against a homophobic article published in the school’s newspaper last month) connected the gay rights movement to the struggles of homeless youth in his speech, pointing out that 40% of homeless youth identify as queer."
More...
@ 14 and other comments about the economy and discrimination in the workplace, you are right, marriage equality is only one of many struggles that need to be won and that idea was put forward brilliantly by the speakers that QuAC invited to speak at the event.
Below is an expert from a forthcoming Socialist Worker article by Ethan Boyles that highlights some of the topics that speakers covered from the front:
"This theme of unity was expressed by many speakers who argued that the fight for gay rights does not stand apart from other struggles. Mike Andrew, of Pride at Work, held that organizing for marriage equality is good, but not enough. The struggle needs to be taken into work places as well. “[LGBT workers] need union representation like any other worker,” he said."
"Chanan Suarezdiaz of QuAC called for the repeal of the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policies used in the military and pointed out the hypocrisy of the U.S. government, which claims to be spreading democracy around the world and yet treats members of the LGBT community as second-class citizens."
"A member of Students for a Hate Free Daily (a University of Washington group formed to protest against a homophobic article published in the school’s newspaper last month) connected the gay rights movement to the struggles of homeless youth in his speech, pointing out that 40% of homeless youth identify as queer."
84
Dominic's reference to socialists as "parasites" shows his complete ignorance of the lgbt history. Those who don't know our history mislead and discourage our movement... and get jobs at the Stranger.
The founding of the Mattachine Society in Los Angeles in 1951 marked the beginning of what would grow into a nationwide effort. The society’s leadership came from several male homosexuals who were either members of the Communist Party or traveled in left-wing circles. The slow, patient building of the organization offers an amazing lesson and source of inspiration. Not quite sure how to begin to develop their organization, Harry Hay and another member decided to try to find homosexuals who shared their political sympathies. In an attempt to locate other leftists, they obtained copies of a Communist party petition against the Korean war and took them to the gay male beaches in Los Angeles. During the next two months, the two men collected the signatures of several hundred homosexuals opposed to the war. But when they used the opportunity also to talk about current government investigations of homosexuals in federal employment and to suggest that something ought to be done, they encountered a terrified silence. No one was willing to risk exposure of his sexual identity by joining a homosexual rights organization.
The Mattachine Society’s definition of homosexuals as a minority “unaware” of its existence put the founders on more familiar ground and suggested to them an initial course of action. Their formulation resembled the Marxist distinction between a class “in itself” and a class “for itself.” The difference between these two was one of consciousness. In the former case, workers constituted an objective social category; in the latter, they recognized their common interests. According to Marxist theory, the transformation from one to the other made the working class a cohesive force able to fight on its own behalf. Homosexuals, too, were trapped by false consciousness, by a heterosexist ideology that labeled their sexual orientation an individual aberration. The first task of a homosexual emancipation movement, then, was to challenge the internalization of this view of homosexuals and to develop among the gay population an awareness of its status as an oppressed minority. Out of that awareness homosexuals could then evolve a “highly ethical homosexual culture” and “lead well-adjusted, wholesome, and socially productive lives.”
And socialists and other radicals impacted the explosion of queer organizing which took place after the Stonewall Riots. The lgbt movement has been a series of radical explosions of consciousness and activism followed by longer periods of conservatism. I think we've been in period of conservatism in the lgbt movement since the early 1980s.
Queers who'd worked in the civil rights movement, the women's movement, the antiwar movement, and other radical social movements of the 60s were the first to organize the struggle for gay liberation. The first gay liberation organization called itself the Gay Liberation Front in solidarity with the Vietnamese resistence fighters. Imagine if today's gay rights movement named itself after the Iraqi or Afghani or Gazan resisters of today. That should give us an idea of how CONSERVATIVE our movement had become. We've stopped reaching for our goals and have grown used to settling for whatever crumbs they happen to drop.
Even at the time of the Stonewall Riots, the more conservative gay organizations tried to hold the movement back from radicalizing. "A clash between the old guard organizers and newly rising militants was apparent from the Sunday of the riots, when Mattachine activists who’d met with the mayor’s office and police posted this sign on the front of the Stonewall: “We homosexuals plead with our people to please help maintain peaceful and quiet conduct on the streets of the Village—Mattachine.” Their pleas were ignored. Each night thereafter through Wednesday, more and more gays and straight leftists, from socialists and Black Panthers to the Yippies and Puerto Rican Young Lords, arrived on the scene to participate in the latest confrontation with police." (http://www.isreview.org/issues/63/feat-s…, Sherry Wolf, Stonewall: The rise of gay power)
More...
The founding of the Mattachine Society in Los Angeles in 1951 marked the beginning of what would grow into a nationwide effort. The society’s leadership came from several male homosexuals who were either members of the Communist Party or traveled in left-wing circles. The slow, patient building of the organization offers an amazing lesson and source of inspiration. Not quite sure how to begin to develop their organization, Harry Hay and another member decided to try to find homosexuals who shared their political sympathies. In an attempt to locate other leftists, they obtained copies of a Communist party petition against the Korean war and took them to the gay male beaches in Los Angeles. During the next two months, the two men collected the signatures of several hundred homosexuals opposed to the war. But when they used the opportunity also to talk about current government investigations of homosexuals in federal employment and to suggest that something ought to be done, they encountered a terrified silence. No one was willing to risk exposure of his sexual identity by joining a homosexual rights organization.
The Mattachine Society’s definition of homosexuals as a minority “unaware” of its existence put the founders on more familiar ground and suggested to them an initial course of action. Their formulation resembled the Marxist distinction between a class “in itself” and a class “for itself.” The difference between these two was one of consciousness. In the former case, workers constituted an objective social category; in the latter, they recognized their common interests. According to Marxist theory, the transformation from one to the other made the working class a cohesive force able to fight on its own behalf. Homosexuals, too, were trapped by false consciousness, by a heterosexist ideology that labeled their sexual orientation an individual aberration. The first task of a homosexual emancipation movement, then, was to challenge the internalization of this view of homosexuals and to develop among the gay population an awareness of its status as an oppressed minority. Out of that awareness homosexuals could then evolve a “highly ethical homosexual culture” and “lead well-adjusted, wholesome, and socially productive lives.”
And socialists and other radicals impacted the explosion of queer organizing which took place after the Stonewall Riots. The lgbt movement has been a series of radical explosions of consciousness and activism followed by longer periods of conservatism. I think we've been in period of conservatism in the lgbt movement since the early 1980s.
Queers who'd worked in the civil rights movement, the women's movement, the antiwar movement, and other radical social movements of the 60s were the first to organize the struggle for gay liberation. The first gay liberation organization called itself the Gay Liberation Front in solidarity with the Vietnamese resistence fighters. Imagine if today's gay rights movement named itself after the Iraqi or Afghani or Gazan resisters of today. That should give us an idea of how CONSERVATIVE our movement had become. We've stopped reaching for our goals and have grown used to settling for whatever crumbs they happen to drop.
Even at the time of the Stonewall Riots, the more conservative gay organizations tried to hold the movement back from radicalizing. "A clash between the old guard organizers and newly rising militants was apparent from the Sunday of the riots, when Mattachine activists who’d met with the mayor’s office and police posted this sign on the front of the Stonewall: “We homosexuals plead with our people to please help maintain peaceful and quiet conduct on the streets of the Village—Mattachine.” Their pleas were ignored. Each night thereafter through Wednesday, more and more gays and straight leftists, from socialists and Black Panthers to the Yippies and Puerto Rican Young Lords, arrived on the scene to participate in the latest confrontation with police." (http://www.isreview.org/issues/63/feat-s…, Sherry Wolf, Stonewall: The rise of gay power)
85
@59 No money to donate? You can surely afford $8 a month. There's a campaign for that. Stop buying two friggin' latte's a month and think about how you can contribute. None of us "wants" to be working on all of this, but we're doing it because it's important. If you think I'm unfairly picking on you, I apologize. I'm not picking you, but rather what you represent: a gay community and a greater Seattle that bitches alot about what they want to see, but doesn't actually DO anything in return. In the time it took you to blog the usual scale of rambling kook thoughts indicative of a Stranger regular, you could have called two friends and figured out some way to be of service to the community. So don't worry - someone else will eventually clean up all of this shit while you bitch from the sidelines about what options you want in your brand of convenient activism. We want to see real change rather than just ramble about it. Be the fucking change for god's sake - enough of your tiring whine. And any others who criticize the movement without knowing shit about it is an unbelievable sap. Get out there and work for it if you want it. Stop being a douche-like burden on everyone around you
86
@84 lets hope that new voices can keep GLBT issues on the table in spite of what older leaders say. I can already hear some tell us to let Obama alone and see what happens. I hope there are enough of us to neutralize those who council us to keep quiet. Thank you for the breif history lesson because it is totally relevant to where we are today.
87
@84 lets hope that new voices can keep GLBT issues on the table in spite of what older leaders say. I can already hear some tell us to let Obama alone and see what happens. I hope there are enough of us to neutralize those who council us to keep quiet. Thank you for the breif history lesson because it is totally relevant to where we are today.
88
Congradulations Stranger for once again putting down the queer community. You are always there when we start to feel good about our hard work to put us back into our place... self loathing, un-worthy, second class citizens. So glad you could set the record STRAIGHT! Great Job!
89
#85, I'm sure people "can't afford" $8 a month for a variety of reasons. Some choose to put their money into results they can actually be a part of producing or that they can actually see. How does $8 a month get (or buy) us equal rights? Maybe some of us don't have or don't want to spend $8 a month on "equality" because we recognize it's a bullshit scam to suck people dry of money in an economic recession with no procedures in place to have a voice in the spending of that money by an organization that spends money on PR and a "branding strategist" rather than arguing political ideas and encouraging people to become activists. Actually, donating $8 a month is the most apolitical and dishonest way to build an organization can organize. All it does it maintain a constant flow of income with no accountability. Non-profits and NGOs often start out with high hopes, but when the day-to-day work of maintaining an organization sinks in, the "vision" becomes less and less the lofty goal of "equality for all" and more and more "how do we make payroll this month" or "how do we maintain our current level of funding"? If I donate $8, will I get a vote on how that money is spent, on which candidates are endorsed, on what issues are fought for? I bet you I would have a voice if I donated $10,000.
90
@85, I agree with 89.
It seems that you are ready to spit fire over people that are "doing nothing", but donating money is not a whole lot different. I see a whole lot of these non-profits and NGOs not taking even remotely progressive stances simply because they're trying to make money. The word from them is, "don't rock the boat" and "don't scare the movable middle". That's not the kind of message that I want my money going towards! I don't think that we can change minds in our community unless enough people start making visible demands, and speaking their minds, not hiding behind politicians who will never give us rights without pressure, regardless of party affiliation.
Sure, I can donate money, but I'd rather actually participate in the process and put my voice forward. Activism can do that in a way that donations cannot, and I think that this is one of the fundamental differences between non-profit organizations and a grassroots organization like Queer Ally Coalition, which seeks to give people that voice, not just put people to work for the highest bidder.
Solidarity is not synonymous with charity!
It seems that you are ready to spit fire over people that are "doing nothing", but donating money is not a whole lot different. I see a whole lot of these non-profits and NGOs not taking even remotely progressive stances simply because they're trying to make money. The word from them is, "don't rock the boat" and "don't scare the movable middle". That's not the kind of message that I want my money going towards! I don't think that we can change minds in our community unless enough people start making visible demands, and speaking their minds, not hiding behind politicians who will never give us rights without pressure, regardless of party affiliation.
Sure, I can donate money, but I'd rather actually participate in the process and put my voice forward. Activism can do that in a way that donations cannot, and I think that this is one of the fundamental differences between non-profit organizations and a grassroots organization like Queer Ally Coalition, which seeks to give people that voice, not just put people to work for the highest bidder.
Solidarity is not synonymous with charity!
92
All of the negative comments from those of you haters are not helping the cause anymore than the fools trying to shut any out chance of change, who cares who anyone else wants to marry? People need to remember love is blind. I don't care, I think it really is time to just live and let live.
93
"live and let live", she says, as if all people were living and able to live equally right now. we need to quiet confusing personal choices and political rights. I can choose NOT to marry only if I have the RIGHT to marry to begin with. Forget all the emotional and historical baggage that comes with marriage for a moment. The entire point is that right here and right now, marriage provides very specific material benefits to people and having those rights makes their lives better. The right to be there when your partner of 40 years dies can not be put off another second. The right to be a part of your children's lives when you separate from your partner is a right that can't be put off. The right to decide whether your partner gets appropriate medical treatment in case of an accident can't be put off. We demand marriage equality NOW at the same time as we demand single-payer health care, unemployment benefits for all the unemployed, extending FMLA to queer families and making it PAID, and more. Be creative, queens. Aim high. You know what happens to people to ask for little? THEY GET EVEN LESS.
94
At the San Diego protest, people from the ISO, the Unitarian Church, Si Se Puede, Activist San Diego, United Church of Christ, The San Diego & Imperial Counties Labor Council, Unite Here Local 30, SDLesbianTimes.com, San Diego Democratic Club, St Paul's Cathedral, the Stonewall Young Democrats, San Diego Pride, SDSU Pride Resouce Office, Pride at Work, the ACLU, the Courage Campaign, San Diego Equality Campaign, and SD Alliance for Marriage Equality, were ALL THERE (and many, many more) to show their support for our cause. Nobody should be turned away from our team--that's not a way to grow the movement or show appreciation for our supporters. To those of you being negative about the 100-person turnout: stop the whining and say "thanks for the Love" to all of these supportive groups who took the time to march and show their suppot for our cause (none of them, is getting paid to be there).
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